Have you tried any of the BD+ titles and profile 1.1 movies?... I heard some standalone players were having trouble with extra long load time over a minute and some machines locking up at times.
Can you name some 1.1 movies? All I know is I put the BD disc in the Panny stand-alone player, press play and eventually the movie comes up. Well, I should say those darn previews one had to skip chapters through. I've only had two problems. Both were rentals from Netflix and the replacement disc worked fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac
BTW, ,many AV enthusiasts are considered "geeks", and the HDM market still remians to be in the enthusiast/niche status. Perhaps, that is the reason for people wanting all the bells-and-whistle features. Of course, there are also the gaming "geeks" group supporting the HDM as well.
Yes, but for HDM to succeed as a media it must move past the "geek" stage and enter the consumer arena. Its one chance to do this is with one and only one format, not two competing ones. You do want HDM to succeed don't you?
With HD Movie rentals on the Apple TV, I'll be enjoying blu-ray exclusive titles that way until blu-ray finishes their format and gets their prices to a reasonable level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker
What a resounding cry of defeat. That is almost sad. Oddly enough I'm laughing.
Every HD-DVD owner just learned they bought an overpriced upscaling DVD player. That is just so pathetic. And I am still laughing.
With 75% of HDTV owners feeling that regular DVDs are good enough for them, it's probably the smartest move Toshiba's made yet. No one in their right mind would buy a player for HD DVDs what with only two studios behind it now. But a DVD player that makes my DVDs look better, and also happens to play HD DVDs? Sounds like a reasonable investment.
The trick with getting people to adopt high definition is figuring out a way to make them pay for something they don't appreciate. HDTVs didn't really take off until it was nearly impossible to walk out of a store with one that wasn't HD. Blu-Ray has a coupe million users because Sony fanboys got a player for free when they bought a PS3. With high definition discs to go mainstream, it's going to have to come to a point where if a person needs a new DVD player, they can't walk out of the store with one that doesn't also happen to play some flavor of high-definition discs.
I respectfully disagree. I think this has reaffirmed my decision to stick with Netflix and either rent HD from them or buy the copies I want to add to my collection.
- Netflix is cheaper by far (and this is even without bothering with Netflix online offering which appears to be lower overall quality to Apple's) and has a better selection.
- There is no option to actually purchase HD content from Apple and their machines have no means of playing *purchased* HD media (the second part I didn't expect from Apple anyhow but it ensures my PS3 is far from obsolescent).
The aTV and iTMS may be a boon to the "I want it right now" crowd, but I'll be pleasantly surprised if it takes off in any meaningful way this time. It's nice that the 189** people who bought the aTV early get the updated software free(I can't say they bought 1st gen because there's nothing to indicate they've changed the hardware yet).
** no need to correct me, that number was calculated using pessimistic sarcasm
I agree. This is only for the "right now" crowd. Movie enthusiasts won't flock to this. It might be okay for that Friday night "you want to rent a movie?" moment. But for those of us who are movie buffs, no way.
No ownership.
No 1080p.
No instant playback (this will never happen until the US gets it's bandwidth head pulled out of its ass).
No running commentary.
No special features, deleted scenes, behind-the-scenes featurettes.
I agree, but movie downloads, coupled with the Digital Copies on DVD (essentially legal DVD ripping) may take enough people out of the HD market that it remains a small niche.
2. RE: Could Apple TV 2.0 End the High-Def Format War? MacWorld 2008 Analysis
Any article comparing Apple TV 2.0 to Blu-Ray/HD-DVD that fails to mention that max output of Apple TV is 720p does a real disservice to the people. The strongest feature of the Blu-Ray/HD-DVD format is 1080p output. Even the Xbox 360 has had 1080p movie output since 2006. Apple needs to catch up, not be praised for something someone esle has been doing better for 2 years.
I don't believe that's entirely forthright. Xbox Live rentals are 720p NOT 1080p. If I'm not mistaken the picture is upconverted by the HDMI output. But doesn't Apple TV upconvert as well? If so Apple is offering the same kind of viewing quality. (Which by the way looks pretty damn good on my 42" Panasonic plasma.) I think the comment is comparing the output of the HD DVD player to Apple movie rentals and that's not a fair comparison when it's supposed to be like Xbox Live's movie rental service.
I agree. This is only for the "right now" crowd. Movie enthusiasts won't flock to this. It might be okay for that Friday night "you want to rent a movie?" moment. But for those of us who are movie buffs, no way.
No ownership.
No 1080p.
No instant playback (this will never happen until the US gets it's bandwidth head pulled out of its ass).
No running commentary.
No special features, deleted scenes, behind-the-scenes featurettes.
Do you "movie buffs" purchase every single movie you see? No, you purchase your faves and rent the rest. Also, MOST people don't bother with the extras of the movies they don't purchase and just rent to see it.
Make no mistake, iTunes and Xbox Live movie rentals will be a bigger deal very soon. Before iTunes did this only those with Xbox Live accounts understood how much fun this can be. iTunes will bring it to the greater masses.
HOWEVER, there will always be those movies we want to buy so I doubt BD will disappear. This just makes it easier to hold out buying an unfinished product and waiting for prices to drop on the players.
As a sidenote, I gotta laugh over Netflix not bothering to offer streaming movies for mac users. They are silly not to do that.
720p is plenty fine, especially if it means cutting your download time by 1/3. People will care as much about 1080p over 720p as they did about Betamax's quality advantage over VHS.
I respectfully disagree. I think this has reaffirmed my decision to stick with Netflix and either rent HD from them or buy the copies I want to add to my collection.
- Netflix is cheaper by far (and this is even without bothering with Netflix online offering which appears to be lower overall quality to Apple's) and has a better selection...
Which is a fine option of you have a player. The majority of tv owners have sat out this format war so far. But even if you own a HDDVD or BD player, there are times when you want to see a movie quicker than the time it takes to receive it in the mail. That's why I have rented movies from Xbox Live even though I also use Net Flix.
720p is plenty fine, especially if it means cutting your download time by 1/3. People will care as much about 1080p over 720p as they did about Betamax's quality advantage over VHS.
If enough people say SD-DVD on HDTV is good enough, I wonder what those exact people would say about 720p downloads over 1080p on discs on their HDTV, especially on the rentals?
720p is plenty fine, especially if it means cutting your download time by 1/3. People will care as much about 1080p over 720p as they did about Betamax's quality advantage over VHS.
Also it's worth mentioning that the movies will probably be viewable before fully downloaded. You can start watching the rentals from Xbox Live at 40% completion. The wait is really not bad at all.
Can you name some 1.1 movies? All I know is I put the BD disc in the Panny stand-alone player, press play and eventually the movie comes up. Well, I should say those darn previews one had to skip chapters through. I've only had two problems. Both were rentals from Netflix and the replacement disc worked fine.
I am not sure if there is a profile 1.1 movie, yet. Most reported problems were on the BD+ because few of the recent Fox releases came with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCodger73
Yes, but for HDM to succeed as a media it must move past the "geek" stage and enter the consumer arena. Its one chance to do this is with one and only one format, not two competing ones. You do want HDM to succeed don't you?
I agree that mass needs to engage at some point in order to get out of niche status. However, the BD-player prices remains high and majority of the BD-players are game console, which is far from being J6P friendly. Most importantly, the HDM prices have not been dropped and probably will remain as premium priced format for a while. I just don't see such business model reaching out to the mass consumers in immediate future. This to me would be a stalemate with or without having multiple HiDef optical formats.
In any rate, I would love to see HDM succeed, but it does not have to be on the optical disc space. I'm looking forward to manage my HDM/DVD library on HTPC's and media server at home. As I said before, the HDM market being niche or not, it makes little difference to me as long as there are HDM's I want out there, in the form of HD-DVD, blu-ray, or even the downloadable copy at a discount. In the end, they should be on my media server.
Also it's worth mentioning that the movies will probably be viewable before fully downloaded. You can start watching the rentals from Xbox Live at 40% completion. The wait is really not bad at all.
Yep, sounds like it's only a minute or two before you can begin playing the film. Pretty snazzy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac
If enough people say SD-DVD on HDTV is good enough, I wonder what those exact people would say about 720p downloads over 1080p on discs on their HDTV, especially on the rentals?
As compressed as they have to be for internet delivery, the visual advantage of 1080p is almost entirely lost. Check this out:
Quote:
The difference between 720p content and 1080p content is typically only visible on sets over 50", particularly when viewed from a ten foot distance.
For download devices like Apple TV and Vudu, 720p can offer high quality video at reasonable compression settings; the additional pixels of 1080p requires more compression to deliver over the Internet, which results in either no obvious improvement or far longer download times.
I'll take my physical discs at 1080p, and my online rentals at 720p please.
Comments
Have you tried any of the BD+ titles and profile 1.1 movies?... I heard some standalone players were having trouble with extra long load time over a minute and some machines locking up at times.
Can you name some 1.1 movies? All I know is I put the BD disc in the Panny stand-alone player, press play and eventually the movie comes up. Well, I should say those darn previews one had to skip chapters through. I've only had two problems. Both were rentals from Netflix and the replacement disc worked fine.
BTW, ,many AV enthusiasts are considered "geeks", and the HDM market still remians to be in the enthusiast/niche status. Perhaps, that is the reason for people wanting all the bells-and-whistle features. Of course, there are also the gaming "geeks" group supporting the HDM as well.
Yes, but for HDM to succeed as a media it must move past the "geek" stage and enter the consumer arena. Its one chance to do this is with one and only one format, not two competing ones. You do want HDM to succeed don't you?
What a resounding cry of defeat. That is almost sad. Oddly enough I'm laughing.
Every HD-DVD owner just learned they bought an overpriced upscaling DVD player. That is just so pathetic. And I am still laughing.
With 75% of HDTV owners feeling that regular DVDs are good enough for them, it's probably the smartest move Toshiba's made yet. No one in their right mind would buy a player for HD DVDs what with only two studios behind it now. But a DVD player that makes my DVDs look better, and also happens to play HD DVDs? Sounds like a reasonable investment.
The trick with getting people to adopt high definition is figuring out a way to make them pay for something they don't appreciate. HDTVs didn't really take off until it was nearly impossible to walk out of a store with one that wasn't HD. Blu-Ray has a coupe million users because Sony fanboys got a player for free when they bought a PS3. With high definition discs to go mainstream, it's going to have to come to a point where if a person needs a new DVD player, they can't walk out of the store with one that doesn't also happen to play some flavor of high-definition discs.
This video cracked me up.
The only downside is it probably invokes Godwin's law in the process...
seems like everyone is using this clip.
the first one used came from this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_D15HCJxpAM
The war may finally be over. The winner is iTunes.
I respectfully disagree. I think this has reaffirmed my decision to stick with Netflix and either rent HD from them or buy the copies I want to add to my collection.
- Netflix is cheaper by far (and this is even without bothering with Netflix online offering which appears to be lower overall quality to Apple's) and has a better selection.
- There is no option to actually purchase HD content from Apple and their machines have no means of playing *purchased* HD media (the second part I didn't expect from Apple anyhow but it ensures my PS3 is far from obsolescent).
The aTV and iTMS may be a boon to the "I want it right now" crowd, but I'll be pleasantly surprised if it takes off in any meaningful way this time. It's nice that the 189** people who bought the aTV early get the updated software free(I can't say they bought 1st gen because there's nothing to indicate they've changed the hardware yet).
** no need to correct me, that number was calculated using pessimistic sarcasm
The war may finally be over. The winner is iTunes.
With 5mbps 720p for rent only content? Hardly!
No ownership.
No 1080p.
No instant playback (this will never happen until the US gets it's bandwidth head pulled out of its ass).
No running commentary.
No special features, deleted scenes, behind-the-scenes featurettes.
The war may finally be over. The winner is iTunes.
Hmmm... noticed this from a reader's comment:
2. RE: Could Apple TV 2.0 End the High-Def Format War? MacWorld 2008 Analysis
Any article comparing Apple TV 2.0 to Blu-Ray/HD-DVD that fails to mention that max output of Apple TV is 720p does a real disservice to the people. The strongest feature of the Blu-Ray/HD-DVD format is 1080p output. Even the Xbox 360 has had 1080p movie output since 2006. Apple needs to catch up, not be praised for something someone esle has been doing better for 2 years.
I don't believe that's entirely forthright. Xbox Live rentals are 720p NOT 1080p. If I'm not mistaken the picture is upconverted by the HDMI output. But doesn't Apple TV upconvert as well? If so Apple is offering the same kind of viewing quality. (Which by the way looks pretty damn good on my 42" Panasonic plasma.) I think the comment is comparing the output of the HD DVD player to Apple movie rentals and that's not a fair comparison when it's supposed to be like Xbox Live's movie rental service.
I agree. This is only for the "right now" crowd. Movie enthusiasts won't flock to this. It might be okay for that Friday night "you want to rent a movie?" moment. But for those of us who are movie buffs, no way.
No ownership.
No 1080p.
No instant playback (this will never happen until the US gets it's bandwidth head pulled out of its ass).
No running commentary.
No special features, deleted scenes, behind-the-scenes featurettes.
Do you "movie buffs" purchase every single movie you see? No, you purchase your faves and rent the rest. Also, MOST people don't bother with the extras of the movies they don't purchase and just rent to see it.
Make no mistake, iTunes and Xbox Live movie rentals will be a bigger deal very soon. Before iTunes did this only those with Xbox Live accounts understood how much fun this can be. iTunes will bring it to the greater masses.
HOWEVER, there will always be those movies we want to buy so I doubt BD will disappear. This just makes it easier to hold out buying an unfinished product and waiting for prices to drop on the players.
As a sidenote, I gotta laugh over Netflix not bothering to offer streaming movies for mac users. They are silly not to do that.
I respectfully disagree. I think this has reaffirmed my decision to stick with Netflix and either rent HD from them or buy the copies I want to add to my collection.
- Netflix is cheaper by far (and this is even without bothering with Netflix online offering which appears to be lower overall quality to Apple's) and has a better selection...
Which is a fine option of you have a player. The majority of tv owners have sat out this format war so far. But even if you own a HDDVD or BD player, there are times when you want to see a movie quicker than the time it takes to receive it in the mail. That's why I have rented movies from Xbox Live even though I also use Net Flix.
seems like everyone is using this clip.
the first one used came from this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_D15HCJxpAM
LMAO!!!!!!!
720p is plenty fine, especially if it means cutting your download time by 1/3. People will care as much about 1080p over 720p as they did about Betamax's quality advantage over VHS.
If enough people say SD-DVD on HDTV is good enough, I wonder what those exact people would say about 720p downloads over 1080p on discs on their HDTV, especially on the rentals?
LMAO!!!!!!!
haha, thats the first time you've seen it? to my knowledge it was the first one to use that clip.
absolute hilarity, i know.
720p is plenty fine, especially if it means cutting your download time by 1/3. People will care as much about 1080p over 720p as they did about Betamax's quality advantage over VHS.
Also it's worth mentioning that the movies will probably be viewable before fully downloaded. You can start watching the rentals from Xbox Live at 40% completion. The wait is really not bad at all.
haha, thats the first time you've seen it? to my knowledge it was the first one to use that clip.
absolute hilarity, i know.
Yes it was the first time I've seen it. My Xbox Live friends are going to hear from me for not telling me about it.
No it wasn't. When the specs were finalized they set a date for mandatory implementation. It was never optional.
You're right. The blu-ray profile 1.1 spec was unfinished until recently, and had set a date for mandatory implementation only two months ago.
Can you name some 1.1 movies? All I know is I put the BD disc in the Panny stand-alone player, press play and eventually the movie comes up. Well, I should say those darn previews one had to skip chapters through. I've only had two problems. Both were rentals from Netflix and the replacement disc worked fine.
I am not sure if there is a profile 1.1 movie, yet. Most reported problems were on the BD+ because few of the recent Fox releases came with it.
Yes, but for HDM to succeed as a media it must move past the "geek" stage and enter the consumer arena. Its one chance to do this is with one and only one format, not two competing ones. You do want HDM to succeed don't you?
I agree that mass needs to engage at some point in order to get out of niche status. However, the BD-player prices remains high and majority of the BD-players are game console, which is far from being J6P friendly. Most importantly, the HDM prices have not been dropped and probably will remain as premium priced format for a while. I just don't see such business model reaching out to the mass consumers in immediate future. This to me would be a stalemate with or without having multiple HiDef optical formats.
In any rate, I would love to see HDM succeed, but it does not have to be on the optical disc space. I'm looking forward to manage my HDM/DVD library on HTPC's and media server at home. As I said before, the HDM market being niche or not, it makes little difference to me as long as there are HDM's I want out there, in the form of HD-DVD, blu-ray, or even the downloadable copy at a discount. In the end, they should be on my media server.
Also it's worth mentioning that the movies will probably be viewable before fully downloaded. You can start watching the rentals from Xbox Live at 40% completion. The wait is really not bad at all.
Yep, sounds like it's only a minute or two before you can begin playing the film. Pretty snazzy.
If enough people say SD-DVD on HDTV is good enough, I wonder what those exact people would say about 720p downloads over 1080p on discs on their HDTV, especially on the rentals?
As compressed as they have to be for internet delivery, the visual advantage of 1080p is almost entirely lost. Check this out:
The difference between 720p content and 1080p content is typically only visible on sets over 50", particularly when viewed from a ten foot distance.
For download devices like Apple TV and Vudu, 720p can offer high quality video at reasonable compression settings; the additional pixels of 1080p requires more compression to deliver over the Internet, which results in either no obvious improvement or far longer download times.
I'll take my physical discs at 1080p, and my online rentals at 720p please.