What demonstration did you see the Pre doing everything the iPhone can do?
Primairly what I saw was a demonstration of its UI and browser. I haven't seen the Pre running any 3rd party apps or games. I haven't even seen anyone make a phone call on the Pre.
Not to say the Pre cannot do these things, but you are saying it beats the iPhone without actually seeing it in full use.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacOldTimer
Last question.
Does the Pre out perform the iPhone 3G in every capacity of the phone.
Based on the specs and every review I've read it does. Not to mention a demo that made the iPhone look like the Newton of it's days.
The Newton couldn't copy and paste either but it did really bad hand writing recognition.
Well the OS kicks the iPhones ass out of the water. The hardware looks dated, too thick, too small and physical slide out keyboard just adds bulk. It doesn't look sleek or different from all the other clones out there.
Did no one catch the (webOS) part, & that it is built on java script & modern web standards? Can anyone remember another mobile phone that entered the market with only web standards & java to support 3rd party apps?
What demonstration did you see the Pre doing everything the iPhone can do?
Primairly what I saw was a demonstration of its UI and browser. I haven't seen the Pre running any 3rd party apps or games. I haven't even seen anyone make a phone call on the Pre.
Not to say the Pre cannot do these things, but you are saying it beats the iPhone without actually seeing it in full use.
& web browsing is dramatically effected by network, which sprint does have the fastest.
Did no one catch the (webOS) part, & that it is built on java script & modern web standards? Can anyone remember another mobile phone that entered the market with only web standards & java to support 3rd party apps?
So, you meant it kicks iPhone OS 1.0?
They said the sdk will special APIs that will allow access to all of the hardware features. Palm has planned on devs having full access to the thing. Hello? Palm is not asleep anymore if you haven't noticed.
They said the sdk will special APIs that will allow access to all of the hardware features. Palm has planned on devs having full access to the thing. Hello? Palm is not asleep anymore if you haven't noticed.
Right. A demo of a single product at least six months from shipping certainly proves that Palm is utterly transformed and that the last 6 years or so of lethargy and drift are completely behind them.
Anyone who isn't entirely convinced that Palm is the new god of cell phones just obviously isn't paying attention.
Right. A demo of a single product at least six months from shipping certainly proves that Palm is utterly transformed and that the last 6 years or so of lethargy and drift are completely behind them.
Anyone who isn't entirely convinced that Palm is the new god of cell phones just obviously isn't paying attention.
No dude you don't get it. Its not one company is a god and then another. Its that Palm has thrown an impossible hail mary pass and the receiver caught it!
If......and I say IF Palm is able to execute successfully within the next six months then Palm is going to be back in the game.
If this happens I see android becoming number three behind Palm. Well, what I can at least say for sure is that RIM will not be in the top two by the end of this year. I see them being third or even fourth in sales. And poor microsoft? They will be in last place behind nokia and symbian.
No dude you don't get it. Its not one company is a god and then another. Its that Palm has thrown an impossible hail mary pass and the receiver caught it!
If......and I say IF Palm is able to execute successfully within the next six months then Palm is going to be back in the game.
If this happens I see android becoming number three behind Palm. Well, what I can at least say for sure is that RIM will not be in the top two by the end of this year. I see them being third or even fourth in sales. And poor microsoft? They will be in last place behind nokia and symbian.
Well, dude, what you've seen is a video demo on the internet, and you're ready to proclaim the Pre some kind of fantastic new paradigm of phone tech that eclipses all that has come before and brings Apple trembling to their knees, etc.
Which seems a little premature, is what I'm saying. In that you've never touched one and have no idea how it performs outside of some stuff Palm chose to show off.
Well, dude, what you've seen is a video demo on the internet, and you're ready to proclaim the Pre some kind of fantastic new paradigm of phone tech that eclipses all that has come before and brings Apple trembling to their knees, etc.
Which seems a little premature, is what I'm saying. In that you've never touched one and have no idea how it performs outside of some stuff Palm chose to show off.
Do you remember everyone's attitudes were back in 2007? I remember Ballmer having a similar attitude to yours now. What 2007 should have taught people was that you shouldn't underestimate anyone.
I tell you what......any company today that is a competitor to palm is not going to say "seems a little premature, is what I'm saying. In that you've never touched one and have no idea how it performs outside of some stuff Palm chose to show off." .........at least not internally.
They may say that externally to the press but internally they will be running back to the labs.
Do you REALLY think other companies are actually going to wait MONTHS to see if Palm is going to be successful or not? Idiot Ballmer made that mistake and now look.
I betcha Steve Jobs is running back to the labs right now with a whip lashing his staff...."WORK F A S T E R ! ! !"
Do you remember everyone's attitudes were back in 2007? I remember Ballmer having a similar attitude to yours now. What 2007 should have taught people was that you shouldn't underestimate anyone.
I tell you what......any company today that is a competitor to palm is not going to say "seems a little premature, is what I'm saying. In that you've never touched one and have no idea how it performs outside of some stuff Palm chose to show off." .........at least not internally.
They may say that externally to the press but internally they will be running back to the labs.
Do you REALLY think other companies are actually going to wait MONTHS to see if Palm is going to be successful or not? Idiot Ballmer made that mistake and now look.
I betcha Steve Jobs is running back to the labs right now with a whip lashing his staff...."WORK F A S T E R ! ! !"
I'm actually not quite sure what you're saying here, but the fact that that Ballmer underestimated the iPhone and that the iPhone went on to be very successful does not mean that every subsequent product introduction in the smart phone space has to be treated as if it were the Next Big Thing That Everybody Has To Copy Lest They Die. Ballmer dissed the iPhone because that's what Ballmer does, the iPhone was successful because it was innovative, powerful and easy to use, and because it benefited from iPod/iTunes Store, and later the App Store, tie ins.
The iPhone entered a market without an iPhone. The Pre doesn't have that luxury.
And it's pretty clear that Apple has a long term plan for the iPhone, as a device and as a platform. I seriously doubt that the appearance of any given new shiny has Jobs or his people in any particular frenzy.
Really, I'm having a hard time understanding what it is you're seeing in the demoes that has you so convinced that there's been some kind of seismic shift in the cell phone world. Palm has shown another touch screen phone with some nice UI touches. Why in the world would you imagine that that would have Apple, or Google, or anyone on the defensive?
bad ass as it looks and sounds it should do really well for Palm and is the first innovative challenger to step up to the iphone in my opinion.
I think the use of javascript/html/etc for the apps/os is brilliant as far as critical third party development for the platform, access to open source web development and internal development and maintenance for the OS/browser tech. The interface looks to be focused on simplicity, form and function via Rubinstein. If it's priced right and performs then it's an out of the park grand slam for palm.
Again, people aren't going to pony up for "features" in software when they can be replicated on other handsets which have other advantages or which cost less. Integrated messaging isn't a software suite like iLife or a next gen game-- the kind of platform specific, very difficult to replicate thing that might dictate hardware choices.
If it looks like this is a useful feature, to enough people, that can be implemented well, I would guess that Apple or a third party would develop something. No doubt Google is looking at the Pre as well.
OTOH, until we get a chance to actually use such a feature, it's hard to say. Devil's in the details, as always.
People ponied up for the iphone and it did not have any features not available elsewhere.. in fact, it had less features... it cannot do flash, no cut and paste... other than apple ease of use, what did the iphone have?.. nothing..
if integrated messaging is so easy, why hasn't apple done it?.. maybe it's as easy as cut and paste?.. (that was sarcasm). Google, apple could look at integrated message all they want.. just like lots of phone now have touch screens and accelermeter and pinching, etc.. that hasn't stopped the iphone from selling has it?. two years and apple still can't do cut and paste.. what makes you think they smart enough to do integrated messaging?.
As for me, i can't wait. I plan to be one of the first to get the pre. I'll have integrated message and cut and paste while you waste your breath shouting to the world about how iphone cudda do this and that and the mighty jobs has decided his followers don't need it (i wonder why after two years, people still talking about cut and paste.. thought that argument was settled by the mighty steve a long time ago).
I'm actually not quite sure what you're saying here, but the fact that that Ballmer underestimated the iPhone and that the iPhone went on to be very successful does not mean that every subsequent product introduction in the smart phone space has to be treated as if it were the Next Big Thing That Everybody Has To Copy Lest They Die. Ballmer dissed the iPhone because that's what Ballmer does, the iPhone was successful because it was innovative, powerful and easy to use, and because it benefited from iPod/iTunes Store, and later the App Store, tie ins.
The iPhone entered a market without an iPhone. The Pre doesn't have that luxury.
And it's pretty clear that Apple has a long term plan for the iPhone, as a device and as a platform. I seriously doubt that the appearance of any given new shiny has Jobs or his people in any particular frenzy.
Really, I'm having a hard time understanding what it is you're seeing in the demoes that has you so convinced that there's been some kind of seismic shift in the cell phone world. Palm has shown another touch screen phone with some nice UI touches. Why in the world would you imagine that that would have Apple, or Google, or anyone on the defensive?
Because steve is not as stupid as Ballmer. Everyone thought the iphone itself was not revolutionary and on it wasn't. The iphone did not introduce any new revolutionary features. Did not allow people to do something on a phone they could not do before. If Steve jobs is as dumb as you, then he deserves to have his hat handed to him. The cell phone market is cutthroat.. just ask Nokia and Samsung and Motorola.. remember the Razr?.. when it came out, everyone wanted one.. that thing was everywhere.. motorola sat on it's fat ass, thinking that they did not have to innovate anymore.. one thing i know, Steve jobs is not as stupid as you.. (and not as stupid as motorola execs).. in the cell phone market, one day you are hot, the next, you are yesterday's news. Palm would love apple to sit on their asses and think palm is not a threat to them. If apple did that, palm would throw a celebratory party.
People ponied up for the iphone and it did not have any features not available elsewhere.. in fact, it had less features... it cannot do flash, no cut and paste... other than apple ease of use, what did the iphone have?.. nothing..
if integrated messaging is so easy, why hasn't apple done it?.. maybe it's as easy as cut and paste?.. (that was sarcasm). Google, apple could look at integrated message all they want.. just like lots of phone now have touch screens and accelermeter and pinching, etc.. that hasn't stopped the iphone from selling has it?. two years and apple still can't do cut and paste.. what makes you think they smart enough to do integrated messaging?.
As for me, i can't wait. I plan to be one of the first to get the pre. I'll have integrated message and cut and paste while you waste your breath shouting to the world about how iphone cudda do this and that and the mighty jobs has decided his followers don't need it (i wonder why after two years, people still talking about cut and paste.. thought that argument was settled by the mighty steve a long time ago).
I think it's amazing that the same people that can't shut up about "fan boys" and imagine that anyone that doesn't agree with them about the relative value of Apple products are members of a cult can be so indiscriminately fanboyish. And all in the same post, which takes real effort.
The way you're coming in your pants over a device that you've only every seen a few demoes of make the average Apple enthusiast look like a model of sober restraint. But, then again, it's always been the "anti-fanboys" that have been the most hysterical.
Because steve is not as stupid as Ballmer. Everyone thought the iphone itself was not revolutionary and on it wasn't. The iphone did not introduce any new revolutionary features. Did not allow people to do something on a phone they could not do before. If Steve jobs is as dumb as you, then he deserves to have his hat handed to him. The cell phone market is cutthroat.. just ask Nokia and Samsung and Motorola.. remember the Razr?.. when it came out, everyone wanted one.. that thing was everywhere.. motorola sat on it's fat ass, thinking that they did not have to innovate anymore.. one thing i know, Steve jobs is not as stupid as you.. (and not as stupid as motorola execs).. in the cell phone market, one day you are hot, the next, you are yesterday's news. Palm would love apple to sit on their asses and think palm is not a threat to them. If apple did that, palm would throw a celebratory party.
If you think the relevant example is the Razr you're either 16 or too stupid to bother with.
If you think the relevant example is the Razr you're either 16 or too stupid to bother with.
Yes i think the razr is a relevant example because it was popular. I was not trying to find a PDA to compare the iphone with.. i was merely comparing popularity and i haven't been 16 for a long, long time.. in fact, i am older than 32, so i am flattered you think i look like 16 (sarcasm in case you don't recognize). The original statement was stupid on it's face.. every pda is a threat to apple. I know this is difficult for apple fans to grasp but not everyone wants an iphone (and price has nothing to do with it). I know someone making 200,000 a year and he does not want an iphone.. i make substantial myself and can afford 10 iphones but don't want one. To me, the iphone is limiting. I like the synery concept palm created. I like the integrated messaging. I like the pull out keyboard (i know people with iphones and have used theirs.. the onscreen keyboard is not my thing).
Now, some people will always like the iphone.. as an example, i have an ipod.. i love my ipod.. i am not even willing to try other music players because the ipod does it for me.. that is same for other people in relation to the iphone.. for me, the iphone does not do it.. the lack of cut and paste really turned me off. The lack of flash support also turned me off. I like the stuff mentioned in the pre.. i presume palm will bring those features to the pre when released (or else it was pretty stupid to talk about features they not planning to release). I like those features. My friend who makes over 200,000.. he also likes the features. He plans to get one. Many people who own iphones are not apple fans (i think this is like an elementary truth).. they can be easily be persuaded to switch.. they are not as vested as the old timers in apple survival. A friend i know, whoose family is well off and buys the latest gadgets plans to get one (although he's not a good example, he just like new shiny toys). The point is, this market is not mature. Palm pre does have something the iphone and no other phone has, the integrated messaging.. talking about how the iphone could implement this is just talk.. All i know, is that the pre is implementing it and it will also have cut and paste and they will not restrict what apps could be developed for the pre.. good enough for me.
I think it's amazing that the same people that can't shut up about "fan boys" and imagine that anyone that doesn't agree with them about the relative value of Apple products are members of a cult can be so indiscriminately fanboyish. And all in the same post, which takes real effort.
The way you're coming in your pants over a device that you've only every seen a few demoes of make the average Apple enthusiast look like a model of sober restraint. But, then again, it's always been the "anti-fanboys" that have been the most hysterical.
The same way you feel right now is the same way others felt when rumors of the iphone was out before the iphone was released.. apple fans were salivating about getting an iphone without even knowing what it looked like.. it baffled other people.. now it's your turn to be baffled.
I am anti-fanboy because it is dangerous.. i have an ipod and only buy apple computers for my home because i find value in those products not because i worship the ground steve walks on.. i cannot find one apple fanboy (not one) that can admit that the lack of cut and paste is stupid on apple part. Like apple produts should not blind you to their faults. Not saying you should not buy an iphone (heck, i bought a treo 700p and it sucks but at least i am not licking palm boots). Get a brain, think for yourself. This is my only gripe against fan-boys.. think for yourself..
i would respect your more if you said.. "i love the iphone even though it does not have cut and paste but i understand why that is a deal breaker for some". Instead, fanboys all over the net are busy trying to persuade the rest of the sane population that cut and paste is useeless.. maybe applee should remove cut and paste from macOSX altogether.. i mean, whatever will we use it for?. Why even have an operating system with cut and paste right?.
Let me ask you a question addabox... don't you find it odd that two years after the iphone, people still mention the lack of cut and paste?. if it made sense, wouldn't the issue have died a long time ago?.. even iphone users mention the lack of cut and paste.. what does that tell you?.. two years man.. two years!!!!! and people still talking about cut and paste.. apple should just implement the damn thing to shut people up.. but steve, no, his damn ego too big to admit he made a mistake.
Im new to the forums, but i just wanna share my opinions to whoever wishes to read them.
I believe apple noticed the flaw in their OS design and the iPhones hardware capabilities, they didnt calculate the amount of hardware power they needed in order to provide its users with the features they wanted and more for the years to come. The flaw that didnt allow them to implement features and still provide great battery life and fluid and easy user experience from their hardware and OS. I believe this because of the simple features that are not on the iphone.
I believe that apple has worked out a way to cut and paste, and for integrated sms, mms and IM and the rest of the features iphone users want. The only problem is that the current hardware limitation on the current iphone dont allow the software features that we want. Because of the hardware of the current iphone, apple believes its not worth the trouble to make a cripple phone, have crippled features. Dont get me wrong i believe the current iphone is powerful, but its not capable to provide apple the resources it needs in order for them to add what we want and more.
I believe apple has made everything that we want and much more, but are testing it on their next upcoming phone device. Also the reason why they haven't released their promised and past due Push Notification System is because the whole badge alert idea was not worth the trouble on the current phone, so they improved the whole idea and will probably release it for their next phone device with a much better Notification System.
I'm actually not quite sure what you're saying here, but the fact that that Ballmer underestimated the iPhone and that the iPhone went on to be very successful does not mean that every subsequent product introduction in the smart phone space has to be treated as if it were the Next Big Thing That Everybody Has To Copy Lest They Die. Ballmer dissed the iPhone because that's what Ballmer does, the iPhone was successful because it was innovative, powerful and easy to use, and because it benefited from iPod/iTunes Store, and later the App Store, tie ins.
The iPhone entered a market without an iPhone. The Pre doesn't have that luxury.
And it's pretty clear that Apple has a long term plan for the iPhone, as a device and as a platform. I seriously doubt that the appearance of any given new shiny has Jobs or his people in any particular frenzy.
Really, I'm having a hard time understanding what it is you're seeing in the demoes that has you so convinced that there's been some kind of seismic shift in the cell phone world. Palm has shown another touch screen phone with some nice UI touches. Why in the world would you imagine that that would have Apple, or Google, or anyone on the defensive?
Why? Because Jon Rubenstein is taking advantage of the competition's weaknesses and have raised the bar. Those nice UI touches as you call them are not touches at all and are brilliant ideas.
Did any of you think Palm was going to debut an OS such as this? Everybody thought it was going to be the old palm OS with a few new features and then watch in horror as the ceo committed suicide on stage or something.
I just DON'T see Apple expecting what they saw at Palm's keynote. And I don't think Apple was planning on doing any multitasking with the iphone OS.
And lets say that a few months for now Apple does do multitasking with the iphone and with such, they come up with a way to navigate similar to the pre's "cards" feature. That would mean Apple...yes APPLE would be playing catch up! Over the last several years Apple has not been the one catching up.....others were.
I think it's amazing that the same people that can't shut up about "fan boys" and imagine that anyone that doesn't agree with them about the relative value of Apple products are members of a cult can be so indiscriminately fanboyish. And all in the same post, which takes real effort.
The way you're coming in your pants over a device that you've only every seen a few demoes of make the average Apple enthusiast look like a model of sober restraint. But, then again, it's always been the "anti-fanboys" that have been the most hysterical.
I don't know about the others but I'm not assuming anything! And I'm not taking sides either.
Palm still has to execute and it should be an interesting several months. Like the iphone 1.0 though, the Palm Pre will launch with some disadvantages. Just like the iphone 1.0 the pre will launch with......8GB of storage. 8 gigs was great in 2007 for a debut iphone but this is 2009.
for 2009 8 gigs will just not cut it. And get this, the pre does NOT have expandable memory unlike past palm products.
That is a MISTAKE imo. And something that might bite them in the butt down the line.
I think they are copying Apple's playbook a bit too much. If they debuted with 1 gig...yes one gig of storage but have expandable memory then they would have a killer product. But people will have to wait for a 2nd gen model if they want more storage.
I would be shouting at Jon Rubenstein about this if I had the opportunity.
EDIT: Dang, the original iphone debuted with 4 gigs right? Wow, two years goes by fast.
Comments
Primairly what I saw was a demonstration of its UI and browser. I haven't seen the Pre running any 3rd party apps or games. I haven't even seen anyone make a phone call on the Pre.
Not to say the Pre cannot do these things, but you are saying it beats the iPhone without actually seeing it in full use.
Last question.
Does the Pre out perform the iPhone 3G in every capacity of the phone.
Based on the specs and every review I've read it does. Not to mention a demo that made the iPhone look like the Newton of it's days.
The Newton couldn't copy and paste either but it did really bad hand writing recognition.
Well the OS kicks the iPhones ass out of the water. The hardware looks dated, too thick, too small and physical slide out keyboard just adds bulk. It doesn't look sleek or different from all the other clones out there.
Did no one catch the (webOS) part, & that it is built on java script & modern web standards? Can anyone remember another mobile phone that entered the market with only web standards & java to support 3rd party apps?
So, you meant it kicks iPhone OS 1.0?
What demonstration did you see the Pre doing everything the iPhone can do?
Primairly what I saw was a demonstration of its UI and browser. I haven't seen the Pre running any 3rd party apps or games. I haven't even seen anyone make a phone call on the Pre.
Not to say the Pre cannot do these things, but you are saying it beats the iPhone without actually seeing it in full use.
& web browsing is dramatically effected by network, which sprint does have the fastest.
Did no one catch the (webOS) part, & that it is built on java script & modern web standards? Can anyone remember another mobile phone that entered the market with only web standards & java to support 3rd party apps?
So, you meant it kicks iPhone OS 1.0?
They said the sdk will special APIs that will allow access to all of the hardware features. Palm has planned on devs having full access to the thing. Hello? Palm is not asleep anymore if you haven't noticed.
They said the sdk will special APIs that will allow access to all of the hardware features. Palm has planned on devs having full access to the thing. Hello? Palm is not asleep anymore if you haven't noticed.
Right. A demo of a single product at least six months from shipping certainly proves that Palm is utterly transformed and that the last 6 years or so of lethargy and drift are completely behind them.
Anyone who isn't entirely convinced that Palm is the new god of cell phones just obviously isn't paying attention.
Right. A demo of a single product at least six months from shipping certainly proves that Palm is utterly transformed and that the last 6 years or so of lethargy and drift are completely behind them.
Anyone who isn't entirely convinced that Palm is the new god of cell phones just obviously isn't paying attention.
No dude you don't get it. Its not one company is a god and then another. Its that Palm has thrown an impossible hail mary pass and the receiver caught it!
If......and I say IF Palm is able to execute successfully within the next six months then Palm is going to be back in the game.
If this happens I see android becoming number three behind Palm. Well, what I can at least say for sure is that RIM will not be in the top two by the end of this year. I see them being third or even fourth in sales. And poor microsoft? They will be in last place behind nokia and symbian.
No dude you don't get it. Its not one company is a god and then another. Its that Palm has thrown an impossible hail mary pass and the receiver caught it!
If......and I say IF Palm is able to execute successfully within the next six months then Palm is going to be back in the game.
If this happens I see android becoming number three behind Palm. Well, what I can at least say for sure is that RIM will not be in the top two by the end of this year. I see them being third or even fourth in sales. And poor microsoft? They will be in last place behind nokia and symbian.
Well, dude, what you've seen is a video demo on the internet, and you're ready to proclaim the Pre some kind of fantastic new paradigm of phone tech that eclipses all that has come before and brings Apple trembling to their knees, etc.
Which seems a little premature, is what I'm saying. In that you've never touched one and have no idea how it performs outside of some stuff Palm chose to show off.
Well, dude, what you've seen is a video demo on the internet, and you're ready to proclaim the Pre some kind of fantastic new paradigm of phone tech that eclipses all that has come before and brings Apple trembling to their knees, etc.
Which seems a little premature, is what I'm saying. In that you've never touched one and have no idea how it performs outside of some stuff Palm chose to show off.
Do you remember everyone's attitudes were back in 2007? I remember Ballmer having a similar attitude to yours now. What 2007 should have taught people was that you shouldn't underestimate anyone.
I tell you what......any company today that is a competitor to palm is not going to say "seems a little premature, is what I'm saying. In that you've never touched one and have no idea how it performs outside of some stuff Palm chose to show off." .........at least not internally.
They may say that externally to the press but internally they will be running back to the labs.
Do you REALLY think other companies are actually going to wait MONTHS to see if Palm is going to be successful or not? Idiot Ballmer made that mistake and now look.
I betcha Steve Jobs is running back to the labs right now with a whip lashing his staff...."WORK F A S T E R ! ! !"
Do you remember everyone's attitudes were back in 2007? I remember Ballmer having a similar attitude to yours now. What 2007 should have taught people was that you shouldn't underestimate anyone.
I tell you what......any company today that is a competitor to palm is not going to say "seems a little premature, is what I'm saying. In that you've never touched one and have no idea how it performs outside of some stuff Palm chose to show off." .........at least not internally.
They may say that externally to the press but internally they will be running back to the labs.
Do you REALLY think other companies are actually going to wait MONTHS to see if Palm is going to be successful or not? Idiot Ballmer made that mistake and now look.
I betcha Steve Jobs is running back to the labs right now with a whip lashing his staff...."WORK F A S T E R ! ! !"
I'm actually not quite sure what you're saying here, but the fact that that Ballmer underestimated the iPhone and that the iPhone went on to be very successful does not mean that every subsequent product introduction in the smart phone space has to be treated as if it were the Next Big Thing That Everybody Has To Copy Lest They Die. Ballmer dissed the iPhone because that's what Ballmer does, the iPhone was successful because it was innovative, powerful and easy to use, and because it benefited from iPod/iTunes Store, and later the App Store, tie ins.
The iPhone entered a market without an iPhone. The Pre doesn't have that luxury.
And it's pretty clear that Apple has a long term plan for the iPhone, as a device and as a platform. I seriously doubt that the appearance of any given new shiny has Jobs or his people in any particular frenzy.
Really, I'm having a hard time understanding what it is you're seeing in the demoes that has you so convinced that there's been some kind of seismic shift in the cell phone world. Palm has shown another touch screen phone with some nice UI touches. Why in the world would you imagine that that would have Apple, or Google, or anyone on the defensive?
I think the use of javascript/html/etc for the apps/os is brilliant as far as critical third party development for the platform, access to open source web development and internal development and maintenance for the OS/browser tech. The interface looks to be focused on simplicity, form and function via Rubinstein. If it's priced right and performs then it's an out of the park grand slam for palm.
Again, people aren't going to pony up for "features" in software when they can be replicated on other handsets which have other advantages or which cost less. Integrated messaging isn't a software suite like iLife or a next gen game-- the kind of platform specific, very difficult to replicate thing that might dictate hardware choices.
If it looks like this is a useful feature, to enough people, that can be implemented well, I would guess that Apple or a third party would develop something. No doubt Google is looking at the Pre as well.
OTOH, until we get a chance to actually use such a feature, it's hard to say. Devil's in the details, as always.
People ponied up for the iphone and it did not have any features not available elsewhere.. in fact, it had less features... it cannot do flash, no cut and paste... other than apple ease of use, what did the iphone have?.. nothing..
if integrated messaging is so easy, why hasn't apple done it?.. maybe it's as easy as cut and paste?.. (that was sarcasm). Google, apple could look at integrated message all they want.. just like lots of phone now have touch screens and accelermeter and pinching, etc.. that hasn't stopped the iphone from selling has it?. two years and apple still can't do cut and paste.. what makes you think they smart enough to do integrated messaging?.
As for me, i can't wait. I plan to be one of the first to get the pre. I'll have integrated message and cut and paste while you waste your breath shouting to the world about how iphone cudda do this and that and the mighty jobs has decided his followers don't need it (i wonder why after two years, people still talking about cut and paste.. thought that argument was settled by the mighty steve a long time ago).
I'm actually not quite sure what you're saying here, but the fact that that Ballmer underestimated the iPhone and that the iPhone went on to be very successful does not mean that every subsequent product introduction in the smart phone space has to be treated as if it were the Next Big Thing That Everybody Has To Copy Lest They Die. Ballmer dissed the iPhone because that's what Ballmer does, the iPhone was successful because it was innovative, powerful and easy to use, and because it benefited from iPod/iTunes Store, and later the App Store, tie ins.
The iPhone entered a market without an iPhone. The Pre doesn't have that luxury.
And it's pretty clear that Apple has a long term plan for the iPhone, as a device and as a platform. I seriously doubt that the appearance of any given new shiny has Jobs or his people in any particular frenzy.
Really, I'm having a hard time understanding what it is you're seeing in the demoes that has you so convinced that there's been some kind of seismic shift in the cell phone world. Palm has shown another touch screen phone with some nice UI touches. Why in the world would you imagine that that would have Apple, or Google, or anyone on the defensive?
Because steve is not as stupid as Ballmer. Everyone thought the iphone itself was not revolutionary and on it wasn't. The iphone did not introduce any new revolutionary features. Did not allow people to do something on a phone they could not do before. If Steve jobs is as dumb as you, then he deserves to have his hat handed to him. The cell phone market is cutthroat.. just ask Nokia and Samsung and Motorola.. remember the Razr?.. when it came out, everyone wanted one.. that thing was everywhere.. motorola sat on it's fat ass, thinking that they did not have to innovate anymore.. one thing i know, Steve jobs is not as stupid as you.. (and not as stupid as motorola execs).. in the cell phone market, one day you are hot, the next, you are yesterday's news. Palm would love apple to sit on their asses and think palm is not a threat to them. If apple did that, palm would throw a celebratory party.
People ponied up for the iphone and it did not have any features not available elsewhere.. in fact, it had less features... it cannot do flash, no cut and paste... other than apple ease of use, what did the iphone have?.. nothing..
if integrated messaging is so easy, why hasn't apple done it?.. maybe it's as easy as cut and paste?.. (that was sarcasm). Google, apple could look at integrated message all they want.. just like lots of phone now have touch screens and accelermeter and pinching, etc.. that hasn't stopped the iphone from selling has it?. two years and apple still can't do cut and paste.. what makes you think they smart enough to do integrated messaging?.
As for me, i can't wait. I plan to be one of the first to get the pre. I'll have integrated message and cut and paste while you waste your breath shouting to the world about how iphone cudda do this and that and the mighty jobs has decided his followers don't need it (i wonder why after two years, people still talking about cut and paste.. thought that argument was settled by the mighty steve a long time ago).
I think it's amazing that the same people that can't shut up about "fan boys" and imagine that anyone that doesn't agree with them about the relative value of Apple products are members of a cult can be so indiscriminately fanboyish. And all in the same post, which takes real effort.
The way you're coming in your pants over a device that you've only every seen a few demoes of make the average Apple enthusiast look like a model of sober restraint. But, then again, it's always been the "anti-fanboys" that have been the most hysterical.
Because steve is not as stupid as Ballmer. Everyone thought the iphone itself was not revolutionary and on it wasn't. The iphone did not introduce any new revolutionary features. Did not allow people to do something on a phone they could not do before. If Steve jobs is as dumb as you, then he deserves to have his hat handed to him. The cell phone market is cutthroat.. just ask Nokia and Samsung and Motorola.. remember the Razr?.. when it came out, everyone wanted one.. that thing was everywhere.. motorola sat on it's fat ass, thinking that they did not have to innovate anymore.. one thing i know, Steve jobs is not as stupid as you.. (and not as stupid as motorola execs).. in the cell phone market, one day you are hot, the next, you are yesterday's news. Palm would love apple to sit on their asses and think palm is not a threat to them. If apple did that, palm would throw a celebratory party.
If you think the relevant example is the Razr you're either 16 or too stupid to bother with.
If you think the relevant example is the Razr you're either 16 or too stupid to bother with.
Yes i think the razr is a relevant example because it was popular. I was not trying to find a PDA to compare the iphone with.. i was merely comparing popularity and i haven't been 16 for a long, long time.. in fact, i am older than 32, so i am flattered you think i look like 16 (sarcasm in case you don't recognize). The original statement was stupid on it's face.. every pda is a threat to apple. I know this is difficult for apple fans to grasp but not everyone wants an iphone (and price has nothing to do with it). I know someone making 200,000 a year and he does not want an iphone.. i make substantial myself and can afford 10 iphones but don't want one. To me, the iphone is limiting. I like the synery concept palm created. I like the integrated messaging. I like the pull out keyboard (i know people with iphones and have used theirs.. the onscreen keyboard is not my thing).
Now, some people will always like the iphone.. as an example, i have an ipod.. i love my ipod.. i am not even willing to try other music players because the ipod does it for me.. that is same for other people in relation to the iphone.. for me, the iphone does not do it.. the lack of cut and paste really turned me off. The lack of flash support also turned me off. I like the stuff mentioned in the pre.. i presume palm will bring those features to the pre when released (or else it was pretty stupid to talk about features they not planning to release). I like those features. My friend who makes over 200,000.. he also likes the features. He plans to get one. Many people who own iphones are not apple fans (i think this is like an elementary truth).. they can be easily be persuaded to switch.. they are not as vested as the old timers in apple survival. A friend i know, whoose family is well off and buys the latest gadgets plans to get one (although he's not a good example, he just like new shiny toys). The point is, this market is not mature. Palm pre does have something the iphone and no other phone has, the integrated messaging.. talking about how the iphone could implement this is just talk.. All i know, is that the pre is implementing it and it will also have cut and paste and they will not restrict what apps could be developed for the pre.. good enough for me.
I think it's amazing that the same people that can't shut up about "fan boys" and imagine that anyone that doesn't agree with them about the relative value of Apple products are members of a cult can be so indiscriminately fanboyish. And all in the same post, which takes real effort.
The way you're coming in your pants over a device that you've only every seen a few demoes of make the average Apple enthusiast look like a model of sober restraint. But, then again, it's always been the "anti-fanboys" that have been the most hysterical.
The same way you feel right now is the same way others felt when rumors of the iphone was out before the iphone was released.. apple fans were salivating about getting an iphone without even knowing what it looked like.. it baffled other people.. now it's your turn to be baffled.
I am anti-fanboy because it is dangerous.. i have an ipod and only buy apple computers for my home because i find value in those products not because i worship the ground steve walks on.. i cannot find one apple fanboy (not one) that can admit that the lack of cut and paste is stupid on apple part. Like apple produts should not blind you to their faults. Not saying you should not buy an iphone (heck, i bought a treo 700p and it sucks but at least i am not licking palm boots). Get a brain, think for yourself. This is my only gripe against fan-boys.. think for yourself..
i would respect your more if you said.. "i love the iphone even though it does not have cut and paste but i understand why that is a deal breaker for some". Instead, fanboys all over the net are busy trying to persuade the rest of the sane population that cut and paste is useeless.. maybe applee should remove cut and paste from macOSX altogether.. i mean, whatever will we use it for?. Why even have an operating system with cut and paste right?.
I believe apple noticed the flaw in their OS design and the iPhones hardware capabilities, they didnt calculate the amount of hardware power they needed in order to provide its users with the features they wanted and more for the years to come. The flaw that didnt allow them to implement features and still provide great battery life and fluid and easy user experience from their hardware and OS. I believe this because of the simple features that are not on the iphone.
I believe that apple has worked out a way to cut and paste, and for integrated sms, mms and IM and the rest of the features iphone users want. The only problem is that the current hardware limitation on the current iphone dont allow the software features that we want. Because of the hardware of the current iphone, apple believes its not worth the trouble to make a cripple phone, have crippled features. Dont get me wrong i believe the current iphone is powerful, but its not capable to provide apple the resources it needs in order for them to add what we want and more.
I believe apple has made everything that we want and much more, but are testing it on their next upcoming phone device. Also the reason why they haven't released their promised and past due Push Notification System is because the whole badge alert idea was not worth the trouble on the current phone, so they improved the whole idea and will probably release it for their next phone device with a much better Notification System.
I'm actually not quite sure what you're saying here, but the fact that that Ballmer underestimated the iPhone and that the iPhone went on to be very successful does not mean that every subsequent product introduction in the smart phone space has to be treated as if it were the Next Big Thing That Everybody Has To Copy Lest They Die. Ballmer dissed the iPhone because that's what Ballmer does, the iPhone was successful because it was innovative, powerful and easy to use, and because it benefited from iPod/iTunes Store, and later the App Store, tie ins.
The iPhone entered a market without an iPhone. The Pre doesn't have that luxury.
And it's pretty clear that Apple has a long term plan for the iPhone, as a device and as a platform. I seriously doubt that the appearance of any given new shiny has Jobs or his people in any particular frenzy.
Really, I'm having a hard time understanding what it is you're seeing in the demoes that has you so convinced that there's been some kind of seismic shift in the cell phone world. Palm has shown another touch screen phone with some nice UI touches. Why in the world would you imagine that that would have Apple, or Google, or anyone on the defensive?
Why? Because Jon Rubenstein is taking advantage of the competition's weaknesses and have raised the bar. Those nice UI touches as you call them are not touches at all and are brilliant ideas.
Did any of you think Palm was going to debut an OS such as this? Everybody thought it was going to be the old palm OS with a few new features and then watch in horror as the ceo committed suicide on stage or something.
I just DON'T see Apple expecting what they saw at Palm's keynote. And I don't think Apple was planning on doing any multitasking with the iphone OS.
And lets say that a few months for now Apple does do multitasking with the iphone and with such, they come up with a way to navigate similar to the pre's "cards" feature. That would mean Apple...yes APPLE would be playing catch up! Over the last several years Apple has not been the one catching up.....others were.
And then there is Palm's synergy.
I think it's amazing that the same people that can't shut up about "fan boys" and imagine that anyone that doesn't agree with them about the relative value of Apple products are members of a cult can be so indiscriminately fanboyish. And all in the same post, which takes real effort.
The way you're coming in your pants over a device that you've only every seen a few demoes of make the average Apple enthusiast look like a model of sober restraint. But, then again, it's always been the "anti-fanboys" that have been the most hysterical.
I don't know about the others but I'm not assuming anything! And I'm not taking sides either.
Palm still has to execute and it should be an interesting several months. Like the iphone 1.0 though, the Palm Pre will launch with some disadvantages. Just like the iphone 1.0 the pre will launch with......8GB of storage. 8 gigs was great in 2007 for a debut iphone but this is 2009.
for 2009 8 gigs will just not cut it. And get this, the pre does NOT have expandable memory unlike past palm products.
That is a MISTAKE imo. And something that might bite them in the butt down the line.
I think they are copying Apple's playbook a bit too much. If they debuted with 1 gig...yes one gig of storage but have expandable memory then they would have a killer product. But people will have to wait for a 2nd gen model if they want more storage.
I would be shouting at Jon Rubenstein about this if I had the opportunity.
EDIT: Dang, the original iphone debuted with 4 gigs right? Wow, two years goes by fast.