Apple's Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard to retail for $29 in September

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  • Reply 61 of 124
    tbelltbell Posts: 3,146member
    I do not get the whole Blue Ray support thing. First, have you ever read the Blue Ray support terms? Blue Ray is designed to greatly tighten content holders control over content. It requires hardware companies like Apple and software companies like Microsoft to lock down their products in a way that causes significant performance hits. Here is a semi good article on the topic.



    Second, in today's tough economic times adding Blue Ray increases the cost of ownership just when Apple needs to lower cost. Third, there are third party options if you have to have Blue Ray.



    Apple obviously was an early member of the Blue Ray camp. It isn't adding it because on balance it doesn't make sense to add it yet.



    Fourth, Apple demonstrated today that is listens to customers. It brought Firewire back to it's entire line.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by webraider View Post


    Nope.. For the first time in my life I will not be buying an OS from Apple, nor will my next hardware purchase be an Apple until the have Full BluRay support. I mean Full. The pro apps getter be able to author BluRay, I better be able to play it and iDVD better have that functioning added too. To have to boot into Windows to run a BluRay is absolutely Pathetic Apple. It's very possible my next machine will be a PC. At least MS tries to support STANDARD technologies.



  • Reply 62 of 124
    chris_cachris_ca Posts: 2,543member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by a_greer View Post


    They didnt mention a price to upgrade from Tiger, so will Tiger users on the early Macbooks be able to upgrade for $29?



    No.

    "Mac OS X version 10.6 Snow Leopard will be available as an upgrade to Mac OS X version 10.5 Leopard "
  • Reply 63 of 124
    minderbinderminderbinder Posts: 1,703member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post


    No.

    "Mac OS X version 10.6 Snow Leopard will be available as an upgrade to Mac OS X version 10.5 Leopard "



    http://www.apple.com/macosx/specs.html



    Upgrading from Mac OS X v10.4 Tiger.

    If your Intel-based Mac is running Mac OS X v10.4 Tiger, purchase the Mac Box Set (when available), which is a single, affordable package that includes Mac OS X v10.6 Snow Leopard; iLife ?09, with the latest versions of iPhoto, iMovie, GarageBand, iWeb, and iDVD; and iWork ?09, Apple?s productivity suite for home and office including Pages, Numbers, and Keynote.
  • Reply 64 of 124
    benroethigbenroethig Posts: 2,782member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post


    Playing blu-ray disks? Is that really so hard to figure out?



    And it's a particularly important feature for people who are actually trying to author blu-ray disks...most of whom have probably already switched to PC.



    I know of several video production customers who have had to move away from Apple for just this reason. They had to either buy a PC or lose the customer to someone who offered Blu-Ray. Digital videos are the future, but the DRM and hardware situation there isn't any better than Blu-Ray.
  • Reply 65 of 124
    So is ZFS going to come onto the desktop client version of Snow Leopard? That's the only feature I want from Snow Leopard really. ZFS root for Snow Leopard with L2ARC caching with a cluster of USB flash drives would rock the world for Mac users.
  • Reply 66 of 124
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,431member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by taoshen1983 View Post


    So is ZFS going to come onto the desktop client version of Snow Leopard? That's the only feature I want from Snow Leopard really. ZFS root for Snow Leopard with L2ARC caching with a cluster of USB flash drives would rock the world for Mac users.



    ZFS support is waaaaaaay down the list of important features IMO. I'd rather have a native iSCSI initiator. Though right now with Sun being acquired by Oracle I think ZFS licensing is in limbo and thus likely pulled from SL until further notice.
  • Reply 67 of 124
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    ZFS support is waaaaaaay down the list of important features IMO. I'd rather have a native iSCSI initiator. Though right now with Sun being acquired by Oracle I think ZFS licensing is in limbo and thus likely pulled from SL until further notice.



    We just have different workloads. For IO heavy workloads I do these days, ZFS on OpenSolaris has given me nearly 10x IO improvements. It would be great to use it on the Macs one day.



    It is interesting that even with Snow Leopard Server, they stopped mentioning ZFS on the website, which is a shame. Oracle is a monster now, controlling both BTRFS for Linux and ZFS for Solaris/OpenSolaris/Hopefully Snow Leopard.



    So, let me ask again, does anyone from Apple know for sure if the Snow Leopard Desktop and Server will come with ZFS?
  • Reply 68 of 124
    karl kuehnkarl kuehn Posts: 756member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JimDreamworx View Post


    I doubt that Exchange Support will be a full Outlook client.



    Considering Entourage is not.



    The Exchange support will be using ActiveSync, so while it is not "full" support (ie: MAPI), it is more than Entourage currently provides. Essentially this is the level of email support that the iPhone 2.2 OS provides, but with better support for contacts, calendar, etc.



    Or seen another way, this is the same level of support that you would get on a WindowsMobile device.
  • Reply 69 of 124
    galleygalley Posts: 971member
    $29 is exactly what I was expecting.
  • Reply 70 of 124
    tiadimundotiadimundo Posts: 153member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by columbus View Post


    What have they added new to Windows 7 that isn't in Vista? I've used the beta of Win 7 and Vista and the only big difference I noticed was the new Taskbar.



    New Taskbar, new window controls (Aero Snap and Aero Peek), full multi touch support, virtual folders (libraries) for user files, complete new network connection ui, complete new ui standard for apps (called "Scenic Ribbon") introduced in new versions of Paint and WordPad (first update since a decade), new font rendering, hardware accelerated 2d graphics API, DirectX 11, GPU acceleration for apps, CPU acceleration for 3D (WARP), unified and centralized notification system (Action Center), a new themes system, out-of-the-box codec support even for .mov files, impressive performance improvements.



    Are you sure you have tested it?



    For me it is clear why Apple has chosen to deliver this next update for a special price: it is more or less just a Service Pack with some new features. But it is a wise move.
  • Reply 71 of 124
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,379moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post


    Boondoggle or not, money is being made selling BD disks, and money is being made authoring BD disks. Just not by people who use macs.



    Just not by people who use Macs and running OS X to be more precise. You can for example do your HD editing in Final Cut, reboot into Windows and author a Blu-Ray disc using some Windows software - you may even be able to author a disc using VMWare or similar and simply burn the image from Toast or in Windows directly.



    For some reason you can't play commercial Blu-Ray movies in VMWare as there is no native support for it in Windows either and 3rd party software doesn't work. But you can still reboot into Windows to watch Blu-Ray movies.



    It's not the best workflow not having native Blu-Ray support in OS X but I guess that's just how it's going to have to be until someone figures out a way to make supporting the format easier.



    Maybe Apple plan to get people adopting SD cards in order that the price drops and then convince movie studios to distribute on those instead of a huge disc. SD already gives you 32GB, has fast transfers, is very compact and is silent. The only problem is that it costs £65 for each of those cards. If it cost £2 like a BD-R, I'd gladly support it over Blu-Ray.



    For one thing, it would be so much easier to give demo HD footage to a client without the slow disc authoring and burning.
  • Reply 72 of 124
    rasmooserasmoose Posts: 20member
    But where is the full Hybrid SLi support? I find it old-fashioned that I still have to enable the faster GFX manually on my otherwise beloved unibody MBP.
  • Reply 73 of 124
    minderbinderminderbinder Posts: 1,703member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    Just not by people who use Macs and running OS X to be more precise. You can for example do your HD editing in Final Cut, reboot into Windows and author a Blu-Ray disc using some Windows software - you may even be able to author a disc using VMWare or similar and simply burn the image from Toast or in Windows directly.



    You're absolutely right. But that's not really a win for Apple, is it?
  • Reply 74 of 124
    pg4gpg4g Posts: 383member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TiAdiMundo View Post


    New Taskbar, new window controls (Aero Snap and Aero Peek), full multi touch support, virtual folders (libraries) for user files, complete new network connection ui, complete new ui standard for apps (called "Scenic Ribbon") introduced in new versions of Paint and WordPad (first update since a decade), new font rendering, hardware accelerated 2d graphics API, DirectX 11, GPU acceleration for apps, CPU acceleration for 3D (WARP), unified and centralized notification system (Action Center), a new themes system, out-of-the-box codec support even for .mov files, impressive performance improvements.



    Are you sure you have tested it?



    For me it is clear why Apple has chosen to deliver this next update for a special price: it is more or less just a Service Pack with some new features. But it is a wise move.



    Do service packs have a complete overhaul of multithreading, a complete move to 64bit, a completely new language specification that runs GPUs as CPUs, etc?



    Maybe WIndows 7 is a good overhaul graphically and layout wise, but it seems mighty lacking in core changes. Almost everything is to improve the perceived "horribleness" of Vista.
  • Reply 75 of 124
    bruce youngbruce young Posts: 188member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lfmorrison View Post


    By this it appears that you're concerned that you won't be able to use your G4 or G5 based Mac anymore come September when Snow Leopard is released.



    Rest assured, those computers will not magically stop working on that day. (On the other hand, my G5 iMac died several months ago, apparently due to exploding capacitors, but that's another story...) And all the same apps that ran on them before will still run on them after.



    If you're concerned about the end of security support, your fears are also unfounded. Note that Apple is still actively releasing security updates for Tiger.



    If you're just concerned about the fact that new OSes are not being released for PowerPC-based Macs, well, all I can say is, this shouldn't be coming as a surprise: We've heard for quite some time now that the Snow Leopard betas would only run on Intel-based systems.



    Ditto with my iMac G5, which stopped working shortly after its 3-year AppleCare extended warranty expired.

    (What I want to know - how does the computer know that it's {contraction for "it is" } time to kick the bucket only after its warranty expires??)



    At least at this point, any new Mac I get will have or be able to get the Snow Leopard, which sounds like a big performance improvement over Leopard.
  • Reply 76 of 124
    bruce youngbruce young Posts: 188member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hattig View Post


    My iBook G4 with Tiger is 4 years old. It would have been nice to get Snow Leopard for it, but I can understand why it won't be available, given that the PowerPC part of the market must be around 10% or less now, and many of them will be looking to upgrade in the near future anyway. It might be worse for PowerMac owners, who might have bought for longevity.



    Instead I will look at buying a new Mac come 10.6.2, but what shall I get?! Let's see how the money situation is in January.



    Are there any reliable surveys out there which compare the Mac processor installed-base user share?

    --> G3 / G4 / G5 / Intel Core 2 Duo (C2D)
  • Reply 77 of 124
    bruce youngbruce young Posts: 188member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by a_greer View Post


    They didnt mention a price to upgrade from Tiger, so will Tiger users on the early Macbooks be able to upgrade for $29? or will there just be no upgrade option, maybe requier an archive and install?



    That said, I would rather get this next week and the new iphone in 4 months



    The Apple Snow Leopard page states, somewhat cryptically (IMO):


    http://www.apple.com/macosx/specs.html

    Upgrading from Mac OS X v10.5 Leopard.

    - If your Intel-based Mac is running Mac OS X v10.5 Leopard, just purchase Mac OS X v10.6 Snow Leopard when it’s available and follow the simple installation instructions.



    Upgrading from Mac OS X v10.4 Tiger.

    - If your Intel-based Mac is running Mac OS X v10.4 Tiger, purchase the Mac Box Set (when available), which is a single, affordable package that includes Mac OS X v10.6 Snow Leopard; iLife ’09, ... and iWork ’09

    It makes it sound like the $29 Snow Leopard on-the-shelf retail box will be an Upgrade-Only installation. With no provision for a Snow Leopard full-install box release -- except for the bundle with iLife, iWork.

    At the current Apple store list price of $169, it's a good value if you need all 3 products, but not so good if you only want to get Snow Leopard OS for a Tiger equipped Mac-Intel.
  • Reply 78 of 124
    tiadimundotiadimundo Posts: 153member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by PG4G View Post


    Do service packs have a complete overhaul of multithreading, a complete move to 64bit, a completely new language specification that runs GPUs as CPUs, etc?



    Maybe WIndows 7 is a good overhaul graphically and layout wise, but it seems mighty lacking in core changes. Almost everything is to improve the perceived "horribleness" of Vista.



    Vista SP1 had a new kernel and Windows 7 also will have a new one. I said it is more or less a Service Pack with a few new features. What "horribleness" you mean? Any examples? Or you mean horrible Vista marketing?
  • Reply 79 of 124
    charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,217member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mrk View Post


    Anyone care to speculate how the $49 family pack will cope with a "mixed" household? I have 3 machines to update - 2 from Leopard, 1 from Tiger. Would be nice if I only had to buy 1 pack to upgrade them all.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DayLight View Post


    can you use the upgrade snow leopard in a clean install or do you have to have leopard preinstalled everytime ?



    from what I can tell, the 'upgrades' require you to have Leopard on the machine so if you have Tiger you must get the full version.
  • Reply 80 of 124
    columbuscolumbus Posts: 282member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TiAdiMundo View Post


    New Taskbar, new window controls (Aero Snap and Aero Peek), full multi touch support, virtual folders (libraries) for user files, complete new network connection ui, complete new ui standard for apps (called "Scenic Ribbon") introduced in new versions of Paint and WordPad (first update since a decade), new font rendering, hardware accelerated 2d graphics API, DirectX 11, GPU acceleration for apps, CPU acceleration for 3D (WARP), unified and centralized notification system (Action Center), a new themes system, out-of-the-box codec support even for .mov files, impressive performance improvements.



    Are you sure you have tested it?



    For me it is clear why Apple has chosen to deliver this next update for a special price: it is more or less just a Service Pack with some new features. But it is a wise move.



    Yes I have tested it, although not the multi-touch features as I don't have the hardware.



    That is one of the ares that I think looks exciting, along with the cleaned up task bar and window features.



    But your analysis is way out: Things like the updates to Wordpad and Paint - well these are long overdue, considering the subtle refinements and updates Apple has made to all their bundled applications during the lifetime of OS X.



    Here's a feature list for Snow Leopard (and Apple is not really talking up user facing features):

    - New Dock with Exposé and updated contextual menus

    - Updated Exposé window management (spring loaded, minimised windows show in exposé)

    - Live icon manipulation and preview, icon zoom

    - QuickLook in open/save dialogs

    - Updated Preview with annotations

    - The new stacks concept (added in Leopard) now allows for navigation

    - Create your own system wide services (Windows has no such concept) which are now displayed contextually

    - System wide auto-correct, text substitutions and data dectectors

    - Thesaurus

    - Built in screen recording

    - Built in video editing in QuickTime and sharing with Quicktime

    - Many accessibility improvements (braille device support, web spots, voiceover trackpad control)



    That's ignoring the faster startups, faster shutdowns, smaller footprint etc.



    The idea that Windows 7 makes Snow Leopard look like a service pack is laughable. All Snow Leopard makes Windows 7 look like is bad value for money.



    Overall that list above isn't really that impressive as many features were in Leopard and earlier versions of Mac OS X.

    New Taskbar = Exposé Dock (SL)

    New Window Controls = Exposé enhancements (SL)

    virtual folders = Smart Folders (L)

    Complete new network connection ui = WiFi siginal strength in WiFi connection UI (SL)

    Complete new ui standard for apps = Standard NS Toolbar

    New versions of Paint and WordPad = New versions of TextEdit, Preview, Mail, iCal, Quicktime Address Book, iChat, Safari (with crash protection) etc.

    hardware accelerated 2d graphics = Quartz Extreme

    GPU acceleration for apps = Open CL



    Edit: Not to mention Apple will be including all new and updated developer tools with Snow Leopard, whereas Microsoft will be charging up to many hundreds of dollars for their equivalents (apart from the Express editions).



    Edit again: Exchange, I didn't mention Exchange support, something which Windows 7 certainly won't support out the box.
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