No you took my point in the wrong way. I'm not talking about markets. I'm talking about Apple's design culture. The reason the iPod has been so dominant isn't simply because of an immature mp3 market its because of Apple's unyielding culture of design. Which not only applies to the iPod but all Apple products.
Apple has become great at redesigning, refreshing, and reenergizing sales of Mac's as well as iPod and will bring that exact same design philosophy to the iPhone.
Great design, and more importantly, a company having design in its DNA, are awesome advantages... it's a big part of why I use a Mac and own iPods. That said though, design, by itself, ensures little. You still have to listen to your customers.
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Not entirely, as usual you only tell part of the story. iPod sales were not flat they grew by 5% which is far less than the 50% growth of 2006. By contrast 2006 did not have the iPhone to cannibalize iPod sales either.
Revenue is a different story, revenue between 2006 and 2007 remained relatively the same.
Yawn. Going from 50% sales growth to 5% is quite an amazing flattening out. Not perfectly flat, but close enough for rock n' roll. If you put a molehill next to a mountain, it tends to look flat.
And of course, as you stated, revenue was flat... perhaps even down, if inflation is taken into account. So we're quibbling over very little.
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I have not seen any financial expert place Apple's stock price and iPhone sales in the same sentence. Only you do.
WOW... you're really out of the loop, aren't you? Nearly everyone who's an investor understands that much of Apple's stock price run-up during 2007 was due to the potential of the iPhone, and, unfortunately, much of the unwinding of Apple's stock price in '08 has been due to investors being nervous about the iPhone's growth prospects going forward. This isn't even argued seriously by anyone with skin in the game that I know.
But, I know you won't agree, and will try to blame the tremendous dip in Apple's stock price 100% on the slowing of the US economy (I agree that it was a contributing factor, but its far from the whole enchilada). I'm familiar with your mindset, so let's just cut to the chase, as this is how it would play out:
Teno: Apple is GOD! They DON'T EVER MAKE MISTAKES! It's all part of a MASTER PLAN!
Baggins: Well, here's a lot of quotes and links from various analysts explaining that...
Teno: THEY'RE JUST ANALYSTS! They KNOW NOTHING!
Baggins: Actually, as a group, and even sometimes individually, they have a lot of influence, and they impact the market in a pretty big way a lot of the time. And, more importantly, the investing community did seem to agree with them, and/or didn't like what they saw in the data (Euro iPhone sales below expectation thus far, no 3G model for awhile, iPod sales essentially flat year-over-year, growth prospects in the near- and medium-term not good, etc. etc.) as you can see by Apple losing, oh, I dunno... about $50 BILLION in market cap. That's quite a huge impact for "knowing nothing".
Teno: Oh YEAH?!? Well, HERE'S some links of my own! THOSE analysts don't agree with you!
Baggins: Oh, you mean guys like Wu and Munster? Yeah, the Apple cheerleader analysts would rate the stock a 'Buy' even if Jobs held a press conference saying he was switching to the Amiga OS and Cupertino HQ was in flames.
Teno: Oh, so YOUR analysts are right, and mine are WRONG, is that it?
Baggins: Yeah, pretty much. Its called 'reality'. Experience it sometime. Duh.
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Apple did not release official revenue numbers from Europe [Baggins: Actually, I was more interested in PROFIT numbers Teno, since you keep saying over and over that Apple's making HUGE profits on the iPhone in Europe, but never provide official numbers.] But lets see......
Apple of course would not have made all of this 179 million in revenue. Most of these phones were told through carriers or retailers and VAT is included. But Apple I would imagine made the lions share of it.
Teno, Teno, Teno... what did I say earlier?:
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Well, let's stop guessing and see some Euro PROFIT numbers then, Tenerino. After all, you adamantly refused to believe me when I said, prior to the release of 'official numbers', that Apple's Euro iPhone sales were slow. Then official numbers did come out, of course, confirming what I said.
So, I'm gonna pull a Teno and say, "Where's the official numbers, Teno?". Lalalalala, can't HEAR YOU without official numbers.
Re-quoted for Truth.
Edit- Look Teno, it's always fun to argue with you, because you are my favorite cuckoo-crazy-bananas-Apple shill,( ) but honestly, it does get a bit old. Unlike guys like Solip and Mel, you seem incapable of formulating any real argument beyond "Apple is always right". Its kind of like arguing with an Apple press release. Mel, Solip, and others, at least, bring something more to the table than that, even if I disagree with them sometimes.
I guess what I'm saying is, I don't need to hear the Apple party line too much because I already know the Apple party line quite well. I think I used to be, like you, quite rabidly pro-Apple (still am, I guess, just in a different way), and blind to the possibility that Apple could ever be wrong, either in plan or execution. And it was a mindset that served me well during Apple's darkest days in the mid '90s, when I would routinely help shoot down hordes of Windows trolls on various boards. You really DID need to be a zealot back then. \
But that was then, this is now. Apple's survival isn't in question, and it doesn't NEED zealots or shills anymore. What it needs is people to tell it like it is, even if the result is not always flattering to Apple. 'Yes men' attitudes don't help a healthy corporation, they drag it down.
You will deny it until doomsday, but nothing changes the fact that, yes, Apple has definitely made some mistakes in Europe regarding the iPhone. I am hoping they fix them as soon as possible, and do not repeat them in Asia, so I say something... because I care about Apple. If I HATED Apple, then I would say, "Oh, don't worry, everything's great, don't change a darned thing, love ya."
Maybe what I'm saying will sink in, maybe it won't. But I hope you understand me a bit better now.
Oh, and I'm done with the thread. Shill away to your heart's content.
Edit- Look Teno, it's always fun to argue with you, because you are my favorite cuckoo-crazy-bananas-Apple shill,( ) but honestly, it does get a bit old. Unlike guys like Solip and Mel, you seem incapable of formulating any real argument beyond "Apple is always right"
I haven't said Apple is always right. I've only said your predictions of doom and gloom for the iPhone are wrong. Their is a distinct difference.
There isn't much more to say, your last post contains no counter-argument of any substance only insults.
Comments
Great post!
Isn't that what some people want to hear ?
Isn't that what some people want to hear ?
It depends on whether you are serious or not. Some people haven't got a clue. Are you one of those?
No you took my point in the wrong way. I'm not talking about markets. I'm talking about Apple's design culture. The reason the iPod has been so dominant isn't simply because of an immature mp3 market its because of Apple's unyielding culture of design. Which not only applies to the iPod but all Apple products.
Apple has become great at redesigning, refreshing, and reenergizing sales of Mac's as well as iPod and will bring that exact same design philosophy to the iPhone.
Great design, and more importantly, a company having design in its DNA, are awesome advantages... it's a big part of why I use a Mac and own iPods. That said though, design, by itself, ensures little. You still have to listen to your customers.
Not entirely, as usual you only tell part of the story. iPod sales were not flat they grew by 5% which is far less than the 50% growth of 2006. By contrast 2006 did not have the iPhone to cannibalize iPod sales either.
Revenue is a different story, revenue between 2006 and 2007 remained relatively the same.
Yawn. Going from 50% sales growth to 5% is quite an amazing flattening out. Not perfectly flat, but close enough for rock n' roll. If you put a molehill next to a mountain, it tends to look flat.
And of course, as you stated, revenue was flat... perhaps even down, if inflation is taken into account. So we're quibbling over very little.
I have not seen any financial expert place Apple's stock price and iPhone sales in the same sentence. Only you do.
WOW... you're really out of the loop, aren't you?
But, I know you won't agree, and will try to blame the tremendous dip in Apple's stock price 100% on the slowing of the US economy (I agree that it was a contributing factor, but its far from the whole enchilada). I'm familiar with your mindset, so let's just cut to the chase, as this is how it would play out:
Teno: Apple is GOD! They DON'T EVER MAKE MISTAKES! It's all part of a MASTER PLAN!
Baggins: The stock price is in flames, Teno.
Teno: ECONOMY! Nothing else! PROVE it's something else!
Baggins: Well, here's a lot of quotes and links from various analysts explaining that...
Teno: THEY'RE JUST ANALYSTS! They KNOW NOTHING!
Baggins: Actually, as a group, and even sometimes individually, they have a lot of influence, and they impact the market in a pretty big way a lot of the time. And, more importantly, the investing community did seem to agree with them, and/or didn't like what they saw in the data (Euro iPhone sales below expectation thus far, no 3G model for awhile, iPod sales essentially flat year-over-year, growth prospects in the near- and medium-term not good, etc. etc.) as you can see by Apple losing, oh, I dunno... about $50 BILLION in market cap. That's quite a huge impact for "knowing nothing".
Teno: Oh YEAH?!? Well, HERE'S some links of my own! THOSE analysts don't agree with you!
Baggins: Oh, you mean guys like Wu and Munster? Yeah, the Apple cheerleader analysts would rate the stock a 'Buy' even if Jobs held a press conference saying he was switching to the Amiga OS and Cupertino HQ was in flames.
Teno: Oh, so YOUR analysts are right, and mine are WRONG, is that it?
Baggins: Yeah, pretty much. Its called 'reality'. Experience it sometime. Duh.
Apple did not release official revenue numbers from Europe [Baggins: Actually, I was more interested in PROFIT numbers Teno, since you keep saying over and over that Apple's making HUGE profits on the iPhone in Europe, but never provide official numbers.] But lets see......
190,000 @ 269 pounds + 90,000 @ 399 Euros + 70,000 @ 399 Euros = $179,520,000 USD [that's REVENUE, Teno, not profit --B]
Apple of course would not have made all of this 179 million in revenue. Most of these phones were told through carriers or retailers and VAT is included. But Apple I would imagine made the lions share of it.
Teno, Teno, Teno... what did I say earlier?:
Well, let's stop guessing and see some Euro PROFIT numbers then, Tenerino. After all, you adamantly refused to believe me when I said, prior to the release of 'official numbers', that Apple's Euro iPhone sales were slow. Then official numbers did come out, of course, confirming what I said.
So, I'm gonna pull a Teno and say, "Where's the official numbers, Teno?". Lalalalala, can't HEAR YOU without official numbers.
Re-quoted for Truth.
Edit- Look Teno, it's always fun to argue with you, because you are my favorite cuckoo-crazy-bananas-Apple shill,(
I guess what I'm saying is, I don't need to hear the Apple party line too much because I already know the Apple party line quite well. I think I used to be, like you, quite rabidly pro-Apple (still am, I guess, just in a different way), and blind to the possibility that Apple could ever be wrong, either in plan or execution. And it was a mindset that served me well during Apple's darkest days in the mid '90s, when I would routinely help shoot down hordes of Windows trolls on various boards. You really DID need to be a zealot back then.
But that was then, this is now. Apple's survival isn't in question, and it doesn't NEED zealots or shills anymore. What it needs is people to tell it like it is, even if the result is not always flattering to Apple. 'Yes men' attitudes don't help a healthy corporation, they drag it down.
You will deny it until doomsday, but nothing changes the fact that, yes, Apple has definitely made some mistakes in Europe regarding the iPhone. I am hoping they fix them as soon as possible, and do not repeat them in Asia, so I say something... because I care about Apple. If I HATED Apple, then I would say, "Oh, don't worry, everything's great, don't change a darned thing, love ya."
Maybe what I'm saying will sink in, maybe it won't. But I hope you understand me a bit better now.
Oh, and I'm done with the thread. Shill away to your heart's content.
.
Edit- Look Teno, it's always fun to argue with you, because you are my favorite cuckoo-crazy-bananas-Apple shill,( ) but honestly, it does get a bit old. Unlike guys like Solip and Mel, you seem incapable of formulating any real argument beyond "Apple is always right"
I haven't said Apple is always right. I've only said your predictions of doom and gloom for the iPhone are wrong. Their is a distinct difference.
There isn't much more to say, your last post contains no counter-argument of any substance only insults.
...my brothers and I will be introducing him to the glory that is American tackle football.
.
Rugby for wimps, you mean.