Apple with just ONE phone with just ONE provider shook up the entire industry and took #1 position in the US and #3 worldwide and held it for quite some time.
Now, in a lousy economy, RIM offers a Wal-Mart-esque promotion on their ancient e-mail/texting machines and they manage to get into a top spot in Q1. And so far only Q1.
Are we supposed to be impressed that a company that has been in business forever, that has produced the Storm-flop, has managed not to suck for once??
Well, it is all about perspective. RIM made money on selling the phones, and gets a monthly stipend as well. The carriers make money over the contract, since the consumer is spending more money.
RIM sold twice as many phones as Apple. Their margins are historically better than Apple's (no idea yet what impact the BOGO deal might have on it). It is nothing to sneeze at!
At this point (as others have said), Apple may be approaching saturation with potential AT&T customers for the iPhone.
Either the Blackberries are highly overpriced when they are sold at regular price, or they are losing money with this promotion.
RIM likely lost less from the promotion, due to a warehouse full of devices--arguably more than 4 million--that would otherwise have gone unsold/unshipped.
Quote:
RIM [...] should just get that sarcastic, slow clap for pulling off a cunning stunt.
I always wondered why Apple hasn't played the patriot card--"Buy American." I got nothing but love for our brothers and sisters from the Great White North, but hard times is hard times. Americans are ragging on corporations for sending jobs and money overseas, then they go out and buy a foreign smart phone. Yeah, I know, the iPhone is made in China, but at least the profit ends up here at Apple and AT&T, not to Canada. And Blackberry's syncing servers are also up there are they not?
I tried this approach with my California college a while back when they were trying to drive all Macs off campus. I asked them why the heck they were sending money to Seattle where Microsoft's state business tax goes to support Washington's schools. Some of the money they spend on Macs comes back to support our college through California state business tax.
Come on Apple, a subtle campaign that gently hints at supporting your own country in buying U.S. owned Apple might be worth a try.
I always wondered why Apple hasn't played the patriot card--"Buy American." I got nothing but love for our brothers and sisters from the Great White North, but hard times is hard times. Americans are ragging on corporations for sending jobs and money overseas, then they go out and buy a foreign smart phone. Yeah, I know, the iPhone is made in China, but at least the profit ends up here at Apple and AT&T, not to Canada. And Blackberry's syncing servers are also up there are they not?
I tried this approach with my California college a while back when they were trying to drive all Macs off campus. I asked them why the heck they were sending money to Seattle where Microsoft's state business tax goes to support Washington's schools. Some of the money they spend on Macs comes back to support our college through California state business tax.
Come on Apple, a subtle campaign that gently hints at supporting your own country in buying U.S. owned Apple might be worth a try.
That might be intertpreted as an act of desperation- ask Chrylser.
Why does every discussion on the articles around here wind up in this tone? Are we supposed to be impressed by you in any way?
The point of this article is to show that RIM got more BB's into more hands.
No it isn't.
The title:
BlackBerry unseats iPhone as most popular smartphone in Q1
it's set up as A vs. B. It's set up as a competition. It doesn't read: "Blackberry sells well this quarter." It's calling out the iPhone. That's how the article/author wants to play it.
Thank god- someone else like me. A small phone is so much easier to carry in your pocket- agreed. And our signal is so much better than the iPhone as well. We are in a win .win situation. And we don't need to recharge TWICE A DAY. Luv my Touch though. The Touch is the future- the iPhone is so passe. No need to pay carriers such extravagant fees in the future.
That might be intertpreted as an act of desperation- ask Chrylser.
I guess you missed the subtle part. I wouldn't want a big ugly flag-waving campaign built around this notion. Apple is masterful at making its message disarmingly funny without being mean spirited. Can't you just see it? "Hi, I'm an iPhone." "And I'm a Blackberry." I won't even go to the RIM job jokes . . . . Okay, contest: cast the two actors to play the two devices. Anyone . . . ?
bought my wife a 16GB 2 months ago, for myself i'm waiting until the summer when the next version comes out and the next gen phones from other manufacturers. my company just bought 150 Blackberry Curve 8330's and 8530i's or something for $.99 a piece to replace our ancient 7520's.
Apple's problem is that everyone knows the next version is coming out in the summer and it's a waste of money buying it right now for $299. With blackberries they have 20 different models hitting the market at different times of the year
I'm a fan of Apple products; have been for 20 years; the G3 is brilliant because of what I no longer cart around: watch, alarm clock, dictionaries, PDA, calendar, weather report, iPod, camera, photo library, google, tube/metro maps, and so much more, all in one device. It's a must-have for the well-traveled, June will raise the bar again. It's not just me. Everywhere I go in the UK, I see iPhones. The knowing glance that iPhone owners share often says, "this is the coolest thing ever"
How RIM grabbed market share when faced with such a game-changing device as the iPhone can only be explained by the 2:1 promotion; that won't last for much longer; be prepared for another tumble in RIMM's share price when that day of reckoning comes. If I were RIMM, I'd be terrified
I've had an iPhone for just a few months now and it's seriously changed my life. I've never dropped a call, reception quality has been amazing. I've only managed to use about 60MB of data every month, so, no biggie there.
On the flip-side I have had opportunity to use the BB Pearl a few times and I always find the user interface to be learned - as opposed to the intuitive pick-up-and-play interface of the iPhone. I'm not saying BB is bad, but I doubt I could make the transition.
iPhone is my TV Guide, my GPS Nav, my USB Flash Drive, my Bible (literally, like at church), my Sports Scores, my Phone, my Calendar, my email, my To-Do list, my Camera, Calculator, Dictionary, Thesaurus, my Family Budgeting tool, remote for Music & Presentations, and several options for filling time during staff meetings (current fav? Baseball Lite). The best part is that all of this only cost me $4.98.
And with MS Office being developed for iPhone this thing is going to, essentially, be a Tablet PC.
I'm not slamming Blackberry, or RIM (Go Canada, eh!) but I haven't found the device that can do all this as simply an intuitively as my iPhone. When there is one I may jump ship, but until then... I'm quite happy with my set-up.
They are not called Cracberry for no reason.... People who have them are addicted to them...
However, RIM did not give them away, it was the provider who gave them away to get people locked into a data plan and was we saw from Q1 AT&T and other said their sales of data plans were way up.
Until the iphone came out the majority of data plans were sold to business customer with the Iphone this has been shifting to the every day user.
So RIM won this round of service provides trying to gain more market share of the data plan market. Face it Apple would not allow them to give iPhones away because when that happens it devalues the product and Apple will not allow this to happen. The understand the the price is the price and as soon as you discount or give things away it devalues the product and people will not pay later.
Face, RIM has been talk into the slippery slop of the race to the bottom.
The other things people miss it generally people swap phones like cloths since most phones they do not have money and time invested in it. However with the iphone, when people get use to all those great apps and all their music is there, and they have it fully integrated into their lives they will not want to deal with moving everything to another phone. Apple's ecosystem is larger then any other company so buying into apple get you far more.
I'm a fan of Apple products; have been for 20 years; the G3 is brilliant because of what I no longer cart around: watch, alarm clock, dictionaries, PDA, calendar, weather report, iPod, camera, photo library, google, tube/metro maps, and so much more, all in one device. It's a must-have for the well-traveled, June will raise the bar again. It's not just me. Everywhere I go in the UK, I see iPhones. The knowing glance that iPhone owners share often says, "this is the coolest thing ever"
How RIM grabbed market share when faced with such a game-changing device as the iPhone can only be explained by the 2:1 promotion; that won't last for much longer; be prepared for another tumble in RIMM's share price when that day of reckoning comes. If I were RIMM, I'd be terrified
RIM has more different phones on more different carriers than Apple, how any one expects one iphone to outsell all their models is laughable.
Lets not forget that Android took the #5 slot. There are no WinMo devices on the list.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610
I can carry my iPhone in the fornt pocket of my jeans just fine, and that's with a silicone case. Just turn it horizontally, though it really depends on the pocket shape. It won't break. The iPhone is incredibly durable.
You had better get used to this size, though, until we get that "foldable" screen technology (quite a ways off.)
He either must only use his Touch at home or Teckstudian logic doesn't let him see that a Touch plus his little cell phone takes up considerably more room than just an iPhone. On top of that, he hasn't been clamoring for a small iPhone but for a Verizon iPhone so we know that his previous post is complete BS, as usual. At least he is consistent with his halfwittedness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by macologist
If RIM gives away their Blackberries, and jumps ahead in one Q, that's a more of a stunt! Look at Apple's ##! Those people who bought iPhones had a choice to get RIM freebie or pay for iPhone, and they chose to pay! Thus RIM's victory is FAKE! RIM bought that "medal", they didn't win it! It's like taking a cab to the finish line at the marathon!
Regardless of how they did it they still beat out Apple with one phone type, the 83xx. The fact that it is all carriers, a lower price point, BYGOF, no required dataplan is irrelevant to the category NPD monitored. RiM took the poll position fair and square.
All marketing and all sales are a stunt. You try to make your product look more attractive to the buyer and adjust the price to optimize your net profit. Unit sales do not equal profits, yet despite RiM's strategy they also upped their profits by 25% from the previous year's quarter. That is proof they are not weakening like Moto did with their massive giveaways.
For some perspective, Apple took in $9.06B for AppleTV and iPhone sales while RiM took in $3.46B for their company. I expect RiM to beat out Apple in unit sales for the next quarter, too, as people prepare for the next iPhone launch, but then the next two quarters should be Apple's. For the top slot, not for the most units sold.
Quote:
DOES LTE = 4G = end of GSM and CDMA WORLDWIDE? GLOBAL ROAMING? If so, how will the carriers compete? Will it be The Wars of Exclusive Contracts, or strictly Price Plan Wars? Hopefully it's just Hardware/OS Wars!
LTE is the beginning of the end for GSM and CDMA, as well as WCDMA and CDMA2000, but it's a very slow obsolescence. The carriers will compete the way they are now. They way Verizon and Sprint still compete using the same network type and the way most countries compete using the same network. Unless we get some laws in place in the US phones will still be lockable to a carrier if they choose. LTE changes nothing on this front, but it's nothing you have to worry about for many years.
june/july marks the first round of expiring contracts. all the early adopters. who waited in line for hours or days.
these are the people who are supposedly going to abandon the iphone.
Absolutely! I've only invested over $100 in apps so that when I finally decide to replace my 1st Gen iPhone (which amazingly still feels like new thanks to all the apps) I'll be sure to decide to buy a Touch so I don't waste all that money and then buy a CrackBerry to replace my iPhone because, heck, I've got a pocket on either side of my pants - both should be full!!
I always wondered why Apple hasn't played the patriot card--"Buy American." I got nothing but love for our brothers and sisters from the Great White North, but hard times is hard times. Americans are ragging on corporations for sending jobs and money overseas, then they go out and buy a foreign smart phone. Yeah, I know, the iPhone is made in China, but at least the profit ends up here at Apple and AT&T, not to Canada. And Blackberry's syncing servers are also up there are they not?
I tried this approach with my California college a while back when they were trying to drive all Macs off campus. I asked them why the heck they were sending money to Seattle where Microsoft's state business tax goes to support Washington's schools. Some of the money they spend on Macs comes back to support our college through California state business tax.
Come on Apple, a subtle campaign that gently hints at supporting your own country in buying U.S. owned Apple might be worth a try.
Maybe because "buying American" is xenophobic, old-fashioned, rude, etc.?
Apple is finally trying to become a global company and having a moderate amount of success at it. Why would they now start a series of advertisements that were explicitly designed to piss off the largest and fastest growing segments of their market?
Even if you ignore the fact that "buying American" is counter-productive even for Americans and just doesn't work anymore, it's a stupid idea because if it did work it would sink the biggest portion of the market.
Just FYI also ... It's incredibly insulting to most "Americans" to refer to USA citizens as "American" anyway. There are millions of "Americans" in North and South America that are not citizens of the USA. The USA is not really "America" it's just one of the American countries.
That's his gestalt- that daft mantra- over and over no matter what the product.
Pay it no mind.
Slow day on Neowin?
I give credit where it's due. And Apple deserves a helluva lot. If it weren't for them we'd still be in the dark ages of tech. That of course isn't to say that some other company wouldn't have stepped in to innovate and implement like nothing else (history isn't inevitable), but I sure as hell don't see anyone even remotely in the same class as Apple today. Perhaps Google, or even Sony. But I don't have a Google 3G phone, nor an Google OS that's tops in design and usability, nor anything Sony that clearly differentiates it in terms of form and function from everything else.
This is AppleInsider. We support Apple, we're Apple fans. That isn't to say we can't vent and criticize once in a while. but overall, I think our enuthsiasm is well-warranted.
In light of the iPhone's achievements and the impact it has had on not just the industry but on tech as a whole, you'd be well within reason to be just a bit nonplussed by RIM's Q1 showing. Show me RIM sustaining this momentum through the Q4 home stretch, and then I'll tip my hat to them, and not just as a fellow Canadian. But even then I'll still use the bargain-bin argument because it'll likely be as valid then as it is now.
Comments
Cheap and plentiful tends to sell.
Apple with just ONE phone with just ONE provider shook up the entire industry and took #1 position in the US and #3 worldwide and held it for quite some time.
Now, in a lousy economy, RIM offers a Wal-Mart-esque promotion on their ancient e-mail/texting machines and they manage to get into a top spot in Q1. And so far only Q1.
Are we supposed to be impressed that a company that has been in business forever, that has produced the Storm-flop, has managed not to suck for once??
Well, it is all about perspective. RIM made money on selling the phones, and gets a monthly stipend as well. The carriers make money over the contract, since the consumer is spending more money.
RIM sold twice as many phones as Apple. Their margins are historically better than Apple's (no idea yet what impact the BOGO deal might have on it). It is nothing to sneeze at!
At this point (as others have said), Apple may be approaching saturation with potential AT&T customers for the iPhone.
Either the Blackberries are highly overpriced when they are sold at regular price, or they are losing money with this promotion.
RIM likely lost less from the promotion, due to a warehouse full of devices--arguably more than 4 million--that would otherwise have gone unsold/unshipped.
RIM [...] should just get that sarcastic, slow clap for pulling off a cunning stunt.
Indeed, RIM is a stunning c...
I tried this approach with my California college a while back when they were trying to drive all Macs off campus. I asked them why the heck they were sending money to Seattle where Microsoft's state business tax goes to support Washington's schools. Some of the money they spend on Macs comes back to support our college through California state business tax.
Come on Apple, a subtle campaign that gently hints at supporting your own country in buying U.S. owned Apple might be worth a try.
I always wondered why Apple hasn't played the patriot card--"Buy American." I got nothing but love for our brothers and sisters from the Great White North, but hard times is hard times. Americans are ragging on corporations for sending jobs and money overseas, then they go out and buy a foreign smart phone. Yeah, I know, the iPhone is made in China, but at least the profit ends up here at Apple and AT&T, not to Canada. And Blackberry's syncing servers are also up there are they not?
I tried this approach with my California college a while back when they were trying to drive all Macs off campus. I asked them why the heck they were sending money to Seattle where Microsoft's state business tax goes to support Washington's schools. Some of the money they spend on Macs comes back to support our college through California state business tax.
Come on Apple, a subtle campaign that gently hints at supporting your own country in buying U.S. owned Apple might be worth a try.
That might be intertpreted as an act of desperation- ask Chrylser.
Why does every discussion on the articles around here wind up in this tone? Are we supposed to be impressed by you in any way?
The point of this article is to show that RIM got more BB's into more hands.
No it isn't.
The title:
BlackBerry unseats iPhone as most popular smartphone in Q1
it's set up as A vs. B. It's set up as a competition. It doesn't read: "Blackberry sells well this quarter." It's calling out the iPhone. That's how the article/author wants to play it.
And I'll play it that way as well.
Thank god- someone else like me. A small phone is so much easier to carry in your pocket- agreed. And our signal is so much better than the iPhone as well. We are in a win .win situation. And we don't need to recharge TWICE A DAY. Luv my Touch though. The Touch is the future- the iPhone is so passe. No need to pay carriers such extravagant fees in the future.
The touch doesn't come with internet everywhere.
...The point of this article is to show that RIM got more BB's into more hands...
Reminds me of The Michael Scott Paper Company.
Although, I think carriers could easily afford to give away certain BBs and iPhones and still make a healthy profit over the life of the contract.
That might be intertpreted as an act of desperation- ask Chrylser.
I guess you missed the subtle part. I wouldn't want a big ugly flag-waving campaign built around this notion. Apple is masterful at making its message disarmingly funny without being mean spirited. Can't you just see it? "Hi, I'm an iPhone." "And I'm a Blackberry." I won't even go to the RIM job jokes . . . . Okay, contest: cast the two actors to play the two devices. Anyone . . . ?
Apple's problem is that everyone knows the next version is coming out in the summer and it's a waste of money buying it right now for $299. With blackberries they have 20 different models hitting the market at different times of the year
How RIM grabbed market share when faced with such a game-changing device as the iPhone can only be explained by the 2:1 promotion; that won't last for much longer; be prepared for another tumble in RIMM's share price when that day of reckoning comes. If I were RIMM, I'd be terrified
was that haiku or something?
Lol.
On the flip-side I have had opportunity to use the BB Pearl a few times and I always find the user interface to be learned - as opposed to the intuitive pick-up-and-play interface of the iPhone. I'm not saying BB is bad, but I doubt I could make the transition.
iPhone is my TV Guide, my GPS Nav, my USB Flash Drive, my Bible (literally, like at church), my Sports Scores, my Phone, my Calendar, my email, my To-Do list, my Camera, Calculator, Dictionary, Thesaurus, my Family Budgeting tool, remote for Music & Presentations, and several options for filling time during staff meetings (current fav? Baseball Lite). The best part is that all of this only cost me $4.98.
And with MS Office being developed for iPhone this thing is going to, essentially, be a Tablet PC.
I'm not slamming Blackberry, or RIM (Go Canada, eh!) but I haven't found the device that can do all this as simply an intuitively as my iPhone. When there is one I may jump ship, but until then... I'm quite happy with my set-up.
However, RIM did not give them away, it was the provider who gave them away to get people locked into a data plan and was we saw from Q1 AT&T and other said their sales of data plans were way up.
Until the iphone came out the majority of data plans were sold to business customer with the Iphone this has been shifting to the every day user.
So RIM won this round of service provides trying to gain more market share of the data plan market. Face it Apple would not allow them to give iPhones away because when that happens it devalues the product and Apple will not allow this to happen. The understand the the price is the price and as soon as you discount or give things away it devalues the product and people will not pay later.
Face, RIM has been talk into the slippery slop of the race to the bottom.
The other things people miss it generally people swap phones like cloths since most phones they do not have money and time invested in it. However with the iphone, when people get use to all those great apps and all their music is there, and they have it fully integrated into their lives they will not want to deal with moving everything to another phone. Apple's ecosystem is larger then any other company so buying into apple get you far more.
I'm a fan of Apple products; have been for 20 years; the G3 is brilliant because of what I no longer cart around: watch, alarm clock, dictionaries, PDA, calendar, weather report, iPod, camera, photo library, google, tube/metro maps, and so much more, all in one device. It's a must-have for the well-traveled, June will raise the bar again. It's not just me. Everywhere I go in the UK, I see iPhones. The knowing glance that iPhone owners share often says, "this is the coolest thing ever"
How RIM grabbed market share when faced with such a game-changing device as the iPhone can only be explained by the 2:1 promotion; that won't last for much longer; be prepared for another tumble in RIMM's share price when that day of reckoning comes. If I were RIMM, I'd be terrified
RIM has more different phones on more different carriers than Apple, how any one expects one iphone to outsell all their models is laughable.
I can carry my iPhone in the fornt pocket of my jeans just fine, and that's with a silicone case. Just turn it horizontally, though it really depends on the pocket shape. It won't break. The iPhone is incredibly durable.
You had better get used to this size, though, until we get that "foldable" screen technology (quite a ways off.)
He either must only use his Touch at home or Teckstudian logic doesn't let him see that a Touch plus his little cell phone takes up considerably more room than just an iPhone. On top of that, he hasn't been clamoring for a small iPhone but for a Verizon iPhone so we know that his previous post is complete BS, as usual. At least he is consistent with his halfwittedness.
If RIM gives away their Blackberries, and jumps ahead in one Q, that's a more of a stunt! Look at Apple's ##! Those people who bought iPhones had a choice to get RIM freebie or pay for iPhone, and they chose to pay! Thus RIM's victory is FAKE! RIM bought that "medal", they didn't win it! It's like taking a cab to the finish line at the marathon
Regardless of how they did it they still beat out Apple with one phone type, the 83xx. The fact that it is all carriers, a lower price point, BYGOF, no required dataplan is irrelevant to the category NPD monitored. RiM took the poll position fair and square.
All marketing and all sales are a stunt. You try to make your product look more attractive to the buyer and adjust the price to optimize your net profit. Unit sales do not equal profits, yet despite RiM's strategy they also upped their profits by 25% from the previous year's quarter. That is proof they are not weakening like Moto did with their massive giveaways.
For some perspective, Apple took in $9.06B for AppleTV and iPhone sales while RiM took in $3.46B for their company. I expect RiM to beat out Apple in unit sales for the next quarter, too, as people prepare for the next iPhone launch, but then the next two quarters should be Apple's. For the top slot, not for the most units sold.
DOES LTE = 4G = end of GSM and CDMA WORLDWIDE? GLOBAL ROAMING? If so, how will the carriers compete? Will it be The Wars of Exclusive Contracts, or strictly Price Plan Wars? Hopefully it's just Hardware/OS Wars
LTE is the beginning of the end for GSM and CDMA, as well as WCDMA and CDMA2000, but it's a very slow obsolescence. The carriers will compete the way they are now. They way Verizon and Sprint still compete using the same network type and the way most countries compete using the same network. Unless we get some laws in place in the US phones will still be lockable to a carrier if they choose. LTE changes nothing on this front, but it's nothing you have to worry about for many years.
agreed.
june/july marks the first round of expiring contracts. all the early adopters. who waited in line for hours or days.
these are the people who are supposedly going to abandon the iphone.
Absolutely! I've only invested over $100 in apps so that when I finally decide to replace my 1st Gen iPhone (which amazingly still feels like new thanks to all the apps) I'll be sure to decide to buy a Touch so I don't waste all that money and then buy a CrackBerry to replace my iPhone because, heck, I've got a pocket on either side of my pants - both should be full!!
I always wondered why Apple hasn't played the patriot card--"Buy American." I got nothing but love for our brothers and sisters from the Great White North, but hard times is hard times. Americans are ragging on corporations for sending jobs and money overseas, then they go out and buy a foreign smart phone. Yeah, I know, the iPhone is made in China, but at least the profit ends up here at Apple and AT&T, not to Canada. And Blackberry's syncing servers are also up there are they not?
I tried this approach with my California college a while back when they were trying to drive all Macs off campus. I asked them why the heck they were sending money to Seattle where Microsoft's state business tax goes to support Washington's schools. Some of the money they spend on Macs comes back to support our college through California state business tax.
Come on Apple, a subtle campaign that gently hints at supporting your own country in buying U.S. owned Apple might be worth a try.
Maybe because "buying American" is xenophobic, old-fashioned, rude, etc.?
Apple is finally trying to become a global company and having a moderate amount of success at it. Why would they now start a series of advertisements that were explicitly designed to piss off the largest and fastest growing segments of their market?
Even if you ignore the fact that "buying American" is counter-productive even for Americans and just doesn't work anymore, it's a stupid idea because if it did work it would sink the biggest portion of the market.
Just FYI also ... It's incredibly insulting to most "Americans" to refer to USA citizens as "American" anyway. There are millions of "Americans" in North and South America that are not citizens of the USA. The USA is not really "America" it's just one of the American countries.
That's his gestalt- that daft mantra- over and over no matter what the product.
Pay it no mind.
Slow day on Neowin?
I give credit where it's due. And Apple deserves a helluva lot. If it weren't for them we'd still be in the dark ages of tech. That of course isn't to say that some other company wouldn't have stepped in to innovate and implement like nothing else (history isn't inevitable), but I sure as hell don't see anyone even remotely in the same class as Apple today. Perhaps Google, or even Sony. But I don't have a Google 3G phone, nor an Google OS that's tops in design and usability, nor anything Sony that clearly differentiates it in terms of form and function from everything else.
This is AppleInsider. We support Apple, we're Apple fans. That isn't to say we can't vent and criticize once in a while. but overall, I think our enuthsiasm is well-warranted.
In light of the iPhone's achievements and the impact it has had on not just the industry but on tech as a whole, you'd be well within reason to be just a bit nonplussed by RIM's Q1 showing. Show me RIM sustaining this momentum through the Q4 home stretch, and then I'll tip my hat to them, and not just as a fellow Canadian. But even then I'll still use the bargain-bin argument because it'll likely be as valid then as it is now.
Cheers.