Apparently I had, but after I typed it and submitted it, it didn't sound right so I ended up going to the same place you did
Whew, haven't thought about this stuff in this detail for some time. Moving into managment and away from day to day sysadmin work sucks \
I have two CCIEs, albeit expired certs, but I also have a computer science degree with a focus on networking. I wouldn’t have thought that with so many years and so much effort put forward I would have forgotten such simple standards, but I apparently have. I felt old when Tetris turned 25yo yesterday, this just makes it worse. Not to mention I’m at a hotel where the average age is about half of mine. Seriously depressing!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant
lol... didn't you see the long lines yesterday?
There was a Sprint store in Honolulu that apparently had 50 people waiting outside for a Pre. I’m sure that there will be some out of the way AT&T store that has less than 50 people for the iPhone release. This is impressive, considering that Mark Elliot of Sprint stated that they didn’t even want lines to form. I’m sure he was devastated that some small ones did.
The pre has been out for a day or two i guess. but he sounds like he's had it for some time. whether he has or hasn't had it awhile, it still sounds like there's some bias corollary to the "mind control" apple fans are under.
Reading this forum is like being in a middle school cafeteria...
That being said, I do have to add my two cents. Yes, the Palm Pre can multitask, but what everyone seems to forget is that its applications are written in HTML, CSS, and JavaScript, not Objective-C like the iPhone. iPhone apps have native access to all sorts of APIs and services like Core Animation, OpenGL, etc. Does the Pre? Nope. I'm not saying that the Pre doesn't give developers access to any type of API (via JavaScript maybe), but what I am saying is that it's a bit like comparing apples (no pun intended) to oranges (wow, Palm's logo does look like an orange lol).
Also - why do we need multitasking so badly? Since the iPhone is a window-less OS, you'd need to hit the home button and select the application running in the background to use it anyway. I really can't think of one app I use that I would want to run in the background. For IM, which is the argument most people make, I use BeejiveIM. Even if I'm not using it, the BeejiveIM servers collect my IMs and present them to me when I use it the next time as if it were actually running the entire time.
Lastly, someone was making the assertion that Apple was too lazy to slim down the OS for the current hardware. Are you kidding me?! It's not like Apple ever rushes out any product, and who are you to make that assumption. Apple took its sweet time developing the iPhone, and made decisions strategically, not hastily. Developers love the iPhone SDK because it offers them thousands of APIs, frameworks, etc, and isn't a 'kiddie' OS designed for second-rate hardware. iPhone OS is a real OS, unlike webOS which is basically a system-wide browser. If Palm ever allows third party apps written natively, you can bet the Pre and its oh-so-holy multitasking won't be able to handle running more than one at a time.
The issue with battery drain is bogus anyways. If you have processes that eat up battery life simply don't run them unless needed. How much power a background app will use is dependant on how it is written an how often it is scheduled.
The over all point being that 90% of people don't know anything about or would care to learn how to manage the system resources on their phones.
For the convenience of the majority of the consumer market Apple does not allow this option because most people won't understand that they have too many apps open at the same time, they will only understand that their phone is having problems.
The battery issues with multitasking have been shown in reviews of the Pre. The Pre has been getting lack luster reviews on battery life and some reviewers have pointed out that multitasking clearly slows down the phones processes and can cause stalls or crashing.
Quote:
As a side note it was just pointed out to me that yes indeed mail runs in background or at least part of it does.
Of course mail runs in the background, how else would you receive an email when mail is closed.
The pre has been out for a day or two i guess. but he sounds like he's had it for some time. whether he has or hasn't had it awhile, it still sounds like there's some bias corollary to the "mind control" apple fans are under.
Hopefully it ends up being a small isolated problem. As often these types of things end ip being.
I hope so, for Palm’s sake. The amount of people with issues compared to how few devices stores received compared to other devices at launch doesn’t look promising. The good thing for Palm is that if there is a HW issue they may be able to fix it for the next batch making it a very short term problem, despite the returns.
Multitasking multiple apps does not necessarily mean battery drain. For example, why would a calendar app running the background take so much power to sit idle while the contacts app is running in the foreground?
Multitasking is very useful.
How many times have you got an sms app interrupt what you are doing. In order to fully read it, you have to quit the application you are currently in, open sms, view and reply to the message, quit the sms app, open the app you were previously in and continue with what you were doing.
How many times have you wanted to listen to Pandora while using google maps in your car while the device is plugged in!
How many times are you responding to an email and you want to refer to a web page to copy/paste info without quitting the email program?
If I want to run process intensive apps in the background - like IM perhaps - it's my choice. I don't have to run it in the background. With the iPhone, it's Apple's choice. I personally prefer to be in control...
Even though multitasking is possible in the iphone, what is beautiful about it in the PRE is the user interface to it! Tell me how Apple is going to bolt on multitasking, or non-intrusive notifications without breaking the software it is already running. They have to deal with their legacy UI decisions... The card metaphor for the PRE was brilliant and that is what really makes multitasking on it unique... I think Apple will eventually add multitasking - but I have no idea what their UI to it will be...
If I want to run 10 cards doing crazy things in the background - perhaps I could on the pre - but why would I. The iPhone does win on simplicity - in forcing the user to use one app at a time - but it's like putting a 10 foot fence around top of the Himalayas preventing us from jumping over - I'd rather it not be there. I won't jump but I do want to enjoy the view.
This all said - I love the iPhone. The pre wouldn't have existed without it setting the example of what is possible. I think the PRE is more of a blackberry killer than an iPhone killer...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel0418
I don't think the pre will die for a long time. this battery argument is so ridiculous. Apple has total mind control over apple fans it is so sad. The battery life is my choice with the pre. I have a pre and an iphone 3g. The pre WITH multitasking gets about the same battery life as the 3g give or take 30 minutes. The reason the iphone doesn't multitask is because the phone doesn't have the power to do it. With the pre I can have 6-10 apps open and still scroll through contacts or type an email lag free. On my iphone if I play music in the backround safari crashes. I scroll through contacts and it lags when nothing elde is going on. On the pre I am typing this msg while 3 other browsers are open and when I go back to them the page is still there it doesn't have to reload, I have 2 you tube videos also buffering in the backround and still with all 6 of these apps open I can type this msg with no lag. Also the browser has never crashed even with 12 apps open. This is amazing because my battery still lasts a day. The iphone is good the pre is a little better for me because the multitask is needed. I know the pre will be around for a long time especially in february 2010 when its on sprint, At&t, and verizon. The pre will blow up with users.
Everyone is so hung up over graphic intensive, battery hogging, 3d games. If you ask me, I think socially connected games are the next big thing. I'd rather join up in a game of risk or monopoly where I can play with other people over the internet. Or perhaps scrabble that I could play with my girlfriend during lunch breaks here and there.. The WebOS has no limitations to these type of games and I think they will be more popular than racing that Ferrari f40 on the little iphone screen..
There are a lot of possibilities for games outside of virtual reality type stuff...
Quote:
Originally Posted by winterspan
Not surprising given that Rubenstein was probably able to poach a bunch of former Apple engineers.
Besides the keyboard which seems to be very small and uncomfortable for male hands, the Palm pre looks very nice. The next-gen 600Mhz ARM Cortex-A8 is blazing fast --- twice as fast as the older iPhone ARM11 at a given frequency and running 50% higher clockspeed --- and the PoweVR "SGX-530" graphics core is also a lot better than the "MBX lite" in the iPhone.
The OS and interface is well designed and engineered and provides a very good experience. I think one major challenge will be how well they integrate the programming API into the lower-level subsystems. If developers are stuck with basic HTML/CSS and Javascript without things like hardware accelerated SVG/Canvas, javascript->OpenGL bindings, custom high-level 3D Javascript library, etc, then the applications will be pretty limited, and you can forget about advanced iPhone-level games.
...You go to the browser. Shift open de keyboard. Type in the web address. Slide it in again to read the website. Now imagine that you are reading a web page sideways (which I do a lot). You then want to go to a different web site. You first have to turn the phone, shift open the keyboard, type in the address, shift the keyboard back in and turn the phone sideways again. What an obvious design error. At least they should have, just like the G1, have the keyboard come out from the side...
My guess is that they chose to optimize this for one-handed operation.
Landscape keyboards require two hands, so it make it hard to operate and sip your latte at the same time... Not to mention when you're running thru the airport with a briefcase.
Multitasking multiple apps does not necessarily mean battery drain. For example, why would a calendar app running the background take so much power to sit idle while the contacts app is running in the foreground?
Multitasking is very useful.
How many times have you got an sms app interrupt what you are doing. In order to fully read it, you have to quit the application you are currently in, open sms, view and reply to the message, quit the sms app, open the app you were previously in and continue with what you were doing.
How many times have you wanted to listen to Pandora while using google maps in your car while the device is plugged in!
How many times are you responding to an email and you want to refer to a web page to copy/paste info without quitting the email program?
If I want to run process intensive apps in the background - like IM perhaps - it's my choice. I don't have to run it in the background. With the iPhone, it's Apple's choice. I personally prefer to be in control...
Even though multitasking is possible in the iphone, what is beautiful about it in the PRE is the user interface to it! Tell me how Apple is going to bolt on multitasking, or non-intrusive notifications without breaking the software it is already running. They have to deal with their legacy UI decisions... The card metaphor for the PRE was brilliant and that is what really makes multitasking on it unique... I think Apple will eventually add multitasking - but I have no idea what their UI to it will be...
If I want to run 10 cards doing crazy things in the background - perhaps I could on the pre - but why would I. The iPhone does win on simplicity - in forcing the user to use one app at a time - but it's like putting a 10 foot fence around top of the Himalayas preventing us from jumping over - I'd rather it not be there. I won't jump but I do want to enjoy the view.
This all said - I love the iPhone. The pre wouldn't have existed without it setting the example of what is possible. I think the PRE is more of a blackberry killer than an iPhone killer...
Good argument, although few people are challenging the usefulness of multitasking. We all see its utility and would like to have it on the iphone yesterday.
The argument is over whether or not its practical yet, and how necessary it is, and what things can be put in place to mitigate its necessity (i.e. push-style cloud alerts for third party apps.)
And while it would be an option to have it be up to the user which apps can run in the background and which cant, the debate there is whether or not users are willing and savvy enough to manage them properly.
Again I refer to the guy who said he can only operate with his iphone at full brightness then would come here and complain about the battery life.
Quite honestly, I can see both sides, but I would prefer not to have users mismanaging the background feature, then complaining, giving the iphone a bad reputation, and ultimately hurting my apple stock. I would rather see the cloud notifications come into effect.
Multitasking multiple apps does not necessarily mean battery drain. For example, why would a calendar app running the background take so much power to sit idle while the contacts app is running in the foreground?
Why would you even need a calendar app "running idle" in the background anyway?
Quote:
Multitasking is very useful.
It can be, but it also introduces complexity and if not managed properly it can ruin the user experience.
Apple is all about the user experience...
Quote:
How many times have you got an sms app interrupt what you are doing. In order to fully read it, you have to quit the application you are currently in, open sms, view and reply to the message, quit the sms app, open the app you were previously in and continue with what you were doing.
Well, since iPhone apps (at least the well written ones, which is the majority I have downloaded) save your state, and since it's flash based there isn't that much of a penalty for re-loading programs, it isn't as big a deal to me.
I'd rather have a lightweight OS task (say, oh I don't know - a push notification manager) that can have one connection for multiple applications running, then multiple full blown applications, each with their own sockets open.
Mobile devices have limited resources, battery being the most precious - why have multiple listeners running when one will do? That's the whole point behind push notifications.
Quote:
How many times have you wanted to listen to Pandora while using google maps in your car while the device is plugged in!
I agree, third party music apps in the background is one class of application where background processing is mandatory.
Quote:
How many times are you responding to an email and you want to refer to a web page to copy/paste info without quitting the email program?
None. With the iPhone OS, it saves my state in the web browser and email apps, so there is no need for them to be running in the background. Actually for your scenario to work, we need copy and paste first
Quote:
If I want to run process intensive apps in the background - like IM perhaps - it's my choice. I don't have to run it in the background. With the iPhone, it's Apple's choice. I personally prefer to be in control...
Then the iPhone isn't for you.
Pretty simple, eh?
Quote:
Even though multitasking is possible in the iphone, what is beautiful about it in the PRE is the user interface to it! Tell me how Apple is going to bolt on multitasking
You do realize that the iPhone OS already multitasks? They just don't expose that functionality to developers?
Quote:
or non-intrusive notifications without breaking the software it is already running.They have to deal with their legacy UI decisions...
Ah yes, because it's impossible to update shipping software. They are so screwed in implementing copy and paste.
Oh, wait....
Quote:
The card metaphor for the PRE was brilliant and that is what really makes multitasking on it unique... I think Apple will eventually add multitasking - but I have no idea what their UI to it will be...
It remains to be seen how brilliant the card metaphor is. The phones haven't been getting heavy use. And there is nothing to say that Apple doesn't already have something in mind for the future.
In fact I would be shocked if they didn't. The SDK didn't happen overnight - it was obviously always part of the plan, although they did seem to take their sweet time with copy and paste.
I think it's reasonable to expect some of what was described in some of the rumors - one or two special positions on the rumored replacement for the iPhone app launcher that allow apps placed in those slots to run in the background. Really the only two apps that I can think of that have to run in the background are apps like Pandora that stream music and where parity with the iPod app would be desirable, and apps that access things like the GPS. I would love to be able to keep Trails on while I am taking pictures so my GPS tagging is always up to date.
I think this is a good compromise between allowing background apps but not allowing users to totally shoot themselves in the foot - it makes it a little more obvious what is happening.
...And if you do run out of battery, you can always switch it with a new one. Something the iPhone lacks. Oh, and at least I don't have to buy a new phone if my battery dies (or take it to Apple), all I have to do is go to Amazon and buy a new battery, and switch it.
Every time I read about being able to swap in a fresh battery, I think "right. that's good!".
But say you have 2 or 3 batteries. How do you deal with the practical issue of keeping them all charged? The thought of that gives me a headache.
For my current phone, I charge it while I'm sleeping. Simple. No thinking/planning/worrying required.
I would be surprised if Palm has any repair process for any component. These electronics components are not like the cylinder head of your car.
Repair of any specific component within ANY cellphone almost never happens. Instead, manufacturers replace failed components with brand new components.
If subassembly X fails, it is replaced with a new subassembly X. The failed component is then sold to a vendor where its raw materials are reclaimed.
Cell phone subcomponents are virtually NEVER repaired, except in the extremely rare case where an expensive subcomponent has a very common failure mode, and which can be permanently repaired very inexpensively.
As I understand it, when you send your phone to Palm for repair, you don't actually get the same phone back. Instead they just swap it with a refurbished one.
Comments
Apparently I had, but after I typed it and submitted it, it didn't sound right so I ended up going to the same place you did
Whew, haven't thought about this stuff in this detail for some time. Moving into managment and away from day to day sysadmin work sucks
I have two CCIEs, albeit expired certs, but I also have a computer science degree with a focus on networking. I wouldn’t have thought that with so many years and so much effort put forward I would have forgotten such simple standards, but I apparently have. I felt old when Tetris turned 25yo yesterday, this just makes it worse. Not to mention I’m at a hotel where the average age is about half of mine. Seriously depressing!
lol... didn't you see the long lines yesterday?
There was a Sprint store in Honolulu that apparently had 50 people waiting outside for a Pre. I’m sure that there will be some out of the way AT&T store that has less than 50 people for the iPhone release. This is impressive, considering that Mark Elliot of Sprint stated that they didn’t even want lines to form. I’m sure he was devastated that some small ones did.
You have the PRE ? The PRE is out already ?
The pre has been out for a day or two i guess. but he sounds like he's had it for some time. whether he has or hasn't had it awhile, it still sounds like there's some bias corollary to the "mind control" apple fans are under.
That being said, I do have to add my two cents. Yes, the Palm Pre can multitask, but what everyone seems to forget is that its applications are written in HTML, CSS, and JavaScript, not Objective-C like the iPhone. iPhone apps have native access to all sorts of APIs and services like Core Animation, OpenGL, etc. Does the Pre? Nope. I'm not saying that the Pre doesn't give developers access to any type of API (via JavaScript maybe), but what I am saying is that it's a bit like comparing apples (no pun intended) to oranges (wow, Palm's logo does look like an orange lol).
Also - why do we need multitasking so badly? Since the iPhone is a window-less OS, you'd need to hit the home button and select the application running in the background to use it anyway. I really can't think of one app I use that I would want to run in the background. For IM, which is the argument most people make, I use BeejiveIM. Even if I'm not using it, the BeejiveIM servers collect my IMs and present them to me when I use it the next time as if it were actually running the entire time.
Lastly, someone was making the assertion that Apple was too lazy to slim down the OS for the current hardware. Are you kidding me?! It's not like Apple ever rushes out any product, and who are you to make that assumption. Apple took its sweet time developing the iPhone, and made decisions strategically, not hastily. Developers love the iPhone SDK because it offers them thousands of APIs, frameworks, etc, and isn't a 'kiddie' OS designed for second-rate hardware. iPhone OS is a real OS, unlike webOS which is basically a system-wide browser. If Palm ever allows third party apps written natively, you can bet the Pre and its oh-so-holy multitasking won't be able to handle running more than one at a time.
The issue with battery drain is bogus anyways. If you have processes that eat up battery life simply don't run them unless needed. How much power a background app will use is dependant on how it is written an how often it is scheduled.
The over all point being that 90% of people don't know anything about or would care to learn how to manage the system resources on their phones.
For the convenience of the majority of the consumer market Apple does not allow this option because most people won't understand that they have too many apps open at the same time, they will only understand that their phone is having problems.
The battery issues with multitasking have been shown in reviews of the Pre. The Pre has been getting lack luster reviews on battery life and some reviewers have pointed out that multitasking clearly slows down the phones processes and can cause stalls or crashing.
As a side note it was just pointed out to me that yes indeed mail runs in background or at least part of it does.
Of course mail runs in the background, how else would you receive an email when mail is closed.
The pre has been out for a day or two i guess. but he sounds like he's had it for some time. whether he has or hasn't had it awhile, it still sounds like there's some bias corollary to the "mind control" apple fans are under.
He seemed to have it for weeks.
This is not good news for the Palm?
Hopefully it ends up being a small isolated problem. As often these types of things end ip being.
I hope so, for Palm’s sake. The amount of people with issues compared to how few devices stores received compared to other devices at launch doesn’t look promising. The good thing for Palm is that if there is a HW issue they may be able to fix it for the next batch making it a very short term problem, despite the returns.
Palm actually said they didn't want long lineups.
Right. Sure they didn't.
hummmm
hummmm
x2
-snip-
leave to you to bring the word 'fanboys' into it...
Multitasking multiple apps does not necessarily mean battery drain. For example, why would a calendar app running the background take so much power to sit idle while the contacts app is running in the foreground?
Multitasking is very useful.
How many times have you got an sms app interrupt what you are doing. In order to fully read it, you have to quit the application you are currently in, open sms, view and reply to the message, quit the sms app, open the app you were previously in and continue with what you were doing.
How many times have you wanted to listen to Pandora while using google maps in your car while the device is plugged in!
How many times are you responding to an email and you want to refer to a web page to copy/paste info without quitting the email program?
If I want to run process intensive apps in the background - like IM perhaps - it's my choice. I don't have to run it in the background. With the iPhone, it's Apple's choice. I personally prefer to be in control...
Even though multitasking is possible in the iphone, what is beautiful about it in the PRE is the user interface to it! Tell me how Apple is going to bolt on multitasking, or non-intrusive notifications without breaking the software it is already running. They have to deal with their legacy UI decisions... The card metaphor for the PRE was brilliant and that is what really makes multitasking on it unique... I think Apple will eventually add multitasking - but I have no idea what their UI to it will be...
If I want to run 10 cards doing crazy things in the background - perhaps I could on the pre - but why would I. The iPhone does win on simplicity - in forcing the user to use one app at a time - but it's like putting a 10 foot fence around top of the Himalayas preventing us from jumping over - I'd rather it not be there. I won't jump but I do want to enjoy the view.
This all said - I love the iPhone. The pre wouldn't have existed without it setting the example of what is possible. I think the PRE is more of a blackberry killer than an iPhone killer...
I don't think the pre will die for a long time. this battery argument is so ridiculous. Apple has total mind control over apple fans it is so sad. The battery life is my choice with the pre. I have a pre and an iphone 3g. The pre WITH multitasking gets about the same battery life as the 3g give or take 30 minutes. The reason the iphone doesn't multitask is because the phone doesn't have the power to do it. With the pre I can have 6-10 apps open and still scroll through contacts or type an email lag free. On my iphone if I play music in the backround safari crashes. I scroll through contacts and it lags when nothing elde is going on. On the pre I am typing this msg while 3 other browsers are open and when I go back to them the page is still there it doesn't have to reload, I have 2 you tube videos also buffering in the backround and still with all 6 of these apps open I can type this msg with no lag. Also the browser has never crashed even with 12 apps open. This is amazing because my battery still lasts a day. The iphone is good the pre is a little better for me because the multitask is needed. I know the pre will be around for a long time especially in february 2010 when its on sprint, At&t, and verizon. The pre will blow up with users.
There are a lot of possibilities for games outside of virtual reality type stuff...
Not surprising given that Rubenstein was probably able to poach a bunch of former Apple engineers.
Besides the keyboard which seems to be very small and uncomfortable for male hands, the Palm pre looks very nice. The next-gen 600Mhz ARM Cortex-A8 is blazing fast --- twice as fast as the older iPhone ARM11 at a given frequency and running 50% higher clockspeed --- and the PoweVR "SGX-530" graphics core is also a lot better than the "MBX lite" in the iPhone.
The OS and interface is well designed and engineered and provides a very good experience. I think one major challenge will be how well they integrate the programming API into the lower-level subsystems. If developers are stuck with basic HTML/CSS and Javascript without things like hardware accelerated SVG/Canvas, javascript->OpenGL bindings, custom high-level 3D Javascript library, etc, then the applications will be pretty limited, and you can forget about advanced iPhone-level games.
...You go to the browser. Shift open de keyboard. Type in the web address. Slide it in again to read the website. Now imagine that you are reading a web page sideways (which I do a lot). You then want to go to a different web site. You first have to turn the phone, shift open the keyboard, type in the address, shift the keyboard back in and turn the phone sideways again. What an obvious design error. At least they should have, just like the G1, have the keyboard come out from the side...
My guess is that they chose to optimize this for one-handed operation.
Landscape keyboards require two hands, so it make it hard to operate and sip your latte at the same time... Not to mention when you're running thru the airport with a briefcase.
My $.02
Thank you Daniel,
Multitasking multiple apps does not necessarily mean battery drain. For example, why would a calendar app running the background take so much power to sit idle while the contacts app is running in the foreground?
Multitasking is very useful.
How many times have you got an sms app interrupt what you are doing. In order to fully read it, you have to quit the application you are currently in, open sms, view and reply to the message, quit the sms app, open the app you were previously in and continue with what you were doing.
How many times have you wanted to listen to Pandora while using google maps in your car while the device is plugged in!
How many times are you responding to an email and you want to refer to a web page to copy/paste info without quitting the email program?
If I want to run process intensive apps in the background - like IM perhaps - it's my choice. I don't have to run it in the background. With the iPhone, it's Apple's choice. I personally prefer to be in control...
Even though multitasking is possible in the iphone, what is beautiful about it in the PRE is the user interface to it! Tell me how Apple is going to bolt on multitasking, or non-intrusive notifications without breaking the software it is already running. They have to deal with their legacy UI decisions... The card metaphor for the PRE was brilliant and that is what really makes multitasking on it unique... I think Apple will eventually add multitasking - but I have no idea what their UI to it will be...
If I want to run 10 cards doing crazy things in the background - perhaps I could on the pre - but why would I. The iPhone does win on simplicity - in forcing the user to use one app at a time - but it's like putting a 10 foot fence around top of the Himalayas preventing us from jumping over - I'd rather it not be there. I won't jump but I do want to enjoy the view.
This all said - I love the iPhone. The pre wouldn't have existed without it setting the example of what is possible. I think the PRE is more of a blackberry killer than an iPhone killer...
Good argument, although few people are challenging the usefulness of multitasking. We all see its utility and would like to have it on the iphone yesterday.
The argument is over whether or not its practical yet, and how necessary it is, and what things can be put in place to mitigate its necessity (i.e. push-style cloud alerts for third party apps.)
And while it would be an option to have it be up to the user which apps can run in the background and which cant, the debate there is whether or not users are willing and savvy enough to manage them properly.
Again I refer to the guy who said he can only operate with his iphone at full brightness then would come here and complain about the battery life.
Quite honestly, I can see both sides, but I would prefer not to have users mismanaging the background feature, then complaining, giving the iphone a bad reputation, and ultimately hurting my apple stock. I would rather see the cloud notifications come into effect.
Multitasking multiple apps does not necessarily mean battery drain. For example, why would a calendar app running the background take so much power to sit idle while the contacts app is running in the foreground?
Why would you even need a calendar app "running idle" in the background anyway?
Multitasking is very useful.
It can be, but it also introduces complexity and if not managed properly it can ruin the user experience.
Apple is all about the user experience...
How many times have you got an sms app interrupt what you are doing. In order to fully read it, you have to quit the application you are currently in, open sms, view and reply to the message, quit the sms app, open the app you were previously in and continue with what you were doing.
Well, since iPhone apps (at least the well written ones, which is the majority I have downloaded) save your state, and since it's flash based there isn't that much of a penalty for re-loading programs, it isn't as big a deal to me.
I'd rather have a lightweight OS task (say, oh I don't know - a push notification manager) that can have one connection for multiple applications running, then multiple full blown applications, each with their own sockets open.
Mobile devices have limited resources, battery being the most precious - why have multiple listeners running when one will do? That's the whole point behind push notifications.
How many times have you wanted to listen to Pandora while using google maps in your car while the device is plugged in!
I agree, third party music apps in the background is one class of application where background processing is mandatory.
How many times are you responding to an email and you want to refer to a web page to copy/paste info without quitting the email program?
None. With the iPhone OS, it saves my state in the web browser and email apps, so there is no need for them to be running in the background. Actually for your scenario to work, we need copy and paste first
If I want to run process intensive apps in the background - like IM perhaps - it's my choice. I don't have to run it in the background. With the iPhone, it's Apple's choice. I personally prefer to be in control...
Then the iPhone isn't for you.
Pretty simple, eh?
Even though multitasking is possible in the iphone, what is beautiful about it in the PRE is the user interface to it! Tell me how Apple is going to bolt on multitasking
You do realize that the iPhone OS already multitasks? They just don't expose that functionality to developers?
or non-intrusive notifications without breaking the software it is already running.They have to deal with their legacy UI decisions...
Ah yes, because it's impossible to update shipping software. They are so screwed in implementing copy and paste.
Oh, wait....
The card metaphor for the PRE was brilliant and that is what really makes multitasking on it unique... I think Apple will eventually add multitasking - but I have no idea what their UI to it will be...
It remains to be seen how brilliant the card metaphor is. The phones haven't been getting heavy use. And there is nothing to say that Apple doesn't already have something in mind for the future.
In fact I would be shocked if they didn't. The SDK didn't happen overnight - it was obviously always part of the plan, although they did seem to take their sweet time with copy and paste.
I think it's reasonable to expect some of what was described in some of the rumors - one or two special positions on the rumored replacement for the iPhone app launcher that allow apps placed in those slots to run in the background. Really the only two apps that I can think of that have to run in the background are apps like Pandora that stream music and where parity with the iPod app would be desirable, and apps that access things like the GPS. I would love to be able to keep Trails on while I am taking pictures so my GPS tagging is always up to date.
I think this is a good compromise between allowing background apps but not allowing users to totally shoot themselves in the foot - it makes it a little more obvious what is happening.
Time will tell...
...And if you do run out of battery, you can always switch it with a new one. Something the iPhone lacks. Oh, and at least I don't have to buy a new phone if my battery dies (or take it to Apple), all I have to do is go to Amazon and buy a new battery, and switch it.
Every time I read about being able to swap in a fresh battery, I think "right. that's good!".
But say you have 2 or 3 batteries. How do you deal with the practical issue of keeping them all charged? The thought of that gives me a headache.
For my current phone, I charge it while I'm sleeping. Simple. No thinking/planning/worrying required.
I would be surprised if Palm has any repair process for any component. These electronics components are not like the cylinder head of your car.
Repair of any specific component within ANY cellphone almost never happens. Instead, manufacturers replace failed components with brand new components.
If subassembly X fails, it is replaced with a new subassembly X. The failed component is then sold to a vendor where its raw materials are reclaimed.
Cell phone subcomponents are virtually NEVER repaired, except in the extremely rare case where an expensive subcomponent has a very common failure mode, and which can be permanently repaired very inexpensively.
As I understand it, when you send your phone to Palm for repair, you don't actually get the same phone back. Instead they just swap it with a refurbished one.
... On average iPhone users have around 100 apps loaded...
Seriously?!!? People really load that many apps? Wow! Clearly I'm holding the average down.