Im new to the forums, but i just wanna share my opinions to whoever wishes to read them.
I believe apple noticed the flaw in their OS design and the iPhones hardware capabilities, they didnt calculate the amount of hardware power they needed in order to provide its users with the features they wanted and more for the years to come. The flaw that didnt allow them to implement features and still provide great battery life and fluid and easy user experience from their hardware and OS. I believe this because of the simple features that are not on the iphone.
I believe that apple has worked out a way to cut and paste, and for integrated sms, mms and IM and the rest of the features iphone users want. The only problem is that the current hardware limitation on the current iphone dont allow the software features that we want. Because of the hardware of the current iphone, apple believes its not worth the trouble to make a cripple phone, have crippled features. Dont get me wrong i believe the current iphone is powerful, but its not capable to provide apple the resources it needs in order for them to add what we want and more.
I believe apple has made everything that we want and much more, but are testing it on their next upcoming phone device. Also the reason why they haven't released their promised and past due Push Notification System is because the whole badge alert idea was not worth the trouble on the current phone, so they improved the whole idea and will probably release it for their next phone device with a much better Notification System.
Yeah I also believe iphone 3.0 will be just as you say. But I'm just not used to seeing someone other than Apple debut a product that is superior.
Palm beat them to the punch with the multitasking. I know iphone 3.0 will be superior but its just that it needs to be WAY SUPERIOR for Apple to keep the reputation of skating to where the puck is going to be.
I belive that apple has something new, something so big that its making them ignore the request of iphone users. I hope apple is listening to the request of features and implement them on a device in a way that would make me buy it from day one. I will wait and see what happens, but the Palm Pre has me wishing i had one. Its either the Pre or the next iphone, whichever suites and impresses me more.
I think it's amazing that the same people that can't shut up about "fan boys" and imagine that anyone that doesn't agree with them about the relative value of Apple products are members of a cult can be so indiscriminately fanboyish. And all in the same post, which takes real effort.
The way you're coming in your pants over a device that you've only every seen a few demoes of make the average Apple enthusiast look like a model of sober restraint. But, then again, it's always been the "anti-fanboys" that have been the most hysterical.
I forgot all about the multitasking. That made me drool also. It's not the demo that makes me drool, it's the listed features. The demo just showed the phone ease of use so for me, this phone will have ease of use combined with some sweet features.. ability to run multiple programs at once, check. Integrated messaging, check, multi touch screen, check, physical keyboard, check. can play music, videos, take pictures, do what other phones do, check.
Yeah I also believe iphone 3.0 will be just as you say. But I'm just not used to seeing someone other than Apple debut a product that is superior.
Palm beat them to the punch with the multitasking. I know iphone 3.0 will be superior but its just that it needs to be WAY SUPERIOR for Apple to keep the reputation of skating to where the puck is going to be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMatatan
I belive that apple has something new, something so big that its making them ignore the request of iphone users. I hope apple is listening to the request of features and implement them on a device in a way that would make me buy it from day one. I will wait and see what happens, but the Palm Pre has me wishing i had one. Its either the Pre or the next iphone, whichever suites and impresses me more.
I think Palm choose the worst time to release their new phone. My prediction with the next iPhone (hardware wise) are HD video recording (better camera), 802.11n, front camera, faster processor, and longer battery life. These are the only things I can think of in term of hardware.
I think Palm choose the worst time to release their new phone. My prediction with the next iPhone (hardware wise) are HD video recording (better camera), 802.11n, front camera, and longer battery life. These are the only things I can think of in term of hardware.
There is no worse time to release a new phone. It's done all the time and this new phone will still do stuff the new iphone will not do (multitasking anyone?). might sound like a minor feature to you but imagine if your apple computer could not multitask but windows could... you'd switch to windows in a heartbeat. I predict after the pre, people will not be able to imagine living in a world where phones do not multitask becuase i gurantee you.. palm will see sales forcing all other handset makers to implement multitask just like apple has forced all handset makers to implement multi-touch (and multi task is a way bigger feature than multi-touch).
Where is the innovation - the vision? Palm has basically integrated the iPhone's OS into it's product and expanded on it by adding a few new features. Dazzling I tell ya! At least now we understand why Apple has been able to swoop in and take the cell phone industry by surprise: The major players are unimaginative - mundane.
The people want a revolutionary new product not an iPhone clone.
So is there any reason to believe that web-based apps won't be just as big of a flop on the Pre as they were on the iPhone?
I think they will be unsuccessful for a number of reasons. Performance is one because they are using javascript code. Another is flexibility - there's only so much you can actually do with web languages. I think the most important aspect is code protection. If you develop a really useful program, people can see your code and they don't have to pay for it. No point in having an app store when none of the code is in binary form.
There is also a vast amount of legacy code available today in desktop software that can't be ported to web app form, mainly for intellectual property reasons but also development effort. This means that apps come out very small and featureless. Not much better than widgets, which are based on the same technology.
They would probably have been better off partnering with Adobe and delivering a Flash-based OS. This way developers can to some level protect their content and they'd have much more powerful programming and interface tools.
Pre apps are not web apps like iPhone 1 apps. Just because they are written in javascript with html/css markup does not make them web apps.
All apps shown in the demo - that includes email, the calendar, the photo app and the dial app - were written this way, so I doubt there are concerns about flexibility.
Only thing this approach leaves behind is games but palm will probably have to release a binary sdk for that, too, but personally I couldn't care less about games.
Quote:
I think the most important aspect is code protection. If you develop a really useful program, people can see your code and they don't have to pay for it. No point in having an app store when none of the code is in binary form.
how stupid is that, just look at the vast amounts of (paid) open source software, already available javascript browser apps available for desktop browsers or easily decompilable software written in java, .net- or scripting-languages.
Where is the innovation - the vision? Palm has basically integrated the iPhone's OS into it's product and expanded on it by added a few new features. Dazzling I tell ya! At least now we understand why Apple has been able to swoop in and take the cell phone industry by surprise: The major players are unimaginative - mundane.
The people want a revolutionary new product not an iPhone clone.
I didn't know the iphone multitasked, or that it had integrated messaging or that it had stero bluetooth, or that had cut and paste.. man, you learn something new everyday!!!.
Usually, when a product comes out to compete with the iphone, apple fans pooh pooh it.. the palm pre is the first product that will actually make an impact. Apple fans may pooh pooh it, but apple itself wouldn't. Apple will have to step up their game and they will. Nothing can really kill the iphone but competitors can certainly make apple more agile.
I didn't know the iphone multitasked, or that it had integrated messaging or that it had stero bluetooth, or that had cut and paste.. man, you learn something new everyday!!!.
I didn't know the iPhone had those features either. \
I didn't know the iPhone had those features either. \
Yes, so when you say the pre is not revolutionary, you just blowing smoke up your ass right?.
cause multitasking on a phone is revolutionary, integrated messaging is revolutionary.
Like i said, apple fans can pooh pooh all they want.. people will buy this phone.. i'm willing to make a bet that this phone sales will set records (if the pricing is reasonable.. maybe under 400).
Remember, the iphone was initially $600+ and it was successful. The palm pre will be successfull, it will not kill the iphone (apple fans are too dedicated for the iphone to die).. don't know if it will be bigger than iphone but it will leapfrog many iphone competitors and immediately become the top competitor to the iphone. Also, palm is planning different models (i read they are planning one with a virtual keyboard).
The Pre is evolutionary, not revolutionary... big difference.
What Apple did to the phone is revolutionary. Now everyone is expanding off of that.
I believe you also asked where the innovation is. I realize that apple fans have to propagandize against the pre.... it's what microsoft did against the iphone before they even saw it and look how that worked out.. do you really believe going on a message board and claiming that the pre has no innovation or is not revolutionary will depress sales of the pre when it comes out?.. ask microsoft how will that strategy worked when they did that against apple. I can't wait for synergy to be exploited.. imagine, a corporate app where a company can reach you by any means without knowing how you are connected. I work at a company where i am required to be on corporate IM. Imagine the company wants to send a IM message to me stating an important meeting about to start.. they can send it via desktop IM with link.. if i close my instant messaging or am not available via IM. it automatically becomes a text message with a link. Powerful. There are tons of innovative apps that can be built on top of synergy. Also the apps will be updated via the web constantly so you always have the latest version. Allows a company to deploy the newest version of their corporate app and implement application policy. if it's possible to integrate synergy with realtime GPS, could be interesting.
I can tell you right now that Jon Rubenstein's plan is NOT for a company to come and buy palm. They are in this to the bitter end. And I don't think its going to be a sad ending for them. They just might come back from the dead.
Rubenstein is more or less only there to design the new phone though, and Colligan is a heartless old-time business guy with an inferiority complex running a company "on death's door."
It's very common for companies on their last legs to get infusions of venture capital as investor's bet on a long-shot retreat from the edge of the abyss. On the few occasions when this actually happens and the stock goes up, it's very hard to ignore the one moment when as an investor you could get all your money back and not lose anything simply by selling the company at that point.
I'm not saying it *will* necessarily happen, but while Rubenstein is in his lab cooing over the details of the product, Colligan is almost certainly weighing his options vis-a-vis a sale of the company. Even if he eventually decides not to do it, he would be foolish not to at least think about it.
The inventors and designers of the computer world often get screwed by their corporate masters in this way.
I realize that apple fans have to propagandize against the pre.... it's what microsoft did against the iphone before they even saw it and look how that worked out.. do you really believe going on a message board and claiming that the pre has no innovation or is not revolutionary will depress sales of the pre when it comes out?..
That's just silly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnurse
if it's possible to integrate synergy with realtime GPS, could be interesting.
Does the Pre out perform the iPhone 3G in every capacity of the phone.
Based on the specs and every review I've read it does. Not to mention a demo that made the iPhone look like the Newton of it's days.
The Newton couldn't copy and paste either but it did really bad hand writing recognition.
FanBoy Flamers need not reply.
I can see how you are angry, but this post is beyond the pale in terms of calling white black and hoping that no one will notice. As another old mac user, I can tell you that you are wrong on most of this.
1) No way of knowing if the pre outperforms the iPhone, you are just making that up at this point.
2) the demo was good but hardly blows away the iPhone or anything. More like they have solved similar problems in a different way (and sometimes in the exact same way).
3) the Newton had cut and paste.
4) The handwriting recognition was not that bad (yes I used it), and was pretty much fixed in the second update if I remember correctly, but by that time the media had already vilified it and the legend of bad recognition stuck.
The Newton failed because of a whole nexus of things. It was heavy, it was many years ahead of it's time (no average person would ever buy one or see a need to), it was expensive, and (at first) it was buggy.
"Regular" people are being drawn into using mobile computers and smart phones today only because computers themselves are far more ubiquitous, and the portable computers do several things that the average person actually needs. Most importantly, they make phone calls, and play music and video. When the Newton was out, it had none of those features. It was a geek-toy for those that could see the future. Hell most folks didn't even have cell phones then or email.
Comments
Im new to the forums, but i just wanna share my opinions to whoever wishes to read them.
I believe apple noticed the flaw in their OS design and the iPhones hardware capabilities, they didnt calculate the amount of hardware power they needed in order to provide its users with the features they wanted and more for the years to come. The flaw that didnt allow them to implement features and still provide great battery life and fluid and easy user experience from their hardware and OS. I believe this because of the simple features that are not on the iphone.
I believe that apple has worked out a way to cut and paste, and for integrated sms, mms and IM and the rest of the features iphone users want. The only problem is that the current hardware limitation on the current iphone dont allow the software features that we want. Because of the hardware of the current iphone, apple believes its not worth the trouble to make a cripple phone, have crippled features. Dont get me wrong i believe the current iphone is powerful, but its not capable to provide apple the resources it needs in order for them to add what we want and more.
I believe apple has made everything that we want and much more, but are testing it on their next upcoming phone device. Also the reason why they haven't released their promised and past due Push Notification System is because the whole badge alert idea was not worth the trouble on the current phone, so they improved the whole idea and will probably release it for their next phone device with a much better Notification System.
Yeah I also believe iphone 3.0 will be just as you say. But I'm just not used to seeing someone other than Apple debut a product that is superior.
Palm beat them to the punch with the multitasking. I know iphone 3.0 will be superior but its just that it needs to be WAY SUPERIOR for Apple to keep the reputation of skating to where the puck is going to be.
I think it's amazing that the same people that can't shut up about "fan boys" and imagine that anyone that doesn't agree with them about the relative value of Apple products are members of a cult can be so indiscriminately fanboyish. And all in the same post, which takes real effort.
The way you're coming in your pants over a device that you've only every seen a few demoes of make the average Apple enthusiast look like a model of sober restraint. But, then again, it's always been the "anti-fanboys" that have been the most hysterical.
I forgot all about the multitasking. That made me drool also. It's not the demo that makes me drool, it's the listed features. The demo just showed the phone ease of use so for me, this phone will have ease of use combined with some sweet features.. ability to run multiple programs at once, check. Integrated messaging, check, multi touch screen, check, physical keyboard, check. can play music, videos, take pictures, do what other phones do, check.
Yeah I also believe iphone 3.0 will be just as you say. But I'm just not used to seeing someone other than Apple debut a product that is superior.
Palm beat them to the punch with the multitasking. I know iphone 3.0 will be superior but its just that it needs to be WAY SUPERIOR for Apple to keep the reputation of skating to where the puck is going to be.
I belive that apple has something new, something so big that its making them ignore the request of iphone users. I hope apple is listening to the request of features and implement them on a device in a way that would make me buy it from day one. I will wait and see what happens, but the Palm Pre has me wishing i had one. Its either the Pre or the next iphone, whichever suites and impresses me more.
I think Palm choose the worst time to release their new phone. My prediction with the next iPhone (hardware wise) are HD video recording (better camera), 802.11n, front camera, faster processor, and longer battery life. These are the only things I can think of in term of hardware.
I think Palm choose the worst time to release their new phone. My prediction with the next iPhone (hardware wise) are HD video recording (better camera), 802.11n, front camera, and longer battery life. These are the only things I can think of in term of hardware.
There is no worse time to release a new phone. It's done all the time and this new phone will still do stuff the new iphone will not do (multitasking anyone?). might sound like a minor feature to you but imagine if your apple computer could not multitask but windows could... you'd switch to windows in a heartbeat. I predict after the pre, people will not be able to imagine living in a world where phones do not multitask becuase i gurantee you.. palm will see sales forcing all other handset makers to implement multitask just like apple has forced all handset makers to implement multi-touch (and multi task is a way bigger feature than multi-touch).
The people want a revolutionary new product not an iPhone clone.
So is there any reason to believe that web-based apps won't be just as big of a flop on the Pre as they were on the iPhone?
I think they will be unsuccessful for a number of reasons. Performance is one because they are using javascript code. Another is flexibility - there's only so much you can actually do with web languages. I think the most important aspect is code protection. If you develop a really useful program, people can see your code and they don't have to pay for it. No point in having an app store when none of the code is in binary form.
There is also a vast amount of legacy code available today in desktop software that can't be ported to web app form, mainly for intellectual property reasons but also development effort. This means that apps come out very small and featureless. Not much better than widgets, which are based on the same technology.
They would probably have been better off partnering with Adobe and delivering a Flash-based OS. This way developers can to some level protect their content and they'd have much more powerful programming and interface tools.
All apps shown in the demo - that includes email, the calendar, the photo app and the dial app - were written this way, so I doubt there are concerns about flexibility.
Only thing this approach leaves behind is games but palm will probably have to release a binary sdk for that, too, but personally I couldn't care less about games.
I think the most important aspect is code protection. If you develop a really useful program, people can see your code and they don't have to pay for it. No point in having an app store when none of the code is in binary form.
how stupid is that, just look at the vast amounts of (paid) open source software, already available javascript browser apps available for desktop browsers or easily decompilable software written in java, .net- or scripting-languages.
Where is the innovation - the vision? Palm has basically integrated the iPhone's OS into it's product and expanded on it by added a few new features. Dazzling I tell ya! At least now we understand why Apple has been able to swoop in and take the cell phone industry by surprise: The major players are unimaginative - mundane.
The people want a revolutionary new product not an iPhone clone.
I didn't know the iphone multitasked, or that it had integrated messaging or that it had stero bluetooth, or that had cut and paste.. man, you learn something new everyday!!!.
I didn't know the iphone multitasked, or that it had integrated messaging or that it had stero bluetooth, or that had cut and paste.. man, you learn something new everyday!!!.
I didn't know the iPhone had those features either.
I didn't know the iPhone had those features either.
Yes, so when you say the pre is not revolutionary, you just blowing smoke up your ass right?.
cause multitasking on a phone is revolutionary, integrated messaging is revolutionary.
Like i said, apple fans can pooh pooh all they want.. people will buy this phone.. i'm willing to make a bet that this phone sales will set records (if the pricing is reasonable.. maybe under 400).
Remember, the iphone was initially $600+ and it was successful. The palm pre will be successfull, it will not kill the iphone (apple fans are too dedicated for the iphone to die).. don't know if it will be bigger than iphone but it will leapfrog many iphone competitors and immediately become the top competitor to the iphone. Also, palm is planning different models (i read they are planning one with a virtual keyboard).
Yes, so when you say the pre is not revolutionary, you just blowing smoke up your ass right?.
cause multitasking on a phone is revolutionary, integrated messaging is revolutionary.
The Pre is evolutionary, not revolutionary... big difference.
What Apple has brought to the mobile phone industry is revolutionary. Now everyone is expanding off of that.
The Pre is evolutionary, not revolutionary... big difference.
What is your definition of revolutionary?.
I thought revolutionary is introducing features not found anywhere..
can you find a phone that multitask?..or one with integrated messaging?.
Evolutionary is when you improve an already existing feature.. i wasn't aware that multitasking on a phone already existed..., silly me.
The Pre is evolutionary, not revolutionary... big difference.
What Apple did to the phone is revolutionary. Now everyone is expanding off of that.
I believe you also asked where the innovation is. I realize that apple fans have to propagandize against the pre.... it's what microsoft did against the iphone before they even saw it and look how that worked out.. do you really believe going on a message board and claiming that the pre has no innovation or is not revolutionary will depress sales of the pre when it comes out?.. ask microsoft how will that strategy worked when they did that against apple. I can't wait for synergy to be exploited.. imagine, a corporate app where a company can reach you by any means without knowing how you are connected. I work at a company where i am required to be on corporate IM. Imagine the company wants to send a IM message to me stating an important meeting about to start.. they can send it via desktop IM with link.. if i close my instant messaging or am not available via IM. it automatically becomes a text message with a link. Powerful. There are tons of innovative apps that can be built on top of synergy. Also the apps will be updated via the web constantly so you always have the latest version. Allows a company to deploy the newest version of their corporate app and implement application policy. if it's possible to integrate synergy with realtime GPS, could be interesting.
You mean macdailynews?
I can tell you right now that Jon Rubenstein's plan is NOT for a company to come and buy palm. They are in this to the bitter end. And I don't think its going to be a sad ending for them. They just might come back from the dead.
Rubenstein is more or less only there to design the new phone though, and Colligan is a heartless old-time business guy with an inferiority complex running a company "on death's door."
It's very common for companies on their last legs to get infusions of venture capital as investor's bet on a long-shot retreat from the edge of the abyss. On the few occasions when this actually happens and the stock goes up, it's very hard to ignore the one moment when as an investor you could get all your money back and not lose anything simply by selling the company at that point.
I'm not saying it *will* necessarily happen, but while Rubenstein is in his lab cooing over the details of the product, Colligan is almost certainly weighing his options vis-a-vis a sale of the company. Even if he eventually decides not to do it, he would be foolish not to at least think about it.
The inventors and designers of the computer world often get screwed by their corporate masters in this way.
I realize that apple fans have to propagandize against the pre.... it's what microsoft did against the iphone before they even saw it and look how that worked out.. do you really believe going on a message board and claiming that the pre has no innovation or is not revolutionary will depress sales of the pre when it comes out?..
That's just silly.
if it's possible to integrate synergy with realtime GPS, could be interesting.
Agreed.
Last question.
Does the Pre out perform the iPhone 3G in every capacity of the phone.
Based on the specs and every review I've read it does. Not to mention a demo that made the iPhone look like the Newton of it's days.
The Newton couldn't copy and paste either but it did really bad hand writing recognition.
FanBoy Flamers need not reply.
I can see how you are angry, but this post is beyond the pale in terms of calling white black and hoping that no one will notice. As another old mac user, I can tell you that you are wrong on most of this.
1) No way of knowing if the pre outperforms the iPhone, you are just making that up at this point.
2) the demo was good but hardly blows away the iPhone or anything. More like they have solved similar problems in a different way (and sometimes in the exact same way).
3) the Newton had cut and paste.
4) The handwriting recognition was not that bad (yes I used it), and was pretty much fixed in the second update if I remember correctly, but by that time the media had already vilified it and the legend of bad recognition stuck.
The Newton failed because of a whole nexus of things. It was heavy, it was many years ahead of it's time (no average person would ever buy one or see a need to), it was expensive, and (at first) it was buggy.
"Regular" people are being drawn into using mobile computers and smart phones today only because computers themselves are far more ubiquitous, and the portable computers do several things that the average person actually needs. Most importantly, they make phone calls, and play music and video. When the Newton was out, it had none of those features. It was a geek-toy for those that could see the future. Hell most folks didn't even have cell phones then or email.