No release date or details 4 months after the announcement. Might happen but currently vapor.
Onkyo HD805 coming
A Toshiba rebadge with tweaks.
Liteon will be making a player and OEM bare mechanisms
Oddly...not on the market yet after a year. LiteOn stopped making set top DVD players so don't bank on this one appearing.
Samsung BD-UP5000
Combo that isn't on the market yet.
LG BH100
Hey you found one...a combo drive.
Suggest you take the same advice. Other than combo players it seems Toshiba is still kinda lonely. CE companies aren't beating down their door to build HD-DVD players. Especially given they've been trashing the price.
Vinea
Besides the point, most of those listed aren't even official, they're just rumours, the only thing I believe has been annouced official by the companies are the Samsung and the LG players which are both combo players so in a way they could benefit Blu-ray too...The Venturer has been on the web for so many months but we've never heard any official annoucement about it, the same thing with Onkyo, besides its a re-badged Toshiba and we don't even know if it will ever come out....
The LG player isn't even up to the specs of HD DVD...HD DVD people always complain the Blu-ray is not complete but they are willing to endorse an LG product which doesn't even have the HD DVD logo on it because it is an incomplete....
Blue Ray HDDVD, Blue Ray HDDVD... Who cares. By the time the dust settles on this physical media, iTunes will have HiDef content. I don't know 1 person who bothers to rent/buy these new format discs and almost half of these peopel have PS3, XBOX 360 , etc. units.
Blue Ray HDDVD, Blue Ray HDDVD... Who cares. By the time the dust settles on this physical media, iTunes will have HiDef content. I don't know 1 person who bothers to rent/buy these new format discs and almost half of these peopel have PS3, XBOX 360 , etc. units.
Dude it will be a while before download services replace optical media...
Blue Ray HDDVD, Blue Ray HDDVD... Who cares. By the time the dust settles on this physical media, iTunes will have HiDef content. I don't know 1 person who bothers to rent/buy these new format discs and almost half of these peopel have PS3, XBOX 360 , etc. units.
It's actually uphill battle for all against SD-DVD. You're definitely right about HiDef formats, though, with current status. The market is so small, not many cares at this point, however how quickly would download movie services to catch on?... You would need at least 3.0 mbps download speed to stream contents with little buffering, but most homes in the states can't even get faster than 1.5 mbps connections even when willing to pay extra. It takes time to setup the infrastructure for such services and also lower service prices to help it adopt for masses.
Anyway, many still prefers tangible optical discs over the virtually downloadable contents, at least I would like have the disc sets for my favorite collections.
No release date or details 4 months after the announcement. Might happen but currently vapor.
A Toshiba rebadge with tweaks.
Oddly...not on the market yet after a year. LiteOn stopped making set top DVD players so don't bank on this one appearing.
Combo that isn't on the market yet.
Hey you found one...a combo drive.
Suggest you take the same advice. Other than combo players it seems Toshiba is still kinda lonely. CE companies aren't beating down their door to build HD-DVD players. Especially given they've been trashing the price.
Vinea
Vinea you're recreating the rules as we go. The orginal comment was "no other company wants to make standalone players for HD DVD" full stop
Clearly if I am able to fine forthcoming players rather easily then this would seem to refute quite nicely the assertion that "no one wants to make HD DVD players" the only one that brought out vapor claims is you which is ancillary to the original statement and rebuttal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe
No? but you IMPLIED as much.
Implications are subject to the whimsy of individual perception.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe
5 mins to debunk eh? are any of those IN SHOPS NOW? you have been pushing the coming soon wagon for the last 6 months, but where are they?
There ARE BD players (and recorders) from other manufacturers avalible NOW which nobody can deny, which nobody can deny (etc.) but we are all still waiting on HD-DVD players for manufacturers OTHER than Toshiba until they arrive, many would say HD-DVD is a proprietary format.
Incidentally I thought you would have been all over the fact that the Toshiba proprietary format HD-DVD is now shipping an HD-DVD-R recorder in one of its laptops AT LAST good for them I say.
DAMN missed the post from vinea
Duly note that I did in fact quote the part of his post that I took issue with lest there be any "implication" that I disagreed with his whole post. The statement he made was purely false and it is irrelevant that said existing and forthcoming product are rebadges, or vapor etc. That's skirting the truth which is "there are plans for HD DVD players that have been developed far enough to assign model numbers".
Besides the point, most of those listed aren't even official, they're just rumours, the only thing I believe has been annouced official by the companies are the Samsung and the LG players which are both combo players so in a way they could benefit Blu-ray too...The Venturer has been on the web for so many months but we've never heard any official annoucement about it, the same thing with Onkyo, besides its a re-badged Toshiba and we don't even know if it will ever come out....
The LG player isn't even up to the specs of HD DVD...HD DVD people always complain the Blu-ray is not complete but they are willing to endorse an LG product which doesn't even have the HD DVD logo on it because it is an incomplete....
Perhaps but that doesn't absolve you from your statement which was tantamount to "no one but Toshiba is interested in making players" When faced with incontrovertible proof to the contrary you begin to go off on other tangents. Your statement was false and even you now admit that there are indeed "rumors" of other players that you failed to mention in your statement
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adjei
no other company wants to make standalone players for HD DVD
That's a pretty absolute statement. Which makes your followup quite paradoxical.
It's actually uphill battle for all against SD-DVD. You're definitely right about HiDef formats, though, with current status. The market is so small, not many cares at this point, however how quickly would download movie services to catch on?... You would need at least 3.0 mbps download speed to stream contents with little buffering, but most homes in the states can't even get faster than 1.5 mbps connections even when willing to pay extra. It takes time to setup the infrastructure for such services and also lower service prices to help it adopt for masses.
Anyway, many still prefers tangible optical discs over the virtually downloadable contents, at least I would like have the disc sets for my favorite collections.
Maybe i'm lucky living in California, but in the cities I have lived in/visited here, I have always seen at least 3mbps. DSL (3 or 6mbps), Comcast (6 or 8mbps), and there are even local fiber companies (Surewest) which offers between 10 and 50mbps. But in reality, speed isn't as big of an issue, unless were talking on-demand HD. If I could start a download Thursday, and it would be done Saturday, i'm happy (and so would most people).
For a 10GB movie, which for a 720p flik, thats pretty much the point of diminising returns for these codecs...12mbps. Hell, we could probably get down to 10mbps or even 8mbps for smaller file sizes, but lets just go full force here:
1.5mbps - 15 Hours 27min (low end DSL)
3.0mbps - 7 Hours 57min (mid DSL)
6.0mbps - 3 Hours 58 min (best DSL/low end Cable)
8.0mbps - 2 Hours 58 min (mid Cable)
16.0mbps - 1 Hour 29 min (best Cable/mid FIOS)
20mbps - 1 Hour 11 min (best FIOS)
50mpbs - 28 min (best Surewest)
Even the crappiest of DSL takes less than a day. Mid DSL and better you could run over night, and it would be done in the morning.
Apple needs to get in the game, the technology is there. Seeing as how the current AppleTV can only do 720p up to 5mbps, we are talking only 4.2GB for a 2 hour movie. So cut all those times in half, and thats what Apple could get away with with the current gen AppleTV.
It actually has better specs than the Denon with BD Profile. Samsung seems to be profile 2.0 compliant where the Denon is only profile 1.1 complaint based on limited information available.
At least the good news is that BD-UP5000 Duo player will retail at $1049 which would be almost half the price of Denon. I think both denon and Samsung will have similar video processing capablities..... Realta vs. Reon, which is basically the same processor with Reon having less programablity.
Vinea you're recreating the rules as we go. The orginal comment was "no other company wants to make standalone players for HD DVD" full stop
Clearly if I am able to fine forthcoming players rather easily then this would seem to refute quite nicely the assertion that "no one wants to make HD DVD players" the only one that brought out vapor claims is you which is ancillary to the original statement and rebuttal.
Implications are subject to the whimsy of individual perception.
Duly note that I did in fact quote the part of his post that I took issue with lest there be any "implication" that I disagreed with his whole post. The statement he made was purely false and it is irrelevant that said existing and forthcoming product are rebadges, or vapor etc. That's skirting the truth which is "there are plans for HD DVD players that have been developed far enough to assign model numbers".
There are plans to make a time machine, companies WANT to make them.
Seem likely? NOPE! but by your reckoning they are just 6 months away
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison
Vinea you're recreating the rules as we go.
pot / kettle ? kinda odd for YOU to throw that particular comment out to ANYONE, still I guess when you have so much practice with it, you just see it everywhere you look.
Re Implications
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison
Both formats are dropping their drawers. Blu-ray has a lead in media sales but how many sales have they had to do to get here? How many "Buy 1 disc get xxx" have they had? Enough that I look at a certain percentage of their media sales suspectly as they've done a fair share of giving away titles that count in Videoscan results.
You, the champion of the Tosh 5 disc giveaway, seem to be saying there is something shady and underhand about it when they are BD discs and players. it seems that for you the proprietary HD-DVD format free disc giveaway is good, while Blu-ray giveaways are EVIL.. is that the smell of FUD from what you type? I think so.
But the free discs don't count as sales, so why get your drawers in a twist? because you get to spread FUD? hell yeah.
Try this
No other company HAS produced an HD-DVD player. you might reply with "YET" however, just because a company SAYS it will do something, it matters not one jot to joe public, until they can actually pick up a unit, so in effect, until it hits the shelves it doesnt count.
Maybe i'm lucky living in California, but in the cities I have lived in/visited here, I have always seen at least 3mbps. DSL (3 or 6mbps), Comcast (6 or 8mbps), and there are even local fiber companies (Surewest) which offers between 10 and 50mbps. But in reality, speed isn't as big of an issue, unless were talking on-demand HD. If I could start a download Thursday, and it would be done Saturday, i'm happy (and so would most people).
For a 10GB movie, which for a 720p flik, thats pretty much the point of diminising returns for these codecs...12mbps. Hell, we could probably get down to 10mbps or even 8mbps for smaller file sizes, but lets just go full force here:
1.5mbps - 15 Hours 27min (low end DSL)
3.0mbps - 7 Hours 57min (mid DSL)
6.0mbps - 3 Hours 58 min (best DSL/low end Cable)
8.0mbps - 2 Hours 58 min (mid Cable)
16.0mbps - 1 Hour 29 min (best Cable/mid FIOS)
20mbps - 1 Hour 11 min (best FIOS)
50mpbs - 28 min (best Surewest)
Even the crappiest of DSL takes less than a day. Mid DSL and better you could run over night, and it would be done in the morning.
Apple needs to get in the game, the technology is there. Seeing as how the current AppleTV can only do 720p up to 5mbps, we are talking only 4.2GB for a 2 hour movie. So cut all those times in half, and thats what Apple could get away with with the current gen AppleTV.
I think you're lucky to get such choices.... but so am I. I'm in Simi Valley, SoCal and I live close enough to the switch station which allows full 6 mbps dsl. I have a relative living in Orange County and his line is limited to 760 kbps. I'm not sure whether he has available cable services, though. So, I don't think everyone is so lucky to have those listed services. Also, another draw back will be the cost of those services for now. At least in the states.
MGM will be releasing 'Jeepers Creepers 2' for Blu-ray on September 11th, according to The Digital Bits. No specs have been announced at this time. As you may recall, MGM (along with their distributor 20th Century Fox) have been on Blu-ray hiatus since AACS was cracked many months ago. It now appears Fox is ready to get back in the game.
According to the Bits, Fox commented that they will be back soon and "in a big way". The forth quarter will be a huge push by Blu-ray studios, and it appears Fox is getting back in at the right time.
Be afaid HD DVD...be very afraid. The Lion is roaring and the Fox is on the prowl.
There are plans to make a time machine, companies WANT to make them.
Seem likely? NOPE! but by your reckoning they are just 6 months away
pot / kettle ? kinda odd for YOU to throw that particular comment out to ANYONE, still I guess when you have so much practice with it, you just see it everywhere you look.
Re Implications
You, the champion of the Tosh 5 disc giveaway, seem to be saying there is something shady and underhand about it when they are BD discs and players. it seems that for you the proprietary HD-DVD format free disc giveaway is good, while Blu-ray giveaways are EVIL.. is that the smell of FUD from what you type? I think so.
But the free discs don't count as sales, so why get your drawers in a twist? because you get to spread FUD? hell yeah.
Try this
No other company HAS produced an HD-DVD player. you might reply with "YET" however, just because a company SAYS it will do something, it matters not one jot to joe public, until they can actually pick up a unit, so in effect, until it hits the shelves it doesnt count.
Wouldn't it be more prudent to state "no on wants to make HD DVD players right now" then if your statement is somehow meant to be limited by time?
I don't know if I agree with you there re: recreating the rules. I'm we all misintrepret comments at times, I'm not different, but I'll be certain to admit where I have erred. For instance once Kolchak was talking about how much money was being lost on HD DVD players sold at the Home Media Expo or whateva. I thought he meant the general players and thus my tangent was wrong from the start. In this case the fact that a product is or isn't shipping is irrelevant. The statement was absolute. No one is looking at making players...it was quickly debunked and then the "rules" were modified. Now it becomes "no one who can ship a player today with full access is interested in making HD DVD players"
"If you would argue with me, first define your terms" Voltaire.
Now for your next gaffe.
I said
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison
Both formats are dropping their drawers. Blu-ray has a lead in media sales but how many sales have they had to do to get here? How many "Buy 1 disc get xxx" have they had? Enough that I look at a certain percentage of their media sales suspectly as they've done a fair share of giving away titles that count in Videoscan results.
Nowhere do I mention the 5 free discs because I know they're being fulfilled from a 3rd party and not retail stores. I even specifically mentioned the type of sale in the "Buy 1 disc get xxxx" where XXX is a discount off of another movie from store stock. Or what about the Amazon %50 off sale or the 2 for $25 that Fry's has been doing on Blu-ray. For a format that is supposedly CRUSHING HD DVD they seem to have a lot of firesales on Blu-ray media.
Vinea you're recreating the rules as we go. The orginal comment was "no other company wants to make standalone players for HD DVD" full stop
Clearly if I am able to fine forthcoming players rather easily then this would seem to refute quite nicely the assertion that "no one wants to make HD DVD players" the only one that brought out vapor claims is you which is ancillary to the original statement and rebuttal.
Right. That would make you pedantically correct and miss the entire point of lack of CE support for HD-DVD. Meaning no one is really jumping up and down to make standalone HD-DVD players with Toshiba hell bent on pushing the price and profits downwards.
The Chinese will bite...but volumes are still so low at the moment they aren't jumping up and down either since they could be tooling up to make machines for a dead platform or for a home market that doesn't have very high HD penetration yet.
Your only real examples are combo players which are safer from the "we just spent how much to make players no one wants anymore?" syndrome and can charge a premium over Blu-Ray player prices (meaning they can make money).
So really, no other companies want to make HD-DVD players or they WOULD be like multiple manufacturers are making Blu-Ray players.
Why don't they? Because Toshiba is banking on royalties and doesn't care anymore about player profitability. Hard to attract companies at that point.
Blu-ray playback at content native HD resolution of 1080p/1080i/720p and 1080p 24Fs/ 60Fs
HD DVD playback at 1080p/1080i/720p
HQV (Hollywood Quality Video) video selectable up-conversion processing 720p/1080i/1080p
Stereo and 7.1-channel audio outputs
Coaxial and optical digital audio outputs
Dolby Digital Plus, DTS HD, MP3 audio decoding, Dolby TrueHD
HD DVD/BD-ROM/ DVD-ROM, DVD-+/R, DVD-+/RW, CD, CD-R and CD-RW
HDMI 1.3 digital interface (1080p/1080i/720p)
MPEG-2, VC-1, H.264, HD JPEG decoding
12-bit/216 MhZ video D/A converter; 24-bit/192KHz audio D/A converter
HDMI, Component Video, S-Video and Composite video outputs
HDMI CEC (Consumer Electronic Control)
Local Storage
Picture-in-picture
The BD-UP5000 is due out in Q4 of this year with an MSRP of $1,049. Go to www.samsung.com for more.
That means a sub kilobuck price on a fine player. I think it's going to do well. I'd certainly be interested in the player that replaces this which I assume would be roughly $600
So really, no other companies want to make HD-DVD players or they WOULD be like multiple manufacturers are making Blu-Ray players.
Why don't they? Because Toshiba is banking on royalties and doesn't care anymore about player profitability. Hard to attract companies at that point.
Vinea
Yes Vinea and the multiplicity of Blu-ray STB vendors combined don't more players in the market than Toshiba. Think about that...Philips, Samung, Pioneer, Sony, Panasonic all have sold such few players they haven't usurped Toshibas venerable STB lineup.
It's equally hard to attract new vendors to Blu-ray when your players cannot even exceed the quality of a PS3 easily at under $499.
With all the acrimonious posting lately I thought I'd add something on a lighter note. This is from the 7/25/07 Seattle Times.
"NEARLY ALL OF STORE'S BLU-RAY DISCS STOLEN
Seattle police are investigating a burglary at the Northgate Silver Platters store early Sunday in which thieves grabbed about 200 Blu-ray discs with a retail value of more than $7000.
Mike Blatt, Silver Platters vice-president said thieves stole almost all of the store's Blu-ray section."
With all the acrimonious posting lately I thought I'd add something on a lighter note. This is from the 7/25/07 Seattle Times.
"NEARLY ALL OF STORE'S BLU-RAY DISCS STOLEN
Seattle police are investigating a burglary at the Northgate Silver Platters store early Sunday in which thieves grabbed about 200 Blu-ray discs with a retail value of more than $7000.
Mike Blatt, Silver Platters vice-president said thieves stole almost all of the store's Blu-ray section."
I dunno...if HD-DVD can get to $99 players by XMas they have a good shot at winning since I don't think the BD folks would be willing to match that low that quickly. That's one advantage Toshiba has with so few CE supporters. The profits they kill are pretty much only their own.
That sure would make the Chinese happy. The Japanese, not so much.
You can call it a strategy as much as you can call a desert peace ("They make a desert and call it peace" Tacitus).
Vinea
I totally disagree. Players have already come down 50% and it hasn't helped at all. Blu-ray is still winning as much as it was 6 months ago. In other words, it doesn't seem that blu-ray has to cut prices to keep up, now does it? You're proceeding from a false assumption...that both formats must have equal pricing.
Cutting prices too far may actually backfire. The perception may become that HD-DVD is on it's way out. And really...what if that doesn't work? Are they going to cut them down to $49? You reach the point of diminishing returns, or so I would think. I also have to wonder if even Toshiba can continue with lower prices like that. They have deep pockets, but at $99 they can't be making much money, considering that prices were $300-400 6 months ago.
With all the acrimonious posting lately I thought I'd add something on a lighter note. This is from the 7/25/07 Seattle Times.
"NEARLY ALL OF STORE'S BLU-RAY DISCS STOLEN
Seattle police are investigating a burglary at the Northgate Silver Platters store early Sunday in which thieves grabbed about 200 Blu-ray discs with a retail value of more than $7000.
Mike Blatt, Silver Platters vice-president said thieves stole almost all of the store's Blu-ray section."
See, even thieves prefer Blu-ray to HD-DVD.
Now, back to our regularly scheduled bickering.
Yeah I suppose the BDA will count those 200 discs as sales.
Comments
Venturer SHD-7000 coming
No release date or details 4 months after the announcement. Might happen but currently vapor.
Onkyo HD805 coming
A Toshiba rebadge with tweaks.
Liteon will be making a player and OEM bare mechanisms
Oddly...not on the market yet after a year. LiteOn stopped making set top DVD players so don't bank on this one appearing.
Samsung BD-UP5000
Combo that isn't on the market yet.
LG BH100
Hey you found one...a combo drive.
Suggest you take the same advice. Other than combo players it seems Toshiba is still kinda lonely. CE companies aren't beating down their door to build HD-DVD players. Especially given they've been trashing the price.
Vinea
Besides the point, most of those listed aren't even official, they're just rumours, the only thing I believe has been annouced official by the companies are the Samsung and the LG players which are both combo players so in a way they could benefit Blu-ray too...The Venturer has been on the web for so many months but we've never heard any official annoucement about it, the same thing with Onkyo, besides its a re-badged Toshiba and we don't even know if it will ever come out....
The LG player isn't even up to the specs of HD DVD...HD DVD people always complain the Blu-ray is not complete but they are willing to endorse an LG product which doesn't even have the HD DVD logo on it because it is an incomplete....
Blue Ray HDDVD, Blue Ray HDDVD... Who cares. By the time the dust settles on this physical media, iTunes will have HiDef content. I don't know 1 person who bothers to rent/buy these new format discs and almost half of these peopel have PS3, XBOX 360 , etc. units.
Dude it will be a while before download services replace optical media...
Blue Ray HDDVD, Blue Ray HDDVD... Who cares. By the time the dust settles on this physical media, iTunes will have HiDef content. I don't know 1 person who bothers to rent/buy these new format discs and almost half of these peopel have PS3, XBOX 360 , etc. units.
It's actually uphill battle for all against SD-DVD. You're definitely right about HiDef formats, though, with current status. The market is so small, not many cares at this point, however how quickly would download movie services to catch on?... You would need at least 3.0 mbps download speed to stream contents with little buffering, but most homes in the states can't even get faster than 1.5 mbps connections even when willing to pay extra. It takes time to setup the infrastructure for such services and also lower service prices to help it adopt for masses.
Anyway, many still prefers tangible optical discs over the virtually downloadable contents, at least I would like have the disc sets for my favorite collections.
Venturer SHD-7000 coming
No release date or details 4 months after the announcement. Might happen but currently vapor.
A Toshiba rebadge with tweaks.
Oddly...not on the market yet after a year. LiteOn stopped making set top DVD players so don't bank on this one appearing.
Combo that isn't on the market yet.
Hey you found one...a combo drive.
Suggest you take the same advice. Other than combo players it seems Toshiba is still kinda lonely. CE companies aren't beating down their door to build HD-DVD players. Especially given they've been trashing the price.
Vinea
Vinea you're recreating the rules as we go. The orginal comment was "no other company wants to make standalone players for HD DVD" full stop
Clearly if I am able to fine forthcoming players rather easily then this would seem to refute quite nicely the assertion that "no one wants to make HD DVD players" the only one that brought out vapor claims is you which is ancillary to the original statement and rebuttal.
No? but you IMPLIED as much.
Implications are subject to the whimsy of individual perception.
5 mins to debunk eh? are any of those IN SHOPS NOW? you have been pushing the coming soon wagon for the last 6 months, but where are they?
There ARE BD players (and recorders) from other manufacturers avalible NOW which nobody can deny, which nobody can deny (etc.) but we are all still waiting on HD-DVD players for manufacturers OTHER than Toshiba until they arrive, many would say HD-DVD is a proprietary format.
Incidentally I thought you would have been all over the fact that the Toshiba proprietary format HD-DVD is now shipping an HD-DVD-R recorder in one of its laptops AT LAST
DAMN missed the post from vinea
Duly note that I did in fact quote the part of his post that I took issue with lest there be any "implication" that I disagreed with his whole post. The statement he made was purely false and it is irrelevant that said existing and forthcoming product are rebadges, or vapor etc. That's skirting the truth which is "there are plans for HD DVD players that have been developed far enough to assign model numbers".
Besides the point, most of those listed aren't even official, they're just rumours, the only thing I believe has been annouced official by the companies are the Samsung and the LG players which are both combo players so in a way they could benefit Blu-ray too...The Venturer has been on the web for so many months but we've never heard any official annoucement about it, the same thing with Onkyo, besides its a re-badged Toshiba and we don't even know if it will ever come out....
The LG player isn't even up to the specs of HD DVD...HD DVD people always complain the Blu-ray is not complete but they are willing to endorse an LG product which doesn't even have the HD DVD logo on it because it is an incomplete....
Perhaps but that doesn't absolve you from your statement which was tantamount to "no one but Toshiba is interested in making players" When faced with incontrovertible proof to the contrary you begin to go off on other tangents. Your statement was false and even you now admit that there are indeed "rumors" of other players that you failed to mention in your statement
no other company wants to make standalone players for HD DVD
That's a pretty absolute statement. Which makes your followup quite paradoxical.
It's actually uphill battle for all against SD-DVD. You're definitely right about HiDef formats, though, with current status. The market is so small, not many cares at this point, however how quickly would download movie services to catch on?... You would need at least 3.0 mbps download speed to stream contents with little buffering, but most homes in the states can't even get faster than 1.5 mbps connections even when willing to pay extra. It takes time to setup the infrastructure for such services and also lower service prices to help it adopt for masses.
Anyway, many still prefers tangible optical discs over the virtually downloadable contents, at least I would like have the disc sets for my favorite collections.
Maybe i'm lucky living in California, but in the cities I have lived in/visited here, I have always seen at least 3mbps. DSL (3 or 6mbps), Comcast (6 or 8mbps), and there are even local fiber companies (Surewest) which offers between 10 and 50mbps. But in reality, speed isn't as big of an issue, unless were talking on-demand HD. If I could start a download Thursday, and it would be done Saturday, i'm happy (and so would most people).
For a 10GB movie, which for a 720p flik, thats pretty much the point of diminising returns for these codecs...12mbps. Hell, we could probably get down to 10mbps or even 8mbps for smaller file sizes, but lets just go full force here:
1.5mbps - 15 Hours 27min (low end DSL)
3.0mbps - 7 Hours 57min (mid DSL)
6.0mbps - 3 Hours 58 min (best DSL/low end Cable)
8.0mbps - 2 Hours 58 min (mid Cable)
16.0mbps - 1 Hour 29 min (best Cable/mid FIOS)
20mbps - 1 Hour 11 min (best FIOS)
50mpbs - 28 min (best Surewest)
Even the crappiest of DSL takes less than a day. Mid DSL and better you could run over night, and it would be done in the morning.
Apple needs to get in the game, the technology is there. Seeing as how the current AppleTV can only do 720p up to 5mbps, we are talking only 4.2GB for a 2 hour movie. So cut all those times in half, and thats what Apple could get away with with the current gen AppleTV.
http://www.electronichouse.com/artic...d_player/C157/
It actually has better specs than the Denon with BD Profile. Samsung seems to be profile 2.0 compliant where the Denon is only profile 1.1 complaint based on limited information available.
At least the good news is that BD-UP5000 Duo player will retail at $1049 which would be almost half the price of Denon. I think both denon and Samsung will have similar video processing capablities..... Realta vs. Reon, which is basically the same processor with Reon having less programablity.
Vinea you're recreating the rules as we go. The orginal comment was "no other company wants to make standalone players for HD DVD" full stop
Clearly if I am able to fine forthcoming players rather easily then this would seem to refute quite nicely the assertion that "no one wants to make HD DVD players" the only one that brought out vapor claims is you which is ancillary to the original statement and rebuttal.
Implications are subject to the whimsy of individual perception.
Duly note that I did in fact quote the part of his post that I took issue with lest there be any "implication" that I disagreed with his whole post. The statement he made was purely false and it is irrelevant that said existing and forthcoming product are rebadges, or vapor etc. That's skirting the truth which is "there are plans for HD DVD players that have been developed far enough to assign model numbers".
There are plans to make a time machine, companies WANT to make them.
Seem likely? NOPE! but by your reckoning they are just 6 months away
Vinea you're recreating the rules as we go.
pot / kettle ? kinda odd for YOU to throw that particular comment out to ANYONE, still I guess when you have so much practice with it, you just see it everywhere you look.
Re Implications
Both formats are dropping their drawers. Blu-ray has a lead in media sales but how many sales have they had to do to get here? How many "Buy 1 disc get xxx" have they had? Enough that I look at a certain percentage of their media sales suspectly as they've done a fair share of giving away titles that count in Videoscan results.
You, the champion of the Tosh 5 disc giveaway, seem to be saying there is something shady and underhand about it when they are BD discs and players. it seems that for you the proprietary HD-DVD format free disc giveaway is good, while Blu-ray giveaways are EVIL.. is that the smell of FUD from what you type? I think so.
But the free discs don't count as sales, so why get your drawers in a twist? because you get to spread FUD? hell yeah.
Try this
No other company HAS produced an HD-DVD player. you might reply with "YET" however, just because a company SAYS it will do something, it matters not one jot to joe public, until they can actually pick up a unit, so in effect, until it hits the shelves it doesnt count.
Maybe i'm lucky living in California, but in the cities I have lived in/visited here, I have always seen at least 3mbps. DSL (3 or 6mbps), Comcast (6 or 8mbps), and there are even local fiber companies (Surewest) which offers between 10 and 50mbps. But in reality, speed isn't as big of an issue, unless were talking on-demand HD. If I could start a download Thursday, and it would be done Saturday, i'm happy (and so would most people).
For a 10GB movie, which for a 720p flik, thats pretty much the point of diminising returns for these codecs...12mbps. Hell, we could probably get down to 10mbps or even 8mbps for smaller file sizes, but lets just go full force here:
1.5mbps - 15 Hours 27min (low end DSL)
3.0mbps - 7 Hours 57min (mid DSL)
6.0mbps - 3 Hours 58 min (best DSL/low end Cable)
8.0mbps - 2 Hours 58 min (mid Cable)
16.0mbps - 1 Hour 29 min (best Cable/mid FIOS)
20mbps - 1 Hour 11 min (best FIOS)
50mpbs - 28 min (best Surewest)
Even the crappiest of DSL takes less than a day. Mid DSL and better you could run over night, and it would be done in the morning.
Apple needs to get in the game, the technology is there. Seeing as how the current AppleTV can only do 720p up to 5mbps, we are talking only 4.2GB for a 2 hour movie. So cut all those times in half, and thats what Apple could get away with with the current gen AppleTV.
I think you're lucky to get such choices.... but so am I. I'm in Simi Valley, SoCal and I live close enough to the switch station which allows full 6 mbps dsl. I have a relative living in Orange County and his line is limited to 760 kbps. I'm not sure whether he has available cable services, though. So, I don't think everyone is so lucky to have those listed services. Also, another draw back will be the cost of those services for now. At least in the states.
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=347
MGM will be releasing 'Jeepers Creepers 2' for Blu-ray on September 11th, according to The Digital Bits. No specs have been announced at this time. As you may recall, MGM (along with their distributor 20th Century Fox) have been on Blu-ray hiatus since AACS was cracked many months ago. It now appears Fox is ready to get back in the game.
According to the Bits, Fox commented that they will be back soon and "in a big way". The forth quarter will be a huge push by Blu-ray studios, and it appears Fox is getting back in at the right time.
Be afaid HD DVD...be very afraid.
There are plans to make a time machine, companies WANT to make them.
Seem likely? NOPE! but by your reckoning they are just 6 months away
pot / kettle ? kinda odd for YOU to throw that particular comment out to ANYONE, still I guess when you have so much practice with it, you just see it everywhere you look.
Re Implications
You, the champion of the Tosh 5 disc giveaway, seem to be saying there is something shady and underhand about it when they are BD discs and players. it seems that for you the proprietary HD-DVD format free disc giveaway is good, while Blu-ray giveaways are EVIL.. is that the smell of FUD from what you type? I think so.
But the free discs don't count as sales, so why get your drawers in a twist? because you get to spread FUD? hell yeah.
Try this
No other company HAS produced an HD-DVD player. you might reply with "YET" however, just because a company SAYS it will do something, it matters not one jot to joe public, until they can actually pick up a unit, so in effect, until it hits the shelves it doesnt count.
Wouldn't it be more prudent to state "no on wants to make HD DVD players right now" then if your statement is somehow meant to be limited by time?
I don't know if I agree with you there re: recreating the rules. I'm we all misintrepret comments at times, I'm not different, but I'll be certain to admit where I have erred. For instance once Kolchak was talking about how much money was being lost on HD DVD players sold at the Home Media Expo or whateva. I thought he meant the general players and thus my tangent was wrong from the start. In this case the fact that a product is or isn't shipping is irrelevant. The statement was absolute. No one is looking at making players...it was quickly debunked and then the "rules" were modified. Now it becomes "no one who can ship a player today with full access is interested in making HD DVD players"
"If you would argue with me, first define your terms" Voltaire.
Now for your next gaffe.
I said
Both formats are dropping their drawers. Blu-ray has a lead in media sales but how many sales have they had to do to get here? How many "Buy 1 disc get xxx" have they had? Enough that I look at a certain percentage of their media sales suspectly as they've done a fair share of giving away titles that count in Videoscan results.
Nowhere do I mention the 5 free discs because I know they're being fulfilled from a 3rd party and not retail stores. I even specifically mentioned the type of sale in the "Buy 1 disc get xxxx" where XXX is a discount off of another movie from store stock. Or what about the Amazon %50 off sale or the 2 for $25 that Fry's has been doing on Blu-ray. For a format that is supposedly CRUSHING HD DVD they seem to have a lot of firesales on Blu-ray media.
Vinea you're recreating the rules as we go. The orginal comment was "no other company wants to make standalone players for HD DVD" full stop
Clearly if I am able to fine forthcoming players rather easily then this would seem to refute quite nicely the assertion that "no one wants to make HD DVD players" the only one that brought out vapor claims is you which is ancillary to the original statement and rebuttal.
Right. That would make you pedantically correct and miss the entire point of lack of CE support for HD-DVD. Meaning no one is really jumping up and down to make standalone HD-DVD players with Toshiba hell bent on pushing the price and profits downwards.
The Chinese will bite...but volumes are still so low at the moment they aren't jumping up and down either since they could be tooling up to make machines for a dead platform or for a home market that doesn't have very high HD penetration yet.
Your only real examples are combo players which are safer from the "we just spent how much to make players no one wants anymore?" syndrome and can charge a premium over Blu-Ray player prices (meaning they can make money).
So really, no other companies want to make HD-DVD players or they WOULD be like multiple manufacturers are making Blu-Ray players.
Why don't they? Because Toshiba is banking on royalties and doesn't care anymore about player profitability. Hard to attract companies at that point.
Vinea
Here are some other technical goodies:
Blu-ray playback at content native HD resolution of 1080p/1080i/720p and 1080p 24Fs/ 60Fs
HD DVD playback at 1080p/1080i/720p
HQV (Hollywood Quality Video) video selectable up-conversion processing 720p/1080i/1080p
Stereo and 7.1-channel audio outputs
Coaxial and optical digital audio outputs
Dolby Digital Plus, DTS HD, MP3 audio decoding, Dolby TrueHD
HD DVD/BD-ROM/ DVD-ROM, DVD-+/R, DVD-+/RW, CD, CD-R and CD-RW
HDMI 1.3 digital interface (1080p/1080i/720p)
MPEG-2, VC-1, H.264, HD JPEG decoding
12-bit/216 MhZ video D/A converter; 24-bit/192KHz audio D/A converter
HDMI, Component Video, S-Video and Composite video outputs
HDMI CEC (Consumer Electronic Control)
Local Storage
Picture-in-picture
The BD-UP5000 is due out in Q4 of this year with an MSRP of $1,049. Go to www.samsung.com for more.
That means a sub kilobuck price on a fine player. I think it's going to do well. I'd certainly be interested in the player that replaces this which I assume would be roughly $600
So really, no other companies want to make HD-DVD players or they WOULD be like multiple manufacturers are making Blu-Ray players.
Why don't they? Because Toshiba is banking on royalties and doesn't care anymore about player profitability. Hard to attract companies at that point.
Vinea
Yes Vinea and the multiplicity of Blu-ray STB vendors combined don't more players in the market than Toshiba. Think about that...Philips, Samung, Pioneer, Sony, Panasonic all have sold such few players they haven't usurped Toshibas venerable STB lineup.
It's equally hard to attract new vendors to Blu-ray when your players cannot even exceed the quality of a PS3 easily at under $499.
"NEARLY ALL OF STORE'S BLU-RAY DISCS STOLEN
Seattle police are investigating a burglary at the Northgate Silver Platters store early Sunday in which thieves grabbed about 200 Blu-ray discs with a retail value of more than $7000.
Mike Blatt, Silver Platters vice-president said thieves stole almost all of the store's Blu-ray section."
See, even thieves prefer Blu-ray to HD-DVD.
Now, back to our regularly scheduled bickering.
With all the acrimonious posting lately I thought I'd add something on a lighter note. This is from the 7/25/07 Seattle Times.
"NEARLY ALL OF STORE'S BLU-RAY DISCS STOLEN
Seattle police are investigating a burglary at the Northgate Silver Platters store early Sunday in which thieves grabbed about 200 Blu-ray discs with a retail value of more than $7000.
Mike Blatt, Silver Platters vice-president said thieves stole almost all of the store's Blu-ray section."
See, even thieves prefer Blu-ray to HD-DVD.
Now, back to our regularly scheduled bickering.
haha.... that's cute!
Correct and I did not mention that they did.
Yes you did. You talked about media sales. Where do you think we've been getting the media sales data?
I dunno...if HD-DVD can get to $99 players by XMas they have a good shot at winning since I don't think the BD folks would be willing to match that low that quickly. That's one advantage Toshiba has with so few CE supporters. The profits they kill are pretty much only their own.
That sure would make the Chinese happy. The Japanese, not so much.
You can call it a strategy as much as you can call a desert peace ("They make a desert and call it peace" Tacitus).
Vinea
I totally disagree. Players have already come down 50% and it hasn't helped at all. Blu-ray is still winning as much as it was 6 months ago. In other words, it doesn't seem that blu-ray has to cut prices to keep up, now does it? You're proceeding from a false assumption...that both formats must have equal pricing.
Cutting prices too far may actually backfire. The perception may become that HD-DVD is on it's way out. And really...what if that doesn't work? Are they going to cut them down to $49? You reach the point of diminishing returns, or so I would think. I also have to wonder if even Toshiba can continue with lower prices like that. They have deep pockets, but at $99 they can't be making much money, considering that prices were $300-400 6 months ago.
With all the acrimonious posting lately I thought I'd add something on a lighter note. This is from the 7/25/07 Seattle Times.
"NEARLY ALL OF STORE'S BLU-RAY DISCS STOLEN
Seattle police are investigating a burglary at the Northgate Silver Platters store early Sunday in which thieves grabbed about 200 Blu-ray discs with a retail value of more than $7000.
Mike Blatt, Silver Platters vice-president said thieves stole almost all of the store's Blu-ray section."
See, even thieves prefer Blu-ray to HD-DVD.
Now, back to our regularly scheduled bickering.
Yeah I suppose the BDA will count those 200 discs as sales.