If you're dealing with an app that requires a lot of memory swapping a la photoshop then the Octo isn't a huge update. If you're doing a lot of encoding or rendering then the Octo shows a marked improvement in speed.
The problem right now is two fold.
1. Apple doesn't have enough intelligence in their threading so that we have core affinity in Tiger. Threads will move to different procs when they should be be locked to a single proc/cache. Leopard will improve this
2. Bensley, the chipset of current Mac Pro, has a snoop filter that only tracks two procs and the shared cache. When you move to a Quad Core system Bensely if inefficient in determining what goes where" beyond two procs. Stoakley/Seaburg and Penryn will fix this because Seaburg the controller will know "what goes where" for 4 procs with an improved snoop filter.
If I needed power right now and I wasn't running heavy CPU bound stuff I'd qo Quad and skip the Penryn/SS architecture and wait for Nehalem to hit in late 2008 early 2009 before upgrading.
As always, thanks for your input. I'll still wait until NAB to buy just incase Apple throws in some new GPU hardware.
Doesn't it seem odd to you that Apple would release the eight-processor Mac Pro if they knew full well that the issues with the snoop filter were there? Is there a way they can compensate for this on the software side without a significant hit? Perhaps the ship with a special version if Tiger to address this issue, or is this something they'll simply wait until Leopard to address? That said, what's your guess as to the increase in processing power I'd achieve after installing Leopard when it comes out?
If you're dealing with an app that requires a lot of memory swapping a la photoshop then the Octo isn't a huge update. If you're doing a lot of encoding or rendering then the Octo shows a marked improvement in speed.
The problem right now is two fold.
1. Apple doesn't have enough intelligence in their threading so that we have core affinity in Tiger. Threads will move to different procs when they should be be locked to a single proc/cache. Leopard will improve this
2. Bensley, the chipset of current Mac Pro, has a snoop filter that only tracks two procs and the shared cache. When you move to a Quad Core system Bensely if inefficient in determining what goes where" beyond two procs. Stoakley/Seaburg and Penryn will fix this because Seaburg the controller will know "what goes where" for 4 procs with an improved snoop filter.
If I needed power right now and I wasn't running heavy CPU bound stuff I'd qo Quad and skip the Penryn/SS architecture and wait for Nehalem to hit in late 2008 early 2009 before upgrading.
Man your making me think that if I buy a new Octo Mac Pro it's a bad investment.
As always, thanks for your input. I'll still wait until NAB to buy just incase Apple throws in some new GPU hardware.
Doesn't it seem odd to you that Apple would release the eight-processor Mac Pro if they knew full well that the issues with the snoop filter were there? Is there a way they can compensate for this on the software side without a significant hit? Perhaps the ship with a special version if Tiger to address this issue, or is this something they'll simply wait until Leopard to address? That said, what's your guess as to the increase in processing power I'd achieve after installing Leopard when it comes out?
Thanks in advance for your input.
Leopard certainly has the features to improve multi-threading right away. Apple's made it pretty easy to apply as a developer you just need to decide what parts of your code need priority and basically set a few flags.
It's tough to make this decision. I think Octo cores is going to last a person a while before they need to replace things but they'll just have to wait a bit for developers to catch up. If I knew I didn't want to screw around with replacing my system for some years I'd have little reservation about buying an Octo core. Penryn/Stoakley-Seaburg is nice but it's not going to make a huge difference IMO. Leopard will probably make the most identifiable difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker
Man your making me think that if I buy a new Octo Mac Pro it's a bad investment.
Not you bud. You're a 3D guru and more cores kicks ass for rendering and stuff like video encoding.
Another piece of new hardware I'm waiting for is an LED LCD from Apple. I figure they are coming out if they dropped the price of the others trying to clear the shelves.
I think it's a good step in the right direction. Just a few more days until NAB. Anybody know who'll be the representative from Apple there? Uncle Steve?
I'm hoping hmurchison can shed some light on this 8-core thing. From what he said, it sounds like the 8-core isn't much of a step up, though the link in a post I made above did show some good stats. Might we be making a mountain out of a mole-hill?
The LED stuff should be cool. I hope Apple and Samsung can bring them to the market affordably.
Hey Brian what are you going to be running on your Mac?
Shooting High Definition Video. Shot some footage of the Arboretum a couple of days ago when we had that nice day. Working with FCP Express on my MBP is rather slow so I'll be using my Mac Pro primarily for Video and Photography (Aperture).
I know I'll see an increase just going from laptop to desktop, but one always wonders if they are making the best choice with a new processor.
Gee, I have an overwhelming reluctance to buy an Octo now too. I wanted the system to last quite a few years before updating. It seems like I should just buy something cheaper to get by until after penryn.
Ahhh... the never ending cycle that is technology!!
Gee, I have an overwhelming reluctance to buy an Octo now too. I wanted the system to last quite a few years before updating. It seems like I should just buy something cheaper to get by until after penryn.
Ahhh... the never ending cycle that is technology!!
That's what I'm starting to think. Maybe I can get by.
Shooting High Definition Video. Shot some footage of the Arboretum a couple of days ago when we had that nice day. Working with FCP Express on my MBP is rather slow so I'll be using my Mac Pro primarily for Video and Photography (Aperture).
I know I'll see an increase just going from laptop to desktop, but one always wonders if they are making the best choice with a new processor.
I think it all boils down to when you see your next upgrade. If you want to hold out as long as possible the Octo likely is the best bet. If you want a good balance and know you might want a new computer in a few years then a Quad might be the answer. Either way moving up from a laptop is going to be a breath of fresh air.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eros
Gee, I have an overwhelming reluctance to buy an Octo now too. I wanted the system to last quite a few years before updating. It seems like I should just buy something cheaper to get by until after penryn.
Ahhh... the never ending cycle that is technology!!
No doubt. For longevity though it is a good rule to buy the most performance you can for your money. So even if you wait 6 months for Penryn you'll want to go big if you want years to pass before the next major upgrade.
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker
That's what I'm starting to think. Maybe I can get by.
Easy for you guys ..I got a Mac mini so I knew I was at the low end from the start. Oh well...my next computer will be a laptop and then a faster more full featured desktop.
I think it all boils down to when you see your next upgrade. If you want to hold out as long as possible the Octo likely is the best bet. If you want a good balance and know you might want a new computer in a few years then a Quad might be the answer. Either way moving up from a laptop is going to be a breath of fresh air.
No doubt. For longevity though it is a good rule to buy the most performance you can for your money. So even if you wait 6 months for Penryn you'll want to go big if you want years to pass before the next major upgrade.
Easy for you guys ..I got a Mac mini so I knew I was at the low end from the start. Oh well...my next computer will be a laptop and then a faster more full featured desktop.
Thanks a lot for that. I think I'll go with the Octo, after NAB of course. I'm hoping the new LED screens will be introduced there with new graphics cards to push them. I'll be dropping 12GB of RAm in the Octo from OWC and I saw on their site that they even have a rebate program for the Apple RAM you have. Kinda cool. I figure that an Octo with the best graphics card they have available and 12GB of RAM, not to mention dropping two 750GB HD's in will give me some much needed elbow room. I'll probably get a third drive just for Time Machine so I know I have a relatively decent back up. From what I remember, they allow you to set up how much "time" you choose to back up. I figure a 400GB HD will back up a month. I suppose time will tell - pun intended.
I didn't realize that you had a Mini. Upgrading to a laptop will be a great thing for you I sure. My hope is that they'll have user swappable HD's in the new MBP's and Blu-Ray RW drives. If we're gonna have screens that will be able to play HD content, we ought to have the ability to actually watch said content. They can't sit on the sidelines forever.
if it was correct to assume that hardware updates were being held back because of leopard, i wonder if now that leopard is definitely delayed until near the end of the year we might see the hardware coming sooner?
Only three weeks to go until Intel releases the Santa Rosa (Centrino Pro) chip. Please, Apple, please, *don't* release any updates to the Mac Mini until that chip is available!
.... .... ..... Easy for you guys ..I got a Mac mini so I knew I was at the low end from the start. Oh well...my next computer will be a laptop and then a faster more full featured desktop.
I'm starting to think about a MBP Laptop as well. Maybe a Laptop now, or when they are upgraded, and a Mac pro next time around. That's if they actually upgrade the system in the Mac Pro next time.
Definitely holding off purchases until next updates, some purchases maybe even beyond that (buy when I need or when the update is really worth the upgrade):
Mac Pro
- Wishing for more real-life bandwidth for multi-cores
- Hopefully a new enclosure (more silent), although not crucial
Macbook Pro
- Deep sleep states cpus, led backlighting = more battery run time (current offering is quite abysmal in this regard, imho)
As for AppleTv, I've decided to take a pass up until at least update v3. The current offering is not a true hd offering (5Mbps bandwidth limited, no 1080p support, not beefy enough).
Yes, I'm looking to buy four new Macs (two for work, two for home).
Definitely holding off purchases until next updates, some purchases maybe even beyond that (buy when I need or when the update is really worth the upgrade):
Mac Pro
- Wishing for more real-life bandwidth for multi-cores
- Hopefully a new enclosure (more silent), although not crucial
..snip...
From what I've read from various posters, Mac Pro is very quiet unless you opt for a higher end graphics card?
I've heard several Mac Pros and it's not anywhere near SPC level quiet. I hope Apple could make it even better (the new chips in the pipeline would theoretically allow that, not to mention advanced in PSU efficiency and more streamlined case design).
Mac Mini GPU may support 1080p in hw, but what is missing is support and that's exactly what I want. BTW, have you tried Mac Mini with XP (incl. hw decode support) 1080/60P hight bitrate MPEG-2 or high complexity MPEG-4 H.264? It chokes. It needs to be beefier. It's not cut for HDTV .ts playback device as it currently stands. maybe the next generation is.
I've heard several Mac Pros and it's not anywhere near SPC level quiet. I hope Apple could make it even better (the new chips in the pipeline would theoretically allow that, not to mention advanced in PSU efficiency and more streamlined case design).
Mac Mini GPU may support 1080p in hw, but what is missing is support and that's exactly what I want. BTW, have you tried Mac Mini with XP (incl. hw decode support) 1080/60P hight bitrate MPEG-2 or high complexity MPEG-4 H.264? It chokes. It needs to be beefier. It's not cut for HDTV .ts playback device as it currently stands. maybe the next generation is.
I have the new Octo Mac Pro and its fans are loud. But I'm willing to sacrifice silence for power.
I'd love to see Quicktime auto deinterlace footage filmed with 1080i camcorders. Even when exporting with Quicktime, I can see that Quicktime did not deinterlace the video even when it is selected.
I decided yesterday to finally pull the trigger and order the new MBP i have been wanting. I decided to buy now because
a) I need a laptop (sooner than later)
b) the new ones will probably not be released until first part of June as a minimum.
c) After my fiasco with the rev A iMac G5, i don't want to buy new technology until the bugs have been worked out pretty well (maybe 6 months or so).
d) The current iteration of MBP has had plenty of time to work out the bugs.
e) I can sell this one on ebay in about a year when the newer ones have matured.
Anyway, that was my thinking on this. Hope this helps some of of you who have been on the fence for awhile.
PS: Now that I have put in my order, I can assure you that apple will release the new version within 30 days. GUARANTEED! So those of you waiting, can thank me later.
Comments
If you're dealing with an app that requires a lot of memory swapping a la photoshop then the Octo isn't a huge update. If you're doing a lot of encoding or rendering then the Octo shows a marked improvement in speed.
The problem right now is two fold.
1. Apple doesn't have enough intelligence in their threading so that we have core affinity in Tiger. Threads will move to different procs when they should be be locked to a single proc/cache. Leopard will improve this
2. Bensley, the chipset of current Mac Pro, has a snoop filter that only tracks two procs and the shared cache. When you move to a Quad Core system Bensely if inefficient in determining what goes where" beyond two procs. Stoakley/Seaburg and Penryn will fix this because Seaburg the controller will know "what goes where" for 4 procs with an improved snoop filter.
If I needed power right now and I wasn't running heavy CPU bound stuff I'd qo Quad and skip the Penryn/SS architecture and wait for Nehalem to hit in late 2008 early 2009 before upgrading.
As always, thanks for your input. I'll still wait until NAB to buy just incase Apple throws in some new GPU hardware.
Doesn't it seem odd to you that Apple would release the eight-processor Mac Pro if they knew full well that the issues with the snoop filter were there? Is there a way they can compensate for this on the software side without a significant hit? Perhaps the ship with a special version if Tiger to address this issue, or is this something they'll simply wait until Leopard to address? That said, what's your guess as to the increase in processing power I'd achieve after installing Leopard when it comes out?
Thanks in advance for your input.
If you're dealing with an app that requires a lot of memory swapping a la photoshop then the Octo isn't a huge update. If you're doing a lot of encoding or rendering then the Octo shows a marked improvement in speed.
The problem right now is two fold.
1. Apple doesn't have enough intelligence in their threading so that we have core affinity in Tiger. Threads will move to different procs when they should be be locked to a single proc/cache. Leopard will improve this
2. Bensley, the chipset of current Mac Pro, has a snoop filter that only tracks two procs and the shared cache. When you move to a Quad Core system Bensely if inefficient in determining what goes where" beyond two procs. Stoakley/Seaburg and Penryn will fix this because Seaburg the controller will know "what goes where" for 4 procs with an improved snoop filter.
If I needed power right now and I wasn't running heavy CPU bound stuff I'd qo Quad and skip the Penryn/SS architecture and wait for Nehalem to hit in late 2008 early 2009 before upgrading.
Man your making me think that if I buy a new Octo Mac Pro it's a bad investment.
As always, thanks for your input. I'll still wait until NAB to buy just incase Apple throws in some new GPU hardware.
Doesn't it seem odd to you that Apple would release the eight-processor Mac Pro if they knew full well that the issues with the snoop filter were there? Is there a way they can compensate for this on the software side without a significant hit? Perhaps the ship with a special version if Tiger to address this issue, or is this something they'll simply wait until Leopard to address? That said, what's your guess as to the increase in processing power I'd achieve after installing Leopard when it comes out?
Thanks in advance for your input.
Leopard certainly has the features to improve multi-threading right away. Apple's made it pretty easy to apply as a developer you just need to decide what parts of your code need priority and basically set a few flags.
It's tough to make this decision. I think Octo cores is going to last a person a while before they need to replace things but they'll just have to wait a bit for developers to catch up. If I knew I didn't want to screw around with replacing my system for some years I'd have little reservation about buying an Octo core. Penryn/Stoakley-Seaburg is nice but it's not going to make a huge difference IMO. Leopard will probably make the most identifiable difference.
Man your making me think that if I buy a new Octo Mac Pro it's a bad investment.
Not you bud. You're a 3D guru and more cores kicks ass for rendering and stuff like video encoding.
Take a look at Samsung's offering
I think it's a good step in the right direction. Just a few more days until NAB. Anybody know who'll be the representative from Apple there? Uncle Steve?
I'm hoping hmurchison can shed some light on this 8-core thing. From what he said, it sounds like the 8-core isn't much of a step up, though the link in a post I made above did show some good stats. Might we be making a mountain out of a mole-hill?
Hey Brian what are you going to be running on your Mac?
The LED stuff should be cool. I hope Apple and Samsung can bring them to the market affordably.
Hey Brian what are you going to be running on your Mac?
Shooting High Definition Video. Shot some footage of the Arboretum a couple of days ago when we had that nice day. Working with FCP Express on my MBP is rather slow so I'll be using my Mac Pro primarily for Video and Photography (Aperture).
I know I'll see an increase just going from laptop to desktop, but one always wonders if they are making the best choice with a new processor.
Ahhh... the never ending cycle that is technology!!
Gee, I have an overwhelming reluctance to buy an Octo now too. I wanted the system to last quite a few years before updating. It seems like I should just buy something cheaper to get by until after penryn.
Ahhh... the never ending cycle that is technology!!
That's what I'm starting to think. Maybe I can get by.
Shooting High Definition Video. Shot some footage of the Arboretum a couple of days ago when we had that nice day. Working with FCP Express on my MBP is rather slow so I'll be using my Mac Pro primarily for Video and Photography (Aperture).
I know I'll see an increase just going from laptop to desktop, but one always wonders if they are making the best choice with a new processor.
I think it all boils down to when you see your next upgrade. If you want to hold out as long as possible the Octo likely is the best bet. If you want a good balance and know you might want a new computer in a few years then a Quad might be the answer. Either way moving up from a laptop is going to be a breath of fresh air.
Gee, I have an overwhelming reluctance to buy an Octo now too. I wanted the system to last quite a few years before updating. It seems like I should just buy something cheaper to get by until after penryn.
Ahhh... the never ending cycle that is technology!!
No doubt. For longevity though it is a good rule to buy the most performance you can for your money. So even if you wait 6 months for Penryn you'll want to go big if you want years to pass before the next major upgrade.
That's what I'm starting to think. Maybe I can get by.
Easy for you guys ..I got a Mac mini so I knew I was at the low end from the start. Oh well...my next computer will be a laptop and then a faster more full featured desktop.
I think it all boils down to when you see your next upgrade. If you want to hold out as long as possible the Octo likely is the best bet. If you want a good balance and know you might want a new computer in a few years then a Quad might be the answer. Either way moving up from a laptop is going to be a breath of fresh air.
No doubt. For longevity though it is a good rule to buy the most performance you can for your money. So even if you wait 6 months for Penryn you'll want to go big if you want years to pass before the next major upgrade.
Easy for you guys ..I got a Mac mini so I knew I was at the low end from the start. Oh well...my next computer will be a laptop and then a faster more full featured desktop.
Thanks a lot for that. I think I'll go with the Octo, after NAB of course. I'm hoping the new LED screens will be introduced there with new graphics cards to push them. I'll be dropping 12GB of RAm in the Octo from OWC and I saw on their site that they even have a rebate program for the Apple RAM you have. Kinda cool. I figure that an Octo with the best graphics card they have available and 12GB of RAM, not to mention dropping two 750GB HD's in will give me some much needed elbow room. I'll probably get a third drive just for Time Machine so I know I have a relatively decent back up. From what I remember, they allow you to set up how much "time" you choose to back up. I figure a 400GB HD will back up a month. I suppose time will tell - pun intended.
I didn't realize that you had a Mini. Upgrading to a laptop will be a great thing for you I sure. My hope is that they'll have user swappable HD's in the new MBP's and Blu-Ray RW drives. If we're gonna have screens that will be able to play HD content, we ought to have the ability to actually watch said content. They can't sit on the sidelines forever.
this would definitely be good for me!
And then put it in the Mac Mini, of course. :-)
http://www.crn.com/hardware/198800224
.... .... ..... Easy for you guys ..I got a Mac mini so I knew I was at the low end from the start. Oh well...my next computer will be a laptop and then a faster more full featured desktop.
I'm starting to think about a MBP Laptop as well. Maybe a Laptop now, or when they are upgraded, and a Mac pro next time around. That's if they actually upgrade the system in the Mac Pro next time.
Mac Pro
- Wishing for more real-life bandwidth for multi-cores
- Hopefully a new enclosure (more silent), although not crucial
Macbook Pro
- Deep sleep states cpus, led backlighting = more battery run time (current offering is quite abysmal in this regard, imho)
- Hopefuly more memory (up to 4 GB)
Mac Mini
- better integrated graphis (for 1080p gpu assisted decoding)
iMac 24"
- better display
- more memory (up to 4GB)
- better graphics
- improved cpu
As for AppleTv, I've decided to take a pass up until at least update v3. The current offering is not a true hd offering (5Mbps bandwidth limited, no 1080p support, not beefy enough).
Yes, I'm looking to buy four new Macs (two for work, two for home).
Mac Mini
- better integrated graphis (for 1080p gpu assisted decoding)
The Mac mini's GPU already supports two simultaneous 1080p decodes. Apple simply doesn't use it.
Definitely holding off purchases until next updates, some purchases maybe even beyond that (buy when I need or when the update is really worth the upgrade):
Mac Pro
- Wishing for more real-life bandwidth for multi-cores
- Hopefully a new enclosure (more silent), although not crucial
..snip...
From what I've read from various posters, Mac Pro is very quiet unless you opt for a higher end graphics card?
Mac Mini GPU may support 1080p in hw, but what is missing is support and that's exactly what I want. BTW, have you tried Mac Mini with XP (incl. hw decode support) 1080/60P hight bitrate MPEG-2 or high complexity MPEG-4 H.264? It chokes. It needs to be beefier. It's not cut for HDTV .ts playback device as it currently stands. maybe the next generation is.
I've heard several Mac Pros and it's not anywhere near SPC level quiet. I hope Apple could make it even better (the new chips in the pipeline would theoretically allow that, not to mention advanced in PSU efficiency and more streamlined case design).
Mac Mini GPU may support 1080p in hw, but what is missing is support and that's exactly what I want. BTW, have you tried Mac Mini with XP (incl. hw decode support) 1080/60P hight bitrate MPEG-2 or high complexity MPEG-4 H.264? It chokes. It needs to be beefier. It's not cut for HDTV .ts playback device as it currently stands. maybe the next generation is.
I have the new Octo Mac Pro and its fans are loud. But I'm willing to sacrifice silence for power.
I'd love to see Quicktime auto deinterlace footage filmed with 1080i camcorders. Even when exporting with Quicktime, I can see that Quicktime did not deinterlace the video even when it is selected.
a) I need a laptop (sooner than later)
b) the new ones will probably not be released until first part of June as a minimum.
c) After my fiasco with the rev A iMac G5, i don't want to buy new technology until the bugs have been worked out pretty well (maybe 6 months or so).
d) The current iteration of MBP has had plenty of time to work out the bugs.
e) I can sell this one on ebay in about a year when the newer ones have matured.
Anyway, that was my thinking on this. Hope this helps some of of you who have been on the fence for awhile.
PS: Now that I have put in my order, I can assure you that apple will release the new version within 30 days. GUARANTEED! So those of you waiting, can thank me later.