While I haven't downloaded an iTunes movie yet, the TV Shows have no such warning. I would be willing to bet movies don't either.
I'd argue the opposite. Cost is cheap! You can buy a 500 GB drive for $95/$120 (internal/external). People have done the math in other threads, but that should be able to hold 25+ 1080p movies. Slap four in a machine, and you have the storage capacity for 100+ movies at the cost of a Blu-Ray player.
You wont HAVE to backup, if the place you download from allows for new downloads of purchased material.
You want to bring your copy, sync it to the internal drive of the AppleTV and carry that with you. Still portable, and you don't have to worry if the person you are going to has a Blu-Ray or HD DVD player (or none for that matter). The AppleTV is extremely light, easy to carry, not much bigger than 2 DVD cases.
DVD data can be corrupted, its called a scratched disk. And in all my years of owning and operating a computer, I've never just had data "go bad" while sitting on a drive.
Why wouldn't special features be possible on a digital download?
On-demand could support whatever you want, there is no limit unlike HD DVD and Blu-Ray. Why do you feel On-demand is limited to 720p?
This has been discussed in other threads before. The time to download a full 1080p movie is not long (6 hours I think it was calculated at todays speeds). Sure, a trip to blockbuster is faster, but people wait a day or two for movies from Netflix. How would a 6 hour download differ?
I'm too lazy to split this quote up, so I'm just going to respond to a few things that come to mind at first. I'll probably miss a few items.
Do TV shows have that warning when they are broadcast on TV? No. Especially because unlike movie, you ARE allowed to record TV shows for personal use such as with VHS or DVR.
The point about Netflix is that you don't have to browse or select movies. You keep a list if movie you want, even if they are not out yet, and Netflix sends it to you as soon as it's available. When you return it, it sends you the next movie on your list. You are never without a movie with Netflix.
1080p is unrealistic right now because of speeds and bandwidth. People want instant gratification. You can't stream 1080p unless your on a blazing connection.
You have to think of it in the sense that each Blu-Ray disc can hold 100GB, maybe even 150GB with the triple layer disc. At $5 a disc you get 100GB of storage. That's $0.05 per gigabyte. A 500GB of storage at a decent disk speed, from a reliable company is more like $150, but let's assume it's $120. The cost per gigabyte is just under a quarter. Per gigabyte, you're paying 20 cents extra on the hard drive. But that doesn't even account for the fact that the cost of distribution is distributed in the price of the digital file almost as much as the cost of the media is distributed in the cost of the physical media from a vendor like Amazon. And you know that as soon as one of the formats wins, the cost of DVDs will get slashed as the volume of sales goes up.
You have to think of it in the sense that each Blu-Ray disc can hold 100GB, maybe even 150GB with the triple layer disc. At $5 a disc you get 100GB of storage. That's $0.05 per gigabyte. A 500GB of storage at a decent disk speed, from a reliable company is more like $150, but let's assume it's $120. The cost per gigabyte is just under a quarter. Per gigabyte, you're paying 20 cents extra on the hard drive. But that doesn't even account for the fact that the cost of distribution is distributed in the price of the digital file almost as much as the cost of the media is distributed in the cost of the physical media from a vendor like Amazon. And you know that as soon as one of the formats wins, the cost of DVDs will get slashed as the volume of sales goes up.
Blu-ray disc holds 25GB/layer not 50, BTW, not that it makes much difference. However, you would need to wait very long time before you can buy 4-layer 100 GB blu-ray media disc for $5, and have a burner($) that can burn 4 layers, if it ever materializes out of the lab.
I'm too lazy to split this quote up, so I'm just going to respond to a few things that come to mind at first. I'll probably miss a few items.
Do TV shows have that warning when they are broadcast on TV? No. Especially because unlike movie, you ARE allowed to record TV shows for personal use such as with VHS or DVR.
My question still stands, do movie downloads from iTunes right now have FBI warnings?
Quote:
Originally Posted by icfireball
The point about Netflix is that you don't have to browse or select movies. You keep a list if movie you want, even if they are not out yet, and Netflix sends it to you as soon as it's available. When you return it, it sends you the next movie on your list. You are never without a movie with Netflix.
Same situation here. Just select 50 movies you want, and they will be queued up and download as they can. Again, you would never be without a movie. Plus, Netflix has a turn around of minimum 2 days. On-demand video downloads TODAY would be faster than that for a movie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by icfireball
1080p is unrealistic right now because of speeds and bandwidth. People want instant gratification. You can't stream 1080p unless your on a blazing connection.
Streaming I will agree with is not possible today. However, you can easily start a movie downloading in the morning, and it would be ready for you in the evening. The math has been done in other threads, so I wont rehash it here. But a 1080p movie is downloadable over a 3Mbps connection in 12 hours (thats with 80% line saturation).
Quote:
Originally Posted by icfireball
You have to think of it in the sense that each Blu-Ray disc can hold 100GB, maybe even 150GB with the triple layer disc.
A double-layer disk holds 50GB, so for a 150GB disk you'd need 6 layers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by icfireball
At $5 a disc you get 100GB of storage. That's $0.05 per gigabyte. A 500GB of storage at a decent disk speed, from a reliable company is more like $150, but let's assume it's $120. The cost per gigabyte is just under a quarter. Per gigabyte, you're paying 20 cents extra on the hard drive...
Where are you getting your numbers from? First, there are no 100GB disk. Second $5? Are you a bit ahead of the times here? Third, a "500GB of storage at a decent disk speed, from a reliable company" is $96.99 (WD Caviar SE16 500GB Hard Drive). You need to do some more research my friend before you start throwing around numbers.
Streaming I will agree with is not possible today. However, you can easily start a movie downloading in the morning, and it would be ready for you in the evening. The math has been done in other threads, so I wont rehash it here. But a 1080p movie is downloadable over a 3Mbps connection in 12 hours (thats with 80% line saturation).
I have a 6 Mbps DSL connetion and I am able to download 640k/s, which in an hour will download about 2.3 GB. Therefore, an hour or two of buffering time will allow 1080p streaming on most movies encoded with DD, DTS, or DD+ audio track. I would guess adding lossless audio would mean longer buffer time or faster download speed, but we're getting close to having the live streaming possible on hidef contents.
My question still stands, do movie downloads from iTunes right now have FBI warnings?
I don't know, I haven't purchased one. I would presume so. But honestly, you are just grasping at straws here. That is totally irrelevant. Who cares about a 10 second FBI warning anyways?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kupan787
Same situation here. Just select 50 movies you want, and they will be queued up and download as they can. Again, you would never be without a movie. Plus, Netflix has a turn around of minimum 2 days. On-demand video downloads TODAY would be faster than that for a movie.
NO! Netflix usually gets movies delivered next day. Unless you already have your maximum out, you'd have to wait the one day to send it back, and then one day to get the new movie, but that's a big unless as most don't have the maximum out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kupan787
Streaming I will agree with is not possible today. However, you can easily start a movie downloading in the morning, and it would be ready for you in the evening. The math has been done in other threads, so I wont rehash it here. But a 1080p movie is downloadable over a 3Mbps connection in 12 hours (thats with 80% line saturation).
You are completely ignoring so many factors of reality. If everybody were to download movies on-demand the internet would be extremely slow. Our current internet infrastructure simply is not capable of handling this kind of bandwidth. That's not to say this won't change because it will, but for now on-demand over the internet in full-HD and as a primary source of movie distribution is not realistic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kupan787
A double-layer disk holds 50GB, so for a 150GB disk you'd need 6 layers.
Where are you getting your numbers from? First, there are no 100GB disk. Second $5? Are you a bit ahead of the times here? Third, a "500GB of storage at a decent disk speed, from a reliable company" is $96.99 (WD Caviar SE16 500GB Hard Drive). You need to do some more research my friend before you start throwing around numbers.
I made a mistake – I was forgetting that the dual-layer disc was 50GB, and the single-layer disc was 25. Regardless, Blu-Ray has succeeded in making triple an quad layer discs, although they are not in use yet.
Regarding the 500GB hard drive, I literally went to New Egg and the first 500GB hard drive (7200) that appeared and that was $149.
But anyways, according to the Blu-Ray group, the replication cost of a blu-ray disc is in the single digit of Euro cents. Assuming 9 cents, the largest single digit value, at todays exchange rate, that's $0.132, or around 13 cents. So I'm sorry, I was wrong. The actual cost per 1GB is $0.00264, or a quarter of a cent... assuming of course a 50GB disc.
Let's just put it this way: the cost of Storage is built into the cost when buying a DVD. The cost of a digital download (perhaps SLIGHTLY cheaper), does account for the cost of storage. If you combine the cost of storage with the cost of of the digital on-demand download, you'll likely be paying more than if you just buy the DVD.
Yep. That and the only way you can lose your entire movie collection with physical media is a housefire, act of god or theft; not very common. But with digital downloads, a hard drive failure means you lose your entire collection instantly. I'd bet nearly everyone has been the victim of a hard drive failure or seven in their lifetime. I think we need massive solid-state storage before we can seriously think about putting thousands of dollars of movies in a box the size of your hand.
I have lost more DVDs and CDs to kids than I have to theft, housefire or acts of god. I have lost more DVDs and CDs than I have lost hard drives.
If I had a multi-terrabyte media collection it would be on a RAID 10 array or ZFS RAID-Z. Then no single or double HD failure would lose data.
If I were really paranoid, I'd look for remote backup somewhere and then not have to worry about housefire, act of god or theft.
I don't think that means anything more than is said. Since MS doesn't have anything more than an internal DVD drive, they could release an external BR drive with little effort and anyone with an XBOX could use it. They're well positioned to deal with either format in the long run. It doesn't help them much as far as games that may require multiple discs but at least their console is agnostic as far as support of HD formats.
I'm feeling very blue because I won't be able to afford Blu for quite awhile.
I still have a lot of HD DVD to get through though. Hopefully the unofficial death of HDDVD will spur HDM adoption and studios will start taking advantage of the extra bandwidth of Blu-Ray. I think that'll only matter in crazy-go-nuts action scenes, but it will be beneficial.
Both Paramount and Universal are biding their time and follow Warner's switch to Blu-ray within a matter of weeks, according to established movie writer Bill Hunt of Digital Bits. Sources "second to none" allege that these two remaining major supports of HD DVD are ready to switch to releasing Blu-ray movies but are waiting on the right conditions to announce the move, regardless of obligations. While Universal is waiting on its current contract to expire by February, Paramount is simply waiting to have one or more titles ready before it exercises its now corroborated opt-out clause from its HD DVD exclusivity deal, the insiders say.
If accurate, the transition would all but immediately end the conflict between Blu-ray and HD DVD, placing all major studios in support of the former HD disc standard. The Warner shift is already understood to have given roughly 70 percent of all HD movie releases to Blu-ray and resulted in the HD DVD Promotional Group postponing its keynote for this week's Consumer Electronics Show, which has now been canceled outright.
Toshiba should probably get started on some combo players if they have any interest in selling anything that plays discs this year.
So...how long before a consumer can buy a finished Blu-Ray player?
Toshiba should probably get started on some combo players if they have any interest in selling anything that plays discs this year.
So...how long before a consumer can buy a finished Blu-Ray player?
If anyone, Toshiba would make a great combo player for sure. The HD-XA2 is still considered the best video player out there on the market under $2k budget.
As for the Blu-ray standalone players, I believe only the profile 1.1 is a mandated spec since end of Nov. 2007. The profile 2.0 (BD Live) will take longer time to be implemented as a mandated blu-ray hardware spec. I guess this is one way to make consumers upgrade their hardwares or force feed BD supporters with PS3.
Comments
I'm too lazy to split this quote up, so I'm just going to respond to a few things that come to mind at first. I'll probably miss a few items.
Do TV shows have that warning when they are broadcast on TV? No. Especially because unlike movie, you ARE allowed to record TV shows for personal use such as with VHS or DVR.
The point about Netflix is that you don't have to browse or select movies. You keep a list if movie you want, even if they are not out yet, and Netflix sends it to you as soon as it's available. When you return it, it sends you the next movie on your list. You are never without a movie with Netflix.
1080p is unrealistic right now because of speeds and bandwidth. People want instant gratification. You can't stream 1080p unless your on a blazing connection.
You have to think of it in the sense that each Blu-Ray disc can hold 100GB, maybe even 150GB with the triple layer disc. At $5 a disc you get 100GB of storage. That's $0.05 per gigabyte. A 500GB of storage at a decent disk speed, from a reliable company is more like $150, but let's assume it's $120. The cost per gigabyte is just under a quarter. Per gigabyte, you're paying 20 cents extra on the hard drive. But that doesn't even account for the fact that the cost of distribution is distributed in the price of the digital file almost as much as the cost of the media is distributed in the cost of the physical media from a vendor like Amazon. And you know that as soon as one of the formats wins, the cost of DVDs will get slashed as the volume of sales goes up.
You have to think of it in the sense that each Blu-Ray disc can hold 100GB, maybe even 150GB with the triple layer disc. At $5 a disc you get 100GB of storage. That's $0.05 per gigabyte. A 500GB of storage at a decent disk speed, from a reliable company is more like $150, but let's assume it's $120. The cost per gigabyte is just under a quarter. Per gigabyte, you're paying 20 cents extra on the hard drive. But that doesn't even account for the fact that the cost of distribution is distributed in the price of the digital file almost as much as the cost of the media is distributed in the cost of the physical media from a vendor like Amazon. And you know that as soon as one of the formats wins, the cost of DVDs will get slashed as the volume of sales goes up.
Blu-ray disc holds 25GB/layer not 50, BTW, not that it makes much difference. However, you would need to wait very long time before you can buy 4-layer 100 GB blu-ray media disc for $5, and have a burner($) that can burn 4 layers, if it ever materializes out of the lab.
I'm too lazy to split this quote up, so I'm just going to respond to a few things that come to mind at first. I'll probably miss a few items.
Do TV shows have that warning when they are broadcast on TV? No. Especially because unlike movie, you ARE allowed to record TV shows for personal use such as with VHS or DVR.
My question still stands, do movie downloads from iTunes right now have FBI warnings?
The point about Netflix is that you don't have to browse or select movies. You keep a list if movie you want, even if they are not out yet, and Netflix sends it to you as soon as it's available. When you return it, it sends you the next movie on your list. You are never without a movie with Netflix.
Same situation here. Just select 50 movies you want, and they will be queued up and download as they can. Again, you would never be without a movie. Plus, Netflix has a turn around of minimum 2 days. On-demand video downloads TODAY would be faster than that for a movie.
1080p is unrealistic right now because of speeds and bandwidth. People want instant gratification. You can't stream 1080p unless your on a blazing connection.
Streaming I will agree with is not possible today. However, you can easily start a movie downloading in the morning, and it would be ready for you in the evening. The math has been done in other threads, so I wont rehash it here. But a 1080p movie is downloadable over a 3Mbps connection in 12 hours (thats with 80% line saturation).
You have to think of it in the sense that each Blu-Ray disc can hold 100GB, maybe even 150GB with the triple layer disc.
A double-layer disk holds 50GB, so for a 150GB disk you'd need 6 layers.
At $5 a disc you get 100GB of storage. That's $0.05 per gigabyte. A 500GB of storage at a decent disk speed, from a reliable company is more like $150, but let's assume it's $120. The cost per gigabyte is just under a quarter. Per gigabyte, you're paying 20 cents extra on the hard drive...
Where are you getting your numbers from? First, there are no 100GB disk. Second $5? Are you a bit ahead of the times here? Third, a "500GB of storage at a decent disk speed, from a reliable company" is $96.99 (WD Caviar SE16 500GB Hard Drive). You need to do some more research my friend before you start throwing around numbers.
Streaming I will agree with is not possible today. However, you can easily start a movie downloading in the morning, and it would be ready for you in the evening. The math has been done in other threads, so I wont rehash it here. But a 1080p movie is downloadable over a 3Mbps connection in 12 hours (thats with 80% line saturation).
I have a 6 Mbps DSL connetion and I am able to download 640k/s, which in an hour will download about 2.3 GB. Therefore, an hour or two of buffering time will allow 1080p streaming on most movies encoded with DD, DTS, or DD+ audio track. I would guess adding lossless audio would mean longer buffer time or faster download speed, but we're getting close to having the live streaming possible on hidef contents.
My question still stands, do movie downloads from iTunes right now have FBI warnings?
I don't know, I haven't purchased one. I would presume so. But honestly, you are just grasping at straws here. That is totally irrelevant. Who cares about a 10 second FBI warning anyways?
Same situation here. Just select 50 movies you want, and they will be queued up and download as they can. Again, you would never be without a movie. Plus, Netflix has a turn around of minimum 2 days. On-demand video downloads TODAY would be faster than that for a movie.
NO! Netflix usually gets movies delivered next day. Unless you already have your maximum out, you'd have to wait the one day to send it back, and then one day to get the new movie, but that's a big unless as most don't have the maximum out.
Streaming I will agree with is not possible today. However, you can easily start a movie downloading in the morning, and it would be ready for you in the evening. The math has been done in other threads, so I wont rehash it here. But a 1080p movie is downloadable over a 3Mbps connection in 12 hours (thats with 80% line saturation).
You are completely ignoring so many factors of reality. If everybody were to download movies on-demand the internet would be extremely slow. Our current internet infrastructure simply is not capable of handling this kind of bandwidth. That's not to say this won't change because it will, but for now on-demand over the internet in full-HD and as a primary source of movie distribution is not realistic.
A double-layer disk holds 50GB, so for a 150GB disk you'd need 6 layers.
Where are you getting your numbers from? First, there are no 100GB disk. Second $5? Are you a bit ahead of the times here? Third, a "500GB of storage at a decent disk speed, from a reliable company" is $96.99 (WD Caviar SE16 500GB Hard Drive). You need to do some more research my friend before you start throwing around numbers.
I made a mistake – I was forgetting that the dual-layer disc was 50GB, and the single-layer disc was 25. Regardless, Blu-Ray has succeeded in making triple an quad layer discs, although they are not in use yet.
Regarding the 500GB hard drive, I literally went to New Egg and the first 500GB hard drive (7200) that appeared and that was $149.
But anyways, according to the Blu-Ray group, the replication cost of a blu-ray disc is in the single digit of Euro cents. Assuming 9 cents, the largest single digit value, at todays exchange rate, that's $0.132, or around 13 cents. So I'm sorry, I was wrong. The actual cost per 1GB is $0.00264, or a quarter of a cent... assuming of course a 50GB disc.
Let's just put it this way: the cost of Storage is built into the cost when buying a DVD. The cost of a digital download (perhaps SLIGHTLY cheaper), does account for the cost of storage. If you combine the cost of storage with the cost of of the digital on-demand download, you'll likely be paying more than if you just buy the DVD.
Yep. That and the only way you can lose your entire movie collection with physical media is a housefire, act of god or theft; not very common. But with digital downloads, a hard drive failure means you lose your entire collection instantly. I'd bet nearly everyone has been the victim of a hard drive failure or seven in their lifetime. I think we need massive solid-state storage before we can seriously think about putting thousands of dollars of movies in a box the size of your hand.
I have lost more DVDs and CDs to kids than I have to theft, housefire or acts of god. I have lost more DVDs and CDs than I have lost hard drives.
If I had a multi-terrabyte media collection it would be on a RAID 10 array or ZFS RAID-Z. Then no single or double HD failure would lose data.
If I were really paranoid, I'd look for remote backup somewhere and then not have to worry about housefire, act of god or theft.
M$ feeling the Blu glow?
Those who won't agree that this has any significance will get very vocal, but I include it anyway.
M$ feeling the Blu glow?
I don't think that means anything more than is said. Since MS doesn't have anything more than an internal DVD drive, they could release an external BR drive with little effort and anyone with an XBOX could use it. They're well positioned to deal with either format in the long run. It doesn't help them much as far as games that may require multiple discs but at least their console is agnostic as far as support of HD formats.
Batman Begins and Matrix coming to BD with PiP
Thanks Marz..
I'm feeling Blu
I still have a lot of HD DVD to get through though. Hopefully the unofficial death of HDDVD will spur HDM adoption and studios will start taking advantage of the extra bandwidth of Blu-Ray. I think that'll only matter in crazy-go-nuts action scenes, but it will be beneficial.
Thanks Marz..
I'm feeling Blu
To paraphrase Lenny Nimoy "I am not Marz"
Both Paramount and Universal are biding their time and follow Warner's switch to Blu-ray within a matter of weeks, according to established movie writer Bill Hunt of Digital Bits. Sources "second to none" allege that these two remaining major supports of HD DVD are ready to switch to releasing Blu-ray movies but are waiting on the right conditions to announce the move, regardless of obligations. While Universal is waiting on its current contract to expire by February, Paramount is simply waiting to have one or more titles ready before it exercises its now corroborated opt-out clause from its HD DVD exclusivity deal, the insiders say.
If accurate, the transition would all but immediately end the conflict between Blu-ray and HD DVD, placing all major studios in support of the former HD disc standard. The Warner shift is already understood to have given roughly 70 percent of all HD movie releases to Blu-ray and resulted in the HD DVD Promotional Group postponing its keynote for this week's Consumer Electronics Show, which has now been canceled outright.
Toshiba should probably get started on some combo players if they have any interest in selling anything that plays discs this year.
So...how long before a consumer can buy a finished Blu-Ray player?
Do you mean a PS3?
I mean besides a $400 game console.
It's a good and relevant item for your living room for at least 5 years.
But $400 for the PS3 is a pretty good price. It's still considered one of the best. The traditional remote is extra, though.
[P]So...how long before a consumer can buy a finished Blu-Ray player?[/P]
A Profile 1.1 player is just as finished as a Profile 2.0 player. The current Panasonic player is 1.1.
Poor HD DVD. When it rains, it pours:
Toshiba should probably get started on some combo players if they have any interest in selling anything that plays discs this year.
So...how long before a consumer can buy a finished Blu-Ray player?
If anyone, Toshiba would make a great combo player for sure. The HD-XA2 is still considered the best video player out there on the market under $2k budget.
As for the Blu-ray standalone players, I believe only the profile 1.1 is a mandated spec since end of Nov. 2007. The profile 2.0 (BD Live) will take longer time to be implemented as a mandated blu-ray hardware spec. I guess this is one way to make consumers upgrade their hardwares or force feed BD supporters with PS3.
To paraphrase Lenny Nimoy "I am not Marz"
But you want to be him...I heard he's one sexy beast.