the only - and I mean the only - company, which never claimed they're making "iPhone killer" was RIM.
Why so childish whim to kill?
At various times, both the Bold and the Storm were being vetted as iPhone "killers". Neither has gotten the sales to come close to that though. We're going to see a Storm 2 shortly.
Balogna. WiMax is dead, and it has been since LTE came down the pipe. This is the dead cat bounce.
It's not quite dead yet. But if it had been pushed more several years ago, before LTE started to be seen as a new way to go, it would have had a chance with Sprint.
Quote:
LTE offers higher speed, faster inter-tower switching, was designed for cells from the start, and has a long string of backward compatibility all the way down to the original GSM. WiMax is slower, was originally designed for static last-mile hauling to fixed in-house points, and has zero backward compatibility. Everyone in the world is already well along their LTE rollout plans, exactly one carrier in the world is rolling out WiMax.
This means that, as a cell network, LTE is going to be supported by every handset in the world, and WiMax by... anyone at all? Really, you'd have to be a moron to invest in this tech. Which says, to me, a whole lot about Sprint's desperation.
Maury
I'm not arguing this at all.
But times change. Often, whomever gets there first has an advantage. Sprint could have been there first, but they chickened out. Now, I feel it's too late.
At various times, both the Bold and the Storm were being vetted as iPhone "killers". Neither has gotten the sales to come close to that though. We're going to see a Storm 2 shortly.
Then they do, too? It's already annoying, all their chirps "killer, killer" coming from every last bird hole...
Then they do, too? It's already annoying, all their chirps "killer, killer" coming from every last bird hole...
Also, don't forget that, except for that idiot from Palm, none of the other manufacturers expressly came out and said that their phone was an iPhone "killer", or used another phrase like that.
It's been the blogisphere and the press that's been using those kinds of words.
Imagine what would happen if a company came out and claimed that their new phone was an iPhone "killer", and it failed to gain significant traction? They would be dragged down pretty quickly, and would be highly embarrassed.
That's why Palm took down their own leader when he made those dumb remarks about the iPhone. Their lawyers had to issue a retraction of what he had said.
Also, don't forget that, except for that idiot from Palm, none of the other manufacturers expressly came out and said that their phone was an iPhone "killer", or used another phrase like that.
It's been the blogisphere and the press that's been using those kinds of words.
Imagine what would happen if a company came out and claimed that their new phone was an iPhone "killer", and it failed to gain significant traction? They would be dragged down pretty quickly, and would be highly embarrassed.
That's why Palm took down their own leader when he made those dumb remarks about the iPhone. Their lawyers had to issue a retraction of what he had said.
Ah, this was exactly what I meant from the beginning. It was company's official, who spoke that crap out. And I had impression, various LG/Samsung & Co also did.
I believe - OK, I am afraid - Palm will get exactly what you said above. They must not launch this product, while everyone's awaiting iPhone 3. And they actually have no choice.
Ah, this was exactly what I meant from the beginning. It was company's official, who spoke that crap out. And I had impression, various LG/Samsung & Co also did.
I believe - OK, I am afraid - Palm will get exactly what you said above. They must not launch this product, while everyone's awaiting iPhone 3. And they actually have no choice.
I just read an article, where the author is enthusiastic about the Pre, but also states that Palm and Sprint may have been forced into releasing it when they are, because of the iPhone 3 launch.
He hopes it won't have the firmware defects the Storm had for so long after release, because it's coming out too early.
Dude, it's even easier to not deal with rebates in the first place!
Why should I have to pay higher sakes taxes and let a company float on my money for a month or more?
Because they know a certain percentage of people won't follow through on the rebate, that's why! They aren't doing it as a favor to you.
Dude!
So why you are here pitching it as if it's some positive, fun activity is beyond me. Rebates suck, and are basically a gimmick. Palm/Sprint can't hang and they are having to resort to a sales gimmick - one that will rightly turn off a great many people.
Really? That's what you got from my posts? Can you read my other posts on it before assuming I'm "pitching it as a positive and fun activity" ??
Obviously it's far more easier not to deal with rebates. Obviously not everyone will follow through. And Obviously it's not a fun and positive experience. When did I say anything to contradict any of those previous statements?
Rebates offer companies a way to use all that money for a period of time to gain interest and make money at no cost to the customer. Rebates give companies reliable market research. Rebates are normal and you can find them in plenty of things, including Apple products.
I'm not saying I like the idea of a rebate. I'm not saying it's a good thing for anyone other than Palm. What I AM saying is that the rebate process is not as complicated as people here want to make it seem, and so people should not be afraid of it.
Really? That's what you got from my posts? Can you read my other posts on it before assuming I'm "pitching it as a positive and fun activity" ??
Obviously it's far more easier not to deal with rebates. Obviously not everyone will follow through. And Obviously it's not a fun and positive experience. When did I say anything to contradict any of those previous statements?
Rebates offer companies a way to use all that money for a period of time to gain interest and make money at no cost to the customer. Rebates give companies reliable market research. Rebates are normal and you can find them in plenty of things, including Apple products.
I'm not saying I like the idea of a rebate. I'm not saying it's a good thing for anyone other than Palm. What I AM saying is that the rebate process is not as complicated as people here want to make it seem, and so people should not be afraid of it.
As has been pointed out before, there is a cost to the consumer. The requirement, and this is by law in most places, is that the consumer must pay the taxes on the full price. It may not be much, but it is still a price. For a $100 rebate in NYC that's $8.65, and about to go up.
I just read an article, where the author is enthusiastic about the Pre, but also states that Palm and Sprint may have been forced into releasing it when they are, because of the iPhone 3 launch.
He hopes it won't have the firmware defects the Storm had for so long after release, because it's coming out too early.
Obvious. The launch before iPhone 3 announcement? The half the market is waiting for iPhone 3, whence no big sales at the beginning. The launch after that? iPhone 3 will beat them. Bugs? The game's over this very moment.
N97 is in the same position.
I even think, Apple, if they wanted it badly, could delay the iPhone 3 presentation and would crush Palm's and Nokia's sales without lifting a finger.
Obvious. The launch before iPhone 3 announcement? The half the market is waiting for iPhone 3, whence no big sales at the beginning. The launch after that? iPhone 3 will beat them. Bugs? The game's over this very moment.
N97 is in the same position.
I even think, Apple, if they wanted it badly, could delay the iPhone 3 presentation and would crush Palm's and Nokia's sales without lifting a finger.
Yeah, it's always a bad time to be releasing something right before Apple releases the same kind of product. The best time would have been in January. Late enough for the iPhone hype to have worn off from the summer release, and sales will have slowed down from to the holiday peak. Much earlier than the new iPhone hype to have really gotten into gear.
Of course, it's negative that it's also the slowest selling time of the year, but at least that would be taken into account in the press reporting of its sales.
Right now, even the slightest problem with the phone, or service, will be magnified.
As has been pointed out before, there is a cost to the consumer. The requirement, and this is by law in most places, is that the consumer must pay the taxes on the full price. It may not be much, but it is still a price. For a $100 rebate in NYC that's $8.65, and about to go up.
Good point, but I should have clarified what I meant. When all that money is sitting in Palm's bank account waiting to be sent back, Palm is making interest off it. This interest comes at no cost to anyone, so Palm is making money at no cost to the customer in this regard.
Paying taxes on the full purchase price is a major flaw in any rebate program. Appliances or expensive electronics all could have rebates, but given the price is so high, often the sales tax cuts into the rebate by a significant amount.
So after sales tax for Virginia, lets say the final price is more like 320. The money they get back will actually only be 80 bucks when taking sales tax out of the equation.
I've never said the rebate was a good thing. I've simply tried to explain from a business perspective why companies do it (including Apple, lets not forget) and that it's not as complicated of a process as people think, especially with Sprint phones. I think it will hurt Pre sales to an extent, but not as bad as people think. If someone wants a Pre, they'll put up with it.
In addition, Apple will be prancing out both software and hardware developers with new products that only the new ver. 3 OS will support. Products that no other phone can possibly have.
People will look at this and drool.
All Apple needs to show is some plug-in game controller that the phone and Touch sits in, and the "game" is over.
Also, when pictures of the two phones side by side come out, showing the noticeably smaller screen, people will start to go; "Hmmm!".
Those thinking the iPhone screen is a bit too small for easy reading will easily see the Pre's screen is obviously smaller still.
And unless they've fixed the problem of the top row of keys being too close to the bottom of the overlying front part, typing will be a problem, as a couple of those using it for a short time noticed.
Good point, but I should have clarified what I meant. When all that money is sitting in Palm's bank account waiting to be sent back, Palm is making interest off it. This interest comes at no cost to anyone, so Palm is making money at no cost to the customer in this regard.
Paying taxes on the full purchase price is a major flaw in any rebate program. Appliances or expensive electronics all could have rebates, but given the price is so high, often the sales tax cuts into the rebate by a significant amount.
So after sales tax for Virginia, lets say the final price is more like 320. The money they get back will actually only be 80 bucks when taking sales tax out of the equation.
I've never said the rebate was a good thing. I've simply tried to explain from a business perspective why companies do it (including Apple, lets not forget) and that it's not as complicated of a process as people think, especially with Sprint phones. I think it will hurt Pre sales to an extent, but not as bad as people think. If someone wants a Pre, they'll put up with it.
If someone wants something badly enough, they will put up with almost everything in order to get it. I'm sure that there will be people who don't care, or don't even understand the tax situation even as they are paying for it.
All Apple needs to show is some plug-in game controller that the phone and Touch sits in, and the "game" is over.
Oh, that's particularly true!
Anecdotically, SFR (the french carrier) launched iPhone recently. They made many marketing mistakes, their audience is rather "proletariat". Youngsters cursed them and called them names around each corner. That was nearly a catastrophe. They negotiated urgently the deal with MTV to have it directly via their TV application.
The storm's calmed down instantly. "Super! Impec!" (great!)
Even I was surprised... I mean it's NY Daily, not some rural mid US town, or like some local newspaper advertising a movie, 5 STARS THRILLER, says Star News Nebraska. LOL, no offense if you live in Nebraska, but if you notice, when a movie does well, the overvoice says, CRITICS FORM TIME, LA TIMES, THE BOSTON GLOBE, ROLLING STONE, say.... and when it bombs, they says, CRITICS SAY and then show clips from local newspapers you never heard of, well, this is a big newspaper so it's a big deal and it's in one of the busiest towns in America, NYC.
This is multitasking to you? On the pre you can listen to your iPod while looking up directions and browsing on the web and flipping through apps to see if I got the email you were waiting for. On the iPhone of u get an address in an email and you look up directions then go back to mail app to double check it has to load again, then u go back to the maps app and u miss your turn because that has to load again. iPhone sucks
Even I was surprised... I mean it's NY Daily, not some rural mid US town, or like some local newspaper advertising a movie, 5 STARS THRILLER, says Star News Nebraska. LOL, no offense if you live in Nebraska, but if you notice, when a movie does well, the overvoice says, CRITICS FORM TIME, LA TIMES, THE BOSTON GLOBE, ROLLING STONE, say.... and when it bombs, they says, CRITICS SAY and then show clips from local newspapers you never heard of, well, this is a big newspaper so it's a big deal and it's in one of the busiest towns in America, NYC.
People who don't know much about these phones, and read this article will come away with the impression that everything he said is true. Actually, he glossed over much of his praise by not explaining exactly how these features work, or exactly what they are.
If, for example, he explained that the apps won't be much more than overblown widgets that are more limited than "real" programs, and likely won't equal the iPhone apps, how would people have voted then?
If he explained that the screen is noticeable smaller, how would people have voted?
If he mentioned that there were complaints that your fingers constantly hit the top part of the phone when you typed using the top row of keys, and it isn't known if they fixed that, how would people have voted?
Comments
the only - and I mean the only - company, which never claimed they're making "iPhone killer" was RIM.
Why so childish whim to kill?
At various times, both the Bold and the Storm were being vetted as iPhone "killers". Neither has gotten the sales to come close to that though. We're going to see a Storm 2 shortly.
Balogna. WiMax is dead, and it has been since LTE came down the pipe. This is the dead cat bounce.
It's not quite dead yet. But if it had been pushed more several years ago, before LTE started to be seen as a new way to go, it would have had a chance with Sprint.
LTE offers higher speed, faster inter-tower switching, was designed for cells from the start, and has a long string of backward compatibility all the way down to the original GSM. WiMax is slower, was originally designed for static last-mile hauling to fixed in-house points, and has zero backward compatibility. Everyone in the world is already well along their LTE rollout plans, exactly one carrier in the world is rolling out WiMax.
This means that, as a cell network, LTE is going to be supported by every handset in the world, and WiMax by... anyone at all? Really, you'd have to be a moron to invest in this tech. Which says, to me, a whole lot about Sprint's desperation.
Maury
I'm not arguing this at all.
But times change. Often, whomever gets there first has an advantage. Sprint could have been there first, but they chickened out. Now, I feel it's too late.
At various times, both the Bold and the Storm were being vetted as iPhone "killers". Neither has gotten the sales to come close to that though. We're going to see a Storm 2 shortly.
Then they do, too? It's already annoying, all their chirps "killer, killer" coming from every last bird hole...
Then they do, too? It's already annoying, all their chirps "killer, killer" coming from every last bird hole...
Also, don't forget that, except for that idiot from Palm, none of the other manufacturers expressly came out and said that their phone was an iPhone "killer", or used another phrase like that.
It's been the blogisphere and the press that's been using those kinds of words.
Imagine what would happen if a company came out and claimed that their new phone was an iPhone "killer", and it failed to gain significant traction? They would be dragged down pretty quickly, and would be highly embarrassed.
That's why Palm took down their own leader when he made those dumb remarks about the iPhone. Their lawyers had to issue a retraction of what he had said.
Also, don't forget that, except for that idiot from Palm, none of the other manufacturers expressly came out and said that their phone was an iPhone "killer", or used another phrase like that.
It's been the blogisphere and the press that's been using those kinds of words.
Imagine what would happen if a company came out and claimed that their new phone was an iPhone "killer", and it failed to gain significant traction? They would be dragged down pretty quickly, and would be highly embarrassed.
That's why Palm took down their own leader when he made those dumb remarks about the iPhone. Their lawyers had to issue a retraction of what he had said.
Ah, this was exactly what I meant from the beginning. It was company's official, who spoke that crap out. And I had impression, various LG/Samsung & Co also did.
I believe - OK, I am afraid - Palm will get exactly what you said above. They must not launch this product, while everyone's awaiting iPhone 3. And they actually have no choice.
Ah, this was exactly what I meant from the beginning. It was company's official, who spoke that crap out. And I had impression, various LG/Samsung & Co also did.
I believe - OK, I am afraid - Palm will get exactly what you said above. They must not launch this product, while everyone's awaiting iPhone 3. And they actually have no choice.
I just read an article, where the author is enthusiastic about the Pre, but also states that Palm and Sprint may have been forced into releasing it when they are, because of the iPhone 3 launch.
He hopes it won't have the firmware defects the Storm had for so long after release, because it's coming out too early.
Dude, it's even easier to not deal with rebates in the first place!
Why should I have to pay higher sakes taxes and let a company float on my money for a month or more?
Because they know a certain percentage of people won't follow through on the rebate, that's why! They aren't doing it as a favor to you.
Dude!
So why you are here pitching it as if it's some positive, fun activity is beyond me. Rebates suck, and are basically a gimmick. Palm/Sprint can't hang and they are having to resort to a sales gimmick - one that will rightly turn off a great many people.
Really? That's what you got from my posts? Can you read my other posts on it before assuming I'm "pitching it as a positive and fun activity" ??
Obviously it's far more easier not to deal with rebates. Obviously not everyone will follow through. And Obviously it's not a fun and positive experience. When did I say anything to contradict any of those previous statements?
Rebates offer companies a way to use all that money for a period of time to gain interest and make money at no cost to the customer. Rebates give companies reliable market research. Rebates are normal and you can find them in plenty of things, including Apple products.
I'm not saying I like the idea of a rebate. I'm not saying it's a good thing for anyone other than Palm. What I AM saying is that the rebate process is not as complicated as people here want to make it seem, and so people should not be afraid of it.
Really? That's what you got from my posts? Can you read my other posts on it before assuming I'm "pitching it as a positive and fun activity" ??
Obviously it's far more easier not to deal with rebates. Obviously not everyone will follow through. And Obviously it's not a fun and positive experience. When did I say anything to contradict any of those previous statements?
Rebates offer companies a way to use all that money for a period of time to gain interest and make money at no cost to the customer. Rebates give companies reliable market research. Rebates are normal and you can find them in plenty of things, including Apple products.
I'm not saying I like the idea of a rebate. I'm not saying it's a good thing for anyone other than Palm. What I AM saying is that the rebate process is not as complicated as people here want to make it seem, and so people should not be afraid of it.
As has been pointed out before, there is a cost to the consumer. The requirement, and this is by law in most places, is that the consumer must pay the taxes on the full price. It may not be much, but it is still a price. For a $100 rebate in NYC that's $8.65, and about to go up.
I just read an article, where the author is enthusiastic about the Pre, but also states that Palm and Sprint may have been forced into releasing it when they are, because of the iPhone 3 launch.
He hopes it won't have the firmware defects the Storm had for so long after release, because it's coming out too early.
Obvious. The launch before iPhone 3 announcement? The half the market is waiting for iPhone 3, whence no big sales at the beginning. The launch after that? iPhone 3 will beat them. Bugs? The game's over this very moment.
N97 is in the same position.
I even think, Apple, if they wanted it badly, could delay the iPhone 3 presentation and would crush Palm's and Nokia's sales without lifting a finger.
snip
However, am I the only one who is excited about the Pre being at Wally?
snip
yes!
Obvious. The launch before iPhone 3 announcement? The half the market is waiting for iPhone 3, whence no big sales at the beginning. The launch after that? iPhone 3 will beat them. Bugs? The game's over this very moment.
N97 is in the same position.
I even think, Apple, if they wanted it badly, could delay the iPhone 3 presentation and would crush Palm's and Nokia's sales without lifting a finger.
Yeah, it's always a bad time to be releasing something right before Apple releases the same kind of product. The best time would have been in January. Late enough for the iPhone hype to have worn off from the summer release, and sales will have slowed down from to the holiday peak. Much earlier than the new iPhone hype to have really gotten into gear.
Of course, it's negative that it's also the slowest selling time of the year, but at least that would be taken into account in the press reporting of its sales.
Right now, even the slightest problem with the phone, or service, will be magnified.
As has been pointed out before, there is a cost to the consumer. The requirement, and this is by law in most places, is that the consumer must pay the taxes on the full price. It may not be much, but it is still a price. For a $100 rebate in NYC that's $8.65, and about to go up.
Good point, but I should have clarified what I meant. When all that money is sitting in Palm's bank account waiting to be sent back, Palm is making interest off it. This interest comes at no cost to anyone, so Palm is making money at no cost to the customer in this regard.
Paying taxes on the full purchase price is a major flaw in any rebate program. Appliances or expensive electronics all could have rebates, but given the price is so high, often the sales tax cuts into the rebate by a significant amount.
So after sales tax for Virginia, lets say the final price is more like 320. The money they get back will actually only be 80 bucks when taking sales tax out of the equation.
I've never said the rebate was a good thing. I've simply tried to explain from a business perspective why companies do it (including Apple, lets not forget) and that it's not as complicated of a process as people think, especially with Sprint phones. I think it will hurt Pre sales to an extent, but not as bad as people think. If someone wants a Pre, they'll put up with it.
People will look at this and drool.
All Apple needs to show is some plug-in game controller that the phone and Touch sits in, and the "game" is over.
Also, when pictures of the two phones side by side come out, showing the noticeably smaller screen, people will start to go; "Hmmm!".
Those thinking the iPhone screen is a bit too small for easy reading will easily see the Pre's screen is obviously smaller still.
And unless they've fixed the problem of the top row of keys being too close to the bottom of the overlying front part, typing will be a problem, as a couple of those using it for a short time noticed.
Good point, but I should have clarified what I meant. When all that money is sitting in Palm's bank account waiting to be sent back, Palm is making interest off it. This interest comes at no cost to anyone, so Palm is making money at no cost to the customer in this regard.
Paying taxes on the full purchase price is a major flaw in any rebate program. Appliances or expensive electronics all could have rebates, but given the price is so high, often the sales tax cuts into the rebate by a significant amount.
So after sales tax for Virginia, lets say the final price is more like 320. The money they get back will actually only be 80 bucks when taking sales tax out of the equation.
I've never said the rebate was a good thing. I've simply tried to explain from a business perspective why companies do it (including Apple, lets not forget) and that it's not as complicated of a process as people think, especially with Sprint phones. I think it will hurt Pre sales to an extent, but not as bad as people think. If someone wants a Pre, they'll put up with it.
If someone wants something badly enough, they will put up with almost everything in order to get it. I'm sure that there will be people who don't care, or don't even understand the tax situation even as they are paying for it.
But it's just another thing to have to do.
All Apple needs to show is some plug-in game controller that the phone and Touch sits in, and the "game" is over.
Oh, that's particularly true!
Anecdotically, SFR (the french carrier) launched iPhone recently. They made many marketing mistakes, their audience is rather "proletariat". Youngsters cursed them and called them names around each corner. That was nearly a catastrophe. They negotiated urgently the deal with MTV to have it directly via their TV application.
The storm's calmed down instantly.
the Palm Pre is hot.
HOT HOT HOT.
its the only other phone that I want... Can't wait till it comes to Canada.
I will switch from the iPhone....
FWIW, this poll in NY Daily news shows Palm being desired almost 2 to 1 over next gen iPhone and 3G iphone combined...
http://www.nydailynews.com/tech_guid..._palm_pre.html
Even I was surprised... I mean it's NY Daily, not some rural mid US town, or like some local newspaper advertising a movie, 5 STARS THRILLER, says Star News Nebraska. LOL, no offense if you live in Nebraska, but if you notice, when a movie does well, the overvoice says, CRITICS FORM TIME, LA TIMES, THE BOSTON GLOBE, ROLLING STONE, say.... and when it bombs, they says, CRITICS SAY and then show clips from local newspapers you never heard of, well, this is a big newspaper so it's a big deal and it's in one of the busiest towns in America, NYC.
This is multitasking to you? On the pre you can listen to your iPod while looking up directions and browsing on the web and flipping through apps to see if I got the email you were waiting for. On the iPhone of u get an address in an email and you look up directions then go back to mail app to double check it has to load again, then u go back to the maps app and u miss your turn because that has to load again. iPhone sucks
the pre comes with an ipod? sweet deal!
FWIW, this poll in NY Daily news shows Palm being desired almost 2 to 1 over next gen iPhone and 3G iphone combined...
http://www.nydailynews.com/tech_guid..._palm_pre.html
Even I was surprised... I mean it's NY Daily, not some rural mid US town, or like some local newspaper advertising a movie, 5 STARS THRILLER, says Star News Nebraska. LOL, no offense if you live in Nebraska, but if you notice, when a movie does well, the overvoice says, CRITICS FORM TIME, LA TIMES, THE BOSTON GLOBE, ROLLING STONE, say.... and when it bombs, they says, CRITICS SAY and then show clips from local newspapers you never heard of, well, this is a big newspaper so it's a big deal and it's in one of the busiest towns in America, NYC.
People who don't know much about these phones, and read this article will come away with the impression that everything he said is true. Actually, he glossed over much of his praise by not explaining exactly how these features work, or exactly what they are.
If, for example, he explained that the apps won't be much more than overblown widgets that are more limited than "real" programs, and likely won't equal the iPhone apps, how would people have voted then?
If he explained that the screen is noticeable smaller, how would people have voted?
If he mentioned that there were complaints that your fingers constantly hit the top part of the phone when you typed using the top row of keys, and it isn't known if they fixed that, how would people have voted?
I don't take that "poll" as being useful.
the pre comes with an ipod? sweet deal!
LOL Isnt it funny how the term "mp3 player" is synonymous with ipod these days?
WiMax?! *chuckle*
Stick a fork in it.
Maury
I get 4Mbps via WiMax with the little USB dongle and around 5-6 with the base station/antenna and I'm slightly out of coverage.
/shrug.
It works pretty well for the areas it covers and VOIP is not exactly heavyweight.