Im not going to hold my breath for a BTO option on the MacPro until Jan 09 at the earliest iLife 09 with BD burning, anyone?
And somehow unless by "slimline" Sony mean slimmer than current offerings, I cant see these going in the laptops,, even iMacs are gonna start to look doubtful.
but its all still "possible" isnt it?
at least those who claim to want to put a drive in their HTPC will have less of a barrier .. ahem.
Interesting to see what 3rd parties will do for the Mac user though.
i just don't think you can read properly and understand arguments, can you? the point was that bluray was supposed to do something for gaming, it hasn't translated into any "progression" at all. bluray in this generation of games is not needed like Sony claimed.
Sorry for commenting to an older post, but I thought it was a very interesting observation.
M$FT beat Sony to the punch big-time with the 360. They set the barometer on how much time, energy and money would go into a next-gen game. They set the price, and thereby set the development budget per game. Studios that make both PS3 and 360 games will never spend more time or money taking advantage of the 50GB of space when they can't sell their game for any more than the 360 version which is selling for 59.99. Its simple marketing.
So Sony can only expect to see a noticeable difference on those games that are exclusive to PS3, which of course can not be compared to a 360 version of the same game. And even if Sony did set the trend, how many would be ok with paying 89.99 (or more) for a game with 1080p video throughout, lossless TrueHD audio, and 'just ok' gameplay?
I think M$FT outplayed Sony in this round. But that doesnt mean that consumers are losers when it comes to gaming. I think XBOX has released incredible games, and PS3 is giving me my blu-ray fix, along with MSG4. I can't complain!
Sorry for commenting to an older post, but I thought it was a very interesting observation.
M$FT beat Sony to the punch big-time with the 360. They set the barometer on how much time, energy and money would go into a next-gen game. They set the price, and thereby set the development budget per game. Studios that make both PS3 and 360 games will never spend more time or money taking advantage of the 50GB of space when they can't sell their game for any more than the 360 version which is selling for 59.99. Its simple marketing.
So Sony can only expect to see a noticeable difference on those games that are exclusive to PS3, which of course can not be compared to a 360 version of the same game. And even if Sony did set the trend, how many would be ok with paying 89.99 (or more) for a game with 1080p video throughout, lossless TrueHD audio, and 'just ok' gameplay?
I think M$FT outplayed Sony in this round. But that doesnt mean that consumers are losers when it comes to gaming. I think XBOX has released incredible games, and PS3 is giving me my blu-ray fix, along with MSG4. I can't complain!
Your point makes no sense, games get bigger and better all the time. I remember $70 Nintendo and SNES games. Were those 9GB? Negative!
Sorry for commenting to an older post, but I thought it was a very interesting observation.
M$FT beat Sony to the punch big-time with the 360. They set the barometer on how much time, energy and money would go into a next-gen game. They set the price, and thereby set the development budget per game. Studios that make both PS3 and 360 games will never spend more time or money taking advantage of the 50GB of space when they can't sell their game for any more than the 360 version which is selling for 59.99. Its simple marketing.
So Sony can only expect to see a noticeable difference on those games that are exclusive to PS3, which of course can not be compared to a 360 version of the same game. And even if Sony did set the trend, how many would be ok with paying 89.99 (or more) for a game with 1080p video throughout, lossless TrueHD audio, and 'just ok' gameplay?
I think M$FT outplayed Sony in this round. But that doesnt mean that consumers are losers when it comes to gaming. I think XBOX has released incredible games, and PS3 is giving me my blu-ray fix, along with MSG4. I can't complain!
you're absolutely right.
yet, you make it sound like microsoft held sony's system back, or i guess the developers back from creating these huge games on the PS3. fact is, i don't think there are many people out there wanting to spend 89.99 or more on a game. could you imagine? people had squibbles about paying 59.99. this has been my point about bluray in here for a while, but of course it's ignored.
also, exclusive games on sony's system haven't faired well either. most "must have" titles have either been complete busts, or just decent enough to make a slight return. it's a known fact that it's more expensive and time consuming to develop for the PS3, and this is mainly do to that oh so fabulous Cell chip (another huge bust). so, "ok" gameplay isn't about bluray, it's about the developers getting around their ridiculous architecture because the 360 like you pointed out has some amazing exclusive titles.
Wow...this thread is STILL going? What are we talking about fellas?
Yeah. No shit. It appears there's been some heated discussions about uncompressed audio, the superiority of one console over the other, and downloads versus hard media.
Yeah. No shit. It appears there's been some heated discussions about uncompressed audio, the superiority of one console over the other, and downloads versus hard media.
Oroborous.
Although I have not been in this thread in a while you just opened up a point that I think about now and then. Whatever Sony was loosing on PS3 consoles they are making back in nickel, and dime downloadable content from the PS3 store. I probably have $200 worth of awesome PS3 downloads from that store. Some of the little games sony develops for $9.99 are totally addictive. And awesome at that. Personally I think that store is the killer app for that machine.
Although I have not been in this thread in a while you just opened up a point that I think about now and then. Whatever Sony was loosing on PS3 consoles they are making back in nickel, and dime downloadable content from the PS3 store. I probably have $200 worth of awesome PS3 downloads from that store. Some of the little games sony develops for $9.99 are totally addictive. And awesome at that. Personally I think that store is the killer app for that machine.
Your point makes no sense, games get bigger and better all the time. I remember $70 Nintendo and SNES games. Were those 9GB? Negative!
Does it really make no sense, or do you just disagree? Regardless, your response didn't address my point at all. My point was about development costs and maximizing the power of the PS3.
I personally would love it if a game with great gameplay and lossless/1080p audio/video was released. But it ain't gonna happen because Sony doesn't have the chops to make those games, and those who do have the skills (Take Two, Capcom, Bungie, EA, Ubisoft etc) will not do it because 1) they cant easily port it over to the 360 because of processing and size limits, 2) the development costs will be out of control, and 3) they know its not all about lossless audio and 1080p... its also about a creative storyline and engaging gameplay. They choose to spend their energy on those things instead. I agree with them 100%.
Does it really make no sense, or do you just disagree? Regardless, your response didn't address my point at all. My point was about development costs and maximizing the power of the PS3.
I personally would love it if a game with great gameplay and lossless/1080p audio/video was released. But it ain't gonna happen because Sony doesn't have the chops to make those games, and those who do have the skills (Take Two, Capcom, Bungie, EA, Ubisoft etc) will not do it because 1) they cant easily port it over to the 360 because of processing and size limits, 2) the development costs will be out of control, and 3) they know its not all about lossless audio and 1080p... its also about a creative storyline and engaging gameplay. They choose to spend their energy on those things instead. I agree with them 100%.
i agree with what you're saying about development costs but i think you need to catch up on your information regarding the PS3. the Cell is a b/tch to program for, and not only that but developers are having a hell of a time squeezing the same power out of the PS3 that they can easily attain with the 360. it has nothing to do with porting it over to the 360 because developers have stated it's easier to develop on the ps3 and then port to the 360 rather then the other way around, mainly due to the obnoxiousness of the Cell architecture.
it's pretty hard to make the argument at this point that developers and costs are the ones to blame for making piss poor games on the PS3 (or not taping into its untapped "power" of the ps3 hardware)
because you've had
-inferior cross platform games
-inferior exclusives
-top developers (like MGS4 head honcho) moaning about the complexities of the system
i've posted here many times saying if you want to do your own research go ahead. this is the age of the internet, right? it would take you two seconds go to look at exclusives for both platforms and come out with the conlcusion that the 360's offerings are far superior. also, a quick look would also discover that cross platform games (games coming for both systems) are for the most part far superior on the 360. oh, and i don't even know what you're talking about "over lit unrealistic look of the aging 360" like huh? gears of war came out almost 2 years ago with that grey realistic look (arguably the best looking game still this gen) lol.
yes, switching disks (2 seconds) once or twice over the span of the entire game vs 1-2 minute load times between every scene + a mandatory 4gig install? geeh, what to choose, what to choose i love the sony camp.
here's your quote darling
Quote:
When we first showed the game engine at Tokyo Game Show, the staff were really proud and happy. PS3 was a dream machine, y'know, and we were going to work on this and that - we had so many ideas. But when we actually started developing the game, we realized there were a lot of restrictions and so it turned out how you see it today. The original vision was to go ten steps further, the reality was just one step, which isn't to say we didn't progress.
"I remember saying three years ago that we wanted to create something revolutionary, but in reality we couldn't really do that because of the CPU. We're using the Cell engine to its limit, actually. Please don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing the PS3 machine, it's just that we weren't really aware of what the full-spec PS3 offered - we were creating something we couldn't entirely see."
after this came out, and after he probably got scorned by his studio heads and some sony execs he softened his position. yet, you can clearly see he has been wishy washy ever since- first saying this was his last MGS,then saying it wasn't, then saying it was coming to the 360, then saying it wasn't, then saying they needed to sell 1 million units on day 1 to break even, then saying no.
eh, i'm sure MGS turned out good enough for the fans.
basically "darling" he has done that same "My vision was for waaay more, but this is the best i could manage with the hardware" song and dance since he started the whole MGS thing 20 years ago.
there is rather a lot of stuff that seems to get misquoted and lost in translation from his native language, via a "journalist" and then via the editor, no doubt looking for something quotable, and finally the end reader, but now there is another layer, the twisting of his intent via blogs and blogers and people who reply to what the blogger said.
that all a pretty far stretch.
he is a guy that seems to be not too far removed from our very own Steve Jobs a bit of a perfectionist.
I'm sure steve thinks the iPhone is "the best ever" just as I'm sure he is in talks with whomever saying "how the heck do we make this twice as good?"
well if its the best ever then why aim higher?
thats been most peoples point about the capacity that BD gives (50GB) over DVD (9GB) one can aim higher, and improve.
your mantra seems to be that of microsoft, one of "good enough" you seem to be lacking in the vision that the rest of us, while we might not be able to see yet, actually believe to be a good idea to have potential access to.
oh yeah, and I remember reading him say that MGS2 (on PS1) was the last MGS game, he said it was the best he had done and could do no better, but then the PS2 was on the scene and MGS3 was also the "last" MGS game he was going to do, lo and behold MGS4 is the last game as well.
but if you actually do some UNBIASED searching you can find him quoted, as he was quoted after MGS3, saying (and i paraphrase here) "its my last game with snake, but in the future theres nothing to stop my staff from producing a MGS game"
Which then turned, a few days later, to "IF I do another [MGS] game I will take more of a back seat"
but as you say, its not up to me to provide you with links, but if you want to keep your blinkered view, maybe you should keep it to yourself??
Elixir, you keep saying the same stuff over and over. It's not making anyone think otherwise, yet you keep saying the same stuff. You're not accomplishing anything, just let it go.
Comments
bare drive to be $100 by years end
$150 for slim line versions.
Im not going to hold my breath for a BTO option on the MacPro until Jan 09 at the earliest iLife 09 with BD burning, anyone?
And somehow unless by "slimline" Sony mean slimmer than current offerings, I cant see these going in the laptops,, even iMacs are gonna start to look doubtful.
but its all still "possible" isnt it?
at least those who claim to want to put a drive in their HTPC will have less of a barrier .. ahem.
Interesting to see what 3rd parties will do for the Mac user though.
i just don't think you can read properly and understand arguments, can you? the point was that bluray was supposed to do something for gaming, it hasn't translated into any "progression" at all. bluray in this generation of games is not needed like Sony claimed.
Sorry for commenting to an older post, but I thought it was a very interesting observation.
M$FT beat Sony to the punch big-time with the 360. They set the barometer on how much time, energy and money would go into a next-gen game. They set the price, and thereby set the development budget per game. Studios that make both PS3 and 360 games will never spend more time or money taking advantage of the 50GB of space when they can't sell their game for any more than the 360 version which is selling for 59.99. Its simple marketing.
So Sony can only expect to see a noticeable difference on those games that are exclusive to PS3, which of course can not be compared to a 360 version of the same game. And even if Sony did set the trend, how many would be ok with paying 89.99 (or more) for a game with 1080p video throughout, lossless TrueHD audio, and 'just ok' gameplay?
I think M$FT outplayed Sony in this round. But that doesnt mean that consumers are losers when it comes to gaming. I think XBOX has released incredible games, and PS3 is giving me my blu-ray fix, along with MSG4. I can't complain!
Sorry for commenting to an older post, but I thought it was a very interesting observation.
M$FT beat Sony to the punch big-time with the 360. They set the barometer on how much time, energy and money would go into a next-gen game. They set the price, and thereby set the development budget per game. Studios that make both PS3 and 360 games will never spend more time or money taking advantage of the 50GB of space when they can't sell their game for any more than the 360 version which is selling for 59.99. Its simple marketing.
So Sony can only expect to see a noticeable difference on those games that are exclusive to PS3, which of course can not be compared to a 360 version of the same game. And even if Sony did set the trend, how many would be ok with paying 89.99 (or more) for a game with 1080p video throughout, lossless TrueHD audio, and 'just ok' gameplay?
I think M$FT outplayed Sony in this round. But that doesnt mean that consumers are losers when it comes to gaming. I think XBOX has released incredible games, and PS3 is giving me my blu-ray fix, along with MSG4. I can't complain!
Your point makes no sense, games get bigger and better all the time. I remember $70 Nintendo and SNES games. Were those 9GB? Negative!
Sorry for commenting to an older post, but I thought it was a very interesting observation.
M$FT beat Sony to the punch big-time with the 360. They set the barometer on how much time, energy and money would go into a next-gen game. They set the price, and thereby set the development budget per game. Studios that make both PS3 and 360 games will never spend more time or money taking advantage of the 50GB of space when they can't sell their game for any more than the 360 version which is selling for 59.99. Its simple marketing.
So Sony can only expect to see a noticeable difference on those games that are exclusive to PS3, which of course can not be compared to a 360 version of the same game. And even if Sony did set the trend, how many would be ok with paying 89.99 (or more) for a game with 1080p video throughout, lossless TrueHD audio, and 'just ok' gameplay?
I think M$FT outplayed Sony in this round. But that doesnt mean that consumers are losers when it comes to gaming. I think XBOX has released incredible games, and PS3 is giving me my blu-ray fix, along with MSG4. I can't complain!
you're absolutely right.
yet, you make it sound like microsoft held sony's system back, or i guess the developers back from creating these huge games on the PS3. fact is, i don't think there are many people out there wanting to spend 89.99 or more on a game. could you imagine? people had squibbles about paying 59.99. this has been my point about bluray in here for a while, but of course it's ignored.
also, exclusive games on sony's system haven't faired well either. most "must have" titles have either been complete busts, or just decent enough to make a slight return. it's a known fact that it's more expensive and time consuming to develop for the PS3, and this is mainly do to that oh so fabulous Cell chip (another huge bust). so, "ok" gameplay isn't about bluray, it's about the developers getting around their ridiculous architecture because the 360 like you pointed out has some amazing exclusive titles.
Wow...this thread is STILL going? What are we talking about fellas?
Yeah. No shit. It appears there's been some heated discussions about uncompressed audio, the superiority of one console over the other, and downloads versus hard media.
Oroborous.
you're absolutely right.
either you think he's absolutely right or you don't. Why argue with him when you "absolutely agree"?
what was that you were saying about pertinent argument?
Yeah. No shit. It appears there's been some heated discussions about uncompressed audio, the superiority of one console over the other, and downloads versus hard media.
Oroborous.
Although I have not been in this thread in a while you just opened up a point that I think about now and then. Whatever Sony was loosing on PS3 consoles they are making back in nickel, and dime downloadable content from the PS3 store. I probably have $200 worth of awesome PS3 downloads from that store. Some of the little games sony develops for $9.99 are totally addictive. And awesome at that. Personally I think that store is the killer app for that machine.
Although I have not been in this thread in a while you just opened up a point that I think about now and then. Whatever Sony was loosing on PS3 consoles they are making back in nickel, and dime downloadable content from the PS3 store. I probably have $200 worth of awesome PS3 downloads from that store. Some of the little games sony develops for $9.99 are totally addictive. And awesome at that. Personally I think that store is the killer app for that machine.
ah, you know, i'm not even gonna bother.
carry on.
ah, you know, i'm not even gonna bother.
carry on.
Bravo!
ah, you know, i'm not even gonna bother.
carry on.
I absolutely agree!
I absolutely agree!
you know, it's just hard. it's like someone telling you guys "man, the dock in vista is soo cool, i can't believe they have that"
you just sit back and think to yourself "woah, are you serious.." and then probably jump in right?
well, i'm holding myself back for you guys
"It's over"
"You're absolutely right"
"I promise in the event of BD players dropping to xxx price I WILL buy"
"Got it!"
anyone else remember any classic quotes from these threads?
thought a mid season re-cap might be nice, while we wait for the announcement that the iPhone will include a BD burner.
Your point makes no sense, games get bigger and better all the time. I remember $70 Nintendo and SNES games. Were those 9GB? Negative!
Does it really make no sense, or do you just disagree? Regardless, your response didn't address my point at all. My point was about development costs and maximizing the power of the PS3.
I personally would love it if a game with great gameplay and lossless/1080p audio/video was released. But it ain't gonna happen because Sony doesn't have the chops to make those games, and those who do have the skills (Take Two, Capcom, Bungie, EA, Ubisoft etc) will not do it because 1) they cant easily port it over to the 360 because of processing and size limits, 2) the development costs will be out of control, and 3) they know its not all about lossless audio and 1080p... its also about a creative storyline and engaging gameplay. They choose to spend their energy on those things instead. I agree with them 100%.
Does it really make no sense, or do you just disagree? Regardless, your response didn't address my point at all. My point was about development costs and maximizing the power of the PS3.
I personally would love it if a game with great gameplay and lossless/1080p audio/video was released. But it ain't gonna happen because Sony doesn't have the chops to make those games, and those who do have the skills (Take Two, Capcom, Bungie, EA, Ubisoft etc) will not do it because 1) they cant easily port it over to the 360 because of processing and size limits, 2) the development costs will be out of control, and 3) they know its not all about lossless audio and 1080p... its also about a creative storyline and engaging gameplay. They choose to spend their energy on those things instead. I agree with them 100%.
i agree with what you're saying about development costs but i think you need to catch up on your information regarding the PS3. the Cell is a b/tch to program for, and not only that but developers are having a hell of a time squeezing the same power out of the PS3 that they can easily attain with the 360. it has nothing to do with porting it over to the 360 because developers have stated it's easier to develop on the ps3 and then port to the 360 rather then the other way around, mainly due to the obnoxiousness of the Cell architecture.
it's pretty hard to make the argument at this point that developers and costs are the ones to blame for making piss poor games on the PS3 (or not taping into its untapped "power" of the ps3 hardware)
because you've had
-inferior cross platform games
-inferior exclusives
-top developers (like MGS4 head honcho) moaning about the complexities of the system
because you've had
-inferior cross platform games
really? as opposed to what? the over lit unrealistic looking crap on the aging 360?
-inferior exclusives
inferior to what? if they are exclusive what are you comparing them to ?
-top developers (like MGS4 head honcho) moaning about the complexities of the system
you can proved quotes I assume? because I'm sure its not hard to dig up quote of him saying the PS3 is great.
http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/10/m...g-at-xbox-360/
"get a grip" mmm?
really? as opposed to what? the over lit unrealistic looking crap on the aging 360?
inferior to what? if they are exclusive what are you comparing them to ?
you can proved quotes I assume? because I'm sure its not hard to dig up quote of him saying the PS3 is great.
http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/10/m...g-at-xbox-360/
"get a grip" mmm?
i've posted here many times saying if you want to do your own research go ahead. this is the age of the internet, right? it would take you two seconds go to look at exclusives for both platforms and come out with the conlcusion that the 360's offerings are far superior. also, a quick look would also discover that cross platform games (games coming for both systems) are for the most part far superior on the 360. oh, and i don't even know what you're talking about "over lit unrealistic look of the aging 360" like huh? gears of war came out almost 2 years ago with that grey realistic look (arguably the best looking game still this gen) lol.
yes, switching disks (2 seconds) once or twice over the span of the entire game vs 1-2 minute load times between every scene + a mandatory 4gig install? geeh, what to choose, what to choose
here's your quote darling
When we first showed the game engine at Tokyo Game Show, the staff were really proud and happy. PS3 was a dream machine, y'know, and we were going to work on this and that - we had so many ideas. But when we actually started developing the game, we realized there were a lot of restrictions and so it turned out how you see it today. The original vision was to go ten steps further, the reality was just one step, which isn't to say we didn't progress.
"I remember saying three years ago that we wanted to create something revolutionary, but in reality we couldn't really do that because of the CPU. We're using the Cell engine to its limit, actually. Please don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing the PS3 machine, it's just that we weren't really aware of what the full-spec PS3 offered - we were creating something we couldn't entirely see."
after this came out, and after he probably got scorned by his studio heads and some sony execs he softened his position. yet, you can clearly see he has been wishy washy ever since- first saying this was his last MGS,then saying it wasn't, then saying it was coming to the 360, then saying it wasn't, then saying they needed to sell 1 million units on day 1 to break even, then saying no.
eh, i'm sure MGS turned out good enough for the fans.
there is rather a lot of stuff that seems to get misquoted and lost in translation from his native language, via a "journalist" and then via the editor, no doubt looking for something quotable, and finally the end reader, but now there is another layer, the twisting of his intent via blogs and blogers and people who reply to what the blogger said.
that all a pretty far stretch.
he is a guy that seems to be not too far removed from our very own Steve Jobs a bit of a perfectionist.
I'm sure steve thinks the iPhone is "the best ever" just as I'm sure he is in talks with whomever saying "how the heck do we make this twice as good?"
well if its the best ever then why aim higher?
thats been most peoples point about the capacity that BD gives (50GB) over DVD (9GB) one can aim higher, and improve.
your mantra seems to be that of microsoft, one of "good enough" you seem to be lacking in the vision that the rest of us, while we might not be able to see yet, actually believe to be a good idea to have potential access to.
oh yeah, and I remember reading him say that MGS2 (on PS1) was the last MGS game, he said it was the best he had done and could do no better, but then the PS2 was on the scene and MGS3 was also the "last" MGS game he was going to do, lo and behold MGS4 is the last game as well.
but if you actually do some UNBIASED searching you can find him quoted, as he was quoted after MGS3, saying (and i paraphrase here) "its my last game with snake, but in the future theres nothing to stop my staff from producing a MGS game"
Which then turned, a few days later, to "IF I do another [MGS] game I will take more of a back seat"
but as you say, its not up to me to provide you with links, but if you want to keep your blinkered view, maybe you should keep it to yourself??
It's the same comment over and over.
Elixir, you keep saying the same stuff over and over. It's not making anyone think otherwise, yet you keep saying the same stuff. You're not accomplishing anything, just let it go.