People use a given piece of software, primarily because everyone else is using it. The more people who use something, the more that other people will use it. Rampant piracy creates an installed base that the people who always do pay for their software will naturally drift towards.
Well if all you are concerned about is creating markets then the door is wide open! Theft and larceny involve billions of grey- and black-market dollars, so let's throw our support behind these efforts. Because that is the logical end to that argument. And why the Asia and European regions see so much activity around piracy, theft and other questionable acitivity. The dark nasty side to all of this is loss of revenue to those who create the items being stolen, and the loss of resources to create them in the first place, not to mention the loss of motiviation to do so. Unless the developer has decided to simply release it for free - then you aren't really really pirating it are you.
yeah the people who pirate buy more music is rubbish. Why not take a country or two as examples? In Spain and Brazil everyone pirates. But guess what? Nobody buys. So much so in fact that both countries have almost no music industry anymore and bands have zero chance of being signed and zero chance of every making a living in music.
Actually they had other methods of attempted copy protection before this. Unfortunately it artificially increased the app size, and obviously a lot of people found a workaround. And app signing has NOTHING to do with being open as an OS, it never has been. But then again, I wouldn't expect you to understand that because it requires thinking in something other than irrational absolutes.
And you completely missed the entire point of my post which was Apple insider shouldn't be posting this trash because it has NOTHING to do with Apple except in passing, and the reason it was posted was to justify iOS, which, according to apple fans, requires no justification.
It's just another attempt at mud-slinging "journalism." I started posting here because Apple insider started showing up in my Android RSS feeds they're posting so much about it. So I came to read. They don't even attempt at looking at android, they only post stuff if they can somehow mock it, which.. I'll say it again, is completely pointless when you're on a site called APPLE INSIDER.
They should go back to posting apple news.
First and foremost who the heck are you to say what AI posts or doesn't post?? Google has placed itself as a direct competitor to the iOS/iPhone/iPod Touch/iPad ecosystem, not only in smartphones but just announced in the development of tablets as well. How the heck ISN'T that relevant??
And of course they had other tools they could bring to bear on the app piracy issue, including app signing - but in order to protect the PERCEPTION of openness they had to be circumspect around doing that since so much of their criticism of the iOS ecosystem depends heavily on that perception. But when needs demand it they are quick enough to slap down the controls that they should have used in the first place.
You are the one with irrationality issues here, not I. Your posts drip of Android fanboyism and yet you persist in trying to call out criticisms on what is an unabashedly Apple supporting site - talk about a lesson in futility - and yet here you are. Still.
What is that assessment of doing the samething over and over, yet expecting a different result? Indicates a questionable mental state doesn't it??
We get all kinds of Android RSS crawlers coming in here to defend the platform, who prefer to ignore the very real challenges of the platform, the real agenda driving the sugar-daddy Google that is pouring money into it just to build out their presence in mobile ad business - and once that is established will drop it as they have dropped so many other projects that they got bored with.
If the platform is as golden as you and the other fanboys keep claiming in here, where is the money? Where are the hoards of devs abandoning Apple app store to dev only for Android? Non-existent? Of course. You get a nice body of cross-over dev work - as they port their apps to Android AS WELL (not exclusively), because they want wider exposure - but if Google ever tried to insist on exclusivity by the devs - they would be laughed at! The Android app monetization for devs is pathetically underdeveloped and not functionally improving in the near-term.
I was a supporter of Android until Google bought it - and I knew precisely WHY they bought it and what it was going to be used for. But if I tried to call that out, I was shouted down by the giddy other supporters who only saw the money Google promised to throw at Android to make it a major player in the mobile market. You apparently are one of those who can't see the strings being pulled and what will happen, and it WILL happen, when Google has sucked all the advantage out of Android and then drops it for something better at making money for them. They ahve a track record of doing that - so it's not a matter of IF, but WHEN. And unless Android has enough internal fortitude to maintain itself in the competitive mobile markets it will go the way of Windows Mobile and the other players that have seen the impacts of RIM, Apple and the current Android influences.
Google don't care about its android store. They don't care about charging anyone for the Android license.
What do they care about? They want millions of devices running their OS so that they can feed those millions adverts and data mine those users and sell their data.
Just take a look at the Android ad prominently featured at the top of this supposedly Apple centric web site for confirmation.
Piracy problems undermine ALL platforms. No platform has solved the piracy problem, other than running software in the cloud. Google has been pushing cloud computing for years, and Apple and Microsoft are moving in that direction.
It's silly to argue about one failed DRM scheme being better than another failed DRM scheme.
AI glossed over this story in January, but several different iPhone developers implemented "phone home" functions and found that the App Store piracy rate was as high as 90%. Piracy rates increased with the cost of the app. The original (detailed) article is here, clearly both platforms have work to do...
Piracy problems undermine ALL platforms. No platform has solved the piracy problem, other than running software in the cloud. Google has been pushing cloud computing for years, and Apple and Microsoft are moving in that direction.
It's silly to argue about one failed DRM scheme being better than another failed DRM scheme.
AI glossed over this story in January, but several different iPhone developers implemented "phone home" functions and found that the App Store piracy rate was as high as 90%. Piracy rates increased with the cost of the app. The original (detailed) article is here, clearly both platforms have work to do...
ROTFLMAO.
Did you read the article you cited?
The piracy for iPhone is attributed entirely to jailbroken phones. Sort of disproves your theory that Apple's App Store has a big a problem as Android's. Those are all thefts that BYPASS the App Store - you're actually confirming the claim that jailbreaking is done at least party to steal apps, as well as confirming that Apple's App Store DOES work.
according to the latest posting - perhaps Flash isn't the only "bag of hurt" that Adobe creates for the mobile platforms.
My reading was that it was Apple's own PDF reader code that has the vulnerability, not Adobe. Unless it was something funky about the PDF format in and of itself.
On that topic, this Comex guy that found this exploit, and the one before it (Spirit) is extremely brilliant, and I suspect he may have inside knowledge from leaks inside Apple. It is the ongoing war, nothing is 100% secure. But if I were to trust a device, I would choose iOS over Android any day.
Open source is a bad choice even if your a geek. It's a world without software patents and laws, anyone can steal, but some get angry due to this and moan and complain and point you out at Linux World. It's a mess, even Linus Tolvalds infers that the reason he uses fedora is because the distro is "useable". In other words, many other distro's are not. There is problems with standardisation. There isn't one familiar interface for all Android phones, different phone companies change the UI (this would not happen if Android were closed). So what if your a developer? How do you know that your app is going to be on everyone's phone? You don't.
The piracy for iPhone is attributed entirely to jailbroken phones. Sort of disproves your theory that Apple's App Store has a big a problem as Android's. Those are all thefts that BYPASS the App Store - you're actually confirming the claim that jailbreaking is done at least party to steal apps, as well as confirming that Apple's App Store DOES work.
Dude, jailbreaking is as easy as installing an app. No skill required. Android thefts involve bypassing the Android Market too... so what's your point?
DRM is like door locks, they keep the honest honest and only slow down the determined crooks. My point is that if you're a developer, it's just as easy (and common) to get ripped off on iOS as it is Android.
Whine whine whine whine. If you don't like his writing, read your apple news elsewhere.
This is about an open dialog, not love it or leave it. The purpose of having a comments section on a news site is to allow all readers to provide feedback. Accusing another user of whining as you have is little more than an attempt at censorship.
it's a mess for sure. One reason that Apple development was attractive to me personally was to get away from the open source jungle that was Java (or rather Java frameworks). People would rave about something like Maven, a build tool. To me it was a badly documented command line piece of junk that took ages to run and was a nightmare to fix.
A controlled environment is preferable. Or rather a controlled environment that is good quality is preferable (compared with for example Oracle that's a cash driven consultant's dream but a mess for the rest)
... My point is that if you're a developer, it's just as easy (and common) to get ripped off on iOS as it is Android.
Easy, perhaps, although that point is certainly debatable, but unless you have some evidence to support your assertion that it's just as common, "to get ripped off on iOS as it is Android," and I don't think you do -- in fact, I think the evidence is to the contrary -- this is just baseless propaganda.
Because of the huge volume of real app sales in iTunes, Apple can attract the attention of developers well beyond its core Mac platform. Other vendors are working hard to copy Apple's success, but the company is also threatened by efforts to expand jailbreaking.
A recent exploit in Apple's PDF rendering software that allows a web-based crack of the iPhone's security system threatens to expose a large number of users to the ease of app piracy.
If the company does not act to better secure its iOS, it may lose its early lead in offering a viable market for developers and end up with the same listings of rarely updated, low quality hobbyist mobile software that makes up the majority of competing mobile software markets.
Personally, I only see one reason to have one's iPhone jailbreaked. To let the iPhone tether with an iPad. Even with an iPad WiFi + 3G I see no reason to pay for two different data packages.
Apple would limit the number of jailbreaked iPhones if they gave an application like MyWi access to the AppStore. Or if they simply allowed an iPhone to tether with an iPad in exactly the same way as it already tethers with a laptop.
Except it's not an article - "article" would imply balance which this piece lacks. .... As long as he posts rubbish like this, I'll feel entitled to call him on it.
But if you enjoy his offerings, then my opinions obviously won't change that.
Sorry but the more you rant, the more he sounds balanced and you sound like a hater.
Daniel has his own opinions, but he backs them up by referencing reviewable data. Most ranters just say,,, "My toy better..... yours is bad!!" :-)
Just a thought here. And as always feel free to post. But if your post sounds like a rant, that is how it and you will be received.
Easy, perhaps, although that point is certainly debatable, but unless you have some evidence to support your assertion that it's just as common, "to get ripped off on iOS as it is Android," and I don't think you do -- in fact, I think the evidence is to the contrary -- this is just baseless propaganda.
Sorry, I didn't see any evidence there that the problem is as common on iOS as on Android. In fact, I didn't see any evidence of anything there, just a lot of wild conjecture masquerading as analysis. Surely you have something more substantive that you can point to?
There is just one major flaw with Google's anti-piracy strategy: it conflicts with their upgrade strategy. This measure won't be able to be used on the vast majority of current Android devices, as they will never see software upgrades to future versions of Android. And developers are clearly going to use the anti-piracy functions (it would be stupid if they didn't) which locks out their software to at minimum the release which introduced this fix.
This is not true. This functionality has been included into Android Market client since version 1.5. Please, read the documentation before making such statements
There are some advantages to a closed system which a company protects. There are some advantages to open systems, which no company can protect. Buyer beware.
Sorry, I didn't see any evidence there that the problem is as common on iOS as on Android. In fact, I didn't see any evidence of anything there, just a lot of wild conjecture masquerading as analysis. Surely you have something more substantive that you can point to?
The article is just as substantive and factual as the AI article.
Any paid app can be easily found online and installed for free on a jailbroken phone. "Wrong" (morally) but true. Anyone with an iOS device and Google can do their own "research" and prove this 100% with less than an hour of effort. Taking the Apple stance and ignoring it doesn't make it less true, nor does it solve the problem.
Comments
Piracy can create markets too.
People use a given piece of software, primarily because everyone else is using it. The more people who use something, the more that other people will use it. Rampant piracy creates an installed base that the people who always do pay for their software will naturally drift towards.
Well if all you are concerned about is creating markets then the door is wide open! Theft and larceny involve billions of grey- and black-market dollars, so let's throw our support behind these efforts. Because that is the logical end to that argument. And why the Asia and European regions see so much activity around piracy, theft and other questionable acitivity. The dark nasty side to all of this is loss of revenue to those who create the items being stolen, and the loss of resources to create them in the first place, not to mention the loss of motiviation to do so. Unless the developer has decided to simply release it for free - then you aren't really really pirating it are you.
Actually they had other methods of attempted copy protection before this. Unfortunately it artificially increased the app size, and obviously a lot of people found a workaround. And app signing has NOTHING to do with being open as an OS, it never has been. But then again, I wouldn't expect you to understand that because it requires thinking in something other than irrational absolutes.
And you completely missed the entire point of my post which was Apple insider shouldn't be posting this trash because it has NOTHING to do with Apple except in passing, and the reason it was posted was to justify iOS, which, according to apple fans, requires no justification.
It's just another attempt at mud-slinging "journalism." I started posting here because Apple insider started showing up in my Android RSS feeds they're posting so much about it. So I came to read. They don't even attempt at looking at android, they only post stuff if they can somehow mock it, which.. I'll say it again, is completely pointless when you're on a site called APPLE INSIDER.
They should go back to posting apple news.
First and foremost who the heck are you to say what AI posts or doesn't post?? Google has placed itself as a direct competitor to the iOS/iPhone/iPod Touch/iPad ecosystem, not only in smartphones but just announced in the development of tablets as well. How the heck ISN'T that relevant??
And of course they had other tools they could bring to bear on the app piracy issue, including app signing - but in order to protect the PERCEPTION of openness they had to be circumspect around doing that since so much of their criticism of the iOS ecosystem depends heavily on that perception. But when needs demand it they are quick enough to slap down the controls that they should have used in the first place.
You are the one with irrationality issues here, not I. Your posts drip of Android fanboyism and yet you persist in trying to call out criticisms on what is an unabashedly Apple supporting site - talk about a lesson in futility - and yet here you are. Still.
What is that assessment of doing the samething over and over, yet expecting a different result? Indicates a questionable mental state doesn't it??
We get all kinds of Android RSS crawlers coming in here to defend the platform, who prefer to ignore the very real challenges of the platform, the real agenda driving the sugar-daddy Google that is pouring money into it just to build out their presence in mobile ad business - and once that is established will drop it as they have dropped so many other projects that they got bored with.
If the platform is as golden as you and the other fanboys keep claiming in here, where is the money? Where are the hoards of devs abandoning Apple app store to dev only for Android? Non-existent? Of course. You get a nice body of cross-over dev work - as they port their apps to Android AS WELL (not exclusively), because they want wider exposure - but if Google ever tried to insist on exclusivity by the devs - they would be laughed at! The Android app monetization for devs is pathetically underdeveloped and not functionally improving in the near-term.
I was a supporter of Android until Google bought it - and I knew precisely WHY they bought it and what it was going to be used for. But if I tried to call that out, I was shouted down by the giddy other supporters who only saw the money Google promised to throw at Android to make it a major player in the mobile market. You apparently are one of those who can't see the strings being pulled and what will happen, and it WILL happen, when Google has sucked all the advantage out of Android and then drops it for something better at making money for them. They ahve a track record of doing that - so it's not a matter of IF, but WHEN. And unless Android has enough internal fortitude to maintain itself in the competitive mobile markets it will go the way of Windows Mobile and the other players that have seen the impacts of RIM, Apple and the current Android influences.
Google don't care about its android store. They don't care about charging anyone for the Android license.
What do they care about? They want millions of devices running their OS so that they can feed those millions adverts and data mine those users and sell their data.
Just take a look at the Android ad prominently featured at the top of this supposedly Apple centric web site for confirmation.
It's silly to argue about one failed DRM scheme being better than another failed DRM scheme.
AI glossed over this story in January, but several different iPhone developers implemented "phone home" functions and found that the App Store piracy rate was as high as 90%. Piracy rates increased with the cost of the app. The original (detailed) article is here, clearly both platforms have work to do...
Piracy problems undermine ALL platforms. No platform has solved the piracy problem, other than running software in the cloud. Google has been pushing cloud computing for years, and Apple and Microsoft are moving in that direction.
It's silly to argue about one failed DRM scheme being better than another failed DRM scheme.
AI glossed over this story in January, but several different iPhone developers implemented "phone home" functions and found that the App Store piracy rate was as high as 90%. Piracy rates increased with the cost of the app. The original (detailed) article is here, clearly both platforms have work to do...
ROTFLMAO.
Did you read the article you cited?
The piracy for iPhone is attributed entirely to jailbroken phones. Sort of disproves your theory that Apple's App Store has a big a problem as Android's. Those are all thefts that BYPASS the App Store - you're actually confirming the claim that jailbreaking is done at least party to steal apps, as well as confirming that Apple's App Store DOES work.
according to the latest posting - perhaps Flash isn't the only "bag of hurt" that Adobe creates for the mobile platforms.
My reading was that it was Apple's own PDF reader code that has the vulnerability, not Adobe. Unless it was something funky about the PDF format in and of itself.
On that topic, this Comex guy that found this exploit, and the one before it (Spirit) is extremely brilliant, and I suspect he may have inside knowledge from leaks inside Apple. It is the ongoing war, nothing is 100% secure. But if I were to trust a device, I would choose iOS over Android any day.
ROTFLMAO.
Did you read the article you cited?
The piracy for iPhone is attributed entirely to jailbroken phones. Sort of disproves your theory that Apple's App Store has a big a problem as Android's. Those are all thefts that BYPASS the App Store - you're actually confirming the claim that jailbreaking is done at least party to steal apps, as well as confirming that Apple's App Store DOES work.
Dude, jailbreaking is as easy as installing an app. No skill required. Android thefts involve bypassing the Android Market too... so what's your point?
DRM is like door locks, they keep the honest honest and only slow down the determined crooks. My point is that if you're a developer, it's just as easy (and common) to get ripped off on iOS as it is Android.
Whine whine whine whine. If you don't like his writing, read your apple news elsewhere.
This is about an open dialog, not love it or leave it. The purpose of having a comments section on a news site is to allow all readers to provide feedback. Accusing another user of whining as you have is little more than an attempt at censorship.
A controlled environment is preferable. Or rather a controlled environment that is good quality is preferable (compared with for example Oracle that's a cash driven consultant's dream but a mess for the rest)
... My point is that if you're a developer, it's just as easy (and common) to get ripped off on iOS as it is Android.
Easy, perhaps, although that point is certainly debatable, but unless you have some evidence to support your assertion that it's just as common, "to get ripped off on iOS as it is Android," and I don't think you do -- in fact, I think the evidence is to the contrary -- this is just baseless propaganda.
The jailbreak threat to Apple's App Store
Because of the huge volume of real app sales in iTunes, Apple can attract the attention of developers well beyond its core Mac platform. Other vendors are working hard to copy Apple's success, but the company is also threatened by efforts to expand jailbreaking.
A recent exploit in Apple's PDF rendering software that allows a web-based crack of the iPhone's security system threatens to expose a large number of users to the ease of app piracy.
If the company does not act to better secure its iOS, it may lose its early lead in offering a viable market for developers and end up with the same listings of rarely updated, low quality hobbyist mobile software that makes up the majority of competing mobile software markets.
[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]
Personally, I only see one reason to have one's iPhone jailbreaked. To let the iPhone tether with an iPad. Even with an iPad WiFi + 3G I see no reason to pay for two different data packages.
Apple would limit the number of jailbreaked iPhones if they gave an application like MyWi access to the AppStore. Or if they simply allowed an iPhone to tether with an iPad in exactly the same way as it already tethers with a laptop.
Except it's not an article - "article" would imply balance which this piece lacks. .... As long as he posts rubbish like this, I'll feel entitled to call him on it.
But if you enjoy his offerings, then my opinions obviously won't change that.
Sorry but the more you rant, the more he sounds balanced and you sound like a hater.
Daniel has his own opinions, but he backs them up by referencing reviewable data. Most ranters just say,,, "My toy better..... yours is bad!!" :-)
Just a thought here. And as always feel free to post. But if your post sounds like a rant, that is how it and you will be received.
en
Easy, perhaps, although that point is certainly debatable, but unless you have some evidence to support your assertion that it's just as common, "to get ripped off on iOS as it is Android," and I don't think you do -- in fact, I think the evidence is to the contrary -- this is just baseless propaganda.
Several popular App Store developers did their own research and posted the findings, so I would hardly call it baseless propaganda.
Since you missed the link the first time, I made this entire reply a link to the article I originally referred to. I will also post the URL text at the end.
The article discussed App Store piracy in very clear and specific terms, so I see no need to try and regurgitate it for you.
http://247wallst.com/2010/01/13/appl...ion-to-piracy/
Several popular App Store developers did their own research and posted the findings, so I would hardly call it baseless propaganda.
Since you missed the link the first time, I made this entire reply a link to the article I originally referred to. I will also post the URL text at the end.
The article discussed App Store piracy in very clear and specific terms, so I see no need to try and regurgitate it for you.
http://247wallst.com/2010/01/13/appl...ion-to-piracy/
Sorry, I didn't see any evidence there that the problem is as common on iOS as on Android. In fact, I didn't see any evidence of anything there, just a lot of wild conjecture masquerading as analysis. Surely you have something more substantive that you can point to?
There is just one major flaw with Google's anti-piracy strategy: it conflicts with their upgrade strategy. This measure won't be able to be used on the vast majority of current Android devices, as they will never see software upgrades to future versions of Android. And developers are clearly going to use the anti-piracy functions (it would be stupid if they didn't) which locks out their software to at minimum the release which introduced this fix.
This is not true. This functionality has been included into Android Market client since version 1.5. Please, read the documentation before making such statements
Sorry, I didn't see any evidence there that the problem is as common on iOS as on Android. In fact, I didn't see any evidence of anything there, just a lot of wild conjecture masquerading as analysis. Surely you have something more substantive that you can point to?
The article is just as substantive and factual as the AI article.
Any paid app can be easily found online and installed for free on a jailbroken phone. "Wrong" (morally) but true. Anyone with an iOS device and Google can do their own "research" and prove this 100% with less than an hour of effort. Taking the Apple stance and ignoring it doesn't make it less true, nor does it solve the problem.
ROTFLMAO.
Did you read the article you cited?
The piracy for iPhone is attributed entirely to jailbroken phones...
Which line in the article said that?
The article pointed out that only about 10% of iPhones were jailbroken (many more now for sure), and that only 40% of those had pirated apps.
If the piracy is as widespread as the article claimed, it is hard to explain how 4% of all phones can account for it.
according to the latest posting - perhaps Flash isn't the only "bag of hurt" that Adobe creates for the mobile platforms.
It was my understanding from the link you cite that the software at fault was Apple's. In any case, Apple put the buggy code in Safari, not Adobe.