The video seems to show that their phone were evolving from a design based on Palm devices, until they abruptly changed direction in 2007. I wonder what that could mean?
LOL! So you think they developed the touch because the iphone was about to come out? Do you have any concept at all the amount of time it takes for a phone to go from a concept on paper to a manufactured product?
Ugh, this is so stupid. We're arguing over what an alternate reality might hold.
You think what you want, I'll think what I want, but lets stick to the topic here in this thread.
Before the Chief Financial Officer of HTC makes a stupid comment, maybe he should read the manual to their own product next time.
No one gives a damn about Motorola, HTC, LG, Samsung, etc...that is why this has never been raised before. Apple has more success than the others so they'll do anything to knock them down a peg. What doesn't make sense is that the same thing happens with the original iPhone. That big piece of black plastic on the lower half is where the antenna is. Smother it and the bars go down. Same thing with an iPod Touch. The little piece of black plastic is where the Wi-Fi antenna is. Smother that and you will reduce the antenna's efficiency. So many people lack common sense.
the only objective way to compare the effect of the human hand on various brands of smartphones would be carefully controlled lab tests using identical "hands" and transmitters (not really any person's) - which as far as i know, no one has performed. certainly not Consumer Reports. so we don't have that objective data.
in the outside real world, ad hoc phone reception is affected by many variables. the power of the local transmitter, the version of that transmitter, how far you are from it, possible interference, if you are inside a building (especially concrete), the number of simultaneous users on that cell site, and you - how big is your hand (male/female difference here)? how fat/skinny? all of which is why different people report different experience with the iPhone and other brands.
but anyone insisting here or elsewhere their ad hoc experience is somehow the whole true story about this is flat out crazy.
... It's amazing how people like you and anonymouse think this whole thing is some sort of gotcha game, where by admitting there's a design flaw in the iphone 4, you've lost!
For you, it certainly seems to be a gotcha game. But, the evidence contradicts your assertion that there is a "design flaw" in the iP4, any more than all these other phones have similar "design flaws". If we consider it a design flaw, then, apparently all of these phones are flawed, which makes the concept of a flaw trivial to the point of not being a point.
What you are really trying to argue, by mixing up timelines and facts, is that the iP4 is unique in this particular "flaw". Yet, the available evidence contradicts your assertions, especially when the web of misrepresentation you attempt to weave is untangled.
Quote:
Get over yourself. If you really thought I was a troll rather than someone who brings a decent discussion to the table, I'd be on your ignore list.
No, some of us believe that people like you ought not be ignored so that the FUD you attempt to spread can be countered. I'm sure you would prefer if we did ignore you, so you could just go on misrepresenting facts without being called on it.
Then keep reading, because the person he's talking about had already said he never experienced these issues with their previous iphones. You'll see that a few posts back.
I did start reading the back and forth after I posted my comment.
From what I can tell the EVO user compared the iPhone 3G/3GS to the iP4 and reported that the iP4 dropped calls while the 3G/3GS did not. What he didn't report was if the signal strength was "weak". It does seem like the iP4 has a more sensitive weak spot than the 3G/3GS. But I also know that networks make a difference. The fact that his EVO worked better than the iP4 is due more to the network than the phone. But that's just my opinion. Let's face it....for every good reception iP4 story there is a bad reception iP4 story. However, that doesn't mean the good vs bad split is 50/50.
LOL! So you think they developed the touch because the iphone was about to come out? Do you have any concept at all the amount of time it takes for a phone to go from a concept on paper to a manufactured product?
Ugh, this is so stupid. We're arguing over what an alternate reality might hold.
You think what you want, I'll think what I want, but lets stick to the topic here in this thread.
Well, yes, it is stupid. I don't know why you started that particular conversation in the first place, unfounded as your assertion was. I guess you thought it wouldn't be refutable?
And yes, that is pretty much the MO of HTC, to copy whatever seems to be popular at the time, and not to innovate on their own. For the cheap quality phones they produce, it probably doesn't take long at all, especially since that's exactly their business model.
Well, fine, it was your experience and you switched to EVO based on it. But what relevance does that have to the discussion? What does it add to the understanding of the issues?
I would say it doesn't add anything meaningful, in and of itself.
lol...you don't get it and you probably won't because you have asuch a negative posture when ti comes to defending Apple no matter what.....
Thats fine...at least I understand what your conext is. I did not test in a lab with all kinds of expensive machines. I did not have people with degrees and all kinds of acronyms after their names run the tests. MY test were real world with 4 phones...and 2 differnt networks only one had signal loss and dropped calls based on how it was held. So how does the avergae person test these things then? How do you judge your experiences if not from real world from actually what happened to you? You can point to what Apple says is real. You can find all kinds of articles and blogs from people to give differing opinions. Experts weigh in and give technical dat to prove one opinion or they other....but at the end of the day you have to go with what you can actually prove and what actually happened to you......thats what i did.....
For you, it certainly seems to be a gotcha game. But, the evidence contradicts your assertion that there is a "design flaw" in the iP4, any more than all these other phones have similar "design flaws". If we consider it a design flaw, then, apparently all of these phones are flawed, which makes the concept of a flaw trivial to the point of not being a point.
What you are really trying to argue, by mixing up timelines and facts, is that the iP4 is unique in this particular "flaw". Yet, the available evidence contradicts your assertions, especially when the web of misrepresentation you attempt to weave is untangled.
No, some of us believe that people like you ought not be ignored so that the FUD you attempt to spread can be countered. I'm sure you would prefer if we did ignore you, so you could just go on misrepresenting facts without being called on it.
Right, that's why by pressing a single finger on that bar, the signal changes. That's a little different than wrapping your hand around a phone and squeezing it. That's a design flaw that software won't fix. It can help to mask it, but it won't fix it. The best solution is a case, which Apple has offered for free to those who need it, and I applaud them for that.
What you're choosing to ignore is the severity of the issue and how it differs from the other phones in this way. I can't think of another phone where a single finger can disrupt the signal, no matter how your bars are represented. You keep bringing up the 4.01 update as if that changes the very fact that attenuation can happen so easily.
Your deluded logic is basically to tell people who have a genuine issue, that there IS NO issue, and if there is, it's present in all phones so get over it. Case? Who needs a case, there's no issue. Apple is wasting money giving away cases. Jeesh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
Well, yes, it is stupid. I don't know why you started that particular conversation in the first place, unfounded as your assertion was. I guess you thought it wouldn't be refutable?
And yes, that is pretty much the MO of HTC, to copy whatever seems to be popular at the time, and not to innovate on their own. For the cheap quality phones they produce, it probably doesn't take long at all, especially since that's exactly their business model.
I knew you'd say this, but if you actually followed how it got brought up, you'd see it wasn't me who started that particular conversation. Way to go.
As far as your other statements, I know it's crap coming from someone with an obvious bias. Having that discussion with you is pointless, because you're absolutely confident in your incorrect assertion that phones wouldn't be anything like what they are today without Apple.
I posted this to yesterday's thread... but today, everyone is here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hezetation
I keep looking at the antenna design on the iPhone 4 and wondering why they didn't reverse the framing so that the bottom antenna for wifi was up at the top where few people grab the phone. It is like they put it in the worst possible spot for how people grab it.
Maybe I'm misguided on which pieces serve as what antenna, just was under the impression that the bottom piece of the frame was wifi and left piece was cell, thus bridging them causes an issue. Anyone know more about this?
Though it looks like there are 3 segments, the black line on the lower right (apparently) is for cosmetic reasons.
I can't really answer which is which, but I have a picture and some possible ways Apple could modify future antennas to mitigate the problem:
Edit: I suspect that the right antenna, Antenna B, is the cell antenna because the SIM card is located on the right side???
They released a phone to the public that would drop your call if you touched it, literally. This is not something that other companies have done, and the only "problem" that other phones suffered from came from those death grip scenarios.
What's going on is the connection is bridged when you touch the black band. Changing how the bars are represented doesn't solve this. Just because their single bar is now at -121 instead of -113, it doesn't mean they have solved the issue. It's the equivalent of getting a bigger tub instead of going on a diet when a fat person displaces all the water.
Again, this software update along with a bumper is all that was needed. Dragging other companies in to bash them, and capitalizing on the public's ignorance about attenuation was just unnecessary and makes Apple look bad (in my eyes anyway.)
Pretty much this. I'll just paste my reply from the other thread:
Of course there's going to be a drop in signal when you block the antenna. The difference is that RIM\\Nokia antennas are generally placed at the top/bottom of the phone, where it's less likely to be blocked, as opposed to the Steve-spot where it's natural to place your palm/fingers.
I thought the original problem was that for some people touching the Steve spot on the 4 bridged the two antennas together, causing them to stop working altogether. So it's actually a twofold issue for the 4, blocking the antenna (which is for the most part neutralized by the stronger reception by being external) and some peoples chemistries shorting the antenna, whereas the majority of phones only have to deal with the former, which is minimized by smart placement and an adequate radio.
RIM's statement is spot on, it really is down to Apple's design choices. Have to hand it to SJ though, I didn't think his reasoning would change opinion so sharply, as it seemed rather weak to me. Though forfeiting the "magical" quality and saying they're on level with other phones have to face may have been too high a price.
lol...you don't get it and you probably won't because you have asuch a negative posture when ti comes to defending Apple no matter what.....
Thats fine...at least I understand what your conext is. I did not test in a lab with all kinds of expensive machines. I did not have people with degrees and all kinds of acronyms after their names run the tests. MY test were real world with 4 phones...and 2 differnt networks only one had signal loss and dropped calls based on how it was held. So how does the avergae person test these things then? How do you judge your experiences if not from real world from actually what happened to you? You can point to what Apple says is real. You can find all kinds of articles and blogs from people to give differing opinions. Experts weigh in and give technical dat to prove one opinion or they other....but at the end of the day you have to go with what you can actually prove and what actually happened to you......thats what i did.....
What tests did you do on YOUR own?
It's very simple, really. I would trust the more rigorous testing over your "real world" experience, which contains few data points, was carried out under uncontrolled conditions, and is subject to a huge range of possible factors of which I have no knowledge. My own testing would carry more weight for me. I would not expect my testing to carry any weight for you. You ought not expect your testing to be of any importance to anyone else, besides, perhaps, being an interesting tale.
Pretty much this. I'll just paste my reply from the other thread:
Of course there's going to be a drop in signal when you block the antenna. The difference is that RIM\\Nokia antennas are generally placed at the top/bottom of the phone, where it's less likely to be blocked, as opposed to the Steve-spot where it's natural to place your palm/fingers.
I thought the original problem was that for some people touching the Steve spot on the 4 bridged the two antennas together, causing them to stop working altogether. So it's actually a twofold issue for the 4, blocking the antenna (which is for the most part neutralized by the stronger reception by being external) and some peoples chemistries shorting the antenna, whereas the majority of phones only have to deal with the former, which is minimized by smart placement and an adequate radio.
RIM's statement is spot on, it really is down to Apple's design choices. Have to hand it to SJ though, I didn't think his reasoning would change opinion so sharply, as it seemed rather weak to me. Though forfeiting the "magical" quality and saying they're on level with other phones have to face may have been too high a price.
The thing about Steve Jobs is he's so friggin smart, it's hard not to believe everything he says. He doesn't come off as some money-hungry corporatist douche, so it's easy to trust him.
At the end of the day though, he's a salesman who is trying to push a particular product. One must always keep that in mind.
I think I'm judging Apple very fairly on this. If I was Consumer Reports, I don't necessarily think I'd have the same opinion about whether or not to recommend the phone though. If I were them, I would have said something like "We recommend this phone, but with caution to those in low signal areas."
It's very simple, really. I would trust the more rigorous testing over your "real world" experience, which contains few data points, was carried out under uncontrolled conditions, and is subject to a huge range of possible factors of which I have no knowledge. My own testing would carry more weight for me. I would not expect my testing to carry any weight for you. You ought not expect your testing to be of any importance to anyone else, besides, perhaps, being an interesting tale.
It has some bearing when trying to get an idea of how severe the issue is for people who are in low signal areas, or in the ideal conditions for this sort of thing to occur.
Even Apple has taken reports seriously, sending out their own people to interview and gather information from those who reported it. Remember?
Right, that's why by pressing a single finger on that bar, the signal changes. That's a little different than wrapping your hand around a phone and squeezing it. That's a design flaw that software won't fix. It can help to mask it, but it won't fix it. The best solution is a case, which Apple has offered for free to those who need it, and I applaud them for that.
What you're choosing to ignore is the severity of the issue and how it differs from the other phones in this way. I can't think of another phone where a single finger can disrupt the signal, no matter how your bars are represented. You keep bringing up the 4.01 update as if that changes the very fact that attenuation can happen so easily.
Apple's offer of a case is a fine solution that effectively eliminates the issue. But that doesn't mean it's "more severe" than on other phones. What's their solution? Oh, a case?
The main difference, as has been pointed out is that with the iP4, it's pretty obvious how to avoid the problem if you don't have a case. It's not so obvious with the other phones, even though they suffer from the same issue
Quote:
Your deluded logic is basically to tell people who have a genuine issue, that there IS NO issue, and if there is, it's present in all phones so get over it. Case? Who needs a case, there's no issue. Apple is wasting money giving away cases. Jeesh.
There you go again, misrepresenting what I've said. I mean, I know you don't have a real argument, and that misrepresentation is habitual with you, but people reading this thread can easily see that you're doing it.
Quote:
I knew you'd say this, but if you actually followed how it got brought up, you'd see it wasn't me who started that particular conversation. Way to go.
As far as your other statements, I know it's crap coming from someone with an obvious bias. Having that discussion with you is pointless, because you're absolutely confident in your incorrect assertion that phones wouldn't be anything like what they are today without Apple.
Was it not you who claimed that, if Apple had not announced and released the iPhone in 2007, phones today would still look like iPhones, despite the fact that they were, up to that point, evolving in a completely different direction.
Now I think you are even misrepresenting what you have said.
It has some bearing when trying to get an idea of how severe the issue is for people who are in low signal areas, or in the ideal conditions for this sort of thing to occur.
Even Apple has taken reports seriously, sending out their own people to interview and gather information from those who reported it. Remember?
No, someone else's report of their "experience" under casual circumstances, of which we have no knowledge and which is not repeatable by others has absolutely no value in evaluating the issue.
While I do agree with you on most of what you said......I just don't a lot peopel complaining about dropped calls and signal loss on the other phones makers. thats doesn't mean they don't exist. I would even agree with the premise that ALL smartphones have some signal loss depending on how you hold them. BUT I have NEVER had a dropped call or signal loss with my iPhone 3G or 3GS or anyother phone I have had becasue of the way I held it. I have had a lot of phones over the years and from different carriers and nerver had theis happen until the 4G......That is just my experience......
I am one of the fortunate people who hasve no problems with my iP4.
I am trying to understand the issue. You've posted on AI, and have a reputation for honest reasoned posts. I would like to hear your opinion!
Did you have dropped calls with your iP4?
Some have said they were able to make calls in weak signal areas on the iP4 and not on the 3G or 3GS-- I think some of the tech reviews had similar findings.
Some have said that the weak signal calls completed normally on the iP4, and were not possible on the 3G or 3GS.
Others have said that they dropped the call on the iP4, but it wasn't unexpected, because only the iP4 could make the call.
Apple's offer of a case is a fine solution that effectively eliminates the issue. But that doesn't mean it's "more severe" than on other phones. What's their solution? Oh, a case?
The main difference, as has been pointed out is that with the iP4, it's pretty obvious how to avoid the problem if you don't have a case. It's not so obvious with the other phones, even though they suffer from the same issue
There you go again, misrepresenting what I've said. I mean, I know you don't have a real argument, and that misrepresentation is habitual with you, but people reading this thread can easily see that you're doing it.
Was it not you who claimed that, if Apple had not announced and released the iPhone in 2007, phones today would still look like iPhones, despite the fact that they were, up to that point, evolving in a completely different direction.
Now I think you are even misrepresenting what you have said.
Have you decided to dumb down your comments in an attempt to at least be annoying if anything else than wrong?
First off, stop ignoring that there's a difference between the light touch of a finger, and the firm grip of a hand.
Secondly, as far as your deluded logic, look how you tried to make geekdad feel like his story doesn't matter in this discussion, when in fact it does.
Finally, read how that little topic came up and who brought it up when replying to me. You decided to pounce on it and try to turn it into a discussion, now you're claiming I brought it up. Is it really so hard to stop trying to discuss it? Even when faced with the truth, you'll find a way to twist it. You fanatics remind me of the far right fringe in politics.
No, someone else's report of their "experience" under casual circumstances, of which we have no knowledge and which is not repeatable by others has absolutely no value in evaluating the issue.
See, now you're going to argue with me on THIS. Again, you remind me of the lunatic far right fringe who will argue with anyone they even THINK is liberal. I could tell you the sky is blue, and you'd come back arguing it's only blue sometimes, and even then it's not technically blue according to some kind of color chart
How about this: Instead of arguing over what we disagree on, why don't we find what we agree on and end it. So what do we agree on? That Apple's move to give cases to those who needed it was a good one, and that anyone with this issue who continues to complain past their 30 day mark shouldn't, since they had a chance to get out.
Before the Chief Financial Officer of HTC makes a stupid comment, maybe he should read the manual to their own product next time.
No one gives a damn about Motorola, HTC, LG, Samsung, etc...that is why this has never been raised before. Apple has more success than the others so they'll do anything to knock them down a peg. What doesn't make sense is that the same thing happens with the original iPhone. That big piece of black plastic on the lower half is where the antenna is. Smother it and the bars go down. Same thing with an iPod Touch. The little piece of black plastic is where the Wi-Fi antenna is. Smother that and you will reduce the antenna's efficiency. So many people lack common sense.
Come on, you gotta feel good after letting that one go! whoo-weee! Clear the room, y'all!
Comments
The video seems to show that their phone were evolving from a design based on Palm devices, until they abruptly changed direction in 2007. I wonder what that could mean?
LOL! So you think they developed the touch because the iphone was about to come out? Do you have any concept at all the amount of time it takes for a phone to go from a concept on paper to a manufactured product?
Ugh, this is so stupid. We're arguing over what an alternate reality might hold.
You think what you want, I'll think what I want, but lets stick to the topic here in this thread.
No one gives a damn about Motorola, HTC, LG, Samsung, etc...that is why this has never been raised before. Apple has more success than the others so they'll do anything to knock them down a peg. What doesn't make sense is that the same thing happens with the original iPhone. That big piece of black plastic on the lower half is where the antenna is. Smother it and the bars go down. Same thing with an iPod Touch. The little piece of black plastic is where the Wi-Fi antenna is. Smother that and you will reduce the antenna's efficiency. So many people lack common sense.
in the outside real world, ad hoc phone reception is affected by many variables. the power of the local transmitter, the version of that transmitter, how far you are from it, possible interference, if you are inside a building (especially concrete), the number of simultaneous users on that cell site, and you - how big is your hand (male/female difference here)? how fat/skinny? all of which is why different people report different experience with the iPhone and other brands.
but anyone insisting here or elsewhere their ad hoc experience is somehow the whole true story about this is flat out crazy.
... It's amazing how people like you and anonymouse think this whole thing is some sort of gotcha game, where by admitting there's a design flaw in the iphone 4, you've lost!
For you, it certainly seems to be a gotcha game. But, the evidence contradicts your assertion that there is a "design flaw" in the iP4, any more than all these other phones have similar "design flaws". If we consider it a design flaw, then, apparently all of these phones are flawed, which makes the concept of a flaw trivial to the point of not being a point.
What you are really trying to argue, by mixing up timelines and facts, is that the iP4 is unique in this particular "flaw". Yet, the available evidence contradicts your assertions, especially when the web of misrepresentation you attempt to weave is untangled.
Get over yourself. If you really thought I was a troll rather than someone who brings a decent discussion to the table, I'd be on your ignore list.
No, some of us believe that people like you ought not be ignored so that the FUD you attempt to spread can be countered. I'm sure you would prefer if we did ignore you, so you could just go on misrepresenting facts without being called on it.
Then keep reading, because the person he's talking about had already said he never experienced these issues with their previous iphones. You'll see that a few posts back.
I did start reading the back and forth after I posted my comment.
From what I can tell the EVO user compared the iPhone 3G/3GS to the iP4 and reported that the iP4 dropped calls while the 3G/3GS did not. What he didn't report was if the signal strength was "weak". It does seem like the iP4 has a more sensitive weak spot than the 3G/3GS. But I also know that networks make a difference. The fact that his EVO worked better than the iP4 is due more to the network than the phone. But that's just my opinion. Let's face it....for every good reception iP4 story there is a bad reception iP4 story. However, that doesn't mean the good vs bad split is 50/50.
LOL! So you think they developed the touch because the iphone was about to come out? Do you have any concept at all the amount of time it takes for a phone to go from a concept on paper to a manufactured product?
Ugh, this is so stupid. We're arguing over what an alternate reality might hold.
You think what you want, I'll think what I want, but lets stick to the topic here in this thread.
Well, yes, it is stupid. I don't know why you started that particular conversation in the first place, unfounded as your assertion was. I guess you thought it wouldn't be refutable?
And yes, that is pretty much the MO of HTC, to copy whatever seems to be popular at the time, and not to innovate on their own. For the cheap quality phones they produce, it probably doesn't take long at all, especially since that's exactly their business model.
Well, fine, it was your experience and you switched to EVO based on it. But what relevance does that have to the discussion? What does it add to the understanding of the issues?
I would say it doesn't add anything meaningful, in and of itself.
lol...you don't get it and you probably won't because you have asuch a negative posture when ti comes to defending Apple no matter what.....
Thats fine...at least I understand what your conext is. I did not test in a lab with all kinds of expensive machines. I did not have people with degrees and all kinds of acronyms after their names run the tests. MY test were real world with 4 phones...and 2 differnt networks only one had signal loss and dropped calls based on how it was held. So how does the avergae person test these things then? How do you judge your experiences if not from real world from actually what happened to you? You can point to what Apple says is real. You can find all kinds of articles and blogs from people to give differing opinions. Experts weigh in and give technical dat to prove one opinion or they other....but at the end of the day you have to go with what you can actually prove and what actually happened to you......thats what i did.....
What tests did you do on YOUR own?
For you, it certainly seems to be a gotcha game. But, the evidence contradicts your assertion that there is a "design flaw" in the iP4, any more than all these other phones have similar "design flaws". If we consider it a design flaw, then, apparently all of these phones are flawed, which makes the concept of a flaw trivial to the point of not being a point.
What you are really trying to argue, by mixing up timelines and facts, is that the iP4 is unique in this particular "flaw". Yet, the available evidence contradicts your assertions, especially when the web of misrepresentation you attempt to weave is untangled.
No, some of us believe that people like you ought not be ignored so that the FUD you attempt to spread can be countered. I'm sure you would prefer if we did ignore you, so you could just go on misrepresenting facts without being called on it.
Right, that's why by pressing a single finger on that bar, the signal changes. That's a little different than wrapping your hand around a phone and squeezing it. That's a design flaw that software won't fix. It can help to mask it, but it won't fix it. The best solution is a case, which Apple has offered for free to those who need it, and I applaud them for that.
What you're choosing to ignore is the severity of the issue and how it differs from the other phones in this way. I can't think of another phone where a single finger can disrupt the signal, no matter how your bars are represented. You keep bringing up the 4.01 update as if that changes the very fact that attenuation can happen so easily.
Your deluded logic is basically to tell people who have a genuine issue, that there IS NO issue, and if there is, it's present in all phones so get over it. Case? Who needs a case, there's no issue. Apple is wasting money giving away cases. Jeesh.
Well, yes, it is stupid. I don't know why you started that particular conversation in the first place, unfounded as your assertion was. I guess you thought it wouldn't be refutable?
And yes, that is pretty much the MO of HTC, to copy whatever seems to be popular at the time, and not to innovate on their own. For the cheap quality phones they produce, it probably doesn't take long at all, especially since that's exactly their business model.
I knew you'd say this, but if you actually followed how it got brought up, you'd see it wasn't me who started that particular conversation. Way to go.
As far as your other statements, I know it's crap coming from someone with an obvious bias. Having that discussion with you is pointless, because you're absolutely confident in your incorrect assertion that phones wouldn't be anything like what they are today without Apple.
I posted this to yesterday's thread... but today, everyone is here.
I keep looking at the antenna design on the iPhone 4 and wondering why they didn't reverse the framing so that the bottom antenna for wifi was up at the top where few people grab the phone. It is like they put it in the worst possible spot for how people grab it.
Maybe I'm misguided on which pieces serve as what antenna, just was under the impression that the bottom piece of the frame was wifi and left piece was cell, thus bridging them causes an issue. Anyone know more about this?
Though it looks like there are 3 segments, the black line on the lower right (apparently) is for cosmetic reasons.
I can't really answer which is which, but I have a picture and some possible ways Apple could modify future antennas to mitigate the problem:
Edit: I suspect that the right antenna, Antenna B, is the cell antenna because the SIM card is located on the right side???
Which antenna is used for what?
3G
Edge
WiFi
BlueTooth
possible NFC/RFID?
.
They released a phone to the public that would drop your call if you touched it, literally. This is not something that other companies have done, and the only "problem" that other phones suffered from came from those death grip scenarios.
What's going on is the connection is bridged when you touch the black band. Changing how the bars are represented doesn't solve this. Just because their single bar is now at -121 instead of -113, it doesn't mean they have solved the issue. It's the equivalent of getting a bigger tub instead of going on a diet when a fat person displaces all the water.
Again, this software update along with a bumper is all that was needed. Dragging other companies in to bash them, and capitalizing on the public's ignorance about attenuation was just unnecessary and makes Apple look bad (in my eyes anyway.)
Pretty much this. I'll just paste my reply from the other thread:
Of course there's going to be a drop in signal when you block the antenna. The difference is that RIM\\Nokia antennas are generally placed at the top/bottom of the phone, where it's less likely to be blocked, as opposed to the Steve-spot where it's natural to place your palm/fingers.
I thought the original problem was that for some people touching the Steve spot on the 4 bridged the two antennas together, causing them to stop working altogether. So it's actually a twofold issue for the 4, blocking the antenna (which is for the most part neutralized by the stronger reception by being external) and some peoples chemistries shorting the antenna, whereas the majority of phones only have to deal with the former, which is minimized by smart placement and an adequate radio.
RIM's statement is spot on, it really is down to Apple's design choices. Have to hand it to SJ though, I didn't think his reasoning would change opinion so sharply, as it seemed rather weak to me. Though forfeiting the "magical" quality and saying they're on level with other phones have to face may have been too high a price.
lol...you don't get it and you probably won't because you have asuch a negative posture when ti comes to defending Apple no matter what.....
Thats fine...at least I understand what your conext is. I did not test in a lab with all kinds of expensive machines. I did not have people with degrees and all kinds of acronyms after their names run the tests. MY test were real world with 4 phones...and 2 differnt networks only one had signal loss and dropped calls based on how it was held. So how does the avergae person test these things then? How do you judge your experiences if not from real world from actually what happened to you? You can point to what Apple says is real. You can find all kinds of articles and blogs from people to give differing opinions. Experts weigh in and give technical dat to prove one opinion or they other....but at the end of the day you have to go with what you can actually prove and what actually happened to you......thats what i did.....
What tests did you do on YOUR own?
It's very simple, really. I would trust the more rigorous testing over your "real world" experience, which contains few data points, was carried out under uncontrolled conditions, and is subject to a huge range of possible factors of which I have no knowledge. My own testing would carry more weight for me. I would not expect my testing to carry any weight for you. You ought not expect your testing to be of any importance to anyone else, besides, perhaps, being an interesting tale.
Pretty much this. I'll just paste my reply from the other thread:
Of course there's going to be a drop in signal when you block the antenna. The difference is that RIM\\Nokia antennas are generally placed at the top/bottom of the phone, where it's less likely to be blocked, as opposed to the Steve-spot where it's natural to place your palm/fingers.
I thought the original problem was that for some people touching the Steve spot on the 4 bridged the two antennas together, causing them to stop working altogether. So it's actually a twofold issue for the 4, blocking the antenna (which is for the most part neutralized by the stronger reception by being external) and some peoples chemistries shorting the antenna, whereas the majority of phones only have to deal with the former, which is minimized by smart placement and an adequate radio.
RIM's statement is spot on, it really is down to Apple's design choices. Have to hand it to SJ though, I didn't think his reasoning would change opinion so sharply, as it seemed rather weak to me. Though forfeiting the "magical" quality and saying they're on level with other phones have to face may have been too high a price.
The thing about Steve Jobs is he's so friggin smart, it's hard not to believe everything he says. He doesn't come off as some money-hungry corporatist douche, so it's easy to trust him.
At the end of the day though, he's a salesman who is trying to push a particular product. One must always keep that in mind.
I think I'm judging Apple very fairly on this. If I was Consumer Reports, I don't necessarily think I'd have the same opinion about whether or not to recommend the phone though. If I were them, I would have said something like "We recommend this phone, but with caution to those in low signal areas."
It's very simple, really. I would trust the more rigorous testing over your "real world" experience, which contains few data points, was carried out under uncontrolled conditions, and is subject to a huge range of possible factors of which I have no knowledge. My own testing would carry more weight for me. I would not expect my testing to carry any weight for you. You ought not expect your testing to be of any importance to anyone else, besides, perhaps, being an interesting tale.
It has some bearing when trying to get an idea of how severe the issue is for people who are in low signal areas, or in the ideal conditions for this sort of thing to occur.
Even Apple has taken reports seriously, sending out their own people to interview and gather information from those who reported it. Remember?
Right, that's why by pressing a single finger on that bar, the signal changes. That's a little different than wrapping your hand around a phone and squeezing it. That's a design flaw that software won't fix. It can help to mask it, but it won't fix it. The best solution is a case, which Apple has offered for free to those who need it, and I applaud them for that.
What you're choosing to ignore is the severity of the issue and how it differs from the other phones in this way. I can't think of another phone where a single finger can disrupt the signal, no matter how your bars are represented. You keep bringing up the 4.01 update as if that changes the very fact that attenuation can happen so easily.
Apple's offer of a case is a fine solution that effectively eliminates the issue. But that doesn't mean it's "more severe" than on other phones. What's their solution? Oh, a case?
The main difference, as has been pointed out is that with the iP4, it's pretty obvious how to avoid the problem if you don't have a case. It's not so obvious with the other phones, even though they suffer from the same issue
Your deluded logic is basically to tell people who have a genuine issue, that there IS NO issue, and if there is, it's present in all phones so get over it. Case? Who needs a case, there's no issue. Apple is wasting money giving away cases. Jeesh.
There you go again, misrepresenting what I've said. I mean, I know you don't have a real argument, and that misrepresentation is habitual with you, but people reading this thread can easily see that you're doing it.
I knew you'd say this, but if you actually followed how it got brought up, you'd see it wasn't me who started that particular conversation. Way to go.
As far as your other statements, I know it's crap coming from someone with an obvious bias. Having that discussion with you is pointless, because you're absolutely confident in your incorrect assertion that phones wouldn't be anything like what they are today without Apple.
Was it not you who claimed that, if Apple had not announced and released the iPhone in 2007, phones today would still look like iPhones, despite the fact that they were, up to that point, evolving in a completely different direction.
Now I think you are even misrepresenting what you have said.
.
I posted this to yesterday's thread... but today, everyone is here.
Though it looks like there are 3 segments, the black line on the lower right (apparently) is for cosmetic reasons.
I can't really answer which is which, but I have a picture and some possible ways Apple could modify future antennas to mitigate the problem:
Edit: I suspect that the right antenna, Antenna B, is the cell antenna because the SIM card is located on the right side???
Which antenna is used for what?
3G
Edge
WiFi
BlueTooth
possible NFC/RFID?
.
Please send Apple your resume. They need antenna engineers just like you. Not.
It has some bearing when trying to get an idea of how severe the issue is for people who are in low signal areas, or in the ideal conditions for this sort of thing to occur.
Even Apple has taken reports seriously, sending out their own people to interview and gather information from those who reported it. Remember?
No, someone else's report of their "experience" under casual circumstances, of which we have no knowledge and which is not repeatable by others has absolutely no value in evaluating the issue.
While I do agree with you on most of what you said......I just don't a lot peopel complaining about dropped calls and signal loss on the other phones makers. thats doesn't mean they don't exist. I would even agree with the premise that ALL smartphones have some signal loss depending on how you hold them. BUT I have NEVER had a dropped call or signal loss with my iPhone 3G or 3GS or anyother phone I have had becasue of the way I held it. I have had a lot of phones over the years and from different carriers and nerver had theis happen until the 4G......That is just my experience......
I am one of the fortunate people who hasve no problems with my iP4.
I am trying to understand the issue. You've posted on AI, and have a reputation for honest reasoned posts. I would like to hear your opinion!
Did you have dropped calls with your iP4?
Some have said they were able to make calls in weak signal areas on the iP4 and not on the 3G or 3GS-- I think some of the tech reviews had similar findings.
Some have said that the weak signal calls completed normally on the iP4, and were not possible on the 3G or 3GS.
Others have said that they dropped the call on the iP4, but it wasn't unexpected, because only the iP4 could make the call.
What is your experience?
.
Apple's offer of a case is a fine solution that effectively eliminates the issue. But that doesn't mean it's "more severe" than on other phones. What's their solution? Oh, a case?
The main difference, as has been pointed out is that with the iP4, it's pretty obvious how to avoid the problem if you don't have a case. It's not so obvious with the other phones, even though they suffer from the same issue
There you go again, misrepresenting what I've said. I mean, I know you don't have a real argument, and that misrepresentation is habitual with you, but people reading this thread can easily see that you're doing it.
Was it not you who claimed that, if Apple had not announced and released the iPhone in 2007, phones today would still look like iPhones, despite the fact that they were, up to that point, evolving in a completely different direction.
Now I think you are even misrepresenting what you have said.
Have you decided to dumb down your comments in an attempt to at least be annoying if anything else than wrong?
First off, stop ignoring that there's a difference between the light touch of a finger, and the firm grip of a hand.
Secondly, as far as your deluded logic, look how you tried to make geekdad feel like his story doesn't matter in this discussion, when in fact it does.
Finally, read how that little topic came up and who brought it up when replying to me. You decided to pounce on it and try to turn it into a discussion, now you're claiming I brought it up. Is it really so hard to stop trying to discuss it? Even when faced with the truth, you'll find a way to twist it. You fanatics remind me of the far right fringe in politics.
No, someone else's report of their "experience" under casual circumstances, of which we have no knowledge and which is not repeatable by others has absolutely no value in evaluating the issue.
See, now you're going to argue with me on THIS. Again, you remind me of the lunatic far right fringe who will argue with anyone they even THINK is liberal. I could tell you the sky is blue, and you'd come back arguing it's only blue sometimes, and even then it's not technically blue according to some kind of color chart
How about this: Instead of arguing over what we disagree on, why don't we find what we agree on and end it. So what do we agree on? That Apple's move to give cases to those who needed it was a good one, and that anyone with this issue who continues to complain past their 30 day mark shouldn't, since they had a chance to get out.
Before the Chief Financial Officer of HTC makes a stupid comment, maybe he should read the manual to their own product next time.
No one gives a damn about Motorola, HTC, LG, Samsung, etc...that is why this has never been raised before. Apple has more success than the others so they'll do anything to knock them down a peg. What doesn't make sense is that the same thing happens with the original iPhone. That big piece of black plastic on the lower half is where the antenna is. Smother it and the bars go down. Same thing with an iPod Touch. The little piece of black plastic is where the Wi-Fi antenna is. Smother that and you will reduce the antenna's efficiency. So many people lack common sense.
Come on, you gotta feel good after letting that one go! whoo-weee! Clear the room, y'all!