Maybe words from the horses mouth might drive the message home
Seems the horse is paying attention at least. As far as profitability Apple's financials speak for themselves. Each of Apples moves at this point a part of an overall business strategy.
That report says that Nokia specifically didn't mention who the competitor with aggressive pricing was. Seems unlikely it's Apple when the iPhone 3G sells for more than Nokia's N series here in Europe.
There are a lot of phones that can, as an example, my Nokia E65 can, in fact my carrier has ad-hoc data rates so I can do it without a data plan as well
Same here.
I've a Nokia 6310 on Orange, An SE T610 on Vodafone, an SE P910i on Orange and a various other phones in the drawer. All allow tethering. I've not had a phone that hasn't since 1998 or so. Paying for tethering seems to be a USA only idea.
Nokia was not heavily challanged on its own turf for years, if ever, with competitors such as Apple and RIM.
Even though a few here like to pretend that the iPhone and Blackberry aren't good phones in comparison, sales will tell the story.
It doesn't matter that a few think that the more features, the better the device, it;s the customers, in large numbers that make that decision, not the few electronistas here.
Ok, so go look at RIM's sales figures in Europe where Nokia are hot. Almost non-existent.
Most of Nokia's smartphones come with ActiveSync or Blackberry Connect software built in so you've got a Blackberry but then all the other stuff Nokia give you too like 3G, a decent camera and GPS.
As an actual mobile software developer, in your opinion, which platform offers you the best likelihood of making money?
And, have you looked at the iPhone environment and tools?
S60 and WinMo are our big platforms. S60 has the volume but not every S60 user cares about 3rd party apps. WinMo users are usually more open to spending $$$ on apps but obviously there's less of them around. Our business is split roughly equally between them.
We've certainly looked into iPhone development and the whole team is enthusiastic about the trying it. However, the main stumbling block is that our kind of application wouldn't be allowed under the terms of the SDK. There's also some technical limitations of the SDK that would make our lives very diffiult. We've considered releasing something for jailbroken iPhones but that's a whole different can of worms.
I can't really go into what our software does, sorry.
As a bedroom programmer, the iPhone is certainly an attraction prospect. Assuming you own a Mac, the barriers to entry are low and the risks are small. Everyone I know hates Handago, so all these new app stores are very welcome.
There's a list of functionality that third parties aren't allowed to provide as part of their app. We would violate one of these. I can't really say any more.
That report says that Nokia specifically didn't mention who the competitor with aggressive pricing was. Seems unlikely it's Apple when the iPhone 3G sells for more than Nokia's N series here in Europe.
I think it's Apple. Many of Nokia's high-end phones retail for more than the iPhone. But I don't think it's about aggressive pricing so much as aggressive selling. The iPhone spent the first half of 2007 in no country, 6 months in the US and only a handful of months in a few more countries. Now it's about 80 countries all offering a subsidy of some sort.
I think it's Apple. Many of Nokia's high-end phones retail for more than the iPhone. But I don't think it's about aggressive pricing so much as aggressive selling. The iPhone spent the first half of 2007 in no country, 6 months in the US and only a handful of months in a few more countries. Now it's about 80 countries all offering a subsidy of some sort.
It's not Apple. The iPhone still retails for well above the N-series in Europe and most of the world.
It's most likely Moto, Samsung or LG since they're the companies shipping phones in real volume.
It's not Apple. The iPhone still retails for well above the N-series in Europe and most of the world.
It's most likely Moto, Samsung or LG since they're the companies shipping phones in real volume.
Are we talking about overall marketshare of all cellphones or of the smartphone and/or high-end cellphone marketshare. If it's the former, then Apple would have little impact, but if it's the latter I think that Apple is the reason.
PS: I thought the only people worrying about Moto was Moto.
We have been through this before, not in all countries
I never said in all countries.
But I did suggest a reason why Apple might not be able to allow it anywhere.
If you download it in a country where it would be allowed without a contract extension, and it is used in countries where contract extensions are allowed, and given, then that would violate those contracts, and very possibly Apple's contracts with those carriers, which likely states that Apple won't allow anything to be downloaded off their site that would allow contract violations with their customers.
Of course, it's also possible that Apple is working with these carriers, and is developing their own software that would work with the carriers billing systems.
Quote:
What do you mean by most?
I read in an article in Computerworld a few months ago, where it said that "most" BT enabled phones just allowed standard telephony headphones. I don't remember anything more specific than that offhand.
As a bedroom programmer, the iPhone is certainly an attraction prospect. Assuming you own a Mac, the barriers to entry are low and the risks are small. Everyone I know hates Handago, so all these new app stores are very welcome.
Rich,
Thanks for your answer.
I am just playing with the iPhone SDK now. Finding out that OpenGL has moved on since I last used it! :-)
A lot of phones had the ability to copy mp3s (and other formats) to the phone way before the iPhone came about
We're not talking about that.
We're talking about downloading, and buying music, from a music store, from the phone, ala the iTunes store. The best we saw, in a few cases, was very expensive pricing, on limited music (when compared to the iTunes library).
There are a lot of phones that can, as an example, my Nokia E65 can, in fact my carrier has ad-hoc data rates so I can do it without a data plan as well
Ok, so go look at RIM's sales figures in Europe where Nokia are hot. Almost non-existent.
Most of Nokia's smartphones come with ActiveSync or Blackberry Connect software built in so you've got a Blackberry but then all the other stuff Nokia give you too like 3G, a decent camera and GPS.
So who do you say is responsible for their falling marketshare in smartphones? Or are you saying it's happening everywhere BUT in Europe?
We're talking about downloading, and buying music, from a music store, from the phone, ala the iTunes store. The best we saw, in a few cases, was very expensive pricing, on limited music (when compared to the iTunes library).
In most cases it is still cheaper to buy the CD and rip it, the iTunes store isn't that cheap
I did read exactly what you wrote, and I understand what you said, but as long as the carrier isn't blocking people from using any phone on their network, and they provide ad-hoc data you can tether, regardless of having their express permission
But I did suggest a reason why Apple might not be able to allow it anywhere.
yes, and I have said that your suggestion doesn't hold up in all countries, so why restrict it everywhere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
I read in an article in Computerworld a few months ago, where it said that "most" BT enabled phones just allowed standard telephony headphones. I don't remember anything more specific than that offhand.
ComputerWorld US? Didn't the US carriers have a habbit of restricting features of their phones? I know Microsoft removed DUN from Windows Mobile, maybe that also has something to do with it
Comments
Maybe words from the horses mouth might drive the message home
Seems the horse is paying attention at least. As far as profitability Apple's financials speak for themselves. Each of Apples moves at this point a part of an overall business strategy.
source
That report says that Nokia specifically didn't mention who the competitor with aggressive pricing was. Seems unlikely it's Apple when the iPhone 3G sells for more than Nokia's N series here in Europe.
There are a lot of phones that can, as an example, my Nokia E65 can, in fact my carrier has ad-hoc data rates so I can do it without a data plan as well
Same here.
I've a Nokia 6310 on Orange, An SE T610 on Vodafone, an SE P910i on Orange and a various other phones in the drawer. All allow tethering. I've not had a phone that hasn't since 1998 or so. Paying for tethering seems to be a USA only idea.
Nokia was not heavily challanged on its own turf for years, if ever, with competitors such as Apple and RIM.
Even though a few here like to pretend that the iPhone and Blackberry aren't good phones in comparison, sales will tell the story.
It doesn't matter that a few think that the more features, the better the device, it;s the customers, in large numbers that make that decision, not the few electronistas here.
Ok, so go look at RIM's sales figures in Europe where Nokia are hot. Almost non-existent.
Most of Nokia's smartphones come with ActiveSync or Blackberry Connect software built in so you've got a Blackberry but then all the other stuff Nokia give you too like 3G, a decent camera and GPS.
As an actual mobile software developer, in your opinion, which platform offers you the best likelihood of making money?
And, have you looked at the iPhone environment and tools?
S60 and WinMo are our big platforms. S60 has the volume but not every S60 user cares about 3rd party apps. WinMo users are usually more open to spending $$$ on apps but obviously there's less of them around. Our business is split roughly equally between them.
We've certainly looked into iPhone development and the whole team is enthusiastic about the trying it. However, the main stumbling block is that our kind of application wouldn't be allowed under the terms of the SDK. There's also some technical limitations of the SDK that would make our lives very diffiult. We've considered releasing something for jailbroken iPhones but that's a whole different can of worms.
I can't really go into what our software does, sorry.
As a bedroom programmer, the iPhone is certainly an attraction prospect. Assuming you own a Mac, the barriers to entry are low and the risks are small. Everyone I know hates Handago, so all these new app stores are very welcome.
However, the main stumbling block is that our kind of application wouldn't be allowed under the terms of the SDK.
What rule(s) would it violate?
What rule(s) would it violate?
There's a list of functionality that third parties aren't allowed to provide as part of their app. We would violate one of these. I can't really say any more.
That report says that Nokia specifically didn't mention who the competitor with aggressive pricing was. Seems unlikely it's Apple when the iPhone 3G sells for more than Nokia's N series here in Europe.
So who is it?
So who is it?
I think it's Apple. Many of Nokia's high-end phones retail for more than the iPhone. But I don't think it's about aggressive pricing so much as aggressive selling. The iPhone spent the first half of 2007 in no country, 6 months in the US and only a handful of months in a few more countries. Now it's about 80 countries all offering a subsidy of some sort.
I think it's Apple. Many of Nokia's high-end phones retail for more than the iPhone. But I don't think it's about aggressive pricing so much as aggressive selling. The iPhone spent the first half of 2007 in no country, 6 months in the US and only a handful of months in a few more countries. Now it's about 80 countries all offering a subsidy of some sort.
It's not Apple. The iPhone still retails for well above the N-series in Europe and most of the world.
It's most likely Moto, Samsung or LG since they're the companies shipping phones in real volume.
It's not Apple. The iPhone still retails for well above the N-series in Europe and most of the world.
It's most likely Moto, Samsung or LG since they're the companies shipping phones in real volume.
Are we talking about overall marketshare of all cellphones or of the smartphone and/or high-end cellphone marketshare. If it's the former, then Apple would have little impact, but if it's the latter I think that Apple is the reason.
PS: I thought the only people worrying about Moto was Moto.
We have been through this before, not in all countries
I never said in all countries.
But I did suggest a reason why Apple might not be able to allow it anywhere.
If you download it in a country where it would be allowed without a contract extension, and it is used in countries where contract extensions are allowed, and given, then that would violate those contracts, and very possibly Apple's contracts with those carriers, which likely states that Apple won't allow anything to be downloaded off their site that would allow contract violations with their customers.
Of course, it's also possible that Apple is working with these carriers, and is developing their own software that would work with the carriers billing systems.
What do you mean by most?
I read in an article in Computerworld a few months ago, where it said that "most" BT enabled phones just allowed standard telephony headphones. I don't remember anything more specific than that offhand.
As a bedroom programmer, the iPhone is certainly an attraction prospect. Assuming you own a Mac, the barriers to entry are low and the risks are small. Everyone I know hates Handago, so all these new app stores are very welcome.
Rich,
Thanks for your answer.
I am just playing with the iPhone SDK now. Finding out that OpenGL has moved on since I last used it! :-)
C.
A lot of phones had the ability to copy mp3s (and other formats) to the phone way before the iPhone came about
We're not talking about that.
We're talking about downloading, and buying music, from a music store, from the phone, ala the iTunes store. The best we saw, in a few cases, was very expensive pricing, on limited music (when compared to the iTunes library).
There are a lot of phones that can, as an example, my Nokia E65 can, in fact my carrier has ad-hoc data rates so I can do it without a data plan as well
Re-read my post to see exactly what I said.
Ok, so go look at RIM's sales figures in Europe where Nokia are hot. Almost non-existent.
Most of Nokia's smartphones come with ActiveSync or Blackberry Connect software built in so you've got a Blackberry but then all the other stuff Nokia give you too like 3G, a decent camera and GPS.
So who do you say is responsible for their falling marketshare in smartphones? Or are you saying it's happening everywhere BUT in Europe?
PS: I thought the only people worrying about Moto was Moto.
A kamikazee attack is still an attack.
So who do you say is responsible for their falling marketshare in smartphones? Or are you saying it's happening everywhere BUT in Europe?
The original article didn't attempt any analysis beyond "ZOMG IPHONE!!!11", so let me try. It could be down to a number of factors:
- Nokia's lumpy roadmap
- Saturation of the European market
- Changes in Japanese cell phone law
- Increased competition
It's likely to be a combination of all these factors.
We're not talking about that.
We're talking about downloading, and buying music, from a music store, from the phone, ala the iTunes store. The best we saw, in a few cases, was very expensive pricing, on limited music (when compared to the iTunes library).
In most cases it is still cheaper to buy the CD and rip it, the iTunes store isn't that cheap
Re-read my post to see exactly what I said.
I did read exactly what you wrote, and I understand what you said, but as long as the carrier isn't blocking people from using any phone on their network, and they provide ad-hoc data you can tether, regardless of having their express permission
I never said in all countries.
But I did suggest a reason why Apple might not be able to allow it anywhere.
yes, and I have said that your suggestion doesn't hold up in all countries, so why restrict it everywhere.
I read in an article in Computerworld a few months ago, where it said that "most" BT enabled phones just allowed standard telephony headphones. I don't remember anything more specific than that offhand.
ComputerWorld US? Didn't the US carriers have a habbit of restricting features of their phones? I know Microsoft removed DUN from Windows Mobile, maybe that also has something to do with it
http://www.gartner.com/it/page.jsp?id=754112