Blu-ray vs. HD DVD (2007)

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  • Reply 3281 of 4650
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post


    That's bullshit. Totally. Paramount and Dreamworks did so because they were BOUGHT OFF. Attach rates don't mean shit when the format is selling 2 and 3 to 1 better than the other. Please.



    Got link(legit) for the "BOUGHT OFF" statement? ......



    Hm..... so 2:1 is big enough gap to totally ignore the attach rate?......



    I would agree if the sales ratio was 10+:1..... in a respectable size volume. (500K+ units)
  • Reply 3282 of 4650
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post


    I don't go to that forum or know its posters. But that's harsh.



    Maybe this may help you reconsider.



    http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=15822



    I've not seen anyone so dedicated to Blu-Ray format. The force must be strong.
  • Reply 3283 of 4650
    So apparently today was also the first day of CEDIA. So has there been any news from there? Any big 1st day announcements?



    In the AVSForum.com thread that was linked earlier "CEDIA: Suck it Blu-tards" or whatever the HD-DVD nutcases titled the thread just about predicted everything from M$ selling XBox360's with the HD-DVD attachment and bundled with 20 HD-DVD movies for $50, All Blu-ray exclusive studios dumping Blu-ray for HD-DVD while kicking sony in the nuts as they went out the door, and Toshiba selling 20 million HD-DVD players in the last 2 weeks...so just out of curiosity anything like that happen...



    Really its an honest question...
  • Reply 3284 of 4650
    marzetta7marzetta7 Posts: 1,323member
    Uh-oh HD DVD: Writing on the Wall...



    Report: Sony Says Blu-ray Standalone Players Out-Selling HD DVD



    http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/news...ing_HD_DVD/936



    Quote:

    Although it's the type of news we'd expect to see accompanied by a huge press release, Sony apparently revealed Wednesday that stand-alone Blu-ray players have begun out-selling their HD DVD counterparts.



    As reported by Video Business, the revelation came during Sony's CEDIA press conference, when Sony VP Chris Fawcett said that within the last 12 weeks, Blu-ray players had pulled out ahead of HD DVD.



    According to the Video Business report, Fawcett cited NPD Group research for the data, but declined to declined to provide exact market share percentages of the two sides. Fawcett is said to have attributed the surge as mostly due to the introduction of Sony's $499 player in early June.



    Although Blu-ray has enjoyed a 2-to-1 lead in disc sales over HD DVD since the start of 2007, the HD DVD camp has long attributed Blu-ray's lead to the short term market dominance of the Blu-ray enabled PlayStation 3, while pointing to its decisive lead in standalone player sales as a long term sign of strength in the high-def format war.



    If independent numbers end up confirming this news from Sony, it would certainly seem to be a punch in the gut for HD DVD, especially given the extent to which its backers have emphasized their own lead in this category.



    Needless to say, we'll let you know of any updates in this developing story.



    This has got to hurt!
  • Reply 3285 of 4650
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,431member
    Top selling Amazon DVD player/recorder. Toshiba player is ranked #3 first Blu-ray ranked 17





    Sony is obviously full of shit. If Blu-ray isn't close on Amazon I doubt it's being sold in better numbers at retail where the price differential is the same or often larger.
  • Reply 3286 of 4650
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,431member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bitemymac View Post


    Maybe this may help you reconsider.



    http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=15822



    I've not seen anyone so dedicated to Blu-Ray format. The force must be strong.



    What's it say? Remember if you're not a Blu-ray fanatic with foam frothing from the mouth you're likely banned from blu-rry.com
  • Reply 3287 of 4650
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 18,020member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bitemymac View Post


    Got link(legit) for the "BOUGHT OFF" statement? ......



    Hm..... so 2:1 is big enough gap to totally ignore the attach rate?......



    I would agree if the sales ratio was 10+:1..... in a respectable size volume. (500K+ units)





    1. Stop. You know the figure as well as I. A link....Christ.



    2. Yes.



    3. I like how you just pulled that out of your ass. They're selling twice as many discs, some weeks 3x as many. So the attach rate is bullshit. The other problem with it is that it doesn't take into account rentals from Blockbuster and Netflix, which buy millions of discs. I myself don't buy many movies, for example. But I watch them.
  • Reply 3288 of 4650
    Visuals anyone?...







    Let it seep in Murchy, let it seep in. Another talking point of HD DVD FUDsters going down in flames.
  • Reply 3289 of 4650
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    Top selling Amazon DVD player/recorder. Toshiba player is ranked #3 first Blu-ray ranked 17



    Sony is obviously full of shit. If Blu-ray isn't close on Amazon I doubt it's being sold in better numbers at retail where the price differential is the same or often larger.



    Right...and because Apple has the #4, #5, #7, #8, #10 computers on the Amazon list then Apple should have a huge percentage of the PC market. And the Nokia N800 Internet Tablet PC is a national best seller.



    And oh look...the Apple iMac is the Amazon #1 (20") and #2 (24") best selling desktops! That must mean that the tower market is dead and AIOs reign supreme.



    You can't tell butkus from Amazon rankings except maybe the relative popularity of the different Macs in comparison to each other (i.e. MacBook vs MBP).



    What are you going to do when/if Sony's numbers are verified by a 3rd party?
  • Reply 3290 of 4650
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by suppaibeg View Post


    So apparently today was also the first day of CEDIA. So has there been any news from there? Any big 1st day announcements?



    In the AVSForum.com thread that was linked earlier "CEDIA: Suck it Blu-tards" or whatever the HD-DVD nutcases titled the thread just about predicted everything from M$ selling XBox360's with the HD-DVD attachment and bundled with 20 HD-DVD movies for $50, All Blu-ray exclusive studios dumping Blu-ray for HD-DVD while kicking sony in the nuts as they went out the door, and Toshiba selling 20 million HD-DVD players in the last 2 weeks...so just out of curiosity anything like that happen...



    Really its an honest question...



    LOL! Well, to give you some news...



    CEDIA: Sony Introduces Two New Blu-ray Players



    http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/news...ay_Players/934



    Quote:

    Sony has unveiled two new Blu-ray players for the US market -- the BDP-S500 ($700), and the brand new BDP-S2000ES ($1,300).



    Although the BDP-S500 was first introduced last week for the European market at Berlin's IFA trade fair, today's announcement confirms a US release for the mid-range player, and introduces a new high-end player for the very first time.



    Both new players share the same key features: 1080/60p and 24p video, support of all high-resolution audio formats via HDMI version 1.3a, plus support for AVCHD discs encoded with x.v.Color.



    While the operating feature set on the higher-end BDP-S2000ES is identical to the BDP-S500, the higher end player includes several fortifications to the player's build, including "dual shield construction" and separate boards for audio and video, which Sony says will provide for even better quality performance. The BDP-S2000ES is the first Blu-ray player to carry Sony's ES ("Elevated Standards") designation.



    Each of the two players are due to hit stores in the United States sometime this fall, joining the already-released lower-end BDP-300 ($499).





    CEDIA: Pioneer Unveils New Elite Blu-ray Player for October



    http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/news...or_October/938



    Quote:

    The parade of next-gen hardware announcements from CEDIA continues with news of a new Blu-ray player from Pioneer.



    Dubbed the Elite BDP-95FD, this third Blu-ray player from Pioneer picks up where the BDP-94HD (released last spring) left off, featuring 1080p video at a rate of 24 frames per second.



    In a first for Pioneer, the new deck will feature HDMI version 1.3 output, enabling support of all high-resolution audio formats.



    Also new to the BDP-95FD is HDMI Consumer Electronics Control (CEC), which is designed to simplify integration of operation with other HDMI-CEC-enabled high-definition theater components.



    Pioneer says the Elite BDP-95FD will carry a $1,000 suggested retail price, and is due on store shelves this October.



    And BTW, here are a few pics of the Blu-ray players shown at IFA last week...



    JVC Blu-ray Player







    Daewoo Blu-ray Player







    Loewe Blu-ray Player







    Denon Blu-ray Players









    Funai Blu-ray Player







    Sharp Blu-ray Player







    Philips Blu-ray Player







    And that's only some of the pictures from BDA proponents.
  • Reply 3291 of 4650
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    I hope that top denon is a prototype because not painting the back black is chimpy.
  • Reply 3292 of 4650
    Asus backs Blu-ray



    http://www.channelregister.co.uk/200..._goes_blu-ray/



    Quote:

    Asus has rolled up its sleeves and jumped into the next-generation optical disc format fight on the side of Blu-ray Disc. This week it announced a multi-format DVD writer with the ability to play BD media.



    The BC-1205PT Blu-ray Drive is an internal SATA drive for PCs. It'll burn DVD±R/RW media at up to 12x speed, falling to 4x speed with dual-layer discs. It will also handle DVD-RAM writing duties, along with CD-R/RW.



    Despite the name, the drive won't write BD-R or BD-RE media, but it will read these formats and BD-ROM discs, all at up to 5x speed.



    Asus also said the drive was good for "high-resolution movie playback" - though users will need BD-compatible playback software for that.



    Alas the company didn't say when the drive will be available over here.



    Anyone else gettin the "Rollin" song from Limp Bizkit in their head with all these Blu-ray announcements?...
  • Reply 3293 of 4650
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post


    1. Stop. You know the figure as well as I. A link....Christ.



    2. Yes.



    3. I like how you just pulled that out of your ass. They're selling twice as many discs, some weeks 3x as many. So the attach rate is bullshit. The other problem with it is that it doesn't take into account rentals from Blockbuster and Netflix, which buy millions of discs. I myself don't buy many movies, for example. But I watch them.





    Actually, the figure you're noting seems to be just a speculation because people ,even Bill Hunt, has taken back these claims at later time. I guess few phone calls by lawyers would do that to a man. (I personally don't care who paid who. We know Sony also paid many others to keep them exlcusive and this isn't a big surprise even if it turns out to be true.)



    If you personally feel attach rate does not matter, then it must not matter. I can't really say much about that.



    Since the HDM rental activity is more popular via online services for now, I'll doubt the amount of purchase volume will be significant by Neftflix and Blockbuster together. The Hidef Market still being a niche, the solftware volume consumed by these online rental stores will be very limited. You have the right idea, but it's too early to make that assumption.



    The 2:1 or even 3:1 sales ratio at current volume level of 100k - 200K of a blockbuster movie title means very little when the mass market is capable of consuming 7.1 million units over frist three weeks, in the case of "300". Perhaps, the sales ratio may be even less significant than the attach rate at the current HDM market size.
  • Reply 3294 of 4650
    emig647emig647 Posts: 2,455member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post


    Says who? It's also a big "if." Pretty soon, "low end" BD players will cost nearly the same as HD-DVD players anyway. The PS3 is not going below $200 anytime soon.



    Mmmm, I wouldn't count on that one. Today at cedia a lot of new Blu-ray players have been announced, ranging from 550 -> 1500. How is it they can't even beat the ps3's pricing? My guess is sony being very strict on the player's pricing to keep the ps3 competitive.



    http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/news...or_October/938



    http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/news...ay_Players/934



    http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/news/...in_October/929
  • Reply 3295 of 4650
    guarthoguartho Posts: 1,208member
    I don't see the reasoning behind that. Isn't Sony still losing money on each PS3? Why would they not want the other Blu-ray manufacturers to compete. A Blu-ray player in someone's home is a Blu-ray player in someone's home. Why would Sony prefer to lose money on their own device and maybe recoup on software rather than lose no money on someone else's device and still get the income from the software?
  • Reply 3296 of 4650
    frank777frank777 Posts: 5,839member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by marzetta7 View Post


    Fawcett cited NPD Group research for the data, but declined to declined to provide exact market share percentages of the two sides



    I wonder why Sony would do something like that?
  • Reply 3297 of 4650
    bitemymacbitemymac Posts: 1,147member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Guartho View Post


    I don't see the reasoning behind that. Isn't Sony still losing money on each PS3? Why would they not want the other Blu-ray manufacturers to compete. A Blu-ray player in someone's home is a Blu-ray player in someone's home. Why would Sony prefer to lose money on their own device and maybe recoup on software rather than lose no money on someone else's device and still get the income from the software?



    Perhaps, there are tons of 60GB PS3 still in storage?



    BTW, isn't Funai supposed to be the J6P brand for Blu-Ray? I would think such brand would retail at sub $400.
  • Reply 3298 of 4650
    marzetta7marzetta7 Posts: 1,323member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bitemymac View Post


    Actually, the figure you're noting seems to be just a speculation because people ,even Bill Hunt, has taken back these claims at later time. I guess few phone calls by lawyers would do that to a man. (I personally don't care who paid who. We know Sony also paid many others to keep them exlcusive and this isn't a big surprise even if it turns out to be true.)



    Bill Hunt did NOT take back these FACTS--that Paramount was paid off. Nor has many news outlets. This is what Bill stated...



    Quote:

    Finally today, Kevin and Amir... this one's for you: We've been doing a lot of digging into the events of last week, and have learned from reliable sources some of what went on behind the scenes. And our friends up in Microsoft's HD-DVD Evangelism office will be pleased to know that we believe we've corrborated some of what they've been saying in recent days: The $150 million payment to Paramount and DreamWorks didn't come from Microsoft. It apparently came from Toshiba and/or the HD-DVD camp collectively. We've been told that Microsoft was involved in the process, but they didn't cut the checks. We've also learned from sources inside the studio and elsewhere around the industry that, despite Paramount and DreamWorks' decision, Warner remains committed to retaining their format neutral stance, and will continue to support BOTH Blu-ray and HD-DVD for the foreseeable future. So we wanted to post this, as we believe it's reliable (the most reliable information we've been able to obtain so far from independent sources) and it clarifies the situation a little bit. 'Nuff said



    Bought off, pure and simple. No speculation necessary. WSJ and NYT also confirmed it. The only speculation here is yours in trying to paint the HD DVD group as some innocent bunny...about as innocent as Boingo...



  • Reply 3299 of 4650
    frank777frank777 Posts: 5,839member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by marzetta7 View Post


    Bought off, pure and simple. No speculation necessary. WSJ and NYT also confirmed it. The only speculation here is yours in trying to paint the HD DVD group as some innocent bunny...about as innocent as Boingo...



    You're just hopeless. How many people has Sony bought off in this war?



    At the very least, you and the rest of the BR troupe who went ballistic over the Paramount deal should now have the decency to apologize for spreading FUD about Microsoft's involvement and the ridiculous "control the market through downloads" conspiracy crap.
  • Reply 3300 of 4650
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post


    At the very least, you and the rest of the BR troupe who went ballistic over the Paramount deal should now have the decency to apologize for spreading FUD about Microsoft's involvement and the ridiculous "control the market through downloads" conspiracy crap.



    Um...why? I believe MS gave money to the HD-DVD camp (no citation so its just a belief at the moment).



    Saying that it is in MS's interest to continue the format war is likely true. It's true for Apple, Amazon and anyone with a digital movie service apart from the members of BDA and HD-DVD that would gain licensing royalties and the studios themselves.



    For MS, Apple, etc market confusion does no harm as it simply moves the optical adoption rate ever closer to sufficient FTTP/FTTN/DOCSIS 3 penetration to get average internet speeds to 10+ Mbps and viable movie streaming/download.
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