I guarantee that we?ll see many references of the Pre being an iPhone killer or it not being the iPhone killer people expected or somewhere in between come June 5th. The first device the HW, OS and apps will be compared to is the iPhone. I, too, am looking forward to these comparisons and expect the device to be very fast for a mobile phone with its lighter OS, faster HW and more modern version of WebKit over the current iPhone.
Don't set your expectations too high. The Pre might be faster in Web browsing compared to the current iPhone, but I don't see any reason for it to be perceived as faster compared to the new iPhone, whenever it comes out. In many areas you will have no base for comparison, e.g. games/OpenGL. There were numerous leaks suggesting that the new iPhone will have video editing capabilities but Pre is way behind in this department. I looked through the leaked Palm sales guide and noticed that they don't stress on performance the way they did few months back. Their remaining pros are the physical keyboard (not an advantage IMO) and multitasking (a feature Apple can add to the new iPhone if they decide to). But they will lag behind in many areas. I still have no explanation on the shortage issues. It seems that Palm was really late with production and could not stock enough devices.
My expectations:
Palm already lost the opportunity to win against the iPhone. Their best hope is not to be smashed by the new iPhone.
Don't set your expectations too high. The Pre might be faster in Web browsing compared to the current iPhone, but I don't see any reason for it to be perceived as faster compared to the new iPhone, whenever it comes out. In many areas you will have no base for comparison, e.g. games/OpenGL. There were numerous leaks suggesting that the new iPhone will have video editing capabilities but Pre is way behind in this department. I looked through the leaked Palm sales guide and noticed that they don't stress on performance the way they did few months back. Their remaining pros are the physical keyboard (not an advantage IMO) and multitasking (a feature Apple can add to the new iPhone if they decide to). But they will lag behind in many areas. I still have no explanation on the shortage issues. It seems that Palm was really late with production and could not stock enough devices.
My expectations:
Palm already lost the opportunity to win against the iPhone. Their best hope is not to be smashed by the new iPhone.
We'll see real soon
It's very possible, if not likely, that they were having difficulties in production, or pre-production.
It's also possible that due to some people who tried the phone talking about the difficulty with that top row of keys being too close to the overhang of the top part of the phone, that they tried to do a slight re-design. That certainly would have held production back, successful or not.
They also seemed to commit themselves to a launch before the iPhone.
I don't like the idea of that.
While Apple no doubt had the same problem with the initial launch; remember the problems?, they weren't in contention with other phones at the time. The Pre is.
I'm not sure what would be worse, a botched launch right before the new iPhone, or a better launch a month or two after, when all the iPhone hype has died down somewhat.
I would think it would be the latter, but possibly, they are hoping their launch isn't botched, and that coming out before is too important to their plans.
To me, even if the launch goes well, it's too close. I can't imagine anyone not wanting to wait until the iPhone launch is here, whether it's just announced at the ADC, or released during the ADC.
The reportage will all be saying to wait until the iPhone is announced, no matter how good the Pre may look. They wouldn't say that later.
Don't set your expectations too high. The Pre might be faster in Web browsing compared to the current iPhone, but I don't see any reason for it to be perceived as faster compared to the new iPhone, whenever it comes out. In many areas you will have no base for comparison, e.g. games/OpenGL.
They aren’t high, I think they are quite realistic. We know the iPhone is running about a 412MHZ ARMv6 CPU with 128MB RAM which needs 64MB for the OS and we know the Pre will use a 600MHz ARMv7 with 256MB RAM. We also know that WebOS is a slimmer than OS X.
As I stated previously, the comparisons will come in as soon the devices are launched, perhaps even earlier if given to tech sites. This means that all initial comparisons will be the Pre to the current iPhone, not the future iPhone that we know little to nothing about.
As for OpenGL and games, the iPhone will win hands down, just as it will for any complex app development, but simple apps are a focus for most consumers for most tasks, which is what the Pre is going for.
Quote:
Their remaining pros are the physical keyboard (not an advantage IMO) and multitasking (a feature Apple can add to the new iPhone if they decide to). But they will lag behind in many areas. I still have no explanation on the shortage issues.
The physical keyboard doesn’t appeal to me, either, but to many it does, though it wold be much more useful for the slide-out keyboard to be in landscape mode, like the Android G1.
The multitasking, as we’ve discussed isn’t really true multitasking, but it’s good enough for most people’s needs. I think Apple will add limited proper, background apps, but only to their new device as the current and past iPhones don’t have the HW to support it. The current WebKit builds in Safari betas for both the mobile and desktop platforms do support HTML5’s DB functions, so Apple could offer a stop-gate option of allowing local Safari-based apps, like the Pre, but would they want to look like they are chasing Palm at this point?
We know the iPhone is running about a 412MHZ ARMv6 CPU with 128MB RAM which needs 64MB for the OS and we know the Pre will use a 600MHz ARMv7 with 256MB RAM. We also know that WebOS is a slimmer than OS X.
The problem is non-IT-centric customers have absolutely no idea of all that.
The problem is non-IT-centric customers have absolutely no idea of all that.
Nor should they. Palm and Sprint will do well to quickly compare the current iPhone to the Pre in terms of speed as soon as possible. There is no need to quantify and explain why the Pre is faster and how this short-term benefit is a longterm problem.
In a 30-sec commercial just show some basic comparisons. I?d guess that powering the devices on would be faster on the Pre than the iPhone since it has better HW and the OS is lighter. I?d also think opening up a webpage on the Pre would be faster than the iPhone because it already has WebKit running and it?s using a newer version of WebKit with the improved JS engine. After the commercials about background apps streaming music and whatnot, I?d start there for comparisons.
Nor should they. Palm and Sprint will do well to quickly compare the current iPhone to the Pre in terms of speed as soon as possible. There is no need to quantify and explain why the Pre is faster and how this short-term benefit is a longterm problem.
In a 30-sec commercial just show some basic comparisons. I’d guess that powering the devices on would be faster on the Pre than the iPhone since it has better HW and the OS is lighter. I’d also think opening up a webpage on the Pre would be faster than the iPhone because it already has WebKit running and it’s using a newer version of WebKit with the improved JS engine. After the commercials about background apps streaming music and whatnot, I’d start there for comparisons.
Khgm... But they can not show it in ads. It's illegal to advertise shortcomings of a competitor. Everything they're allowed to say is "faster than other phones".
Khgm... But they can not show it in ads. It's illegal to advertise shortcomings of a competitor. All they're allowed to say is "faster than other phones".
Perhaps in France, but in the US we compare products all the time in ads. As long as you are technically truthful it?s okay.
Khgm... But they can not show it in ads. It's illegal to advertise shortcomings of a competitor. Everything they're allowed to say is "faster than other phones".
Not illegal, actually, just a bit of advertising conventional wisdom (don't give the competition free advertising by mentioning them by name).
You can't lie outright and say things about the competition which aren't true-- Palm can't run ads that say "And unlike the iPhone, the Pre will never explode in your face and kill you."
Not illegal, actually, just a bit of advertising conventional wisdom (don't give the competition free advertising by mentioning them by name).
You can't lie outright and say things about the competition which aren't true-- Palm can't run ads that say "And unlike the iPhone, the Pre will never explode in your face and kill you."
The first article of the European law on comparative advertising says:
"if it is not deceiving a competitor"
N-th article of the law says: "if a competitor?s commercial brands, commercial names, other distinctive signs, goods,services, activities or circumstances are not discredited or denigrated"
OMG. I simply can't believe that! It just can't happen!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01
The first article of the European law on comparative advertising says:
"if it is not deceiving a competitor"
N-th article of the law says: "if a competitor?s commercial brands, commercial names, other distinctive signs, goods,services, activities or circumstances are not discredited or denigrated"
etc. No, it wont work.
That has absolutely no barring on the Pre being released in the US. So far, I have only heard about a US release with Sprint.
Mac is a business identifier of Apple corporation. PC is not. No PC brand mentioned in in Get A Mac ads.
They try to state any brand names when possible but plenty of the ads mentioned Vista by name because it was such an easy target after MS’ bungle. You don’t mention a competitor unless you have to, but with the Windows and the iPhone being so prominent in their respective circles the benefit of showing that your product is superior in comparison can outweigh the potential for free advertising.
Quote:
Oh, oh, sorry! It's my English again! I wrote "you can not advertise shortcomings of a competitor”
You wrote, "It's illegal to advertise shortcomings of a competitor.” when it’s been stated that it’s not illegal, it’ been shown that it is not illegal, and Lanham states nothing about shortcomings of a competitor’s product. You can’t slander a product, but being truthful about a particular shortcoming is not slander. Logically speaking, there is no reason to compare two products in an ad if you are not pointing out that one is inferior to the other in some regard.
PS: Have you not seen a single US political campaign ad? They go for the jugular! They will take anything out of context and are still within their right to use it so long as it is technically truthful. It’s quite obscene, actually.
They try to state any brand names when possible but plenty of the ads mentioned Vista by name because it was such an easy target after MS? bungle.
True, Vista was mentioned once. No comparison with Mac OS was done. No any evaluations, estimations, opinions, which might harm Vista, were sounded. Skip it, they all're much smarter with ads and legislation, than we are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
You wrote, "It's illegal to advertise shortcomings of a competitor.? when it?s been stated that it?s not illegal, it? been shown that it is not illegal, and Lanham states nothing about shortcomings of a competitor?s product. You can?t slander a product, but being truthful about a particular shortcoming is not slander. Logically speaking, there is no reason to compare two products in an ad if you are not pointing out that one is inferior to the other in some regard.
It is illegal. And the U.S. legislation strictly forbids any harm to competitor's reputation. They just allow charging incoming calls.
True, Vista was mentioned once. No comparison with Mac OS was done. No any evaluations, estimations, opinions, which might harm Vista, were sounded. Skip it, they all're much smarter with ads and legislation, than we are.
They mentioned it once and then many times after that.
Quote:
It is illegal. And the U.S. legislation strictly forbids any harm to competitor's reputation.
The Pre looks good and may do well. I doubt it will impact on the iPhone much. I won't get one but if I was given one I'd use it. I have no problem with the Pre joining in the game.
It is possible that Palm's Pre would become a cheaper alternative to Apple's iPhone, just like Microsoft's Windows smartphone. However, it is unlikely it would gain market share at a rapid rate like the iPhone.
The Pre's functionality would mostly be Internet based and less so on the in-built operating system. Such an internet based functionality may end up being expensive for the end user, if it does, the iPhone would be a better alternative to the Pre.
Comments
I guarantee that we?ll see many references of the Pre being an iPhone killer or it not being the iPhone killer people expected or somewhere in between come June 5th. The first device the HW, OS and apps will be compared to is the iPhone. I, too, am looking forward to these comparisons and expect the device to be very fast for a mobile phone with its lighter OS, faster HW and more modern version of WebKit over the current iPhone.
Don't set your expectations too high. The Pre might be faster in Web browsing compared to the current iPhone, but I don't see any reason for it to be perceived as faster compared to the new iPhone, whenever it comes out. In many areas you will have no base for comparison, e.g. games/OpenGL. There were numerous leaks suggesting that the new iPhone will have video editing capabilities but Pre is way behind in this department. I looked through the leaked Palm sales guide and noticed that they don't stress on performance the way they did few months back. Their remaining pros are the physical keyboard (not an advantage IMO) and multitasking (a feature Apple can add to the new iPhone if they decide to). But they will lag behind in many areas. I still have no explanation on the shortage issues. It seems that Palm was really late with production and could not stock enough devices.
My expectations:
Palm already lost the opportunity to win against the iPhone. Their best hope is not to be smashed by the new iPhone.
We'll see real soon
Don't set your expectations too high. The Pre might be faster in Web browsing compared to the current iPhone, but I don't see any reason for it to be perceived as faster compared to the new iPhone, whenever it comes out. In many areas you will have no base for comparison, e.g. games/OpenGL. There were numerous leaks suggesting that the new iPhone will have video editing capabilities but Pre is way behind in this department. I looked through the leaked Palm sales guide and noticed that they don't stress on performance the way they did few months back. Their remaining pros are the physical keyboard (not an advantage IMO) and multitasking (a feature Apple can add to the new iPhone if they decide to). But they will lag behind in many areas. I still have no explanation on the shortage issues. It seems that Palm was really late with production and could not stock enough devices.
My expectations:
Palm already lost the opportunity to win against the iPhone. Their best hope is not to be smashed by the new iPhone.
We'll see real soon
It's very possible, if not likely, that they were having difficulties in production, or pre-production.
It's also possible that due to some people who tried the phone talking about the difficulty with that top row of keys being too close to the overhang of the top part of the phone, that they tried to do a slight re-design. That certainly would have held production back, successful or not.
They also seemed to commit themselves to a launch before the iPhone.
I don't like the idea of that.
While Apple no doubt had the same problem with the initial launch; remember the problems?, they weren't in contention with other phones at the time. The Pre is.
I'm not sure what would be worse, a botched launch right before the new iPhone, or a better launch a month or two after, when all the iPhone hype has died down somewhat.
I would think it would be the latter, but possibly, they are hoping their launch isn't botched, and that coming out before is too important to their plans.
To me, even if the launch goes well, it's too close. I can't imagine anyone not wanting to wait until the iPhone launch is here, whether it's just announced at the ADC, or released during the ADC.
The reportage will all be saying to wait until the iPhone is announced, no matter how good the Pre may look. They wouldn't say that later.
Don't set your expectations too high. The Pre might be faster in Web browsing compared to the current iPhone, but I don't see any reason for it to be perceived as faster compared to the new iPhone, whenever it comes out. In many areas you will have no base for comparison, e.g. games/OpenGL.
They aren’t high, I think they are quite realistic. We know the iPhone is running about a 412MHZ ARMv6 CPU with 128MB RAM which needs 64MB for the OS and we know the Pre will use a 600MHz ARMv7 with 256MB RAM. We also know that WebOS is a slimmer than OS X.
As I stated previously, the comparisons will come in as soon the devices are launched, perhaps even earlier if given to tech sites. This means that all initial comparisons will be the Pre to the current iPhone, not the future iPhone that we know little to nothing about.
As for OpenGL and games, the iPhone will win hands down, just as it will for any complex app development, but simple apps are a focus for most consumers for most tasks, which is what the Pre is going for.
Their remaining pros are the physical keyboard (not an advantage IMO) and multitasking (a feature Apple can add to the new iPhone if they decide to). But they will lag behind in many areas. I still have no explanation on the shortage issues.
The physical keyboard doesn’t appeal to me, either, but to many it does, though it wold be much more useful for the slide-out keyboard to be in landscape mode, like the Android G1.
The multitasking, as we’ve discussed isn’t really true multitasking, but it’s good enough for most people’s needs. I think Apple will add limited proper, background apps, but only to their new device as the current and past iPhones don’t have the HW to support it. The current WebKit builds in Safari betas for both the mobile and desktop platforms do support HTML5’s DB functions, so Apple could offer a stop-gate option of allowing local Safari-based apps, like the Pre, but would they want to look like they are chasing Palm at this point?
We know the iPhone is running about a 412MHZ ARMv6 CPU with 128MB RAM which needs 64MB for the OS and we know the Pre will use a 600MHz ARMv7 with 256MB RAM. We also know that WebOS is a slimmer than OS X.
The problem is non-IT-centric customers have absolutely no idea of all that.
The problem is non-IT-centric customers have absolutely no idea of all that.
Nor should they. Palm and Sprint will do well to quickly compare the current iPhone to the Pre in terms of speed as soon as possible. There is no need to quantify and explain why the Pre is faster and how this short-term benefit is a longterm problem.
In a 30-sec commercial just show some basic comparisons. I?d guess that powering the devices on would be faster on the Pre than the iPhone since it has better HW and the OS is lighter. I?d also think opening up a webpage on the Pre would be faster than the iPhone because it already has WebKit running and it?s using a newer version of WebKit with the improved JS engine. After the commercials about background apps streaming music and whatnot, I?d start there for comparisons.
Nor should they. Palm and Sprint will do well to quickly compare the current iPhone to the Pre in terms of speed as soon as possible. There is no need to quantify and explain why the Pre is faster and how this short-term benefit is a longterm problem.
In a 30-sec commercial just show some basic comparisons. I’d guess that powering the devices on would be faster on the Pre than the iPhone since it has better HW and the OS is lighter. I’d also think opening up a webpage on the Pre would be faster than the iPhone because it already has WebKit running and it’s using a newer version of WebKit with the improved JS engine. After the commercials about background apps streaming music and whatnot, I’d start there for comparisons.
Khgm... But they can not show it in ads. It's illegal to advertise shortcomings of a competitor. Everything they're allowed to say is "faster than other phones".
Khgm... But they can not show it in ads. It's illegal to advertise shortcomings of a competitor. All they're allowed to say is "faster than other phones".
Perhaps in France, but in the US we compare products all the time in ads. As long as you are technically truthful it?s okay.
Khgm... But they can not show it in ads. It's illegal to advertise shortcomings of a competitor. Everything they're allowed to say is "faster than other phones".
Not illegal, actually, just a bit of advertising conventional wisdom (don't give the competition free advertising by mentioning them by name).
You can't lie outright and say things about the competition which aren't true-- Palm can't run ads that say "And unlike the iPhone, the Pre will never explode in your face and kill you."
Perhaps in France, but in the US we compare products all the time in ads. As long as you are technically truthful it?s okay.
OMG. I simply can't believe that! It just can't happen!
Not illegal, actually, just a bit of advertising conventional wisdom (don't give the competition free advertising by mentioning them by name).
You can't lie outright and say things about the competition which aren't true-- Palm can't run ads that say "And unlike the iPhone, the Pre will never explode in your face and kill you."
The first article of the European law on comparative advertising says:
"if it is not deceiving a competitor"
N-th article of the law says: "if a competitor?s commercial brands, commercial names, other distinctive signs, goods,services, activities or circumstances are not discredited or denigrated"
etc. No, it wont work.
OMG. I simply can't believe that! It just can't happen!
The first article of the European law on comparative advertising says:
"if it is not deceiving a competitor"
N-th article of the law says: "if a competitor?s commercial brands, commercial names, other distinctive signs, goods,services, activities or circumstances are not discredited or denigrated"
etc. No, it wont work.
That has absolutely no barring on the Pre being released in the US. So far, I have only heard about a US release with Sprint.
That has absolutely no barring on the Pre being released in the US. So far, I have only heard about a US release with Sprint.
Lanham Act says the same. In American English.
Lanham Act says the same. In American English.
So the Get A Mac ads don’t exist? And where does it state that you can’t compare your product to another?
So the Get A Mac ads don’t exist?
Mac is a business identifier of Apple Corporation. PC is not. No PC brand was mentioned in Get A Mac ads.
And where does it state that you can’t compare your product to another?
Oh, oh, sorry! It's my English again! I wrote "you can not advertise shortcomings of a competitor"
Mac is a business identifier of Apple corporation. PC is not. No PC brand mentioned in in Get A Mac ads.
They try to state any brand names when possible but plenty of the ads mentioned Vista by name because it was such an easy target after MS’ bungle. You don’t mention a competitor unless you have to, but with the Windows and the iPhone being so prominent in their respective circles the benefit of showing that your product is superior in comparison can outweigh the potential for free advertising.
Oh, oh, sorry! It's my English again! I wrote "you can not advertise shortcomings of a competitor”
You wrote, "It's illegal to advertise shortcomings of a competitor.” when it’s been stated that it’s not illegal, it’ been shown that it is not illegal, and Lanham states nothing about shortcomings of a competitor’s product. You can’t slander a product, but being truthful about a particular shortcoming is not slander. Logically speaking, there is no reason to compare two products in an ad if you are not pointing out that one is inferior to the other in some regard.
PS: Have you not seen a single US political campaign ad? They go for the jugular! They will take anything out of context and are still within their right to use it so long as it is technically truthful. It’s quite obscene, actually.
They try to state any brand names when possible but plenty of the ads mentioned Vista by name because it was such an easy target after MS? bungle.
True, Vista was mentioned once. No comparison with Mac OS was done. No any evaluations, estimations, opinions, which might harm Vista, were sounded. Skip it, they all're much smarter with ads and legislation, than we are.
You wrote, "It's illegal to advertise shortcomings of a competitor.? when it?s been stated that it?s not illegal, it? been shown that it is not illegal, and Lanham states nothing about shortcomings of a competitor?s product. You can?t slander a product, but being truthful about a particular shortcoming is not slander. Logically speaking, there is no reason to compare two products in an ad if you are not pointing out that one is inferior to the other in some regard.
It is illegal. And the U.S. legislation strictly forbids any harm to competitor's reputation.
True, Vista was mentioned once. No comparison with Mac OS was done. No any evaluations, estimations, opinions, which might harm Vista, were sounded. Skip it, they all're much smarter with ads and legislation, than we are.
They mentioned it once and then many times after that.
It is illegal. And the U.S. legislation strictly forbids any harm to competitor's reputation.
Why do the French hate free markets so much?
They mentioned it once and then many times after that.
No, no. Not they!
Why do the French hate free markets so much?
They /free markets/ are useless.
The Pre looks good and may do well. I doubt it will impact on the iPhone much. I won't get one but if I was given one I'd use it. I have no problem with the Pre joining in the game.
It is possible that Palm's Pre would become a cheaper alternative to Apple's iPhone, just like Microsoft's Windows smartphone. However, it is unlikely it would gain market share at a rapid rate like the iPhone.
The Pre's functionality would mostly be Internet based and less so on the in-built operating system. Such an internet based functionality may end up being expensive for the end user, if it does, the iPhone would be a better alternative to the Pre.
May the best phone dominate the market.
Curious of: how exactly is the user supposed to scroll screens by that small triangle at the bottom?
Being pleased and surprised by: They develop on Mac. So, Mac becomes the standard in the area of mobile development.