That I disagree with. Heck, you can't even terminate programs on windows mobile without resorting to third party apps or development tools!
Intelligent multitasking that's user oriented is a new fangled feature.
Wow, what incredible insight. How long have you been on the iPhone dev team?
How about this - like with any project, there are a list of goals and features. Those get prioritized. Since Apple is user oriented instead of useless feature, geek checklist oriented, multi-tasking is further down on the list. Just like copy paste and the SDK. So far their strategy seems to be effective (their sales success speaks volumes), and only improving.
Bottom line - yes, the iPhone could stand for more features like multitasking. But here's the deal - even if they froze the OS right now it's still light years ahead of any other smartphone on the market - and from I have seen, that includes the Pre. Thing is, Apple isn't standing still. Unlike any previous smartphone (or PDA) I have owned, they are pushing out updates. Regularly. I get new functionality, supported by the manufacturer (not hacked in), on a routine basis. How cool is that?
Well put.
And, as I and others have noted, prioritizing a processor heavy OS that enables a lot of user facing features down the road is simply planning ahead.
Sure, it might mean some constraints early on, but hardware gets faster. Apple didn't make the iPhone until they could get a fair bit of OS X running on the available hardware, and having built the underpinnings of a seriously capable mobile OS that works seamlessly with their desktop OS (because they are, for all intents and purposes, the same thing) they can extend functionality as far as tomorrow's hardware will permit.
MS and Nokia, on the other hand, made Windows CE and Symbian to run on the far more constrained hardware of some years ago, and are now obliged to bolt on parts in order to make their respective choices act more like "real" operating systems, now that handheld machines are capable of running such.
Palm has elected to use the light weight WebOS to get zippy performance and multitasking out of the gate, but will have to deal with the built in constraints that tradeoff engenders, down the road.
As DocNo42 notes, it's always about tradeoffs and priorities and what the designer considers the most important goals. Apple's goal is to erase the distinction between "computer" and "phone", and they brought the OS to do it.
As far as I can tell, the goal of most of the rest of the industry is to jam as many bullet point features as possible onto each new release, and come up with some pretty splash screens and animations that will look nice in ads.
The Pre and Android are bucking the trend, but they, of course, have their own limitations and compromises based on what their designers deemed top priority.
Not surprising given that Rubenstein was probably able to poach a bunch of former Apple engineers.
Besides the keyboard which seems to be very small and uncomfortable for male hands, the Palm pre looks very nice. The next-gen 600Mhz ARM Cortex-A8 is blazing fast --- twice as fast as the older iPhone ARM11 at a given frequency and running 50% higher clockspeed --- and the PoweVR "SGX-530" graphics core is also a lot better than the "MBX lite" in the iPhone.
The OS and interface is well designed and engineered and provides a very good experience. I think one major challenge will be how well they integrate the programming API into the lower-level subsystems. If developers are stuck with basic HTML/CSS and Javascript without things like hardware accelerated SVG/Canvas, javascript->OpenGL bindings, custom high-level 3D Javascript library, etc, then the applications will be pretty limited, and you can forget about advanced iPhone-level games.
Why do you people always conveniently forget that Smartphone OSs have been multitasking for years, smoothly and elegantly? You banter on about it as if it was this new fangled feature that's in its infancy. Multitasking is incredibly useful for quickly and easily switching between applications instead of having to quit out of one, and start another from the launcher. Of course, it also means you can stay logged into IM clients, etc, and do other things at the same time. The iPhone doesn't have it simply because Apple didn't design the OS to be lean enough for the hardware it runs on. They could have quite easily done it if they had worked harder at it to reduce the footprint of the OS and apps, but they didn't, and that was their choice.
The only thing stoping the iPhone from doing user multitasking is Apple. Simple as that. People seem to forget that iPhone is multitasking anyways to support the GSM connection and mail in background. Even when notifications come you still need a background process to monitor for and process those notifications.
The issue with battery drain is bogus anyways. If you have processes that eat up battery life simply don't run them unless needed. How much power a background app will use is dependant on how it is written an how often it is scheduled.
As a side note it was just pointed out to me that yes indeed mail runs in background or at least part of it does. How do I know; because just before the new mail announcement is made typing gets really slow. If nothing else it demonstrates that iPhone needs either faster processors or SMP hardware.
The iPhone doesn't have it simply because Apple didn't design the OS to be lean enough for the hardware it runs on.
This comments reiterates one of the statements Palm made when the device was introduced back in January. This is the most stupid one of all.
Steve Jobs quoted Wayne Gretzky many times:
Quote:
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been.
iPhone OS runs smoothly on the current hardware, and the hardware is going to get faster. Apple has a scalable OS, great SDK and a huge developer following. The iPhone OS is the greatest iPhone advantage. No one will beat it any time soon.
Note that none of the Palm reviews says that the Pre is noticeably faster. With a 150% faster processor, twice the RAM and "a lean, device optimized OS" it should feel MUCH faster. Apparently, it dosn't, not to mention the games/ Open GL stuff. I tried the pre briefly, browsing the images seems a little bit sluggish compared to the iPhone. Browsing the web looked about the same, I expected it to be faster.
Good job Palm... the Pre at least appears to be in the same class as the iphone, unlike the other alleged "iphone killers". That being said, I'll be upgrading to the new iPhone the day of its release.
Video chatting and movie rentals right from my pocket? Are you serious?
Apple has a patent for predictive text UI that lists words that look like the word you are attempting to type. That allows you to more easily select the exact word. This UI is used in Google's iPhone app. I wonder why Apple does not use it system wide.
The developer has the option to use predictive text any time the app displays the keyboard. However, it only makes sense in fields for entering free-form text (comments, notes, instructions). It doesn't make sense to use it in a URL, name, address, etc.
Mmmm... If the S60 is as good as you say, and the iPhone as bad... Why do you have an iPhone at all? You could just use the S60 and spare yourself (and the rest of us) your disappointment.
Dick
Hmmmm, can't really see the point where I said S60 was so good. Can you please point me to exactly where I said that? In fact, the post you quoted simply states that both browsers are based on the WebKit engine.
Quote:
That I disagree with. Heck, you can't even terminate programs on windows mobile without resorting to third party apps or development tools!
I used WinMo once, about 4 years ago. Really, I'm talking about S60.
Quote:
iPhone OS runs smoothly on the current hardware, and the hardware is going to get faster
That's not true! The iPhone OS has plenty of slow downs and stalls, either because the hardware isn't powerful enough to run it, or it's been coded inefficiently. To name but a few that I experience regularly: swiping to unlock - I can have done the swiping motion, but it's another few seconds before the device catches up and actually moves the toggle. Pressing the sleep button, can take anywhere from a fraction of a second to 5 seconds for the device to actually shut off. Pressing the view tabs button in Safari, again can take anywhere from a fraction of a second to 5 seconds to display open tabs. Opening settings, mail, safari, can all take a few seconds too. Typing in Safari can be painfully slow - so much so that the device completely misses out animating certain key presses.
Needless to say, the OS running smoothly on the hardware is not really one of the iPhone's current strong points! Hopefully Apple have picked up the pace with the rumoured 3rd gen device and the faster processor and more RAM - heck the phone needs it!
In computer networking, a Media Access Control address (MAC address) is a unique identifier assigned to most network adapters or network interface cards (NICs) by the manufacturer for identification
Nice quote from wikipedia. If you actually knew what you were talking about instead of copying and pasting text from web sites, you would understand that the MAC address is only valid on your local subnet. As soon as the packet moves to the other side of your router, your MAC address is replaced with the routers MAC address, and so on. By the time the packets get to AI's servers, they are on the sixth or more MAC address.
And even if the MAC address survived end to end, they can easily be spoofed or changed.
MAC addresses are a poor security method - anywhere.
The only real security for trolls such as yourself are vigilant admins that delete your account as soon as you rear your butt ugly head.
Again AT&T sucks. ANy other 3G network around the world doesn't have the problems this crappy network has in the US. But then you would probably accept the KoolAid carrier as long as it was attached to the iPhone. Dude- you are in denial- BIG TIME.
I don't write the review of AT&T or write the articles that rate it at the bottom of Consumer Reports. I'm not that omnipresent or as powerful as you all seem to think. And I don't morph into different profiles either.
What is the difference between AT$T having problems in certain locations and Verizon in others. My verizon phone was useless in the mountains outside of Alanta but that doesn't make them worst than other vendors, just had coverage in that area.
That doesn't even touch upon the corruption with respect to installing cell towers. Especially with local communities. Sometimes a company simply has to wait for more ethical people to be elected.
My personal exoerience is that AT&T is a far better deal in my local area than Verizon was. I've had great results with them in Las Vegas and other places I've traveled. At home around Rochester NY they do have better call quality than the competition.
Nice quote from wikipedia. If you actually knew what you were talking about instead of copying and pasting text from web sites, you would understand that the MAC address is only valid on your local subnet. As soon as the packet moves to the other side of your router, your MAC address is replaced with the routers MAC address, and so on. By the time the packets get to AI's servers, they are on the sixth or more MAC address.
For the first time in regards to his posts here I googled. He did literally copy that from Wikipedia. That is rich!
As for the originating MAC address, I maybe wrong as it?s been a long time since I dealt with it, but I thought that the header preamble maintained the original MAC address, even after jumping networks.
"I have a business acquaintance that had the luxury of playing with the Pre for about a week. He's a BB user, and thinks the Pre will fade with user abandonment like the first gen Storm. Curiously he said the phone's quality and it's ability to keep your attention is LOW. We will see."
I pulled the above text from a post I made a couple days ago. I think other people are coming to the same realization as my friend did. Go Apple!
I don't think the pre will die for a long time. this battery argument is so ridiculous. Apple has total mind control over apple fans it is so sad. The battery life is my choice with the pre. I have a pre and an iphone 3g. The pre WITH multitasking gets about the same battery life as the 3g give or take 30 minutes. The reason the iphone doesn't multitask is because the phone doesn't have the power to do it. With the pre I can have 6-10 apps open and still scroll through contacts or type an email lag free. On my iphone if I play music in the backround safari crashes. I scroll through contacts and it lags when nothing elde is going on. On the pre I am typing this msg while 3 other browsers are open and when I go back to them the page is still there it doesn't have to reload, I have 2 you tube videos also buffering in the backround and still with all 6 of these apps open I can type this msg with no lag. Also the browser has never crashed even with 12 apps open. This is amazing because my battery still lasts a day. The iphone is good the pre is a little better for me because the multitask is needed. I know the pre will be around for a long time especially in february 2010 when its on sprint, At&t, and verizon. The pre will blow up with users.
As for the originating MAC address, I maybe wrong as it?s been a long time since I dealt with it, but I thought that the header preamble maintained the original MAC address, even after jumping networks.
If you think about it, there is really no benefit from the space overhead in passing the original MAC address along - it's only useful if you can directly address the device - i.e. you are on the same subnet.
Once you cross the subnet boundary (i.e. at a router) the MAC address is useless...
If you think about it, there is really no benefit from the space overhead in passing the original MAC address along - it's only useful if you can directly address the device - i.e. you are on the same subnet.
Once you cross the subnet boundary (i.e. at a router) the MAC address is useless...
Anything involving IP addresses is the Network layer, which gets encapsulated by the Datalink Layer, which does contain a MAC address source. I was wrong in that it is not in the preamble, though it isn the header. This is very important for routers as IP addresses can easily change and sometimes be in conflict if DHCP is not setup, and sometimes if it is, which can be a real bitch to troubleshoot. But I am still not sure if that is the source MAC from the previous hop or the from the original node.
Nice quote from wikipedia. If you actually knew what you were talking about instead of copying and pasting text from web sites, you would understand that the MAC address is only valid on your local subnet. As soon as the packet moves to the other side of your router, your MAC address is replaced with the routers MAC address, and so on. By the time the packets get to AI's servers, they are on the sixth or more MAC address.
And even if the MAC address survived end to end, they can easily be spoofed or changed.
MAC addresses are a poor security method - anywhere.
The only real security for trolls such as yourself are vigilant admins that delete your account as soon as you rear your butt ugly head.
It shouldn't be long now...
Well admin can contact his isp . And complain about his abusive language. No?
This comments reiterates one of the statements Palm made when the device was introduced back in January. This is the most stupid one of all.
Steve Jobs quoted Wayne Gretzky many times:
iPhone OS runs smoothly on the current hardware, and the hardware is going to get faster. Apple has a scalable OS, great SDK and a huge developer following. The iPhone OS is the greatest iPhone advantage. No one will beat it any time soon.
Note that none of the Palm reviews says that the Pre is noticeably faster. With a 150% faster processor, twice the RAM and "a lean, device optimized OS" it should feel MUCH faster. Apparently, it dosn't, not to mention the games/ Open GL stuff. I tried the pre briefly, browsing the images seems a little bit sluggish compared to the iPhone. Browsing the web looked about the same, I expected it to be faster.
yeah... Jobs has a habit of quoting random, stupid crap..thinking it's smart.
I don't think the pre will die for a long time. this battery argument is so ridiculous. Apple has total mind control over apple fans it is so sad. The battery life is my choice with the pre. I have a pre and an iphone 3g. The pre WITH multitasking gets about the same battery life as the 3g give or take 30 minutes. The reason the iphone doesn't multitask is because the phone doesn't have the power to do it. With the pre I can have 6-10 apps open and still scroll through contacts or type an email lag free. On my iphone if I play music in the backround safari crashes. I scroll through contacts and it lags when nothing elde is going on. On the pre I am typing this msg while 3 other browsers are open and when I go back to them the page is still there it doesn't have to reload, I have 2 you tube videos also buffering in the backround and still with all 6 of these apps open I can type this msg with no lag. Also the browser has never crashed even with 12 apps open. This is amazing because my battery still lasts a day. The iphone is good the pre is a little better for me because the multitask is needed. I know the pre will be around for a long time especially in february 2010 when its on sprint, At&t, and verizon. The pre will blow up with users.
Anything involving IP addresses is the Network layer, which gets encapsulated by the Datalink Layer, which does contain the MAC address. I was wrong in that it is not in the preamble, though it isn the header.
Yup, I was just coming back to correct my post - I confused the ethernet header with the IPV4 header - d'oh!
But still, the hardware source and destination addresses get updated each time the packet moves across a router.
i.e Computer on Network A sends a packet that crosses router 1 to network B which crosses router 2 to Network C which has our destination host.
Computer A creates a packet and in the Ethernet header it inserts it's MAC address as the source, and the router that is it's default gateway as the destination.
Then Router 1 looks up the destination IP address in it's routing table, figures out which interface is connected to the network that can get the packet on it's way (network B in my example) and re-crafts the ethernet header with the source address being equivalent to the MAC address of the routers interface on Network B and the destination interface the MAC address of router 2.
Router 2 does the same thing all over, it gets the packet, pulls out the IPV4 destination address, does a lookup to find which interface has the network or device with the destination IP and then it re-writes the ethernet header. This time, the router can talk directly to the destination host, so instead of the MAC address of another router, it uses the devices MAC address. So it rewrites (for the last time) the ethernet header with the source address as the MAC address for the interface on network C, and the destination MAC address for the host.
You can't confuse (like I did) the HARDWARE (layer 2) address for devices vs. the LOGICAL (layer 3) address. Ethernet itself is layer 2, IP is layer 3.
Quote:
PS: Have we forgotten our OSI model?
Apparently I had, but after I typed it and submitted it, it didn't sound right so I ended up going to the same place you did
Whew, haven't thought about this stuff in this detail for some time. Moving into managment and away from day to day sysadmin work sucks \
Comments
Ok, this I agree with...
That I disagree with. Heck, you can't even terminate programs on windows mobile without resorting to third party apps or development tools!
Intelligent multitasking that's user oriented is a new fangled feature.
Wow, what incredible insight. How long have you been on the iPhone dev team?
How about this - like with any project, there are a list of goals and features. Those get prioritized. Since Apple is user oriented instead of useless feature, geek checklist oriented, multi-tasking is further down on the list. Just like copy paste and the SDK. So far their strategy seems to be effective (their sales success speaks volumes), and only improving.
Bottom line - yes, the iPhone could stand for more features like multitasking. But here's the deal - even if they froze the OS right now it's still light years ahead of any other smartphone on the market - and from I have seen, that includes the Pre. Thing is, Apple isn't standing still. Unlike any previous smartphone (or PDA) I have owned, they are pushing out updates. Regularly. I get new functionality, supported by the manufacturer (not hacked in), on a routine basis. How cool is that?
Well put.
And, as I and others have noted, prioritizing a processor heavy OS that enables a lot of user facing features down the road is simply planning ahead.
Sure, it might mean some constraints early on, but hardware gets faster. Apple didn't make the iPhone until they could get a fair bit of OS X running on the available hardware, and having built the underpinnings of a seriously capable mobile OS that works seamlessly with their desktop OS (because they are, for all intents and purposes, the same thing) they can extend functionality as far as tomorrow's hardware will permit.
MS and Nokia, on the other hand, made Windows CE and Symbian to run on the far more constrained hardware of some years ago, and are now obliged to bolt on parts in order to make their respective choices act more like "real" operating systems, now that handheld machines are capable of running such.
Palm has elected to use the light weight WebOS to get zippy performance and multitasking out of the gate, but will have to deal with the built in constraints that tradeoff engenders, down the road.
As DocNo42 notes, it's always about tradeoffs and priorities and what the designer considers the most important goals. Apple's goal is to erase the distinction between "computer" and "phone", and they brought the OS to do it.
As far as I can tell, the goal of most of the rest of the industry is to jam as many bullet point features as possible onto each new release, and come up with some pretty splash screens and animations that will look nice in ads.
The Pre and Android are bucking the trend, but they, of course, have their own limitations and compromises based on what their designers deemed top priority.
Besides the keyboard which seems to be very small and uncomfortable for male hands, the Palm pre looks very nice. The next-gen 600Mhz ARM Cortex-A8 is blazing fast --- twice as fast as the older iPhone ARM11 at a given frequency and running 50% higher clockspeed --- and the PoweVR "SGX-530" graphics core is also a lot better than the "MBX lite" in the iPhone.
The OS and interface is well designed and engineered and provides a very good experience. I think one major challenge will be how well they integrate the programming API into the lower-level subsystems. If developers are stuck with basic HTML/CSS and Javascript without things like hardware accelerated SVG/Canvas, javascript->OpenGL bindings, custom high-level 3D Javascript library, etc, then the applications will be pretty limited, and you can forget about advanced iPhone-level games.
Why do you people always conveniently forget that Smartphone OSs have been multitasking for years, smoothly and elegantly? You banter on about it as if it was this new fangled feature that's in its infancy. Multitasking is incredibly useful for quickly and easily switching between applications instead of having to quit out of one, and start another from the launcher. Of course, it also means you can stay logged into IM clients, etc, and do other things at the same time. The iPhone doesn't have it simply because Apple didn't design the OS to be lean enough for the hardware it runs on. They could have quite easily done it if they had worked harder at it to reduce the footprint of the OS and apps, but they didn't, and that was their choice.
The only thing stoping the iPhone from doing user multitasking is Apple. Simple as that. People seem to forget that iPhone is multitasking anyways to support the GSM connection and mail in background. Even when notifications come you still need a background process to monitor for and process those notifications.
The issue with battery drain is bogus anyways. If you have processes that eat up battery life simply don't run them unless needed. How much power a background app will use is dependant on how it is written an how often it is scheduled.
As a side note it was just pointed out to me that yes indeed mail runs in background or at least part of it does. How do I know; because just before the new mail announcement is made typing gets really slow. If nothing else it demonstrates that iPhone needs either faster processors or SMP hardware.
Dave
The iPhone doesn't have it simply because Apple didn't design the OS to be lean enough for the hardware it runs on.
This comments reiterates one of the statements Palm made when the device was introduced back in January. This is the most stupid one of all.
Steve Jobs quoted Wayne Gretzky many times:
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been.
iPhone OS runs smoothly on the current hardware, and the hardware is going to get faster. Apple has a scalable OS, great SDK and a huge developer following. The iPhone OS is the greatest iPhone advantage. No one will beat it any time soon.
Note that none of the Palm reviews says that the Pre is noticeably faster. With a 150% faster processor, twice the RAM and "a lean, device optimized OS" it should feel MUCH faster. Apparently, it dosn't, not to mention the games/ Open GL stuff. I tried the pre briefly, browsing the images seems a little bit sluggish compared to the iPhone. Browsing the web looked about the same, I expected it to be faster.
Video chatting and movie rentals right from my pocket? Are you serious?
Game over!
Apple has a patent for predictive text UI that lists words that look like the word you are attempting to type. That allows you to more easily select the exact word. This UI is used in Google's iPhone app. I wonder why Apple does not use it system wide.
The developer has the option to use predictive text any time the app displays the keyboard. However, it only makes sense in fields for entering free-form text (comments, notes, instructions). It doesn't make sense to use it in a URL, name, address, etc.
Mmmm... If the S60 is as good as you say, and the iPhone as bad... Why do you have an iPhone at all? You could just use the S60 and spare yourself (and the rest of us) your disappointment.
Dick
Hmmmm, can't really see the point where I said S60 was so good. Can you please point me to exactly where I said that? In fact, the post you quoted simply states that both browsers are based on the WebKit engine.
That I disagree with. Heck, you can't even terminate programs on windows mobile without resorting to third party apps or development tools!
I used WinMo once, about 4 years ago. Really, I'm talking about S60.
iPhone OS runs smoothly on the current hardware, and the hardware is going to get faster
That's not true! The iPhone OS has plenty of slow downs and stalls, either because the hardware isn't powerful enough to run it, or it's been coded inefficiently. To name but a few that I experience regularly: swiping to unlock - I can have done the swiping motion, but it's another few seconds before the device catches up and actually moves the toggle. Pressing the sleep button, can take anywhere from a fraction of a second to 5 seconds for the device to actually shut off. Pressing the view tabs button in Safari, again can take anywhere from a fraction of a second to 5 seconds to display open tabs. Opening settings, mail, safari, can all take a few seconds too. Typing in Safari can be painfully slow - so much so that the device completely misses out animating certain key presses.
Needless to say, the OS running smoothly on the hardware is not really one of the iPhone's current strong points! Hopefully Apple have picked up the pace with the rumoured 3rd gen device and the faster processor and more RAM - heck the phone needs it!
In computer networking, a Media Access Control address (MAC address) is a unique identifier assigned to most network adapters or network interface cards (NICs) by the manufacturer for identification
Nice quote from wikipedia. If you actually knew what you were talking about instead of copying and pasting text from web sites, you would understand that the MAC address is only valid on your local subnet. As soon as the packet moves to the other side of your router, your MAC address is replaced with the routers MAC address, and so on. By the time the packets get to AI's servers, they are on the sixth or more MAC address.
And even if the MAC address survived end to end, they can easily be spoofed or changed.
MAC addresses are a poor security method - anywhere.
The only real security for trolls such as yourself are vigilant admins that delete your account as soon as you rear your butt ugly head.
It shouldn't be long now...
You are a wanna be with quick access to google and a thesaurus to make yourself sound smart.
Now that's funny
Pot, kettle....
Again AT&T sucks. ANy other 3G network around the world doesn't have the problems this crappy network has in the US. But then you would probably accept the KoolAid carrier as long as it was attached to the iPhone. Dude- you are in denial- BIG TIME.
I don't write the review of AT&T or write the articles that rate it at the bottom of Consumer Reports. I'm not that omnipresent or as powerful as you all seem to think. And I don't morph into different profiles either.
What is the difference between AT$T having problems in certain locations and Verizon in others. My verizon phone was useless in the mountains outside of Alanta but that doesn't make them worst than other vendors, just had coverage in that area.
That doesn't even touch upon the corruption with respect to installing cell towers. Especially with local communities. Sometimes a company simply has to wait for more ethical people to be elected.
My personal exoerience is that AT&T is a far better deal in my local area than Verizon was. I've had great results with them in Las Vegas and other places I've traveled. At home around Rochester NY they do have better call quality than the competition.
Dave
Nice quote from wikipedia. If you actually knew what you were talking about instead of copying and pasting text from web sites, you would understand that the MAC address is only valid on your local subnet. As soon as the packet moves to the other side of your router, your MAC address is replaced with the routers MAC address, and so on. By the time the packets get to AI's servers, they are on the sixth or more MAC address.
As for the originating MAC address, I maybe wrong as it?s been a long time since I dealt with it, but I thought that the header preamble maintained the original MAC address, even after jumping networks.
"I have a business acquaintance that had the luxury of playing with the Pre for about a week. He's a BB user, and thinks the Pre will fade with user abandonment like the first gen Storm. Curiously he said the phone's quality and it's ability to keep your attention is LOW. We will see."
I pulled the above text from a post I made a couple days ago. I think other people are coming to the same realization as my friend did. Go Apple!
I don't think the pre will die for a long time. this battery argument is so ridiculous. Apple has total mind control over apple fans it is so sad. The battery life is my choice with the pre. I have a pre and an iphone 3g. The pre WITH multitasking gets about the same battery life as the 3g give or take 30 minutes. The reason the iphone doesn't multitask is because the phone doesn't have the power to do it. With the pre I can have 6-10 apps open and still scroll through contacts or type an email lag free. On my iphone if I play music in the backround safari crashes. I scroll through contacts and it lags when nothing elde is going on. On the pre I am typing this msg while 3 other browsers are open and when I go back to them the page is still there it doesn't have to reload, I have 2 you tube videos also buffering in the backround and still with all 6 of these apps open I can type this msg with no lag. Also the browser has never crashed even with 12 apps open. This is amazing because my battery still lasts a day. The iphone is good the pre is a little better for me because the multitask is needed. I know the pre will be around for a long time especially in february 2010 when its on sprint, At&t, and verizon. The pre will blow up with users.
As for the originating MAC address, I maybe wrong as it?s been a long time since I dealt with it, but I thought that the header preamble maintained the original MAC address, even after jumping networks.
Nope.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPv4#Header
If you think about it, there is really no benefit from the space overhead in passing the original MAC address along - it's only useful if you can directly address the device - i.e. you are on the same subnet.
Once you cross the subnet boundary (i.e. at a router) the MAC address is useless...
Nope.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPv4#Header
If you think about it, there is really no benefit from the space overhead in passing the original MAC address along - it's only useful if you can directly address the device - i.e. you are on the same subnet.
Once you cross the subnet boundary (i.e. at a router) the MAC address is useless...
Anything involving IP addresses is the Network layer, which gets encapsulated by the Datalink Layer, which does contain a MAC address source. I was wrong in that it is not in the preamble, though it isn the header. This is very important for routers as IP addresses can easily change and sometimes be in conflict if DHCP is not setup, and sometimes if it is, which can be a real bitch to troubleshoot. But I am still not sure if that is the source MAC from the previous hop or the from the original node.
PS: Have we forgotten our OSI model?
Nice quote from wikipedia. If you actually knew what you were talking about instead of copying and pasting text from web sites, you would understand that the MAC address is only valid on your local subnet. As soon as the packet moves to the other side of your router, your MAC address is replaced with the routers MAC address, and so on. By the time the packets get to AI's servers, they are on the sixth or more MAC address.
And even if the MAC address survived end to end, they can easily be spoofed or changed.
MAC addresses are a poor security method - anywhere.
The only real security for trolls such as yourself are vigilant admins that delete your account as soon as you rear your butt ugly head.
It shouldn't be long now...
Well admin can contact his isp . And complain about his abusive language. No?
This comments reiterates one of the statements Palm made when the device was introduced back in January. This is the most stupid one of all.
Steve Jobs quoted Wayne Gretzky many times:
iPhone OS runs smoothly on the current hardware, and the hardware is going to get faster. Apple has a scalable OS, great SDK and a huge developer following. The iPhone OS is the greatest iPhone advantage. No one will beat it any time soon.
Note that none of the Palm reviews says that the Pre is noticeably faster. With a 150% faster processor, twice the RAM and "a lean, device optimized OS" it should feel MUCH faster. Apparently, it dosn't, not to mention the games/ Open GL stuff. I tried the pre briefly, browsing the images seems a little bit sluggish compared to the iPhone. Browsing the web looked about the same, I expected it to be faster.
yeah... Jobs has a habit of quoting random, stupid crap..thinking it's smart.
I don't think the pre will die for a long time. this battery argument is so ridiculous. Apple has total mind control over apple fans it is so sad. The battery life is my choice with the pre. I have a pre and an iphone 3g. The pre WITH multitasking gets about the same battery life as the 3g give or take 30 minutes. The reason the iphone doesn't multitask is because the phone doesn't have the power to do it. With the pre I can have 6-10 apps open and still scroll through contacts or type an email lag free. On my iphone if I play music in the backround safari crashes. I scroll through contacts and it lags when nothing elde is going on. On the pre I am typing this msg while 3 other browsers are open and when I go back to them the page is still there it doesn't have to reload, I have 2 you tube videos also buffering in the backround and still with all 6 of these apps open I can type this msg with no lag. Also the browser has never crashed even with 12 apps open. This is amazing because my battery still lasts a day. The iphone is good the pre is a little better for me because the multitask is needed. I know the pre will be around for a long time especially in february 2010 when its on sprint, At&t, and verizon. The pre will blow up with users.
You have the PRE ? The PRE is out already ?
Anything involving IP addresses is the Network layer, which gets encapsulated by the Datalink Layer, which does contain the MAC address. I was wrong in that it is not in the preamble, though it isn the header.
Yup, I was just coming back to correct my post - I confused the ethernet header with the IPV4 header - d'oh!
But still, the hardware source and destination addresses get updated each time the packet moves across a router.
i.e Computer on Network A sends a packet that crosses router 1 to network B which crosses router 2 to Network C which has our destination host.
Computer A creates a packet and in the Ethernet header it inserts it's MAC address as the source, and the router that is it's default gateway as the destination.
Then Router 1 looks up the destination IP address in it's routing table, figures out which interface is connected to the network that can get the packet on it's way (network B in my example) and re-crafts the ethernet header with the source address being equivalent to the MAC address of the routers interface on Network B and the destination interface the MAC address of router 2.
Router 2 does the same thing all over, it gets the packet, pulls out the IPV4 destination address, does a lookup to find which interface has the network or device with the destination IP and then it re-writes the ethernet header. This time, the router can talk directly to the destination host, so instead of the MAC address of another router, it uses the devices MAC address. So it rewrites (for the last time) the ethernet header with the source address as the MAC address for the interface on network C, and the destination MAC address for the host.
You can't confuse (like I did) the HARDWARE (layer 2) address for devices vs. the LOGICAL (layer 3) address. Ethernet itself is layer 2, IP is layer 3.
PS: Have we forgotten our OSI model?
Apparently I had, but after I typed it and submitted it, it didn't sound right so I ended up going to the same place you did
Whew, haven't thought about this stuff in this detail for some time. Moving into managment and away from day to day sysadmin work sucks
You have the PRE ? The PRE is out already ?
Yes..
You have the PRE ? The PRE is out already ?
lol... didn't you see the long lines yesterday?