Worse news on the starting to look like the old Palm rollout: only 4 phones per Best Buy, maybe two or three per Radio Shack, courtesy of BGR:
If true, we really have to figure that the Pre just wasn't ready and Palm decided that they had to do whatever was necessary to get something out before the new iPhone announcement.
That doesn?t sound very likely. Such a low number would be more costly for Palm to produce. Of course, if they are trying to prove themselves and don?t wish to be overshadowed by the iPhone they really should get there before its announcement and definitely before its launch, so perhaps this is a tactic just to get the few that are coming out of the factory okay in time. The PS3 had a very low release because of issues with the Blu-ray laser production, but what HW in the Pre is so new and untested to make that an issue? I can?t think of any.
I really think they are hurting themselves with a release so near the next iPhone. January to April would have been much more ideal for their release when the current iPhone is old news.
I hope Palm does well and comes back with solid competition. Sprint I couldn?t care less about.
That's odd: looks like the Pre won't have visual voicemail, at least at launch.
I would have thought that that would be sort of standard issue, at this point.
Off the top of my head, I would think that VV would require some infrastructure changes for Sprint in the way it handles voicemail. Do they have VV for any of their phones? And getting the recorded voice pushed to your device would be data and Sprint may not want to make an exception for that for Palm, after all they probably are hedging their bets after the Instinct failure.
Not touch screen-- stylus. Huge difference, with a completely different style of interaction.
Apple basically invented the touch/tap/flick/pinch/gesture/flow style of UI that everyone wants to copy.
Well, I did say "not as advanced".
Stylus was there primarily for handwriting recognition, but other things could have been done with finger as well; screen was not capacitive but pressure sensitive, and didn't care much what you press it with... so you could open application by finger tapping it's icon, and type on virtual keyboard with thumbs. You could also use scroll bars with finger. In theory. Wasn't as precise as with capacitive screens for sure, and no gestures
I think he means capacitive touch screens that use a finger tip without having the smack the screen as I had to do with my Samsung and Treo's resistive non-touch screens.
The beauty of a capacitive screen is that you just need the finest whisper of a touch for it to work.
With the other screens, I sometimes found that I had to rap the screen before it registered a hit.
Off the top of my head, I would think that VV would require some infrastructure changes for Sprint in the way it handles voicemail. Do they have VV for any of their phones? And getting the recorded voice pushed to your device would be data and Sprint may not want to make an exception for that for Palm, after all they probably are hedging their bets after the Instinct failure.
Although they did do VV for the Instinct from launch, so they definitely have the infrastructure.
Pre is expensive to produce and Sprint is not willing/ can not afford to invest a lot of money in it. If the device proves to be successfull, both parties (Palm/Sprint) may get more investments/credits or other sort of funding.
Palm is not confident in reliability and works on some fixes/production issues but feels pressure from Apple to launch something.
Overall, I have a feeling that Palm is getting into trouble real soon.
Palm made a great mistake stressing on performance. Their performance lead may last 2 days only The other Palm focus - multitasking - is usability related, but Apple may kill it the day they feel a real pressure for this and/or the hardware progress will make the current compromise unnecessary*. If the rumors that Apple is doubling the RAM with the next iPhone are true, Apple can introduce or announce a "background apps" feature and kill the Pre out of the gate**. They may decide that Palm is not worth the effort, though.
* for those who still don't get it: iPhone OS CAN and DOES use multitasking. I just checked my iPhone: With only one app launched there are 29 processes running in the background. I am not using the iPod feature or making a call BTW.
** Out of 128 MB ram, 40+ are free after a cold restart and this drops to 2-4 MB pretty soon. Adding another 128 MB leaves room for more apps running in the background.
Then the exclusion escapes me as it seems one of those things that seems like a given for a higher-end smartphone.
It may be that, like the iPhone at a launch, Palm is stressing to get something that works pretty well out the door, and will add functionality when they have resources to throw at it.
But it does seem like VV is (or is rapidly becoming) one of those "how did we ever get along without it" sorts of things that might be a show-stopper for people that have gotten used to it.
They lost all traits of common sense. Every "IT-centric customer" may sue them for discrimination.
It looks like they are being smart about it. Instead of trying to force the device into every category they have actually designed it to fit a certain clientele. It looks like it?s a proper media phone that best competes with the iPhone. So far it looks like Palm and Sprint are doing everything right.
It looks like they are being smart about it. Instead of trying to force the device into every category they have actually designed it to fit a certain clientele. It looks like it’s a proper media phone that best competes with the iPhone. So far it looks like Palm and Sprint are doing everything right.
Oh, yeah. And they let these openly offensive recommendations leak and be seen publicly. Great business move! Being similar to naming their products "killers" of everything in the locality. They don't seem having learned lessons from the past.
Oh, yeah. And they let these openly offensive recommendations leak and be seen publicly. Great business move! Being similar to naming their products "killers" of everything in the locality. They don't seem having learned lessons from the past.
Calling anything a “<blank>-killer” is a surefire way to make it fail by comparison, but I don’t recall Palm calling the Pre the killer of anything. The only comparison from Palm came from the CEO that was later retracted, but that seemed more intentional for free press than some emotional rampage. I think he stated “a million times faster” which surely can’t be taken as anything but hyperbole. Perhaps I give Palm too much credit, but it sounds like sound good free press to get the advertising ball rolling.
edit:
— Palm CEO McNamee did state, ""June 29, 2009, is the two-year anniversary of the first shipment of the iPhone. Not one of those people will still be using an iPhone a month later”, but he did not say that it was because the Pre was an iPhone killer, but instead that people only bought it because the device was cool. His use of “not one” is hyperbolic so it can’t be taken seriously.
— McNamee also retracted his own “million times faster” comment immediately after stating it: "The Pre going to be a million times -- well, not a million times -- several times faster than the iPhone.” There goes the planned free advertising through exaggeration theory. Regarding his statement about several times faster, if you compare the Pre’s 600MHz ARMv7, 256MB RAM and use of the lightweight WebOS to current iPhone’s ~412MHZ ARMv6, 128MB RAM and excessive (for a mobile OS) OS X, it’s feasible that the Pre could be several times faster in certain tasks.
Remember, the Pre doesn’t have to best the iPhone, it just has to be good enough to get a foothold in the media-phone market.
Calling anything a “<blank>-killer” is a surefire way to make it fail by comparison, but I don’t recall Palm calling the Pre the killer of anything. The only comparison from Palm came from the CEO that was later retracted, but that seemed more intentional for free press than some emotional rampage. I think he stated “a million times faster” which surely can’t be taken as anything but hyperbole. Perhaps I give Palm too much credit, but it sounds like sound good free press to get the advertising ball rolling.
edit:
— Palm CEO McNamee did state, ""June 29, 2009, is the two-year anniversary of the first shipment of the iPhone. Not one of those people will still be using an iPhone a month later”, but he did not say that it was because the Pre was an iPhone killer, but instead that people only bought it because the device was cool. His use of “not one” is hyperbolic so it can’t be taken seriously.
— McNamee also retracted his own “million times faster” comment immediately after stating it: "The Pre going to be a million times -- well, not a million times -- several times faster than the iPhone.” There goes the planned free advertising through exaggeration theory. Regarding his statement about several times faster, if you compare the Pre’s 600MHz ARMv7, 256MB RAM and use of the lightweight WebOS to current iPhone’s ~412MHZ ARMv6, 128MB RAM and excessive (for a mobile OS) OS X, it’s feasible that the Pre could be several times faster in certain tasks.
Remember, the Pre doesn’t have to best the iPhone, it just has to be good enough to get a foothold in the media-phone market.
Wait, wait... You cited their statements having been sufficiently bold and impolite. And I'll add more to that.
Don't you think it's exactly what I call "a killer of everything in the locality"?
But recently disclosed sales recommendations are even worse, as they directly insult customers, not competitors.
Bold, yes, not sure about impolite. The quote you offer is great as it uses the term ?iPhone killer? without calling it as such, but humbly stating that it is meant to only be a great product for Palm. Rubinstein did a nice job there.
The sales recommendations are what Sprint carries and is trying to push. I think a real insult to customers would be to push their expensive $70/month Palm Pre to anyone and everyone that walked through the door. The focus on non-business, non-techy buyers shows that they know their product well, which is a good sign for the Pre. It still has the problem of being up against the iPhone in the US, but as I stated earlier, it doesn?t have to beat it, it just has to be good enough to get a foothold in the media-phone market.
Bold, yes, not sure about impolite. The quote you offer is great as it uses the term “iPhone killer” without calling it as such, but humbly stating that it is meant to only be a great product for Palm. Rubinstein did a nice job there.
The sales recommendations are what Sprint carries and is trying to push. I think a real insult to customers would be to push their expensive $70/month Palm Pre to anyone and everyone that walked through the door. The focus on non-business, non-techy buyers shows that they know their product well, which is a good sign for the Pre. It still has the problem of being up against the iPhone in the US, but as I stated earlier, it doesn’t have to beat it, it just has to be good enough to get a foothold in the media-phone market.
If I write just a bit better English, you'll notice I'm far better spokesman, than Palm's executives. I never wrote "iPhone killer".
Me - as incontestably brilliant spokesman - finding much better formulae to say what Palm's folks want to. "Help customer - they all are the best customers all over the world - to find Palm product, that fits best their business". You see? I don't call anyone "wrong"
If I write just a bit better English, you'll notice I'm far better spokesman, than Palm's executives. I never wrote "iPhone killer?.
I didn?t mean to imply that you did, but it is common designation given by many to a new product toward a product that is deemed the best, despite such a classification being impossible in every area.
I guarantee that we?ll see many references of the Pre being an iPhone killer or it not being the iPhone killer people expected or somewhere in between come June 5th. The first device the HW, OS and apps will be compared to is the iPhone. I, too, am looking forward to these comparisons and expect the device to be very fast for a mobile phone with its lighter OS, faster HW and more modern version of WebKit over the current iPhone.
I don't think there's anything "offensive" about the use of the word "wrong" in Sprint's sales memo. They mean wrong as in "not a good fit for the product", not wrong as in "we don't sell phones to the wrong sorts of people."
I didn’t mean to imply that you did, but it is common designation given by many to a new product toward a product that is deemed the best, despite such a classification being impossible in every area.
And I meant we had not to talk about iPhone here. We have to admit, Palm can't watch their mouths. And they don't want to learn to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
I guarantee that we’ll see many references of the Pre being an iPhone killer or it not being the iPhone killer people expected or somewhere in between come June 5th. The first device the HW, OS and apps will be compared to is the iPhone. I, too, am looking forward to these comparisons and expect the device to be very fast for a mobile phone with its lighter OS, faster HW and more modern version of WebKit over the current iPhone.
Palm guys show us clearly Pre is failure. "Let's not show it to technically literate people" Oh, yeah... You must be kidding me... Unfasten your belt. There will be no surprises.
Comments
Worse news on the starting to look like the old Palm rollout: only 4 phones per Best Buy, maybe two or three per Radio Shack, courtesy of BGR:
If true, we really have to figure that the Pre just wasn't ready and Palm decided that they had to do whatever was necessary to get something out before the new iPhone announcement.
That doesn?t sound very likely. Such a low number would be more costly for Palm to produce. Of course, if they are trying to prove themselves and don?t wish to be overshadowed by the iPhone they really should get there before its announcement and definitely before its launch, so perhaps this is a tactic just to get the few that are coming out of the factory okay in time. The PS3 had a very low release because of issues with the Blu-ray laser production, but what HW in the Pre is so new and untested to make that an issue? I can?t think of any.
I really think they are hurting themselves with a release so near the next iPhone. January to April would have been much more ideal for their release when the current iPhone is old news.
I hope Palm does well and comes back with solid competition. Sprint I couldn?t care less about.
I would have thought that that would be sort of standard issue, at this point.
That's odd: looks like the Pre won't have visual voicemail, at least at launch.
I would have thought that that would be sort of standard issue, at this point.
Off the top of my head, I would think that VV would require some infrastructure changes for Sprint in the way it handles voicemail. Do they have VV for any of their phones? And getting the recorded voice pushed to your device would be data and Sprint may not want to make an exception for that for Palm, after all they probably are hedging their bets after the Instinct failure.
Not touch screen-- stylus. Huge difference, with a completely different style of interaction.
Apple basically invented the touch/tap/flick/pinch/gesture/flow style of UI that everyone wants to copy.
Well, I did say "not as advanced".
Stylus was there primarily for handwriting recognition, but other things could have been done with finger as well; screen was not capacitive but pressure sensitive, and didn't care much what you press it with... so you could open application by finger tapping it's icon, and type on virtual keyboard with thumbs. You could also use scroll bars with finger. In theory. Wasn't as precise as with capacitive screens for sure, and no gestures
I think he means capacitive touch screens that use a finger tip without having the smack the screen as I had to do with my Samsung and Treo's resistive non-touch screens.
The beauty of a capacitive screen is that you just need the finest whisper of a touch for it to work.
With the other screens, I sometimes found that I had to rap the screen before it registered a hit.
Can't disagree with that.
Off the top of my head, I would think that VV would require some infrastructure changes for Sprint in the way it handles voicemail. Do they have VV for any of their phones? And getting the recorded voice pushed to your device would be data and Sprint may not want to make an exception for that for Palm, after all they probably are hedging their bets after the Instinct failure.
Although they did do VV for the Instinct from launch, so they definitely have the infrastructure.
- Pre is expensive to produce and Sprint is not willing/ can not afford to invest a lot of money in it. If the device proves to be successfull, both parties (Palm/Sprint) may get more investments/credits or other sort of funding.
- Palm is not confident in reliability and works on some fixes/production issues but feels pressure from Apple to launch something.
Overall, I have a feeling that Palm is getting into trouble real soon.From my other post here:
Palm made a great mistake stressing on performance. Their performance lead may last 2 days only
* for those who still don't get it: iPhone OS CAN and DOES use multitasking. I just checked my iPhone: With only one app launched there are 29 processes running in the background. I am not using the iPod feature or making a call BTW.
** Out of 128 MB ram, 40+ are free after a cold restart and this drops to 2-4 MB pretty soon. Adding another 128 MB leaves room for more apps running in the background.
Although they did do VV for the Instinct from launch, so they definitely have the infrastructure.
Then the exclusion escapes me as it seems one of those things that seems like a given for a higher-end smartphone.
Then the exclusion escapes me as it seems one of those things that seems like a given for a higher-end smartphone.
It may be that, like the iPhone at a launch, Palm is stressing to get something that works pretty well out the door, and will add functionality when they have resources to throw at it.
But it does seem like VV is (or is rapidly becoming) one of those "how did we ever get along without it" sorts of things that might be a show-stopper for people that have gotten used to it.
They lost all traits of common sense. Every "IT-centric customer" may sue them for discrimination.
[URL="http://www.engadget.com/2009/05/25/sprint-doc-implores-reps-not-to-sell-pre-to-the-wrong-people/?[/URL]
They lost all traits of common sense. Every "IT-centric customer" may sue them for discrimination.
It looks like they are being smart about it. Instead of trying to force the device into every category they have actually designed it to fit a certain clientele. It looks like it?s a proper media phone that best competes with the iPhone. So far it looks like Palm and Sprint are doing everything right.
It looks like they are being smart about it. Instead of trying to force the device into every category they have actually designed it to fit a certain clientele. It looks like it’s a proper media phone that best competes with the iPhone. So far it looks like Palm and Sprint are doing everything right.
Oh, yeah. And they let these openly offensive recommendations leak and be seen publicly. Great business move! Being similar to naming their products "killers" of everything in the locality.
Oh, yeah. And they let these openly offensive recommendations leak and be seen publicly. Great business move! Being similar to naming their products "killers" of everything in the locality.
Calling anything a “<blank>-killer” is a surefire way to make it fail by comparison, but I don’t recall Palm calling the Pre the killer of anything. The only comparison from Palm came from the CEO that was later retracted, but that seemed more intentional for free press than some emotional rampage. I think he stated “a million times faster” which surely can’t be taken as anything but hyperbole. Perhaps I give Palm too much credit, but it sounds like sound good free press to get the advertising ball rolling.
edit:
— Palm CEO McNamee did state, ""June 29, 2009, is the two-year anniversary of the first shipment of the iPhone. Not one of those people will still be using an iPhone a month later”, but he did not say that it was because the Pre was an iPhone killer, but instead that people only bought it because the device was cool. His use of “not one” is hyperbolic so it can’t be taken seriously.
— McNamee also retracted his own “million times faster” comment immediately after stating it: "The Pre going to be a million times -- well, not a million times -- several times faster than the iPhone.” There goes the planned free advertising through exaggeration theory. Regarding his statement about several times faster, if you compare the Pre’s 600MHz ARMv7, 256MB RAM and use of the lightweight WebOS to current iPhone’s ~412MHZ ARMv6, 128MB RAM and excessive (for a mobile OS) OS X, it’s feasible that the Pre could be several times faster in certain tasks.
Remember, the Pre doesn’t have to best the iPhone, it just has to be good enough to get a foothold in the media-phone market.
Calling anything a “<blank>-killer” is a surefire way to make it fail by comparison, but I don’t recall Palm calling the Pre the killer of anything. The only comparison from Palm came from the CEO that was later retracted, but that seemed more intentional for free press than some emotional rampage. I think he stated “a million times faster” which surely can’t be taken as anything but hyperbole. Perhaps I give Palm too much credit, but it sounds like sound good free press to get the advertising ball rolling.
edit:
— Palm CEO McNamee did state, ""June 29, 2009, is the two-year anniversary of the first shipment of the iPhone. Not one of those people will still be using an iPhone a month later”, but he did not say that it was because the Pre was an iPhone killer, but instead that people only bought it because the device was cool. His use of “not one” is hyperbolic so it can’t be taken seriously.
— McNamee also retracted his own “million times faster” comment immediately after stating it: "The Pre going to be a million times -- well, not a million times -- several times faster than the iPhone.” There goes the planned free advertising through exaggeration theory. Regarding his statement about several times faster, if you compare the Pre’s 600MHz ARMv7, 256MB RAM and use of the lightweight WebOS to current iPhone’s ~412MHZ ARMv6, 128MB RAM and excessive (for a mobile OS) OS X, it’s feasible that the Pre could be several times faster in certain tasks.
Remember, the Pre doesn’t have to best the iPhone, it just has to be good enough to get a foothold in the media-phone market.
Wait, wait... You cited their statements having been sufficiently bold and impolite. And I'll add more to that.
Jonathan J. Rubinstein, executive chairman of Palm:
“Our intention was never to build an iPhone killer but to build a killer Palm product,” Mr. Rubinstein said in an interview.
Don't you think it's exactly what I call "a killer of everything in the locality"?
But recently disclosed sales recommendations are even worse, as they directly insult customers, not competitors.
Wait, wait... You cited their statements having been sufficiently bold and impolite. And I'll add more to that.
Jonathan J. Rubinstein, executive chairman of Palm:
Don't you think it's exactly what I call "a killer of everything in the locality"?
But recently disclosed sales recommendations are even worse, as they directly insult customers, not competitors.
Bold, yes, not sure about impolite. The quote you offer is great as it uses the term ?iPhone killer? without calling it as such, but humbly stating that it is meant to only be a great product for Palm. Rubinstein did a nice job there.
The sales recommendations are what Sprint carries and is trying to push. I think a real insult to customers would be to push their expensive $70/month Palm Pre to anyone and everyone that walked through the door. The focus on non-business, non-techy buyers shows that they know their product well, which is a good sign for the Pre. It still has the problem of being up against the iPhone in the US, but as I stated earlier, it doesn?t have to beat it, it just has to be good enough to get a foothold in the media-phone market.
Bold, yes, not sure about impolite. The quote you offer is great as it uses the term “iPhone killer” without calling it as such, but humbly stating that it is meant to only be a great product for Palm. Rubinstein did a nice job there.
The sales recommendations are what Sprint carries and is trying to push. I think a real insult to customers would be to push their expensive $70/month Palm Pre to anyone and everyone that walked through the door. The focus on non-business, non-techy buyers shows that they know their product well, which is a good sign for the Pre. It still has the problem of being up against the iPhone in the US, but as I stated earlier, it doesn’t have to beat it, it just has to be good enough to get a foothold in the media-phone market.
If I write just a bit better English, you'll notice I'm far better spokesman, than Palm's executives. I never wrote "iPhone killer".
Me - as incontestably brilliant spokesman - finding much better formulae to say what Palm's folks want to. "Help customer - they all are the best customers all over the world - to find Palm product, that fits best their business". You see? I don't call anyone "wrong"
If I write just a bit better English, you'll notice I'm far better spokesman, than Palm's executives. I never wrote "iPhone killer?.
I didn?t mean to imply that you did, but it is common designation given by many to a new product toward a product that is deemed the best, despite such a classification being impossible in every area.
I guarantee that we?ll see many references of the Pre being an iPhone killer or it not being the iPhone killer people expected or somewhere in between come June 5th. The first device the HW, OS and apps will be compared to is the iPhone. I, too, am looking forward to these comparisons and expect the device to be very fast for a mobile phone with its lighter OS, faster HW and more modern version of WebKit over the current iPhone.
I didn’t mean to imply that you did, but it is common designation given by many to a new product toward a product that is deemed the best, despite such a classification being impossible in every area.
And I meant we had not to talk about iPhone here. We have to admit, Palm can't watch their mouths. And they don't want to learn to.
I guarantee that we’ll see many references of the Pre being an iPhone killer or it not being the iPhone killer people expected or somewhere in between come June 5th. The first device the HW, OS and apps will be compared to is the iPhone. I, too, am looking forward to these comparisons and expect the device to be very fast for a mobile phone with its lighter OS, faster HW and more modern version of WebKit over the current iPhone.
Palm guys show us clearly Pre is failure. "Let's not show it to technically literate people"