No that is not what you said. This is what you said:
"I believe that all the carriers share their 3g with each other."
That is what I said in post #122. However, I meant to have said that they share towers which I stated in my subsequent response to you in #126.
I never said sharing their network. I know they don't. I do know that they all lease from the same companies that build the towers. How many towers support more than one cell network, if they do, I don't know.
The tests do show a very comparable display between the 2.75G iPhone and a 3G non-iPhone, but I would think a 3G iPhone would easily best other 3G smartphones. If it's great enough, Apple may use such a comparison in the keynote.
Yep (well, in cases where the non-iPhone phone has a pretty slow browser and cpu, anyway).
Not to mention that 3G is getting faster all the time. HSDPA is faster than UMTS, for example, and HSPA+ (or 'HSPA Evolved', or whatever they're going to call it) will be faster still than HSDPA.
On the EVDO side of things, Rev A was faster than Rev 0, and Rev B will be faster still.
EDGE (and GPRS) are looking slower and slower all the time. It's kind of like dialup vs broadband in that respect... dialup is never going to improve that much, but broadband will continue to do so.
I believe that all the carriers share their 3g with each other. Exact coverage by each carrier is a little convoluted, but I suspect that it is a reflection of where they have services already available.
In the US, no, all carriers do not share their 3G with each other.
For one thing, there are technological issues. Verizon and Sprint use a 3G technology called EVDO, while ATT (and T-Mobile, which is just now beginning to get its 3G network up) uses UMTS/HSDPA. The two technologies are not compatible with one another.
Also, there can be issues with the roaming agreements, in that not every carrier automatically has a roaming agreement with all other carriers in all regions, even where technologies are compatible. It's more of a case-by-case and 'how-good-a-deal-can-be-struck' sort of thing.
But I wouldn't expect jack sheeite 'til June, at earliest. Even with Jobs pistol-whipping his engineering teams..
I agree. We should also know about it because Apple will want to present it before the FCC does. Not 6 months ahead of time, but 6-8 weeks ahead for sure. I think it took 3 months last time.
I'm also wagering that a 3G iPhone could sell 10M in 6 months.
No GPS for me. I have a stand alone unit for that. The Google Maps locator is good enough for a phone. I don't need an costly chips that will add bulk to the iPhone and drain the battery in 30 minutes when it's on.
So don't turn it on, besides they aren't as costly as you would think. Obviously I wouldn't want one either if it added bulk, but that may be just another one of the reasons why they didn't add it "yet".
I agree. We should also know about it because Apple will want to present it before the FCC does. Not 6 months ahead of time, but 6-8 weeks ahead for sure. I think it took 3 months last time.
It was six weeks last time... FCC approval for the iPhone was May 17, actual release, June 30.
Quote:
I'm also wagering that a 3G iPhone could sell 10M in 6 months.
That seems pretty optimistic, especially considering that the iPhone's strongest market, the US, is entering a recession. \
3G will definitely help quite a bit, especially in Europe, but I wouldn't expect 'magic bullet' -type numbers. Still, timely release of a 3G iPhone may well be the 'make or break' that determines whether or not Apple meets its '10 million iPhones sold in 12 months' goal.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Apple's usual business model was that 6 months after releasing a product they would offer more for less. Not more for more. There was never a subsidize and then drop.
Who made this rule? Do you only come here to make up complaints?
Quote:
But I wouldn't expect jack sheeite 'til June, at earliest. Even with Jobs pistol-whipping his engineering teams..
Possibly, we aren't entirely sure of the iPhone refresh rate, but I suspect Apple will be pretty aggressive with updates. I'm not expecting it anytime soon. Just long as it comes this year.
Who made this rule? Do you only come here to make up complaints?
No, that's MY job, allegedly. Get it straight, Teno.
Quote:
Possibly, we aren't entirely sure of the iPhone refresh rate, but I suspect Apple will be pretty aggressive with updates. I'm not expecting it anytime soon. Just long as it comes this year.
I like my track record with predictions so far, T.
But I'd love it if Stevie would prove me wrong and bust one out by April or May. We can pretty much kiss February and March off already (for the US at least), considering that there's been no FCC approval yet for a 3G model.
Possibly, we aren't entirely sure of the iPhone refresh rate, but I suspect Apple will be pretty aggressive with updates.
Now that's funny.
The iPhone is essentially unchanged since it's introduction 8(?) months ago. When are you expecting Apple to be pretty aggressive?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell
I'm not expecting it anytime soon. Just long as it comes this year.
Ah, that kind of aggressive - about once in 18 months.
Come on, the phone hardware was long in the tooth when it came out and the software updates so far have been pretty meh. It just won't be such a hot seller when it's 18 months old. They'll have to be a lot more aggressive either in pricing or updates.
In the US, no, all carriers do not share their 3G with each other.
For one thing, there are technological issues. Verizon and Sprint use a 3G technology called EVDO, while ATT (and T-Mobile, which is just now beginning to get its 3G network up) uses UMTS/HSDPA. The two technologies are not compatible with one another.
Also, there can be issues with the roaming agreements, in that not every carrier automatically has a roaming agreement with all other carriers in all regions, even where technologies are compatible. It's more of a case-by-case and 'how-good-a-deal-can-be-struck' sort of thing.
.
Your comment it related to an old post that I hope was clarified in subsequent one, esp 142.
However, perhaps somebody can clarify the following.
Most cell towers in the US are built/owned by 4 independant companies, e.g., American Tower, Crowne, etc., and each lease them to all the cell phone companies
Most cell phone companies don't build/own cell towers, each lease them from all the cell tower companies
The cell companies' create their networks in part by leasing towers (which also maintain them)
Most of the major cell phone companies service the same major markets (cities)
Questions:
Can the same tower be used (shared) by more than one network?
Since the size of the network is dependent on the number of towers used, why don't cell phone companies, particularly the largest one, use those figures to support 'superior' coverage?
Or are all cell phone companies hooked to the same towers or the same number of towers?
The iPhone is essentially unchanged since it's introduction 8(?) months ago. When are you expecting Apple to be pretty aggressive?
There have been three software updates with major functionality changes, the fourth coming in a couple of weeks. Now the storage has been upped to 16GB, currently no other phone offers that amount of internal storage. You call that unchanged?
The phone as it is has sold 4 million units in four countries limited to four carriers. In 8 months the iPhone has captured .9% of the worlds browser usage. Small number but more than any other phone, and just shy of some desktop broswers. In that time has captured 28% of the US phone market second only to RIM. With only one model has captured 3rd place in world smartphone marketshare behind RIM and Nokia, Both sell multiple models of smartphones. The iPhone by itself has more than likely sold as much or outsold any one of RIM or Nokia's single smartphones in the same quarter.
Quote:
Come on, the phone hardware was long in the tooth when it came out and the software updates so far have been pretty meh. It just won't be such a hot seller when it's 18 months old. They'll have to be a lot more aggressive either in pricing or updates.
You keep talking about iPhone hardware and have never provided any evidence. The iPhone dissections revealed what was inside. The Samsung ARM chip was brand new. No phone provided 8GB of internal storage and still few do today. At the time no other phone used a 3.5" 160ppi screen, very few still do today. As Apple owns the multi-touch technology no one else has that, multi-touch is hardware as well as sotware. The only part you can really call "old technology" may be EDGE. The standard may be aging but Apple used a new radio chip.
Seeing as most phones don't provide much of this functionality or provide it as well. Which part of this exactly is old technology?
Come on, the phone hardware was long in the tooth when it came out and the software updates so far have been pretty meh. It just won't be such a hot seller when it's 18 months old. They'll have to be a lot more aggressive either in pricing or updates.
Actually, Aegis, just because the phone doesn't have some dubious features you demand doesn't make the hardware "long in the tooth".
Features don't denote advances, they just mean that there are added features.
Phone technology has usually been slow to change. It's actually the iPhone that's causing other manufacturers to rush new features out.
I don't consider bloated feature sets that are clumsy to use to be advanced, just bloated.
It's the oft criticized MS Office syndrome, 80% of the features are only used by 10% of the users. The rest neither need nor want them, but are forced to have them for other reasons.
Ipods have been criticized for not having FM, but almost no one cares, or would use it anyway, so the iPhone is said to lack features. Who cares except a very small minority?
The iPhone is essentially unchanged since it's introduction 8(?) months ago. When are you expecting Apple to be pretty aggressive?
Considering that they keep on confidently predicting those 10 million sales, I'd say it's a good bet that the iPhone will see some aggressive revisions soon. You're saying that since they haven't aggressively updated the iphone yet, they never will? That's highly illogical.
There have been three software updates with major functionality changes, the fourth coming in a couple of weeks. Now the storage has been upped to 16GB, currently no other phone offers that amount of internal storage. You call that unchanged?
No, they've had 3 bug fix releases to add features which should have been there in the first place. Bumping the storage space is a minor change also. YouTube videos and iTunes in Starbucks - meh!
I'm hoping the SDK update in Feb brings some better software like a ToDo list for one, preferably tied to Leopard's event/todo storage so it works with CulturedCode's 'Things' too. How can they miss out one of the few things that actually would be handy to carry around with you?
Oh, and I want ssh too, but I realise that's of limited general interest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell
The phone as it is has sold 4 million units in four countries limited to four carriers. In 8 months the iPhone has captured .9% of the worlds browser usage. Small number but more than any other phone, and just shy of some desktop broswers. In that time has captured 28% of the US phone market second only to RIM. With only one model has captured 3rd place in world smartphone marketshare behind RIM and Nokia, Both sell multiple models of smartphones. The iPhone by itself has more than likely sold as much or outsold any one of RIM or Nokia's single smartphones in the same quarter.
For each of your selectively chosen stats there's plenty of counter stats. It's good to see the USA finally is picking up with smartphone sales but as ever it's low hanging fruit if you pardon the pun - no competition and in walks Apple. Have you seen the latest Orange France stats yet? They only sold 20,000 in January. 20,000 in one of Europe's biggest countries.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell
You keep talking about iPhone hardware and have never provided any evidence. The iPhone dissections revealed what was inside. The Samsung ARM chip was brand new. No phone provided 8GB of internal storage and still few do today. At the time no other phone used a 3.5" 160ppi screen, very few still do today. As Apple owns the multi-touch technology no one else has that, multi-touch is hardware as well as sotware. The only part you can really call "old technology" may be EDGE. The standard may be aging but Apple used a new radio chip.
Which is explicitly why I said the PHONE hardware was ancient. The rest of the hardware is pretty cool, hobbled by shit phone hardware. It's like releasing a MacBook Pro with an ATi Rage 128 chipset.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
Actually, Aegis, just because the phone doesn't have some dubious features you demand doesn't make the hardware "long in the tooth".
I was explicitly bitching about the 2G phone chip but add the shitty camera.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
Phone technology has usually been slow to change. It's actually the iPhone that's causing other manufacturers to rush new features out.
I don't consider bloated feature sets that are clumsy to use to be advanced, just bloated.
It's the oft criticized MS Office syndrome, 80% of the features are only used by 10% of the users. The rest neither need nor want them, but are forced to have them for other reasons.
I agree but in this case the iPhone has those features - ie. a radio chip and a camera - they're just poor implementations for such an expensive phone.
IMHO you're better off now buying an iPod Touch since they added all the useful stuff out of the iPhone and the phone part of the iPhone is better provided by a £50 no contract camera phone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell
Considering that they keep on confidently predicting those 10 million sales, I'd say it's a good bet that the iPhone will see some aggressive revisions soon. You're saying that since they haven't aggressively updated the iphone yet, they never will? That's highly illogical.
No, I was asking Teno when he expects them to aggressively update the iPhone and he was suggesting 'sometime before the end of the year'. I agree with you - it'll have to be soon.
No, they've had 3 bug fix releases to add features which should have been there in the first place.
Come on Aegis you are going way out of way reaching for criticism. Bug fixes are when something doesn't work correctly. So far the major functions on the iPhone have worked fine.
Much of the new functionality wasn't even available when the iPhone was first introduced.
Quote:
How can they miss out one of the few things that actually would be handy to carry around with you?
Yeah ToDo's is absolutely required of any phone...
Quote:
For each of your selectively chosen stats there's plenty of counter stats. It's good to see the USA finally is picking up with smartphone sales but as ever it's low hanging fruit if you pardon the pun - no competition and in walks Apple.
I wouldn't call the entrenched Windows Mobile and Palm "no competition."
Penetration of smartphones in Europe may have happened faster than in the US. But actual use of them beyond phone calls and texting has been no faster.
Quote:
Which is explicitly why I said the PHONE hardware was ancient. The rest of the hardware is pretty cool, hobbled by shit phone hardware.
You are talking in specs and theory. But in actual practice the iPhone in 8 months has captured .13% of the worlds browser share, more than any other phone. What good is the 3G in many other phones if it is rarely used?
Quote:
No, I was asking Teno when he expects them to aggressively update the iPhone and he was suggesting 'sometime before the end of the year'. I agree with you - it'll have to be soon.
I don't know when they will update the phone. I'm just saying they will do it.
Quote:
I was explicitly bitching about the 2G phone chip but add the shitty camera
Instead of buying the phone that meets your needs and enjoying life, you seem comfortable just to bitch about everything in regards to the iPhone in general.
Well what other phone would sell 20,000 units on one carrier at 339 Euros with a 49 Euro tariff? Bringing new customers to its carrier.
It's pretty disappointing no matter how you slice it, Teno. I'd stop arguing that particular point... frankly, that ship has sailed. \
Better pricing, 3G, MMS, better camera... it's all about solutions now, not trying to spin what are clearly disappointing Euro results.
I do still firmly believe that Apple CAN do well in Europe, with the right product and reasonable pricing. I just hope that the wait for said right product isn't too long.
I wouldn't call the entrenched Windows Mobile and Palm "no competition."
Depends where you are. In the US, you'd be correct to say that WM and Palm are a significant force, at least in sales. But elsewhere in the world, it seems to be all about Symbian and their 70-75% worldwide marketshare in smartphones.
WM, in comparison, has only about a 6% worldwide share... and that's with many years in the market, and the backing and considerable resources of the richest tech company in the world. Its no wonder that outside of the US, WM is kind of a laughingstock.
Palm? 1.6% worldwide smartphone share.
You gotta understand, the Euros will naturally tend to have a very different view than Americans on something like this. WM and Palm are a bit of a joke to them because WM and Palm aren't that successful outside of the US... more like "gnats dancing for Symbian's amusement" as one Euro friend of mine put it, though that is a bit harsh.
Quote:
You are talking in specs and theory. But in actual practice the iPhone in 8 months has captured .13% of the worlds browser share, more than any other phone. What good is the 3G in many other phones if it is rarely used?
Well, that's the cool thing about the iPhone, the browser and ease-of-use are a leap ahead, so you actually want to browse the 'net on the iPhone... assuming your connection isn't crap slow, compromising the user experience.
Therefore, on the iPhone, 3G would definitely be used, and the iPhone's browser share should explode. Win-win, wouldn't you say?
Quote:
Instead of buying the phone that meets your needs and enjoying life, you seem comfortable just to bitch about everything in regards to the iPhone in general.
No, I think he's simply seeing it through a Euro consumer's eyes. Competing phones over there have 3G, MMS, and 3.2 and 5.0 megapixel cameras. Sure, Apple has some very key things that said competition does NOT have (OS X, Safari, visual voicemail), but, given the price, a mixed scorecard does not seem to be attractive enough for Euro users to stampede towards the iPhone... as sales so far have borne out.
What aegis, and a lot of Euro posters, appear to be saying is, get rid of the iPhone's obvious weaknesses and the thing will be a lot more of an attractive buy over there. Because if you've got the iPhone's advantages and 3G and MMS and a good camera, what's not to love?
The price would still be high, likely, even if Apple does get a bit more aggressive there- but I think enough ppl are willing to shell out for something that would inarguably be 'the best', as a good iPhone 2.0 would be.
And besides, who are you to decide whose complaints are legitimate and whose are bitching? The world does not love a forum bully, Teno. Aegis' comments are every bit as legitimate as your own. \
Comments
No that is not what you said. This is what you said:
"I believe that all the carriers share their 3g with each other."
That is what I said in post #122. However, I meant to have said that they share towers which I stated in my subsequent response to you in #126.
I never said sharing their network. I know they don't. I do know that they all lease from the same companies that build the towers. How many towers support more than one cell network, if they do, I don't know.
The tests do show a very comparable display between the 2.75G iPhone and a 3G non-iPhone, but I would think a 3G iPhone would easily best other 3G smartphones. If it's great enough, Apple may use such a comparison in the keynote.
Yep (well, in cases where the non-iPhone phone has a pretty slow browser and cpu, anyway).
Not to mention that 3G is getting faster all the time. HSDPA is faster than UMTS, for example, and HSPA+ (or 'HSPA Evolved', or whatever they're going to call it) will be faster still than HSDPA.
On the EVDO side of things, Rev A was faster than Rev 0, and Rev B will be faster still.
EDGE (and GPRS) are looking slower and slower all the time. It's kind of like dialup vs broadband in that respect... dialup is never going to improve that much, but broadband will continue to do so.
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I believe that all the carriers share their 3g with each other. Exact coverage by each carrier is a little convoluted, but I suspect that it is a reflection of where they have services already available.
Perhaps a look at ATT and compare the others by specfic regions would help determine who is best and where. http://www.wireless.att.com/coverageviewer/
In the US, no, all carriers do not share their 3G with each other.
For one thing, there are technological issues. Verizon and Sprint use a 3G technology called EVDO, while ATT (and T-Mobile, which is just now beginning to get its 3G network up) uses UMTS/HSDPA. The two technologies are not compatible with one another.
Also, there can be issues with the roaming agreements, in that not every carrier automatically has a roaming agreement with all other carriers in all regions, even where technologies are compatible. It's more of a case-by-case and 'how-good-a-deal-can-be-struck' sort of thing.
.
Hopefully this means a 32GB/3G for the next iPhone refresh.
It'd be nice, wouldn't it?
But I wouldn't expect jack sheeite 'til June, at earliest. Even with Jobs pistol-whipping his engineering teams.
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But I wouldn't expect jack sheeite 'til June, at earliest. Even with Jobs pistol-whipping his engineering teams..
I agree. We should also know about it because Apple will want to present it before the FCC does. Not 6 months ahead of time, but 6-8 weeks ahead for sure. I think it took 3 months last time.
I'm also wagering that a 3G iPhone could sell 10M in 6 months.
No GPS for me. I have a stand alone unit for that. The Google Maps locator is good enough for a phone. I don't need an costly chips that will add bulk to the iPhone and drain the battery in 30 minutes when it's on.
So don't turn it on, besides they aren't as costly as you would think. Obviously I wouldn't want one either if it added bulk, but that may be just another one of the reasons why they didn't add it "yet".
I agree. We should also know about it because Apple will want to present it before the FCC does. Not 6 months ahead of time, but 6-8 weeks ahead for sure. I think it took 3 months last time.
It was six weeks last time... FCC approval for the iPhone was May 17, actual release, June 30.
I'm also wagering that a 3G iPhone could sell 10M in 6 months.
That seems pretty optimistic, especially considering that the iPhone's strongest market, the US, is entering a recession.
3G will definitely help quite a bit, especially in Europe, but I wouldn't expect 'magic bullet' -type numbers. Still, timely release of a 3G iPhone may well be the 'make or break' that determines whether or not Apple meets its '10 million iPhones sold in 12 months' goal.
.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Apple's usual business model was that 6 months after releasing a product they would offer more for less. Not more for more. There was never a subsidize and then drop.
Who made this rule? Do you only come here to make up complaints?
But I wouldn't expect jack sheeite 'til June, at earliest. Even with Jobs pistol-whipping his engineering teams..
Possibly, we aren't entirely sure of the iPhone refresh rate, but I suspect Apple will be pretty aggressive with updates. I'm not expecting it anytime soon. Just long as it comes this year.
Who made this rule? Do you only come here to make up complaints?
No, that's MY job, allegedly. Get it straight, Teno.
Possibly, we aren't entirely sure of the iPhone refresh rate, but I suspect Apple will be pretty aggressive with updates. I'm not expecting it anytime soon. Just long as it comes this year.
I like my track record with predictions so far, T.
But I'd love it if Stevie would prove me wrong and bust one out by April or May. We can pretty much kiss February and March off already (for the US at least), considering that there's been no FCC approval yet for a 3G model.
.
Possibly, we aren't entirely sure of the iPhone refresh rate, but I suspect Apple will be pretty aggressive with updates.
Now that's funny.
The iPhone is essentially unchanged since it's introduction 8(?) months ago. When are you expecting Apple to be pretty aggressive?
I'm not expecting it anytime soon. Just long as it comes this year.
Ah, that kind of aggressive - about once in 18 months.
Come on, the phone hardware was long in the tooth when it came out and the software updates so far have been pretty meh. It just won't be such a hot seller when it's 18 months old. They'll have to be a lot more aggressive either in pricing or updates.
In the US, no, all carriers do not share their 3G with each other.
For one thing, there are technological issues. Verizon and Sprint use a 3G technology called EVDO, while ATT (and T-Mobile, which is just now beginning to get its 3G network up) uses UMTS/HSDPA. The two technologies are not compatible with one another.
Also, there can be issues with the roaming agreements, in that not every carrier automatically has a roaming agreement with all other carriers in all regions, even where technologies are compatible. It's more of a case-by-case and 'how-good-a-deal-can-be-struck' sort of thing.
.
Your comment it related to an old post that I hope was clarified in subsequent one, esp 142.
However, perhaps somebody can clarify the following.
- Most cell towers in the US are built/owned by 4 independant companies, e.g., American Tower, Crowne, etc., and each lease them to all the cell phone companies
- Most cell phone companies don't build/own cell towers, each lease them from all the cell tower companies
- The cell companies' create their networks in part by leasing towers (which also maintain them)
- Most of the major cell phone companies service the same major markets (cities)
Questions:The iPhone is essentially unchanged since it's introduction 8(?) months ago. When are you expecting Apple to be pretty aggressive?
There have been three software updates with major functionality changes, the fourth coming in a couple of weeks. Now the storage has been upped to 16GB, currently no other phone offers that amount of internal storage. You call that unchanged?
The phone as it is has sold 4 million units in four countries limited to four carriers. In 8 months the iPhone has captured .9% of the worlds browser usage. Small number but more than any other phone, and just shy of some desktop broswers. In that time has captured 28% of the US phone market second only to RIM. With only one model has captured 3rd place in world smartphone marketshare behind RIM and Nokia, Both sell multiple models of smartphones. The iPhone by itself has more than likely sold as much or outsold any one of RIM or Nokia's single smartphones in the same quarter.
Come on, the phone hardware was long in the tooth when it came out and the software updates so far have been pretty meh. It just won't be such a hot seller when it's 18 months old. They'll have to be a lot more aggressive either in pricing or updates.
You keep talking about iPhone hardware and have never provided any evidence. The iPhone dissections revealed what was inside. The Samsung ARM chip was brand new. No phone provided 8GB of internal storage and still few do today. At the time no other phone used a 3.5" 160ppi screen, very few still do today. As Apple owns the multi-touch technology no one else has that, multi-touch is hardware as well as sotware. The only part you can really call "old technology" may be EDGE. The standard may be aging but Apple used a new radio chip.
Seeing as most phones don't provide much of this functionality or provide it as well. Which part of this exactly is old technology?
No, that's MY job, allegedly. Get it straight, Teno
No you didn't say that, it was from Teckstud.
I like my track record with predictions so far, T.
Doesn't too much matter to me. I have an iPhone and enjoy it.
N
Come on, the phone hardware was long in the tooth when it came out and the software updates so far have been pretty meh. It just won't be such a hot seller when it's 18 months old. They'll have to be a lot more aggressive either in pricing or updates.
Actually, Aegis, just because the phone doesn't have some dubious features you demand doesn't make the hardware "long in the tooth".
Features don't denote advances, they just mean that there are added features.
Phone technology has usually been slow to change. It's actually the iPhone that's causing other manufacturers to rush new features out.
I don't consider bloated feature sets that are clumsy to use to be advanced, just bloated.
It's the oft criticized MS Office syndrome, 80% of the features are only used by 10% of the users. The rest neither need nor want them, but are forced to have them for other reasons.
Ipods have been criticized for not having FM, but almost no one cares, or would use it anyway, so the iPhone is said to lack features. Who cares except a very small minority?
Now that's funny.
The iPhone is essentially unchanged since it's introduction 8(?) months ago. When are you expecting Apple to be pretty aggressive?
Considering that they keep on confidently predicting those 10 million sales, I'd say it's a good bet that the iPhone will see some aggressive revisions soon. You're saying that since they haven't aggressively updated the iphone yet, they never will? That's highly illogical.
There have been three software updates with major functionality changes, the fourth coming in a couple of weeks. Now the storage has been upped to 16GB, currently no other phone offers that amount of internal storage. You call that unchanged?
No, they've had 3 bug fix releases to add features which should have been there in the first place. Bumping the storage space is a minor change also. YouTube videos and iTunes in Starbucks - meh!
I'm hoping the SDK update in Feb brings some better software like a ToDo list for one, preferably tied to Leopard's event/todo storage so it works with CulturedCode's 'Things' too. How can they miss out one of the few things that actually would be handy to carry around with you?
Oh, and I want ssh too, but I realise that's of limited general interest.
The phone as it is has sold 4 million units in four countries limited to four carriers. In 8 months the iPhone has captured .9% of the worlds browser usage. Small number but more than any other phone, and just shy of some desktop broswers. In that time has captured 28% of the US phone market second only to RIM. With only one model has captured 3rd place in world smartphone marketshare behind RIM and Nokia, Both sell multiple models of smartphones. The iPhone by itself has more than likely sold as much or outsold any one of RIM or Nokia's single smartphones in the same quarter.
For each of your selectively chosen stats there's plenty of counter stats. It's good to see the USA finally is picking up with smartphone sales but as ever it's low hanging fruit if you pardon the pun - no competition and in walks Apple. Have you seen the latest Orange France stats yet? They only sold 20,000 in January. 20,000 in one of Europe's biggest countries.
You keep talking about iPhone hardware and have never provided any evidence. The iPhone dissections revealed what was inside. The Samsung ARM chip was brand new. No phone provided 8GB of internal storage and still few do today. At the time no other phone used a 3.5" 160ppi screen, very few still do today. As Apple owns the multi-touch technology no one else has that, multi-touch is hardware as well as sotware. The only part you can really call "old technology" may be EDGE. The standard may be aging but Apple used a new radio chip.
Which is explicitly why I said the PHONE hardware was ancient. The rest of the hardware is pretty cool, hobbled by shit phone hardware. It's like releasing a MacBook Pro with an ATi Rage 128 chipset.
Actually, Aegis, just because the phone doesn't have some dubious features you demand doesn't make the hardware "long in the tooth".
I was explicitly bitching about the 2G phone chip but add the shitty camera.
Phone technology has usually been slow to change. It's actually the iPhone that's causing other manufacturers to rush new features out.
I don't consider bloated feature sets that are clumsy to use to be advanced, just bloated.
It's the oft criticized MS Office syndrome, 80% of the features are only used by 10% of the users. The rest neither need nor want them, but are forced to have them for other reasons.
I agree but in this case the iPhone has those features - ie. a radio chip and a camera - they're just poor implementations for such an expensive phone.
IMHO you're better off now buying an iPod Touch since they added all the useful stuff out of the iPhone and the phone part of the iPhone is better provided by a £50 no contract camera phone.
Considering that they keep on confidently predicting those 10 million sales, I'd say it's a good bet that the iPhone will see some aggressive revisions soon. You're saying that since they haven't aggressively updated the iphone yet, they never will? That's highly illogical.
No, I was asking Teno when he expects them to aggressively update the iPhone and he was suggesting 'sometime before the end of the year'. I agree with you - it'll have to be soon.
No, they've had 3 bug fix releases to add features which should have been there in the first place.
Come on Aegis you are going way out of way reaching for criticism. Bug fixes are when something doesn't work correctly. So far the major functions on the iPhone have worked fine.
Much of the new functionality wasn't even available when the iPhone was first introduced.
How can they miss out one of the few things that actually would be handy to carry around with you?
Yeah ToDo's is absolutely required of any phone...
For each of your selectively chosen stats there's plenty of counter stats. It's good to see the USA finally is picking up with smartphone sales but as ever it's low hanging fruit if you pardon the pun - no competition and in walks Apple.
I wouldn't call the entrenched Windows Mobile and Palm "no competition."
Penetration of smartphones in Europe may have happened faster than in the US. But actual use of them beyond phone calls and texting has been no faster.
Which is explicitly why I said the PHONE hardware was ancient. The rest of the hardware is pretty cool, hobbled by shit phone hardware.
You are talking in specs and theory. But in actual practice the iPhone in 8 months has captured .13% of the worlds browser share, more than any other phone. What good is the 3G in many other phones if it is rarely used?
No, I was asking Teno when he expects them to aggressively update the iPhone and he was suggesting 'sometime before the end of the year'. I agree with you - it'll have to be soon.
I don't know when they will update the phone. I'm just saying they will do it.
I was explicitly bitching about the 2G phone chip but add the shitty camera
Instead of buying the phone that meets your needs and enjoying life, you seem comfortable just to bitch about everything in regards to the iPhone in general.
Have you seen the latest Orange France stats yet? They only sold 20,000 in January. 20,000 in one of Europe's biggest countries.
Well what other phone would sell 20,000 units on one carrier at 339 Euros with a 49 Euro tariff? Bringing new customers to its carrier.
Well what other phone would sell 20,000 units on one carrier at 339 Euros with a 49 Euro tariff? Bringing new customers to its carrier.
It's pretty disappointing no matter how you slice it, Teno. I'd stop arguing that particular point... frankly, that ship has sailed.
Better pricing, 3G, MMS, better camera... it's all about solutions now, not trying to spin what are clearly disappointing Euro results.
I do still firmly believe that Apple CAN do well in Europe, with the right product and reasonable pricing. I just hope that the wait for said right product isn't too long.
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I wouldn't call the entrenched Windows Mobile and Palm "no competition."
Depends where you are. In the US, you'd be correct to say that WM and Palm are a significant force, at least in sales. But elsewhere in the world, it seems to be all about Symbian and their 70-75% worldwide marketshare in smartphones.
WM, in comparison, has only about a 6% worldwide share... and that's with many years in the market, and the backing and considerable resources of the richest tech company in the world. Its no wonder that outside of the US, WM is kind of a laughingstock.
Palm? 1.6% worldwide smartphone share.
You gotta understand, the Euros will naturally tend to have a very different view than Americans on something like this. WM and Palm are a bit of a joke to them because WM and Palm aren't that successful outside of the US... more like "gnats dancing for Symbian's amusement" as one Euro friend of mine put it, though that is a bit harsh.
You are talking in specs and theory. But in actual practice the iPhone in 8 months has captured .13% of the worlds browser share, more than any other phone. What good is the 3G in many other phones if it is rarely used?
Well, that's the cool thing about the iPhone, the browser and ease-of-use are a leap ahead, so you actually want to browse the 'net on the iPhone... assuming your connection isn't crap slow, compromising the user experience.
Therefore, on the iPhone, 3G would definitely be used, and the iPhone's browser share should explode. Win-win, wouldn't you say?
Instead of buying the phone that meets your needs and enjoying life, you seem comfortable just to bitch about everything in regards to the iPhone in general.
No, I think he's simply seeing it through a Euro consumer's eyes. Competing phones over there have 3G, MMS, and 3.2 and 5.0 megapixel cameras. Sure, Apple has some very key things that said competition does NOT have (OS X, Safari, visual voicemail), but, given the price, a mixed scorecard does not seem to be attractive enough for Euro users to stampede towards the iPhone... as sales so far have borne out.
What aegis, and a lot of Euro posters, appear to be saying is, get rid of the iPhone's obvious weaknesses and the thing will be a lot more of an attractive buy over there. Because if you've got the iPhone's advantages and 3G and MMS and a good camera, what's not to love?
The price would still be high, likely, even if Apple does get a bit more aggressive there- but I think enough ppl are willing to shell out for something that would inarguably be 'the best', as a good iPhone 2.0 would be.
And besides, who are you to decide whose complaints are legitimate and whose are bitching? The world does not love a forum bully, Teno. Aegis' comments are every bit as legitimate as your own.
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