Nonsense. People went Blu-Ray because a few million of them got the player for free in their console, and because Big Media wanted the extra DRM embedded in the players.
I'd argue that those people got a free console with their Blu Ray player. You *did* see the lame selection of games the PS3 started out with didn't you?
Most of the people I know with PS3s use them for movies at least 50% of the time. I don't personally know anyone who bought into HD DVD.
Nonsense. People went Blu-Ray because a few million of them got the player for free in their console, and because Big Media wanted the extra DRM embedded in the players.
I bought mine for the Blu-ray, as did my close friend. Another is planning on buying one soon simply for movies.
This pretty much sums up what HD-DVD adopters are all about. It never really got close to mainstream. People that went Blu-ray actually wanted to watch movies for the sake of watching movies. HD-DVD folks had a new hobby. Now their hobby is gone, and instead of choosing the winning format, they are going to take their marbles and go home.
haha... how would you know this from being on the sideline?... How many HD-DVD folks do you personally know? Or have you ever played a single HDM at your own home?
So, who's going to take their marbles and go home?
I'm not sure if your are familiar with the term "multi-task" and it can definitely apply to multiple hobbies. Yes, some people can manage multiple hobbies at once. I would also support blu-ray as a niche product as well, eventually, after collecting couple of lenses first.
Hm... Were they giving away free DVD players with new TV purchases in 1998 or 1999? or were they counting PS2 as a designated DVD players in the market?
That's because when DVD was launched there was no PS2. This time the situation is different. Imagine that.
Quote:
If Blu-Ray backers can manage to move 4 million standalone Blu-Ray players this year alone, then we can say that Blu-Ray maybe progressing at the rate of DVD in 1999(third year from intro). I would guess that 4 million players are alot to give away....... which means giving away average of 80k units/week. I don't think we're going to make it.
Given that there are millions of PS3s out there that are better Blu-ray player than the PS2 was a DVD player I'd say that the PS3 will have a significant impact on standalone sales.
Also, no one expects 4M standalone player sales this year. I would guess that for standalone sales Blu-ray will trail DVD by at least a year due to the impact of the format war and PS3 sales.
How that translates into "losing" to DVD or not becoming a mass market format is hard to imagine except for the sore losers around here. That blu-ray wont be the most successful introduction of a consumer product in CE history doesn't equal failure.
But it should be pretty easy to tell if blu-ray is destined for failure. If it isn't a hit in Xmas 2008 and 2009 then the consumer will have rejected it as an also ran. I don't think the studios, the retailers or the CE companies are going to let that happen if they can help it at all.
Can anyone name a format with that kind of support behind it failing in the CE market place? DIVX, UMD, DVDA. SACD (did I miss any?) didn't have the same level of widespread support as Blu-Ray.
"We have long held the belief that HD DVD is the best format for consumers based on quality and value, and with more than 1 million HD DVD players on the market, it's unfortunate to see Netflix make the decision to only stock Blu-ray titles going forward. While the Best Buy announcement says they will recommend Blu-ray, at least they will continue to carry HD DVD and offer consumers a choice at retail."
Here is one potential milestone for Blu-Ray success by Feb 2010:
5M standalone players total
5,000 titles
70 different players, 30 different brands
average price of $298 with sale prices at the $199 mark (during Xmas 2009)
These are the DVD numbers where it was declared one of the most successful product launches in CE history.
I didn't put Feb 2009 because I don't think Blu-Ray will reach these milestones this year. You may not agree with counting the "start" as when HD-DVD died but if Blu-ray can reach these numbers in the next two years it will be hard for anyone to argue that it failed.
So, who's going to take their marbles and go home?
I'm not sure if your are familiar with the term "multi-task" and it can definitely apply to multiple hobbies. Yes, some people can manage multiple hobbies at once. I would also support blu-ray as a niche product as well, eventually, after collecting couple of lenses first.
I suppose if the format I bought into went down the drain I'd feel a little testy too. It's hard to be philosophical in situations like this, especially when it initially looked like BD was going to be a non-starter.
bite, it sounds like you're lusting after some of Canon's L lenses.
I watched Elizabeth: The Golden Years on DVD Sunday night and Casino Royale on BD last night. The DVD on an upconverting player gave a pleasing picture. The BD PQ was outstanding. This was on a 50" 720p plasma. I read a figure the other day that 1/3 of all US households have a HDTV. I'm wondering, though, how many of these sets are 32" or smaller LCDs and how much they would benefit from HDM as compared to an upconverting DVD player?
One last question. If the format war is settled, could anyone explain to me what's the use of a high price combo player when a BD player is less than half the price. Personally I don't see any future for combo players, but then again that's only my personal opinion,
I suppose if the format I bought into went down the drain I'd feel a little testy too. It's hard to be philosophical in situations like this, especially when it initially looked like BD was going to be a non-starter.
Nah... I'm working towards an optical disc format free HDM library route and having either one optical format winning is not an issue to me, personally. I am hoping that mass consumer friendly HDM optical format would become a successor and help speed up the mass HDM adoption, but this chance has become even more remote with latest development. But I do support niche product and I do and will have enough HDM's to choose from for myself, also including the blu-ray library.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCodger73
bite, it sounds like you're lusting after some of Canon's L lenses.
Something like that... I want a f/2.8 moderate zoom lens with range 28 or 50-150 or 200m, and this is getting expensive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCodger73
One last question. If the format war is settled, could anyone explain to me what's the use of a high price combo player when a BD player is less than half the price. Personally I don't see any future for combo players, but then again that's only my personal opinion,
I think blu-ray should worry about getting a fully featured standalone player and have them priced at a reasonable consumer pricing very soon. Failure to meet the mass consumer market pricing within the opportuned window would lead to technology failure because the benefit of blu-ray technology in it's ability to deliver HDM on a disc will be lost. There will be more convinient technology availble to do the job and would probably gain traction faster than the optical disc format in 2 years of more.
The idea of the combo players suit well in the enthusiasts/early adoptor market, and it would still be a great product even at a extra cost for the time being. However, if and when HDM does gain traction and being adopted by mass consumers with only one favorable format, then the combo players will lose it's benefit. However, for the time being for now and by end of 2008, the HDM market will remain to be in the small niche enthusiasts format which means the combo players will be welcome even with a premium prices. The mass consumers don't have to know about the combo players.
That's because when DVD was launched there was no PS2. This time the situation is different. Imagine that.
Given that there are millions of PS3s out there that are better Blu-ray player than the PS2 was a DVD player I'd say that the PS3 will have a significant impact on standalone sales.
Also, no one expects 4M standalone player sales this year. I would guess that for standalone sales Blu-ray will trail DVD by at least a year due to the impact of the format war and PS3 sales.
How that translates into "losing" to DVD or not becoming a mass market format is hard to imagine except for the sore losers around here. That blu-ray wont be the most successful introduction of a consumer product in CE history doesn't equal failure.
But it should be pretty easy to tell if blu-ray is destined for failure. If it isn't a hit in Xmas 2008 and 2009 then the consumer will have rejected it as an also ran. I don't think the studios, the retailers or the CE companies are going to let that happen if they can help it at all.
Can anyone name a format with that kind of support behind it failing in the CE market place? DIVX, UMD, DVDA. SACD (did I miss any?) didn't have the same level of widespread support as Blu-Ray.
Like I've said Laserdisc went on for 20 years that way. The reason DVD was such a great success. Size, dramatic picture quality difference when compared to the leading media VHS, and durabiltiy. And with the previous success with the CD in audio it was time for a change. Between BR and DVD the difference isn't as noticable to the average consumer. Also DVD only came out 10 years ago so it's much sooner for a change in the major format of choice. Also people have invested heavily in DVD for the last 10 years. So it will have to depend on other selling points. Lowering of the price of both discs and players would help alot.
So, who's going to take their marbles and go home?
?? Are you gonna stop posting?
Some of us told you from the beginning, but you wouldn't listen, you kept up the "La La La, not listening" mantra, and you know you "won" that, in terms of going "I'm not listening" YOU won! but now your trying to go one better, your trying to turn this into the BD Vs Camera Lens thread.
Well I have to tell you, in terms of optical media BD has Camera Lenses beat HANDS down, I just hope this time, now that someones trying to tell you again, that you will listen.
PLEASE, don't make the mistake of trying to win the "La La La" title for a second time.
BD is a far better optical media format than CLs ever will be!
Here is one potential milestone for Blu-Ray success by Feb 2010:
5M standalone players total
5,000 titles
70 different players, 30 different brands
average price of $298 with sale prices at the $199 mark (during Xmas 2009)
These are the DVD numbers where it was declared one of the most successful product launches in CE history.
I didn't put Feb 2009 because I don't think Blu-Ray will reach these milestones this year. You may not agree with counting the "start" as when HD-DVD died but if Blu-ray can reach these numbers in the next two years it will be hard for anyone to argue that it failed.
It would be nice but we'll see. And they'd better get down to $ 199.00 before then if they want it to fly.
"they better"
Ive seen HD-DVDers say I will go format neutral when BD players hit $500, then a while later it was $400, then a while later it was 300, then 250 and now its $199.
Why don't they just admit that they don't want the format at ANY cost.
I decided that as I was going to get a PS3 anyway, I would support BD ONLY, format neutrality is and was a waste of the consumer/early adopters time, money and effort. all films on one format, worked for VHS, worked for DVD.
Meanwhile the BD folks Ive seen said G thats expensive.. followed by I've bought one, or Ive decided to get a PS3.
Buying one format, or the intent to buy one format, means you don't have to wear the schizoid hat, but those HD-DVDers who "claimed" to want to go format neutral and DIDN'T are still wearing the schizoid hat with pride, not wanting to admit that they will get BD "when its cheaper" despite the fact that they were ready and willing to buy a HD-DVD player that was MORE expensive THEN than a BD player is NOW. they need to to get past the "BD must DIE in order for HDM to win" hurdle.
Those who want a format go get it, those that don't should quite whinging about the other one AT ANY PRICE.
--
The numbers will be interesting if reached or even "almost" reached, but then some see the iPhone as a failed product as well, yet it is outpacing the original iPod sales by MILLIONS of units.
So comparing "similar" products sales figures is no lone indication of success or failure, is it.
VHS was endemic, no-one thought "expensive DVD and not a recorder" would take over either, apart from the early adopters, roughly HALF of whom have been wrong this time around about HD-DVD.
HALF of those early adopters seem to want BD to fail AS WELL, because SD-DVD players are seen as "endemic" THIS TIME ROUND.
Blu-ray disc movie sales across Europe have eclipsed the 2 million barrier a mere two months after reaching the 1 million unit mark.
Blu-ray movie sales in Europe total 2.4 million according to the latest figures from Media Control Gfk International. 79 per cent of the high-definition movie discs bought in 2008 to date were on the Blu-ray format.
"DVD-Video was first introduced into Western Europe in 1997, and the following year some 230,000 DVD players were installed and 2 million discs were sold through," the BDA said.
THE DARK satanic rumour mill has turned out a yarn which suggests that HD-DVD's number one backer, Toshiba, is about to throw in the towel and surrender the format wars to Blu-Ray.
Over the last few weeks there have been significant defections to Blu-Ray and each time it has been Toshiba who has piped up for the standard's future.
Well now according to that well-known tech magazine, the Hollywood Reporter even Toshiba has admited that HD-DVD's goose is not only cooked, but served in a fruit sauce and mostly been eaten.
A deep throat within Toshiba told the Reporter that Toshiba will be abandoning its high-definition format.
Officially the outfit has not said a dickie-bird about it yet. The last thing we heard was a statement that Tosh felt HD DVD was the best format for consumers, given the value and consistent quality inherent in our player offerings.
Toshiba has done all it can. It has spent millions on price reductions, advertising and everything. But it still cannot get the studios to back the standard. If it is any consolation, the only people who seem to be splashing out on Blu-Ray disks are the owners of Sony's PS3.
The format war has turned into a format death watch.
Toshiba is widely expected to pull the plug on its HD DVD format sometime in the coming weeks, reliable industry sources say, after a rash of retail defections that followed Warner Home Video's announcement in early January that it would support only the rival Blu-ray Disc format after May.
Officially, no decision has been made, insists Jodi Sally, vp of marketing for Toshiba America Consumer Products. "Based on its technological advancements, we continue to believe HD DVD is the best format for consumers, given the value and consistent quality inherent in our player offerings," she said.
But she hinted that something's in the air. "Given the market developments in the past month," she said, "Toshiba will continue to study the market impact and the value proposition for consumers, particularly in light of our recent price reductions on all HD DVD players."
Immediately after the Warner announcement, the HD DVD North American Promotional Group canceled its Consumer Electronics Show presentation. The following week, data collected by the NPD Group revealed Blu-ray took in 93% of all hardware sales for that week.
Toshiba subsequently fired back, drastically cutting its HD DVD player prices by as much as half, effective Jan. 15. But a hoped-for consumer sales surge never materialized; retail point-of-sale data collected by the NPD Group for the week ending Jan. 26 still showed Blu-ray Disc players ahead by a wide margin, 65% to 28%.
Software sales have declined as well. The latest Nielsen VideoScan First Alert sales data show the top-selling Blu-ray Disc title for the week, Sony Pictures Home Entertainment's "Across the Universe," sold more than three times as many copies the week ending Feb. 10 as the top HD DVD seller, Universal Studios Home Entertainment's "Elizabeth: The Golden Age." Blu-ray Disc titles also accounted for 81% of all high-def disc sales for the week, with HD DVD at just 19%.
Toshiba had been pitching its discounted HD DVD players toward the standard DVD crowd as well as high-def enthusiasts, noting in its ad message that the new players would make DVDs look a lot better as well. And as a last-ditch effort, the company ran an ad during the Super Bowl -- a 30-second spot that reportedly cost $2.7 million.
But in the end, sources say, the substantial loss Toshiba is incurring with each HD DVD player sold -- a figure sources say could be as high as several hundred dollars -- coupled with a series of high-profile retail defections has driven the company to at last concede defeat.
"An announcement is coming soon," said one source close to the HD DVD camp. "It could be a matter of weeks."
Microsoft is the other big player in the HD DVD equation. Last fall when Paramount Home Entertainment announced it was dropping its dual-format strategy and would release titles only in HD DVD, giving that side a brief resurgence, a pitch to journalists for interviews came from a Microsoft email address.
Several phone calls to Kevin Collins, Microsoft's normally accessible "HD DVD evangelist," were not returned. Nor were calls to Ken Graffeo, the Universal Studios Home Entertainment executive who doubles as co-president of the HD DVD North American Promotional Group.
When Warner abandoned HD DVD in January, the format was left with just two of the six major studios backing it, Universal Studios Home Entertainment and Paramount Home Entertainment. Blu-ray support among independents is rising. ADV Films, Tai Seng Entertainment, Topics Entertainment and National Geographic have all confirmed they are going Blu-ray exclusive, while more than one indie that was releasing titles just on HD DVD, including Surround Records and Opus Arte, will now offer Blu-ray as well.
This week, two key retailers, Best Buy and Netflix Inc., both got off the fence and threw their support behind Blu-ray exclusively, citing widespread studio support and consumer preference. Both companies said Warner's decision was a turning point in their strategies.
"We've listened to our customers, and we are responding," said Best Buy president and COO Brian Dunn.
Netflix spokesperson Steve Swasey said it appeared the format war had been won by Blu-ray for the benefit of everyone.
"We wanted to put an exclamation point behind that," he said.
Industry observers are closely watching Amazon, but there's been no movement, other than a 50% off sale for 150 HD DVD titles, including "Transformers," "Zodiac" and "Stardust."
Blockbuster Inc. last summer already decided to offer only Blu-ray Disc titles at its company-owned rental stores.
Wow...I wonder how long it will be before the HD DVD faithful here will comment on how viable a medium HD DVD still is if indeed Toshiba pulls the plug?
Interesting news to say the least. HD DVD's goose is cooked.
Things have gone from bad to worse for HD DVD in the space of one week.
Wal-Mart announced Friday morning that it, too, has chosen a side in the battle for high-definition video supremacy: by June it will only stock Blu-ray Disc players.
(Credit: Crave UK)A buyer in Wal-Mart's video division wrote this morning on her Wal-Mart Checkout blog that the retail giant had made the decision following Netflix and Best Buy's high-profile announcements that they will exclusively stock Blu-ray products.
Wrote Susan Chronister of Wal-Mart: "By June Wal-Mart will only be carrying Blu-ray movies and hardware machines, and of course standard-def movies, DVD players, and up-convert players."
"So," she continues, not mincing words, "if you bought the HD (DVD) player like me, I'd retire it to the bedroom, kid's playroom, or give it to your parents to play their John Wayne standard-def movies, and make space for a BD player..."
That might be the best option at this point, as the dominoes keep falling in Blu-ray's favor. While Netflix and Best Buy were pretty damning evidence that the end was near, now it's glaringly obvious: it's over for HD DVD. Now, that doesn't necessarily mean that consumers will automatically start buying Blu-ray players. As mentioned many times before here, prices will have to continue to fall on both Blu-ray players and packaged media for there to be any sort of mainstream adoption of the format.
There are rumors that Toshiba might soon be declaring defeat: The Hollywood Reporter has sources telling it that Toshiba, the main backer of the HD DVD, might drop its allegiance with the format in the next few weeks.
Toshiba denies it, but stay tuned. There's likely much more to come in this drama.
Damn...Wal-mart. Now J6P will have a clear choice and I don't see any chance whatsoever for HD DVD now. I think I can comfortably say it is over. Over. And thank goodness. Hopefully now we can all just start enjoying high-def movies via Blu-ray and wait for the day it makes its inclusion in the next Mac.
I would just like to say thanks to Warner Bros. for choosing a side and ending this long, terrible battle. Now there can be focus from everyone on one medium and motivate J6P to get behind it.
I would just like to say thanks to Warner Bros. for choosing a side and ending this long, terrible battle. Now there can be focus from everyone on one medium and motivate J6P to get behind it.
I agree, and though I thought I'd never say this, given their neutered encodes on BD thus far...but Warner, you rock! Thanks for causing the chain reaction that was sorely needed for the best format to take on a potential role of mass adoption. I commend them for siding with the consumer, and making it their best interest that high-def continue and potentially reach the masses.
Comments
Nonsense. People went Blu-Ray because a few million of them got the player for free in their console, and because Big Media wanted the extra DRM embedded in the players.
I'd argue that those people got a free console with their Blu Ray player. You *did* see the lame selection of games the PS3 started out with didn't you?
Most of the people I know with PS3s use them for movies at least 50% of the time. I don't personally know anyone who bought into HD DVD.
Nonsense. People went Blu-Ray because a few million of them got the player for free in their console, and because Big Media wanted the extra DRM embedded in the players.
I bought mine for the Blu-ray, as did my close friend. Another is planning on buying one soon simply for movies.
This pretty much sums up what HD-DVD adopters are all about. It never really got close to mainstream. People that went Blu-ray actually wanted to watch movies for the sake of watching movies. HD-DVD folks had a new hobby. Now their hobby is gone, and instead of choosing the winning format, they are going to take their marbles and go home.
haha... how would you know this from being on the sideline?... How many HD-DVD folks do you personally know? Or have you ever played a single HDM at your own home?
So, who's going to take their marbles and go home?
I'm not sure if your are familiar with the term "multi-task" and it can definitely apply to multiple hobbies. Yes, some people can manage multiple hobbies at once. I would also support blu-ray as a niche product as well, eventually, after collecting couple of lenses first.
Hm... Were they giving away free DVD players with new TV purchases in 1998 or 1999? or were they counting PS2 as a designated DVD players in the market?
That's because when DVD was launched there was no PS2. This time the situation is different. Imagine that.
If Blu-Ray backers can manage to move 4 million standalone Blu-Ray players this year alone, then we can say that Blu-Ray maybe progressing at the rate of DVD in 1999(third year from intro). I would guess that 4 million players are alot to give away....... which means giving away average of 80k units/week. I don't think we're going to make it.
Given that there are millions of PS3s out there that are better Blu-ray player than the PS2 was a DVD player I'd say that the PS3 will have a significant impact on standalone sales.
Also, no one expects 4M standalone player sales this year. I would guess that for standalone sales Blu-ray will trail DVD by at least a year due to the impact of the format war and PS3 sales.
How that translates into "losing" to DVD or not becoming a mass market format is hard to imagine except for the sore losers around here. That blu-ray wont be the most successful introduction of a consumer product in CE history doesn't equal failure.
But it should be pretty easy to tell if blu-ray is destined for failure. If it isn't a hit in Xmas 2008 and 2009 then the consumer will have rejected it as an also ran. I don't think the studios, the retailers or the CE companies are going to let that happen if they can help it at all.
Can anyone name a format with that kind of support behind it failing in the CE market place? DIVX, UMD, DVDA. SACD (did I miss any?) didn't have the same level of widespread support as Blu-Ray.
"We have long held the belief that HD DVD is the best format for consumers based on quality and value, and with more than 1 million HD DVD players on the market, it's unfortunate to see Netflix make the decision to only stock Blu-ray titles going forward. While the Best Buy announcement says they will recommend Blu-ray, at least they will continue to carry HD DVD and offer consumers a choice at retail."
Hahahahahahahahaha
Here is one potential milestone for Blu-Ray success by Feb 2010:
5M standalone players total
5,000 titles
70 different players, 30 different brands
average price of $298 with sale prices at the $199 mark (during Xmas 2009)
These are the DVD numbers where it was declared one of the most successful product launches in CE history.
I didn't put Feb 2009 because I don't think Blu-Ray will reach these milestones this year. You may not agree with counting the "start" as when HD-DVD died but if Blu-ray can reach these numbers in the next two years it will be hard for anyone to argue that it failed.
...
So, who's going to take their marbles and go home?
I'm not sure if your are familiar with the term "multi-task" and it can definitely apply to multiple hobbies. Yes, some people can manage multiple hobbies at once. I would also support blu-ray as a niche product as well, eventually, after collecting couple of lenses first.
I suppose if the format I bought into went down the drain I'd feel a little testy too. It's hard to be philosophical in situations like this, especially when it initially looked like BD was going to be a non-starter.
bite, it sounds like you're lusting after some of Canon's L lenses.
I watched Elizabeth: The Golden Years on DVD Sunday night and Casino Royale on BD last night. The DVD on an upconverting player gave a pleasing picture. The BD PQ was outstanding. This was on a 50" 720p plasma. I read a figure the other day that 1/3 of all US households have a HDTV. I'm wondering, though, how many of these sets are 32" or smaller LCDs and how much they would benefit from HDM as compared to an upconverting DVD player?
One last question. If the format war is settled, could anyone explain to me what's the use of a high price combo player when a BD player is less than half the price. Personally I don't see any future for combo players, but then again that's only my personal opinion,
I suppose if the format I bought into went down the drain I'd feel a little testy too. It's hard to be philosophical in situations like this, especially when it initially looked like BD was going to be a non-starter.
Nah... I'm working towards an optical disc format free HDM library route and having either one optical format winning is not an issue to me, personally. I am hoping that mass consumer friendly HDM optical format would become a successor and help speed up the mass HDM adoption, but this chance has become even more remote with latest development. But I do support niche product and I do and will have enough HDM's to choose from for myself, also including the blu-ray library.
bite, it sounds like you're lusting after some of Canon's L lenses.
Something like that...
One last question. If the format war is settled, could anyone explain to me what's the use of a high price combo player when a BD player is less than half the price. Personally I don't see any future for combo players, but then again that's only my personal opinion,
I think blu-ray should worry about getting a fully featured standalone player and have them priced at a reasonable consumer pricing very soon. Failure to meet the mass consumer market pricing within the opportuned window would lead to technology failure because the benefit of blu-ray technology in it's ability to deliver HDM on a disc will be lost. There will be more convinient technology availble to do the job and would probably gain traction faster than the optical disc format in 2 years of more.
The idea of the combo players suit well in the enthusiasts/early adoptor market, and it would still be a great product even at a extra cost for the time being. However, if and when HDM does gain traction and being adopted by mass consumers with only one favorable format, then the combo players will lose it's benefit. However, for the time being for now and by end of 2008, the HDM market will remain to be in the small niche enthusiasts format which means the combo players will be welcome even with a premium prices. The mass consumers don't have to know about the combo players.
That's because when DVD was launched there was no PS2. This time the situation is different. Imagine that.
Given that there are millions of PS3s out there that are better Blu-ray player than the PS2 was a DVD player I'd say that the PS3 will have a significant impact on standalone sales.
Also, no one expects 4M standalone player sales this year. I would guess that for standalone sales Blu-ray will trail DVD by at least a year due to the impact of the format war and PS3 sales.
How that translates into "losing" to DVD or not becoming a mass market format is hard to imagine except for the sore losers around here. That blu-ray wont be the most successful introduction of a consumer product in CE history doesn't equal failure.
But it should be pretty easy to tell if blu-ray is destined for failure. If it isn't a hit in Xmas 2008 and 2009 then the consumer will have rejected it as an also ran. I don't think the studios, the retailers or the CE companies are going to let that happen if they can help it at all.
Can anyone name a format with that kind of support behind it failing in the CE market place? DIVX, UMD, DVDA. SACD (did I miss any?) didn't have the same level of widespread support as Blu-Ray.
Like I've said Laserdisc went on for 20 years that way. The reason DVD was such a great success. Size, dramatic picture quality difference when compared to the leading media VHS, and durabiltiy. And with the previous success with the CD in audio it was time for a change. Between BR and DVD the difference isn't as noticable to the average consumer. Also DVD only came out 10 years ago so it's much sooner for a change in the major format of choice. Also people have invested heavily in DVD for the last 10 years. So it will have to depend on other selling points. Lowering of the price of both discs and players would help alot.
So, who's going to take their marbles and go home?
?? Are you gonna stop posting?
Some of us told you from the beginning, but you wouldn't listen, you kept up the "La La La, not listening" mantra, and you know you "won" that, in terms of going "I'm not listening" YOU won! but now your trying to go one better, your trying to turn this into the BD Vs Camera Lens thread.
Well I have to tell you, in terms of optical media BD has Camera Lenses beat HANDS down, I just hope this time, now that someones trying to tell you again, that you will listen.
PLEASE, don't make the mistake of trying to win the "La La La" title for a second time.
BD is a far better optical media format than CLs ever will be!
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...39/ai_59426634
Here is one potential milestone for Blu-Ray success by Feb 2010:
5M standalone players total
5,000 titles
70 different players, 30 different brands
average price of $298 with sale prices at the $199 mark (during Xmas 2009)
These are the DVD numbers where it was declared one of the most successful product launches in CE history.
I didn't put Feb 2009 because I don't think Blu-Ray will reach these milestones this year. You may not agree with counting the "start" as when HD-DVD died but if Blu-ray can reach these numbers in the next two years it will be hard for anyone to argue that it failed.
Interesting figures.
Interesting figures.
" Potential "
It would be nice but we'll see. And they'd better get down to $ 199.00 before then if they want it to fly.
" Potential "
It would be nice but we'll see. And they'd better get down to $ 199.00 before then if they want it to fly.
"they better"
Ive seen HD-DVDers say I will go format neutral when BD players hit $500, then a while later it was $400, then a while later it was 300, then 250 and now its $199.
Why don't they just admit that they don't want the format at ANY cost.
I decided that as I was going to get a PS3 anyway, I would support BD ONLY, format neutrality is and was a waste of the consumer/early adopters time, money and effort. all films on one format, worked for VHS, worked for DVD.
Meanwhile the BD folks Ive seen said G thats expensive.. followed by I've bought one, or Ive decided to get a PS3.
Buying one format, or the intent to buy one format, means you don't have to wear the schizoid hat, but those HD-DVDers who "claimed" to want to go format neutral and DIDN'T are still wearing the schizoid hat with pride, not wanting to admit that they will get BD "when its cheaper" despite the fact that they were ready and willing to buy a HD-DVD player that was MORE expensive THEN than a BD player is NOW. they need to to get past the "BD must DIE in order for HDM to win" hurdle.
Those who want a format go get it, those that don't should quite whinging about the other one AT ANY PRICE.
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The numbers will be interesting if reached or even "almost" reached, but then some see the iPhone as a failed product as well, yet it is outpacing the original iPod sales by MILLIONS of units.
So comparing "similar" products sales figures is no lone indication of success or failure, is it.
VHS was endemic, no-one thought "expensive DVD and not a recorder" would take over either, apart from the early adopters, roughly HALF of whom have been wrong this time around about HD-DVD.
HALF of those early adopters seem to want BD to fail AS WELL, because SD-DVD players are seen as "endemic" THIS TIME ROUND.
Time will tell, simple really.
Blu-ray disc movie sales across Europe have eclipsed the 2 million barrier a mere two months after reaching the 1 million unit mark.
Blu-ray movie sales in Europe total 2.4 million according to the latest figures from Media Control Gfk International. 79 per cent of the high-definition movie discs bought in 2008 to date were on the Blu-ray format.
"DVD-Video was first introduced into Western Europe in 1997, and the following year some 230,000 DVD players were installed and 2 million discs were sold through," the BDA said.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...98272&page=127
According to Hollywood Reporter, last week's numbers
81:19 BD
For week ending Feb. 10. Source: Nielsen Videoscan
http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquir...render-blu-ray
THE DARK satanic rumour mill has turned out a yarn which suggests that HD-DVD's number one backer, Toshiba, is about to throw in the towel and surrender the format wars to Blu-Ray.
Over the last few weeks there have been significant defections to Blu-Ray and each time it has been Toshiba who has piped up for the standard's future.
Well now according to that well-known tech magazine, the Hollywood Reporter even Toshiba has admited that HD-DVD's goose is not only cooked, but served in a fruit sauce and mostly been eaten.
A deep throat within Toshiba told the Reporter that Toshiba will be abandoning its high-definition format.
Officially the outfit has not said a dickie-bird about it yet. The last thing we heard was a statement that Tosh felt HD DVD was the best format for consumers, given the value and consistent quality inherent in our player offerings.
Toshiba has done all it can. It has spent millions on price reductions, advertising and everything. But it still cannot get the studios to back the standard. If it is any consolation, the only people who seem to be splashing out on Blu-Ray disks are the owners of Sony's PS3.
Toshiba to drop HD DVD, sources say
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/...d0bfb0c25aa58d
The format war has turned into a format death watch.
Toshiba is widely expected to pull the plug on its HD DVD format sometime in the coming weeks, reliable industry sources say, after a rash of retail defections that followed Warner Home Video's announcement in early January that it would support only the rival Blu-ray Disc format after May.
Officially, no decision has been made, insists Jodi Sally, vp of marketing for Toshiba America Consumer Products. "Based on its technological advancements, we continue to believe HD DVD is the best format for consumers, given the value and consistent quality inherent in our player offerings," she said.
But she hinted that something's in the air. "Given the market developments in the past month," she said, "Toshiba will continue to study the market impact and the value proposition for consumers, particularly in light of our recent price reductions on all HD DVD players."
Immediately after the Warner announcement, the HD DVD North American Promotional Group canceled its Consumer Electronics Show presentation. The following week, data collected by the NPD Group revealed Blu-ray took in 93% of all hardware sales for that week.
Toshiba subsequently fired back, drastically cutting its HD DVD player prices by as much as half, effective Jan. 15. But a hoped-for consumer sales surge never materialized; retail point-of-sale data collected by the NPD Group for the week ending Jan. 26 still showed Blu-ray Disc players ahead by a wide margin, 65% to 28%.
Software sales have declined as well. The latest Nielsen VideoScan First Alert sales data show the top-selling Blu-ray Disc title for the week, Sony Pictures Home Entertainment's "Across the Universe," sold more than three times as many copies the week ending Feb. 10 as the top HD DVD seller, Universal Studios Home Entertainment's "Elizabeth: The Golden Age." Blu-ray Disc titles also accounted for 81% of all high-def disc sales for the week, with HD DVD at just 19%.
Toshiba had been pitching its discounted HD DVD players toward the standard DVD crowd as well as high-def enthusiasts, noting in its ad message that the new players would make DVDs look a lot better as well. And as a last-ditch effort, the company ran an ad during the Super Bowl -- a 30-second spot that reportedly cost $2.7 million.
But in the end, sources say, the substantial loss Toshiba is incurring with each HD DVD player sold -- a figure sources say could be as high as several hundred dollars -- coupled with a series of high-profile retail defections has driven the company to at last concede defeat.
"An announcement is coming soon," said one source close to the HD DVD camp. "It could be a matter of weeks."
Microsoft is the other big player in the HD DVD equation. Last fall when Paramount Home Entertainment announced it was dropping its dual-format strategy and would release titles only in HD DVD, giving that side a brief resurgence, a pitch to journalists for interviews came from a Microsoft email address.
Several phone calls to Kevin Collins, Microsoft's normally accessible "HD DVD evangelist," were not returned. Nor were calls to Ken Graffeo, the Universal Studios Home Entertainment executive who doubles as co-president of the HD DVD North American Promotional Group.
When Warner abandoned HD DVD in January, the format was left with just two of the six major studios backing it, Universal Studios Home Entertainment and Paramount Home Entertainment. Blu-ray support among independents is rising. ADV Films, Tai Seng Entertainment, Topics Entertainment and National Geographic have all confirmed they are going Blu-ray exclusive, while more than one indie that was releasing titles just on HD DVD, including Surround Records and Opus Arte, will now offer Blu-ray as well.
This week, two key retailers, Best Buy and Netflix Inc., both got off the fence and threw their support behind Blu-ray exclusively, citing widespread studio support and consumer preference. Both companies said Warner's decision was a turning point in their strategies.
"We've listened to our customers, and we are responding," said Best Buy president and COO Brian Dunn.
Netflix spokesperson Steve Swasey said it appeared the format war had been won by Blu-ray for the benefit of everyone.
"We wanted to put an exclamation point behind that," he said.
Industry observers are closely watching Amazon, but there's been no movement, other than a 50% off sale for 150 HD DVD titles, including "Transformers," "Zodiac" and "Stardust."
Blockbuster Inc. last summer already decided to offer only Blu-ray Disc titles at its company-owned rental stores.
Wow...I wonder how long it will be before the HD DVD faithful here will comment on how viable a medium HD DVD still is if indeed Toshiba pulls the plug?
Interesting news to say the least. HD DVD's goose is cooked.
http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-9873029-7.html
Things have gone from bad to worse for HD DVD in the space of one week.
Wal-Mart announced Friday morning that it, too, has chosen a side in the battle for high-definition video supremacy: by June it will only stock Blu-ray Disc players.
(Credit: Crave UK)A buyer in Wal-Mart's video division wrote this morning on her Wal-Mart Checkout blog that the retail giant had made the decision following Netflix and Best Buy's high-profile announcements that they will exclusively stock Blu-ray products.
Wrote Susan Chronister of Wal-Mart: "By June Wal-Mart will only be carrying Blu-ray movies and hardware machines, and of course standard-def movies, DVD players, and up-convert players."
"So," she continues, not mincing words, "if you bought the HD (DVD) player like me, I'd retire it to the bedroom, kid's playroom, or give it to your parents to play their John Wayne standard-def movies, and make space for a BD player..."
That might be the best option at this point, as the dominoes keep falling in Blu-ray's favor. While Netflix and Best Buy were pretty damning evidence that the end was near, now it's glaringly obvious: it's over for HD DVD. Now, that doesn't necessarily mean that consumers will automatically start buying Blu-ray players. As mentioned many times before here, prices will have to continue to fall on both Blu-ray players and packaged media for there to be any sort of mainstream adoption of the format.
There are rumors that Toshiba might soon be declaring defeat: The Hollywood Reporter has sources telling it that Toshiba, the main backer of the HD DVD, might drop its allegiance with the format in the next few weeks.
Toshiba denies it, but stay tuned. There's likely much more to come in this drama.
Damn...Wal-mart. Now J6P will have a clear choice and I don't see any chance whatsoever for HD DVD now. I think I can comfortably say it is over. Over. And thank goodness. Hopefully now we can all just start enjoying high-def movies via Blu-ray and wait for the day it makes its inclusion in the next Mac.
I would just like to say thanks to Warner Bros. for choosing a side and ending this long, terrible battle. Now there can be focus from everyone on one medium and motivate J6P to get behind it.
I agree, and though I thought I'd never say this, given their neutered encodes on BD thus far...but Warner, you rock! Thanks for causing the chain reaction that was sorely needed for the best format to take on a potential role of mass adoption. I commend them for siding with the consumer, and making it their best interest that high-def continue and potentially reach the masses.
http://money.cnn.com/2008/02/15/tech...ion=2008021511
Wal-mart has prepared the grave for HD DVD.