What are you talking about? Oh1 That's was a stupid debate for all of us. and I wasn't wrong about it either.
So you weren't one of the ones insisting it was 10M by the end of 2008, despite the fact that Apple said IN on many occasions? Then sorry, I must have been thinking of someone else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
And your numbers are so far off as to be unreasonable. Yu haven't addressed that, have you? Why?
They're not my numbers, I just passed along what the sources reported.
So you weren't one of the ones insisting it was 10M by the end of 2008, despite the fact that Apple said IN on many occasions? Then sorry, I must have been thinking of someone else.
What I said at the time was that "in" and "by the end" of is saying the same thing.
December 30th is "in". So is June 23rd.
I wasn't commenting on "when" the "in" would take place.
Quote:
They're not my numbers, I just passed along what the sources reported.
You didn't actually report "numbers". They gave one number, the same one we all saw. It's the meaning of the rest of the sentence we're disagreeing about.
Sorry, I just went back and checked, and you were one of those insisting they meant 10M by the end of 2008 when they repeatedly said IN 2008. And apple repeatedly clarified it. And apple ended up selling 10M IN 2008, just as they said they would, meaning they sold the first 10M well before the end of the year and ended the year with well more than 10M.
It was bad enough you dragged out that stupid argument, but at this point it's just sad that you don't have the class to be man enough to admit you were wrong.
What I said at the time was that "in" and "by the end" of is saying the same thing.
December 30th is "in". So is June 23rd.
I wasn't commenting on "when" the "in" would take place.
Yep, that's what you said. And it turned out that your interpretation was wrong, they meant 10M during the course of the year, and they exceeded that. Why is it so hard for you to admit you were wrong on that one?
Sorry, I just went back and checked, and you were one of those insisting they meant 10M by the end of 2008 when they repeatedly said IN 2008. And apple repeatedly clarified it. And apple ended up selling 10M IN 2008, just as they said they would, meaning they sold the first 10M well before the end of the year and ended the year with well more than 10M.
It was bad enough you dragged out that stupid argument, but at this point it's just sad that you don't have the class to be man enough to admit you were wrong.
I didn't drag it out, you did.
But you have problems understanding English, or you would understand what I meant, and why they are the same.
You are saying that selling 10M during calendar year 2008 is the same as selling 10M total including 2007 sales by some point in 2008?
We all got into that confused argument. At times it was thought that Apple was saying fiscal year, then calendar year. That's what caused the argument in the first place.
Those who were thinking (I was one of them for a while) fiscal year, were thinking end of September. The rest were thinking end of December.
Then some were thinking July, as in 12 months after the introduction.
It was all very confusing, and unnecessary. Why bring it up again?
We all got into that confused argument. At times it was thought that Apple was saying fiscal year, then calendar year. That's what caused the argument in the first place.
Those who were thinking (I was one of them for a while) fiscal year, were thinking end of September. The rest were thinking end of December.
Then some were thinking July, as in 12 months after the introduction.
It was all very confusing, and unnecessary. Why bring it up again?
This new argument should be cleared up shortly.
Apple said "10M in 2008" every time they commented on it. People like you insisted that "10M in 2008" meant something other than "10M in 2008". They never said fiscal year, and when they were asked to clarify, they did say calendar year.
It's not clear from your post, are you finally admitting that you were wrong or not?
Apple said "10M in 2008" every time they commented on it. People like you insisted that "10M in 2008" meant something other than "10M in 2008". They never said fiscal year, and when they were asked to clarify, they did say calendar year.
It's not clear from your post, are you finally admitting that you were wrong or not?
Man, can't you read something, and understand it, even though you're not happy about it?
Why can't you understand that "in" 2008 MEANS "by the end of 2008", and visa versa?
I didn't say "at the end of 2008". That would indicate that it MUST be at the end.
You're actually trying to not understand this!
When someone says to you that something is "less than 10", do you understand that it means 9.9 as well as 6?
But as Piper Jaffray analyst Gene Munster points out in a report to clients Wednesday, Apple did clear up one nagging ambiguity: does the company?s oft-stated goal of selling 10 million iPhones in 2008 mean that it hopes to sell 10 million phones within this calender year, or 10 million phones between June 29, 2007 and Dec. 31, 2008? It?s a question often argued in heated words in the comment threads of Apple blogs (including this one). ?We confirmed with Apple,? writes Munster, ?that the goal is to sell 10m iPhones ?in CY08′ alone.?
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
Why can't you understand that "in" 2008 MEANS "by the end of 2008", and visa versa?
Because that's not what it means. Why can't you understand that "in 2008" means "in 2008"?
Just listen to what you are saying - that somehow "in 2008" means "in 2008 plus the end of 2007"? Seriously?
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
I didn't say "at the end of 2008". That would indicate that it MUST be at the end.
And I didn't say you said that. I understand what you said. And it has been made clear many times that it is wrong. I'm actually pretty dumbfounded that you're still clinging to the hope that you might be right after so much time and so many clarifications.
Because that's not what it means. Why can't you understand that "in 2008" means "in 2008"?
Just listen to what you are saying - that somehow "in 2008" means "in 2008 plus the end of 2007"? Seriously?
I'm not talking about 2007, you are!
I'm talking about in 2008, by the end of 2008. You keep bringing up 2007.
Quote:
And I didn't say you said that. I understand what you said. And it has been made clear many times that it is wrong. I'm actually pretty dumbfounded that you're still clinging to the hope that you might be right after so much time and so many clarifications.
Because you keep confusing what you THINK I said with what I keep saying.
Quote:
Sorry, but you are in no position to lecture me.
You should be sorry, because you keep confusing things.
You're saying that you said they'd sell 10M during the period of time from Jan 1 2008 to December 31 2008?
Or you're saying they'd sell 10M during the period of time from when they started selling mid 2007 and the end of 2008?
(you had been insisting on the latter, have you changed your mind since then?)
The only time I said late 2007 to sometime in 2008 was in the very beginning of the debate when it wasn't clear that Apple wasn't talking about fiscal year as had been written as attributed to them by some financial writers. After that, no.
So to be clear, you're saying that you said they'd sell 10M during the period of time from Jan 1 2008 to December 31 2008?
Then I guess you were wrong (repeatedly, and insistently) at first and changed your tune later. I guess I missed the post where you finally corrected yourself.
So to be clear, you're saying that you said they'd sell 10M during the period of time from Jan 1 2008 to December 31 2008?
Then I guess you were wrong (repeatedly, and insistently) at first and changed your tune later. I guess I missed the post where you finally corrected yourself.
I wasn't insistently and repeatedly wrong. You just kept thinking I was saying something I wasn't.
Originally Posted by melgross, 01-21-2008, 11:09 PM
The original statement wasn't for 10 million in 2008 only, it was total for sometime in 2008, including 2007.
You're telling me that "total for sometime in 2008, including 2007" somehow means "they'd sell 10M during the period of time from Jan 1 2008 to December 31 2008"?
Call me crazy, but when you said "total for sometime in 2008, including 2007", I assumed you meant "total for sometime in 2008, including 2007".
(and yeah, there's that ol' 2007 that you insisted you never brought up)
And if you really said back then "they'd sell 10M during the period of time from Jan 1 2008 to December 31 2008" I'd love to see that post.
You're telling me that "total for sometime in 2008, including 2007" somehow means "they'd sell 10M during the period of time from Jan 1 2008 to December 31 2008"?
Call me crazy, but when you said "total for sometime in 2008, including 2007", I assumed you meant "total for sometime in 2008, including 2007".
(and yeah, there's that ol' 2007 that you insisted you never brought up)
And if you really said back then "they'd sell 10M during the period of time from Jan 1 2008 to December 31 2008" I'd love to see that post.
That was earlier on. As I already said, until it was cleared up I did say that. After it was cleared up, I didn't.
That was earlier on. As I already said, until it was cleared up I did say that. After it was cleared up, I didn't.
Now, that's enough, ok?
Thanks for the clarification.
So we finally agree. At that point (well, for the first few months), you were in fact wrong (the posts bear out repeatedly and I'd argue insistently, but feel free to disagree on that). Then later you realized you were wrong (I guess instead of actually admitting you were wrong, you just stopped posting about the subject? correct me if I'm mistaken on that).
Glad we could finally agree that those posts were wrong and put this to rest.
So we finally agree. At that point (well, for the first few months), you were in fact wrong (the posts bear out repeatedly and I'd argue insistently, but feel free to disagree on that). Then later you realized you were wrong (I guess instead of actually admitting you were wrong, you just stopped posting about the subject? correct me if I'm mistaken on that).
Glad we could finally agree that those posts were wrong and put this to rest.
Cheers.
Sigh!
Ok, for the LAST time!
In the beginning, several financial writers said that Apple said that they would sell 10 million phones in the 2008 financial year.
That year begins with the last quarter in the previous calendar year.
Like a lot of other folks, I saw no reason to doubt what they said Apple had said.
Later, once that was cleared up, I saw that it was incorrect, and I agreed that Apple said they would sell 10 million units during the 2008 calendar year.
Some people, such as yourself apparently, and correct me if I'm wrong in that though it seems so from your posts here, have argued also that "in" 2008 doesn't mean the same thing as "by the end of 2008", which is the way I was describing the situation.
The reason why I was saying by the end of rather than in, was because some people were insisting still, that it meant end of June or July, somehow, and a few were still insisting that it mean 12 months from the introduction of the original phone. My argument was with them then.
I was saying that those two terms were the same, which I still do.
Comments
What are you talking about? Oh1 That's was a stupid debate for all of us. and I wasn't wrong about it either.
So you weren't one of the ones insisting it was 10M by the end of 2008, despite the fact that Apple said IN on many occasions? Then sorry, I must have been thinking of someone else.
And your numbers are so far off as to be unreasonable. Yu haven't addressed that, have you? Why?
They're not my numbers, I just passed along what the sources reported.
So you weren't one of the ones insisting it was 10M by the end of 2008, despite the fact that Apple said IN on many occasions? Then sorry, I must have been thinking of someone else.
What I said at the time was that "in" and "by the end" of is saying the same thing.
December 30th is "in". So is June 23rd.
I wasn't commenting on "when" the "in" would take place.
They're not my numbers, I just passed along what the sources reported.
You didn't actually report "numbers". They gave one number, the same one we all saw. It's the meaning of the rest of the sentence we're disagreeing about.
and I wasn't wrong about it either.
Sorry, I just went back and checked, and you were one of those insisting they meant 10M by the end of 2008 when they repeatedly said IN 2008. And apple repeatedly clarified it. And apple ended up selling 10M IN 2008, just as they said they would, meaning they sold the first 10M well before the end of the year and ended the year with well more than 10M.
It was bad enough you dragged out that stupid argument, but at this point it's just sad that you don't have the class to be man enough to admit you were wrong.
What I said at the time was that "in" and "by the end" of is saying the same thing.
December 30th is "in". So is June 23rd.
I wasn't commenting on "when" the "in" would take place.
Yep, that's what you said. And it turned out that your interpretation was wrong, they meant 10M during the course of the year, and they exceeded that. Why is it so hard for you to admit you were wrong on that one?
Sorry, I just went back and checked, and you were one of those insisting they meant 10M by the end of 2008 when they repeatedly said IN 2008. And apple repeatedly clarified it. And apple ended up selling 10M IN 2008, just as they said they would, meaning they sold the first 10M well before the end of the year and ended the year with well more than 10M.
It was bad enough you dragged out that stupid argument, but at this point it's just sad that you don't have the class to be man enough to admit you were wrong.
I didn't drag it out, you did.
But you have problems understanding English, or you would understand what I meant, and why they are the same.
I didn't drag it out, you did.
But you have problems understanding English, or you would understand what I meant, and why they are the same.
You are saying that selling 10M during calendar year 2008 is the same as selling 10M total including 2007 sales by some point in 2008?
You are saying that selling 10M during calendar year 2008 is the same as selling 10M total including 2007 sales by some point in 2008?
We all got into that confused argument. At times it was thought that Apple was saying fiscal year, then calendar year. That's what caused the argument in the first place.
Those who were thinking (I was one of them for a while) fiscal year, were thinking end of September. The rest were thinking end of December.
Then some were thinking July, as in 12 months after the introduction.
It was all very confusing, and unnecessary. Why bring it up again?
This new argument should be cleared up shortly.
We all got into that confused argument. At times it was thought that Apple was saying fiscal year, then calendar year. That's what caused the argument in the first place.
Those who were thinking (I was one of them for a while) fiscal year, were thinking end of September. The rest were thinking end of December.
Then some were thinking July, as in 12 months after the introduction.
It was all very confusing, and unnecessary. Why bring it up again?
This new argument should be cleared up shortly.
Apple said "10M in 2008" every time they commented on it. People like you insisted that "10M in 2008" meant something other than "10M in 2008". They never said fiscal year, and when they were asked to clarify, they did say calendar year.
It's not clear from your post, are you finally admitting that you were wrong or not?
Apple said "10M in 2008" every time they commented on it. People like you insisted that "10M in 2008" meant something other than "10M in 2008". They never said fiscal year, and when they were asked to clarify, they did say calendar year.
It's not clear from your post, are you finally admitting that you were wrong or not?
Man, can't you read something, and understand it, even though you're not happy about it?
Why can't you understand that "in" 2008 MEANS "by the end of 2008", and visa versa?
I didn't say "at the end of 2008". That would indicate that it MUST be at the end.
You're actually trying to not understand this!
When someone says to you that something is "less than 10", do you understand that it means 9.9 as well as 6?
http://apple20.blogs.fortune.cnn.com...-by-nearly-30/
But as Piper Jaffray analyst Gene Munster points out in a report to clients Wednesday, Apple did clear up one nagging ambiguity: does the company?s oft-stated goal of selling 10 million iPhones in 2008 mean that it hopes to sell 10 million phones within this calender year, or 10 million phones between June 29, 2007 and Dec. 31, 2008? It?s a question often argued in heated words in the comment threads of Apple blogs (including this one). ?We confirmed with Apple,? writes Munster, ?that the goal is to sell 10m iPhones ?in CY08′ alone.?
Why can't you understand that "in" 2008 MEANS "by the end of 2008", and visa versa?
Because that's not what it means. Why can't you understand that "in 2008" means "in 2008"?
Just listen to what you are saying - that somehow "in 2008" means "in 2008 plus the end of 2007"? Seriously?
I didn't say "at the end of 2008". That would indicate that it MUST be at the end.
And I didn't say you said that. I understand what you said. And it has been made clear many times that it is wrong. I'm actually pretty dumbfounded that you're still clinging to the hope that you might be right after so much time and so many clarifications.
You're actually trying to not understand this!
Sorry, but you are in no position to lecture me.
Because that's not what it means. Why can't you understand that "in 2008" means "in 2008"?
Just listen to what you are saying - that somehow "in 2008" means "in 2008 plus the end of 2007"? Seriously?
I'm not talking about 2007, you are!
I'm talking about in 2008, by the end of 2008. You keep bringing up 2007.
And I didn't say you said that. I understand what you said. And it has been made clear many times that it is wrong. I'm actually pretty dumbfounded that you're still clinging to the hope that you might be right after so much time and so many clarifications.
Because you keep confusing what you THINK I said with what I keep saying.
Sorry, but you are in no position to lecture me.
You should be sorry, because you keep confusing things.
I'm talking about in 2008, by the end of 2008. You keep bringing up 2007.
You're saying that you said they'd sell 10M during the period of time from Jan 1 2008 to December 31 2008?
Or you're saying they'd sell 10M during the period of time from when they started selling mid 2007 and the end of 2008?
(you had been insisting on the latter, have you changed your mind since then?)
Or in other words, do you agree with this statement or not:
“We confirmed with Apple,” writes Munster, “that the goal is to sell 10m iPhones ‘in CY08′ alone.”
You're saying that you said they'd sell 10M during the period of time from Jan 1 2008 to December 31 2008?
Or you're saying they'd sell 10M during the period of time from when they started selling mid 2007 and the end of 2008?
(you had been insisting on the latter, have you changed your mind since then?)
The only time I said late 2007 to sometime in 2008 was in the very beginning of the debate when it wasn't clear that Apple wasn't talking about fiscal year as had been written as attributed to them by some financial writers. After that, no.
Or in other words, do you agree with this statement or not:
?We confirmed with Apple,? writes Munster, ?that the goal is to sell 10m iPhones ?in CY08′ alone.?
I see you do the same thing I sometimes do.
Yes, I agree with that.
Then I guess you were wrong (repeatedly, and insistently) at first and changed your tune later. I guess I missed the post where you finally corrected yourself.
So to be clear, you're saying that you said they'd sell 10M during the period of time from Jan 1 2008 to December 31 2008?
Then I guess you were wrong (repeatedly, and insistently) at first and changed your tune later. I guess I missed the post where you finally corrected yourself.
I wasn't insistently and repeatedly wrong. You just kept thinking I was saying something I wasn't.
I wasn't insistently and repeatedly wrong. You just kept thinking I was saying something I wasn't.
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...8&postcount=17
The original statement wasn't for 10 million in 2008 only, it was total for sometime in 2008, including 2007.
You're telling me that "total for sometime in 2008, including 2007" somehow means "they'd sell 10M during the period of time from Jan 1 2008 to December 31 2008"?
Call me crazy, but when you said "total for sometime in 2008, including 2007", I assumed you meant "total for sometime in 2008, including 2007".
(and yeah, there's that ol' 2007 that you insisted you never brought up)
And if you really said back then "they'd sell 10M during the period of time from Jan 1 2008 to December 31 2008" I'd love to see that post.
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...8&postcount=17
You're telling me that "total for sometime in 2008, including 2007" somehow means "they'd sell 10M during the period of time from Jan 1 2008 to December 31 2008"?
Call me crazy, but when you said "total for sometime in 2008, including 2007", I assumed you meant "total for sometime in 2008, including 2007".
(and yeah, there's that ol' 2007 that you insisted you never brought up)
And if you really said back then "they'd sell 10M during the period of time from Jan 1 2008 to December 31 2008" I'd love to see that post.
That was earlier on. As I already said, until it was cleared up I did say that. After it was cleared up, I didn't.
Now, that's enough, ok?
That was earlier on. As I already said, until it was cleared up I did say that. After it was cleared up, I didn't.
Now, that's enough, ok?
Thanks for the clarification.
So we finally agree. At that point (well, for the first few months), you were in fact wrong (the posts bear out repeatedly and I'd argue insistently, but feel free to disagree on that). Then later you realized you were wrong (I guess instead of actually admitting you were wrong, you just stopped posting about the subject? correct me if I'm mistaken on that).
Glad we could finally agree that those posts were wrong and put this to rest.
Cheers.
Thanks for the clarification.
So we finally agree. At that point (well, for the first few months), you were in fact wrong (the posts bear out repeatedly and I'd argue insistently, but feel free to disagree on that). Then later you realized you were wrong (I guess instead of actually admitting you were wrong, you just stopped posting about the subject? correct me if I'm mistaken on that).
Glad we could finally agree that those posts were wrong and put this to rest.
Cheers.
Sigh!
Ok, for the LAST time!
In the beginning, several financial writers said that Apple said that they would sell 10 million phones in the 2008 financial year.
That year begins with the last quarter in the previous calendar year.
Like a lot of other folks, I saw no reason to doubt what they said Apple had said.
Later, once that was cleared up, I saw that it was incorrect, and I agreed that Apple said they would sell 10 million units during the 2008 calendar year.
Some people, such as yourself apparently, and correct me if I'm wrong in that though it seems so from your posts here, have argued also that "in" 2008 doesn't mean the same thing as "by the end of 2008", which is the way I was describing the situation.
The reason why I was saying by the end of rather than in, was because some people were insisting still, that it meant end of June or July, somehow, and a few were still insisting that it mean 12 months from the introduction of the original phone. My argument was with them then.
I was saying that those two terms were the same, which I still do.