Air has nothing to do with it. This works by electromagnetic induction. It would work in a vacuum.
Fine - magnetism isn't as efficient as copper. Inefficiency is often expressed as heat. Transformers are large inductors - feel an active wall-wart - it gets quite warm when you are pulling a load from it.
Now instead of one inductor, you are going to have two. Not a very green solution - no doubt Greenpeace will be all over Palm just like they have been with Apple.
And what feature is this Pre bringing that haven't been out in phones for years, name one feature?
A gesture area as well as a multitouch screen. A system wide search that also searches within the cloud. A 900 MHz processor which will allow using the cards multi app multitAsking feature a pleasant experience. Don't listen to all the BS about battery life. iPhone spent implement multitasking because the phone lags while using the SMS app... The phone would explode if they tried to have more then 1 app open at once. I tried the jailbreak app 'backrounder' to allow multitasking and it just lags so much it's rediculous. And even if it does affect battery life why does apple get to choose how much battery life I get to use?!? I am getting a Pre I really can't wait to toss this crap iPhone 3g
However, since I can't get the iPhone with my Sprint, and you will be able to get a Web OS/Palm Pre with your AT&T, what will you say then?
Nothing, I live in Canada.
But I still don't understand your point. AT&T has the better network, generally speaking, so why would I possibly want to change to a new phone so that I can use an inferior network?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macintosh_Next
If rumors are true, AT&T is getting a Pal Eos that has the WebOS (although it seems to be a Centero replacement, not a powerhouse) but still, thats the reason the Pre has a chance.
Big deal. If there was any reason to, Apple could unlock the iPhone or make a CDMA version as well. The fact that they haven't done so speaks volumes about the reality of this "problem". If this really was the problem you're claiming it is, why isn't the G1 the best selling phone in the world?
The phone would explode if they tried to have more then 1 app open at once.
So if I'm listening to a song with the iPod app, then switch over and start surfing with Safari is Safari now playing my song, or is the iPod app running in the background?
Fine - magnetism isn't as efficient as copper. Inefficiency is often expressed as heat. Transformers are large inductors - feel an active wall-wart - it gets quite warm when you are pulling a load from it.
Now instead of one inductor, you are going to have two. Not a very green solution - no doubt Greenpeace will be all over Palm just like they have been with Apple.
It's not that simple either. It's not that magnetism isn't as efficient as copper, that statement makes no sense. You're talking about two different things. Copper is a conductor, and electromagnetism is a force.
Efficiency is determined by coupling. I don't want to give a course on basic electricity here. Do I have to?
All phones and rechargers get hot. I don't see why this would get any hotter. It's all about the rate of charge.
Prior technologies for inductive charging have used lower frequencies and older drive technologies, and generally charge slowly and generate heat for most portable electronics,[citation needed] though the technology is used in some electric toothbrushes and wet/dry electric shavers, partly for the advantage that the battery contacts can be completely sealed to prevent exposure to water.
Newer approaches with ultra thin coils, higher frequencies and optimized drive electronics provide chargers and receivers that are compact, efficient[citation needed] and can be integrated into mobile devices or batteries with minimal change. These technologies provide charging time that are the same as wired approaches and are finding their way into mobile devices rapidly.
So we were right about the way it used to be and you are correct about the new inductive charging. That answers my questions about that for the time being. Still would like to see the comparisons when the Pre arrives.
Given the hyper-competitive environment that the Pre is launching into, and the necessity of doing well out of the gate, I'd have to assume that Palm didn't think they could actually make enough money simply selling the Pre for $199
Oh, I'm pretty sure Palm had nothing to do with this. After all, Sprint is the ones with the rebate plan, and they're the ones paying for the phones in the first place.
From Sprint's perspective, there's no downside - if people don't apply for the rebate then hey, free money. From Palm's perspective there's a lot of downside. If people are upset about Sprint's dealings, this will rub off on the Pre. One more reason not to have selected Sprint as their launch partner, IMHO.
Speaking of charging, how well does everyone think the "wireless charger" that supposedly comes with the pre will work?
I do, but a better question is "why"? Seriously, if this was a mat on the tabletop that's one thing, but in fact the Pre has to be carefully aligned with the charger to work at all - and that's just for charging, it doesn't do data or anything else. So you replace a small multi-function cable with a much larger single-function cable. Why-tech at its finest. Looks cool though, I'll give it that.
From Sprint's perspective, there's no downside - if people don't apply for the rebate then hey, free money. From Palm's perspective there's a lot of downside. If people are upset about Sprint's dealings, this will rub off on the Pre. One more reason not to have selected Sprint as their launch partner, IMHO.
Sprint has a downside, too. There is a 50% higher out-of-pocket expense at the time you buy the device compared to most other smartphones. I think they will be dropping the rebate plan in favour of a $199 Pre before the next iPhone arrives.
Newer approaches with ultra thin coils, higher frequencies and optimized drive electronics provide chargers and receivers that are compact, efficient[citation needed] and can be integrated into mobile devices or batteries with minimal change. These technologies provide charging time that are the same as wired approaches and are finding their way into mobile devices rapidly.
Yes, that's what I'm saying. There's nothing inherent in inductive charging that's inefficient. As I've tried to explain to DocNo42, it's a matter of coupling. Everything being equal, how close can they get the concerned parts of the recharger and device being charged? The closer, the more effective it will be. It's why transformer coils are wound together, and have very thin insulation.
NIf I'm happily chatting away on Palringo, and I get an email, I have to shut Palringo down completely, logging me off, to go and read that email.
As I noted earlier, this problem could be eliminated by having Palringo be a plug-in in the Phone app. It would give you 100% of the functionality you ask for here, without having to have the full Palringo app running in the background. The library would be loaded if, and when, it needed to be, and not eat a single cycle otherwise.
I do, but a better question is "why"? Seriously, if this was a mat on the tabletop that's one thing, but in fact the Pre has to be carefully aligned with the charger to work at all - and that's just for charging, it doesn't do data or anything else. So you replace a small multi-function cable with a much larger single-function cable. Why-tech at its finest. Looks cool though, I'll give it that.
Since this is just for recharging, I don't see a problem. The stand will be made to fit the phone properly, so that it sits to its best advantage.
You ask for a good reason? Well, how about the fact that no plug and socket will be needed? Meaning that there isn't anything to break when a recharge only is needed?
Sprint has a downside, too. There is a 50% higher out-of-pocket expense at the time you buy the device compared to most other smartphones. I think they will be dropping the rebate plan in favour of a $199 Pre before the next iPhone arrives.
Since this is just for recharging, I don't see a problem. The stand will be made to fit the phone properly, so that it sits to its best advantage.
No, that's exactly my point. The cable I use to charge my iPhone is not just a charger, it's also the data cable. When I plug in, I automatically sync all my mail, apps, music, everything.
But on the Pre, I have to drag all my music to a data card and then put that into the phone? Yuk! I get all the cable-attachness badness with none of the data syncing goodess. Sign me up!
Now a brick with a built in low-power WiFi point that USB's from there to computer and sync software that auto-detected when you plugged in and set up a secure, randomized channel? Now THAT would actually be useful.
Quote:
You ask for a good reason? Well, how about the fact that no plug and socket will be needed? Meaning that there isn't anything to break when a recharge only is needed?
Nothing to break... like the brick itself? No really, I'm all ears, how is this thing plugged into the wall any different than the cable plugged into the wall? If you clip the cable the phone is still going to end up crashing to the floor. This isn't like the MagSafe, from what I've seen it's attached quite strongly to the charger.
No, that's exactly my point. The cable I use to charge my iPhone is not just a charger, it's also the data cable. When I plug in, I automatically sync all my mail, apps, music, everything.
But on the Pre, I have to drag all my music to a data card and then put that into the phone? Yuk! I get all the cable-attachness badness with none of the data syncing goodess. Sign me up!
Now a brick with a built in low-power WiFi point that USB's from there to computer and sync software that auto-detected when you plugged in and set up a secure, randomized channel? Now THAT would actually be useful.
I think we're talking about two different things here. I'm addressing the inductive recharger, not their normal method of moving data around.
Quote:
Nothing to break... like the brick itself? No really, I'm all ears, how is this thing plugged into the wall any different than the cable plugged into the wall? If you clip the cable the phone is still going to end up crashing to the floor. This isn't like the MagSafe, from what I've seen it's attached quite strongly to the charger.
Maury
How about breaking Apple's cable, the socket on the phone, and yes, their little wall recharger?
Let's keep to one thing at a time. every time I recharge Apple's phone from their little wall recharger, I have to plug the cable into TWO sockets. One in the recharger, and one in the phone. That's four connectors that can break.
With an inductive recharger, there NO connectors or cables to break.
Yes, the recharger can break, just as Apple's can.
So if I'm listening to a song with the iPod app, then switch over and start surfing with Safari is Safari now playing my song, or is the iPod app running in the background?
This is multitasking to you? On the pre you can listen to your iPod while looking up directions and browsing on the web and flipping through apps to see if I got the email you were waiting for. On the iPhone of u get an address in an email and you look up directions then go back to mail app to double check it has to load again, then u go back to the maps app and u miss your turn because that has to load again. iPhone sucks
Rebates are no fun thats for sure, but I have to wonder if Sprint is going to go the way of a prepaid debit card vs an actual check. How many people are going to be upset when they charged $299.00 plus tax on their credit card only to find out that they might get a prepaid debit card instead. Not easy to make a credit card payment with a debit card. Guess we will find out soon enough.
Numbers released by industry publications give those numbers. I've even seen numbers up to 70% unredeemed.
fair enough, i stand corrected. I had no idea that many people were so happy to leave money on the table, lol. That said, i'm happy to purchase my mobile phones from Apple, who does not require mail-in rebates (for their phones, at least....as for their printers, they made the rebate process extremely easy - online redemption and the check is in your mailbox in under a week).
Comments
Air has nothing to do with it. This works by electromagnetic induction. It would work in a vacuum.
Fine - magnetism isn't as efficient as copper. Inefficiency is often expressed as heat. Transformers are large inductors - feel an active wall-wart - it gets quite warm when you are pulling a load from it.
Now instead of one inductor, you are going to have two. Not a very green solution - no doubt Greenpeace will be all over Palm just like they have been with Apple.
And what feature is this Pre bringing that haven't been out in phones for years, name one feature?
A gesture area as well as a multitouch screen. A system wide search that also searches within the cloud. A 900 MHz processor which will allow using the cards multi app multitAsking feature a pleasant experience. Don't listen to all the BS about battery life. iPhone spent implement multitasking because the phone lags while using the SMS app... The phone would explode if they tried to have more then 1 app open at once. I tried the jailbreak app 'backrounder' to allow multitasking and it just lags so much it's rediculous. And even if it does affect battery life why does apple get to choose how much battery life I get to use?!? I am getting a Pre I really can't wait to toss this crap iPhone 3g
However, since I can't get the iPhone with my Sprint, and you will be able to get a Web OS/Palm Pre with your AT&T, what will you say then?
Nothing, I live in Canada.
But I still don't understand your point. AT&T has the better network, generally speaking, so why would I possibly want to change to a new phone so that I can use an inferior network?
If rumors are true, AT&T is getting a Pal Eos that has the WebOS (although it seems to be a Centero replacement, not a powerhouse) but still, thats the reason the Pre has a chance.
Big deal. If there was any reason to, Apple could unlock the iPhone or make a CDMA version as well. The fact that they haven't done so speaks volumes about the reality of this "problem". If this really was the problem you're claiming it is, why isn't the G1 the best selling phone in the world?
Maury
The phone would explode if they tried to have more then 1 app open at once.
So if I'm listening to a song with the iPod app, then switch over and start surfing with Safari is Safari now playing my song, or is the iPod app running in the background?
Fine - magnetism isn't as efficient as copper. Inefficiency is often expressed as heat. Transformers are large inductors - feel an active wall-wart - it gets quite warm when you are pulling a load from it.
Now instead of one inductor, you are going to have two. Not a very green solution - no doubt Greenpeace will be all over Palm just like they have been with Apple.
It's not that simple either. It's not that magnetism isn't as efficient as copper, that statement makes no sense. You're talking about two different things. Copper is a conductor, and electromagnetism is a force.
Efficiency is determined by coupling. I don't want to give a course on basic electricity here. Do I have to?
All phones and rechargers get hot. I don't see why this would get any hotter. It's all about the rate of charge.
Nothing, I live in Canada.
Best line in the entire thread
Given the hyper-competitive environment that the Pre is launching into, and the necessity of doing well out of the gate, I'd have to assume that Palm didn't think they could actually make enough money simply selling the Pre for $199
Oh, I'm pretty sure Palm had nothing to do with this. After all, Sprint is the ones with the rebate plan, and they're the ones paying for the phones in the first place.
From Sprint's perspective, there's no downside - if people don't apply for the rebate then hey, free money. From Palm's perspective there's a lot of downside. If people are upset about Sprint's dealings, this will rub off on the Pre. One more reason not to have selected Sprint as their launch partner, IMHO.
Maury
Best line in the entire thread
Hehe
Speaking of charging, how well does everyone think the "wireless charger" that supposedly comes with the pre will work?
I do, but a better question is "why"? Seriously, if this was a mat on the tabletop that's one thing, but in fact the Pre has to be carefully aligned with the charger to work at all - and that's just for charging, it doesn't do data or anything else. So you replace a small multi-function cable with a much larger single-function cable. Why-tech at its finest. Looks cool though, I'll give it that.
From Sprint's perspective, there's no downside - if people don't apply for the rebate then hey, free money. From Palm's perspective there's a lot of downside. If people are upset about Sprint's dealings, this will rub off on the Pre. One more reason not to have selected Sprint as their launch partner, IMHO.
Sprint has a downside, too. There is a 50% higher out-of-pocket expense at the time you buy the device compared to most other smartphones. I think they will be dropping the rebate plan in favour of a $199 Pre before the next iPhone arrives.
Yes, that's what I'm saying. There's nothing inherent in inductive charging that's inefficient. As I've tried to explain to DocNo42, it's a matter of coupling. Everything being equal, how close can they get the concerned parts of the recharger and device being charged? The closer, the more effective it will be. It's why transformer coils are wound together, and have very thin insulation.
NIf I'm happily chatting away on Palringo, and I get an email, I have to shut Palringo down completely, logging me off, to go and read that email.
As I noted earlier, this problem could be eliminated by having Palringo be a plug-in in the Phone app. It would give you 100% of the functionality you ask for here, without having to have the full Palringo app running in the background. The library would be loaded if, and when, it needed to be, and not eat a single cycle otherwise.
Maury
I do, but a better question is "why"? Seriously, if this was a mat on the tabletop that's one thing, but in fact the Pre has to be carefully aligned with the charger to work at all - and that's just for charging, it doesn't do data or anything else. So you replace a small multi-function cable with a much larger single-function cable. Why-tech at its finest. Looks cool though, I'll give it that.
Since this is just for recharging, I don't see a problem. The stand will be made to fit the phone properly, so that it sits to its best advantage.
You ask for a good reason? Well, how about the fact that no plug and socket will be needed? Meaning that there isn't anything to break when a recharge only is needed?
Sprint has a downside, too. There is a 50% higher out-of-pocket expense at the time you buy the device compared to most other smartphones. I think they will be dropping the rebate plan in favour of a $199 Pre before the next iPhone arrives.
True, true.
Since this is just for recharging, I don't see a problem. The stand will be made to fit the phone properly, so that it sits to its best advantage.
No, that's exactly my point. The cable I use to charge my iPhone is not just a charger, it's also the data cable. When I plug in, I automatically sync all my mail, apps, music, everything.
But on the Pre, I have to drag all my music to a data card and then put that into the phone? Yuk! I get all the cable-attachness badness with none of the data syncing goodess. Sign me up!
Now a brick with a built in low-power WiFi point that USB's from there to computer and sync software that auto-detected when you plugged in and set up a secure, randomized channel? Now THAT would actually be useful.
You ask for a good reason? Well, how about the fact that no plug and socket will be needed? Meaning that there isn't anything to break when a recharge only is needed?
Nothing to break... like the brick itself? No really, I'm all ears, how is this thing plugged into the wall any different than the cable plugged into the wall? If you clip the cable the phone is still going to end up crashing to the floor. This isn't like the MagSafe, from what I've seen it's attached quite strongly to the charger.
Maury
No, that's exactly my point. The cable I use to charge my iPhone is not just a charger, it's also the data cable. When I plug in, I automatically sync all my mail, apps, music, everything.
But on the Pre, I have to drag all my music to a data card and then put that into the phone? Yuk! I get all the cable-attachness badness with none of the data syncing goodess. Sign me up!
Now a brick with a built in low-power WiFi point that USB's from there to computer and sync software that auto-detected when you plugged in and set up a secure, randomized channel? Now THAT would actually be useful.
I think we're talking about two different things here. I'm addressing the inductive recharger, not their normal method of moving data around.
Nothing to break... like the brick itself? No really, I'm all ears, how is this thing plugged into the wall any different than the cable plugged into the wall? If you clip the cable the phone is still going to end up crashing to the floor. This isn't like the MagSafe, from what I've seen it's attached quite strongly to the charger.
Maury
How about breaking Apple's cable, the socket on the phone, and yes, their little wall recharger?
Let's keep to one thing at a time. every time I recharge Apple's phone from their little wall recharger, I have to plug the cable into TWO sockets. One in the recharger, and one in the phone. That's four connectors that can break.
With an inductive recharger, there NO connectors or cables to break.
Yes, the recharger can break, just as Apple's can.
So if I'm listening to a song with the iPod app, then switch over and start surfing with Safari is Safari now playing my song, or is the iPod app running in the background?
This is multitasking to you? On the pre you can listen to your iPod while looking up directions and browsing on the web and flipping through apps to see if I got the email you were waiting for. On the iPhone of u get an address in an email and you look up directions then go back to mail app to double check it has to load again, then u go back to the maps app and u miss your turn because that has to load again. iPhone sucks
Numbers released by industry publications give those numbers. I've even seen numbers up to 70% unredeemed.
fair enough, i stand corrected. I had no idea that many people were so happy to leave money on the table, lol. That said, i'm happy to purchase my mobile phones from Apple, who does not require mail-in rebates (for their phones, at least....as for their printers, they made the rebate process extremely easy - online redemption and the check is in your mailbox in under a week).