Do employees steal so much in America that these kind of practices have to be put into place.
I would have to say, in my experience, yes. Americans have terribly sticky fingers. And I am an American. My dad owns his own business and he has been robbed by employees on numerous occasions. To his credit, he doesn't punish his honest employees and I am not sure it has had much of an impact on how he treats employees, just how closely he watches the books.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic
As a manager of 12 programmers I can really care less how many personal phone calls an employee makes in a work day, how many breaks they have, if they come in late or leave early. They all have a set time in which to complete a project, if that timeline isn't met then there will be consequences. I never understood the need for micromanagement of projects or a drill sergeant attitude towards the employees personal needs. If I was to have such an employee who requires that kind of attention to get his or hers work done then as far as I'm concern they have no place on my team. I'm not a den mother, nor do I have time for such things. As long as the work is done in a timely manner and adhere's to my quality I really can care less what the employee does. Granted an Apple Store is a completely different environment then that of a office environment. Do you run a retail shop?
I work for a company that is gearing up to handle sensitive data and the software is designed to track the data leaving our computers. So if someone grabs a bunch of email addresses or encrypted credit cards, we will have a record that it happened. Another feature of the same software is productivity tracking that simply logs applications and web sites and can be used to generate reports of how much time employees spend doing things that are productive versus things that are unproductive.
So retail environments are different and office environments can differ as well depending on the industry or function. I can't help but notice that the people that are the most upset by the software are the people that have something to hide. Most people with nothing to worry about seem more indifferent. No matter how I feel about the software and what it does, there's no denying that reality.
As a manager of 12 programmers I can really care less how many personal phone calls an employee makes in a work day, how many breaks they have, if they come in late or leave early. They all have a set time in which to complete a project, if that timeline isn't met then there will be consequences. I never understood the need for micromanagement of projects or a drill sergeant attitude towards the employees personal needs. If I was to have such an employee who requires that kind of attention to get his or hers work done then as far as I'm concern they have no place on my team. I'm not a den mother, nor do I have time for such things. As long as the work is done in a timely manner and adhere's to my quality I really can care less what the employee does. Granted an Apple Store is a completely different environment then that of a office environment. Do you run a retail shop?
It depends on the environment. In a project-based work environment, it is often beneficial to be relaxed and allow people to work how they work, as long as the project gets done well and on time. I get where you're coming from.
In other environments? Sometimes strict is the way to go. I don't allow warehouse employees to even have cellphones on them inside the building, unless they are a supervisor. Why? Because too many people were abusing the privilege and goofing off. Unfortunate, but in a non-project environment, I need people working constantly, not being distracted by their phone.
It's like children. Some can be reasoned with or just need a certain look, others need a (non-violent) whack on the bum.
This conversation is really quite interesting, I've learned a lot about how people in America view their minimum wage employees. I am so blessed that I was able to go to a really good university and especially have a job where checking bags isn't necessary. As a female who carries a purse I couldn't imagine the humiliation of a male security person rummaging threw it for contraband or stolen goods. It's so demeaning, if you cannot trust your employees then why should the employee trust their employer. The Apple Store has many security cameras, if something comes up missing why not just check the video footage. Do employees steal so much in America that these kind of practices have to be put into place. I personally could never work for an Apple Store after hearing about this, it's absolutely horrendous and banning personal purses or backpacks probably wouldn't slow down a would be thief anyway, as iPads, iPods, iPhones, software, accessories, ect. are small enough to conceal on ones person. This whole exercise is not only counterproductive but probably destroys the integrity of the employer in the employees eyes. I'm sorry for not following most of your views here but this sucks and the employees should be awarded any damages they are seeking. It's not like Apple is hurting for money, I would hope that employee theft is so rare that Apple would rather have a happy employee then to punish them all because of the transgressions of a very few. I just don't see the benefit here for either party.
You think the plaintiffs should win because Apple searched their bags and you don't like it? This is SOP for retailers. The issue is whether they should have been paid for their time; I think they're exaggerating on the amount of time allegedly wasted.
"Minimum wage employees" or other entry level employees generally don't have much of a relationship with their employee. At least for me, while I value my employees, there's some that are, no offense intended, just "grunts". They have an easily replaceable job task. I'm not going to bend over backwards and let them get away with crap, whereas I might be more lenient with a more trusted, long standing employee in a more critical position who has built up good will.
FYI, bag searches are common everywhere in America. Pretty much at any public place.
[quote name="Dickprinter" url="/t/158765/apple-retail-workers-file-class-action-suit-claiming-lost-wages-over-bag-searches/160#post_2371773"]My first inclination is to simply say F-you, but I won't stoop to your level.[/QUOTE]
No, I was stooping to yours, as you decided to sling insults.
[QUOTE]I don't expect you to know this (and you obviously don't) but MOST women's clothing DO NOT HAVE POCKETS.[/QUOTE]
And where do you live, that you believe this? I'd agree with you if you lived somewhere women only wore dresses, but I see roughly one dress a week. The rest of the time it's pants. Pants with…
…
I don't even need to finish that sentence. You know exactly what word comes next.
I truly don't know what your problem is, but it's [I]your[/I] problem. You want to pretend to live in a fantasy world where pockets don't exist, that's fine.
No, I was stooping to yours, as you decided to sling insults.
And where do you live, that you believe this? I'd agree with you if you lived somewhere women only wore dresses, but I see roughly one dress a week. The rest of the time it's pants. Pants with…
…
I don't even need to finish that sentence. You know exactly what word comes next.
I truly don't know what your problem is, but it's your problem. You want to pretend to live in a fantasy world where pockets don't exist, that's fine.
And where do you live, that you believe this? I'd agree with you if you lived somewhere women only wore dresses, but I see roughly one dress a week. The rest of the time it's pants. Pants with…
…
I don't even need to finish that sentence. You know exactly what word comes next.
I truly don't know what your problem is, but it's your problem. You want to pretend to live in a fantasy world where pockets don't exist, that's fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark
Most women dress pants don't have useful pockets.
You're never wrong, see only in black or white, and, with your state of mind, couldn't be bothered with noticing woman's clothing. It's pretty obvious that you are not married and have no girlfriend. It's ok, all you had to say is that your have no experience or knowledge of women's clothing.
I live in New Jersey. I know and see women's fashion, I have two daughters, two female employees and many, many female customers/clients. Just like Jungmark said, the pockets on (20-50 year old) women's clothing, especially pants, are small, tight and simply not usable. They wouldn't even envelop a driver's license. Do you live in Oshkosh where all the women wear Carharts?
Thanks for being difficult and not engaging in good debate. The only viewpoint you see is your own and have a real problem with comprehension because you didn't understand anything I wrote. You should learn how to play in the sandbox a little better.
BTW, you still haven't offered a practical solution to this situation. A simple "I don't know" would've been a lot better than your keyboard diarrhea, which, honestly, only made you look ignorant and unaware.
It's pretty obvious that you are not married and have no girlfriend. It's ok, all you had to say is that your have no experience or knowledge of women's clothing.
He's clearly clueless as to what women like / need to carry around, and their clothing.
So either he's a teen or a bachelor.
Granted, I know a few women who sometimes manage to shove a phone or keys into some of their slacker jeans, but no wallet or id.
Nor are jeans office wear... the latter of which almost always will have no useful pockets. Even women's coats and jackets usually just have pocket outlines for show.
You think the plaintiffs should win because Apple searched their bags and you don't like it? This is SOP for retailers. The issue is whether they should have been paid for their time; I think they're exaggerating on the amount of time allegedly wasted.
"Minimum wage employees" or other entry level employees generally don't have much of a relationship with their employee. At least for me, while I value my employees, there's some that are, no offense intended, just "grunts". They have an easily replaceable job task. I'm not going to bend over backwards and let them get away with crap, whereas I might be more lenient with a more trusted, long standing employee in a more critical position who has built up good will.
FYI, bag searches are common everywhere in America. Pretty much at any public place.
I read the article. I think many people just skimmed it, but it contained both a range and an "up to" qualifier, similar to the way Apple describes machine specs. These guys check out with a manager, not a security guard. If the manager is occupied, they probably wait longer. When it came time to write these issues in the form of litigation, they had to quantify losses in some way. Personally I think bag searches are ridiculous. Hopefully this gets enough media coverage to cost Apple a number of strong applicants. At that point maybe they will reconsider their draconian policies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendergast
It depends on the environment. In a project-based work environment, it is often beneficial to be relaxed and allow people to work how they work, as long as the project gets done well and on time. I get where you're coming from.
In other environments? Sometimes strict is the way to go. I don't allow warehouse employees to even have cellphones on them inside the building, unless they are a supervisor. Why? Because too many people were abusing the privilege and goofing off. Unfortunate, but in a non-project environment, I need people working constantly, not being distracted by their phone.
It's like children. Some can be reasoned with or just need a certain look, others need a (non-violent) whack on the bum.
This is an issue of work culture like I mentioned. If it's positive, they care that things are completed on time without excessive mistakes.
He's clearly clueless as to what women like / need to carry around, and their clothing.
So either he's a teen or a bachelor.
Granted, I know a few women who sometimes manage to shove a phone or keys into some of their slacker jeans, but no wallet or id.
Nor are jeans office wear... the latter of which almost always will have no useful pockets. Even women's coats and jackets usually just have pocket outlines for show.
Thank you for substantiating my argument. I couldn't be more concise or paint a clearer picture of my claim.
I read the article. I think many people just skimmed it, but it contained both a range and an "up to" qualifier, similar to the way Apple describes machine specs. These guys check out with a manager, not a security guard. If the manager is occupied, they probably wait longer. When it came time to write these issues in the form of litigation, they had to quantify losses in some way. Personally I think bag searches are ridiculous. Hopefully this gets enough media coverage to cost Apple a number of strong applicants. At that point maybe they will reconsider their draconian policies.
Apple has "steal-able" products. They should check bags. Do you think Apple is the only one that does this?
Its their own fault you know. Theyve spent so many years just shoving everything in a G D purse that nobody bothers to give them useable pockets. Except carhart, or levis maybe. But why is there talk of womens pockets when there women not making sandwiches out there?
All you do is post baseless rants with misdirected anger and baseless conclusions. Perhaps for once you could explain your stance rather than post garbage.
what more is there to explain than what I wrote already in several posts? What don't you understand?
No one works 100% of the time and much of that is not due to not having any work, but the person wanting to talk to others, be lazy, check email, text friends, etc. Which in and of itself I was not complaining about. However, when the same people then complain that Apple takes 5 minutes out of their time to check bags, when they took on average an hour of Apple's time is very hypocritical.
What they are saying is 'I can stand around talking and texting and emailing when on the clock, knowing I should be doing something else, but you don't have the right to take any additional time from me'.
All you do is post baseless rants with misdirected anger and baseless conclusions. Perhaps for once you could explain your stance rather than post garbage.
I'm sure Apple employees are far removed from the rest of the country, but here are just a few links. Most research shows employees waste 1.5 - 2 hours per day!
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic
Do employees steal so much in America that these kind of practices have to be put into place.
I would have to say, in my experience, yes. Americans have terribly sticky fingers. And I am an American. My dad owns his own business and he has been robbed by employees on numerous occasions. To his credit, he doesn't punish his honest employees and I am not sure it has had much of an impact on how he treats employees, just how closely he watches the books.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic
As a manager of 12 programmers I can really care less how many personal phone calls an employee makes in a work day, how many breaks they have, if they come in late or leave early. They all have a set time in which to complete a project, if that timeline isn't met then there will be consequences. I never understood the need for micromanagement of projects or a drill sergeant attitude towards the employees personal needs. If I was to have such an employee who requires that kind of attention to get his or hers work done then as far as I'm concern they have no place on my team. I'm not a den mother, nor do I have time for such things. As long as the work is done in a timely manner and adhere's to my quality I really can care less what the employee does. Granted an Apple Store is a completely different environment then that of a office environment. Do you run a retail shop?
I work for a company that is gearing up to handle sensitive data and the software is designed to track the data leaving our computers. So if someone grabs a bunch of email addresses or encrypted credit cards, we will have a record that it happened. Another feature of the same software is productivity tracking that simply logs applications and web sites and can be used to generate reports of how much time employees spend doing things that are productive versus things that are unproductive.
So retail environments are different and office environments can differ as well depending on the industry or function. I can't help but notice that the people that are the most upset by the software are the people that have something to hide. Most people with nothing to worry about seem more indifferent. No matter how I feel about the software and what it does, there's no denying that reality.
It depends on the environment. In a project-based work environment, it is often beneficial to be relaxed and allow people to work how they work, as long as the project gets done well and on time. I get where you're coming from.
In other environments? Sometimes strict is the way to go. I don't allow warehouse employees to even have cellphones on them inside the building, unless they are a supervisor. Why? Because too many people were abusing the privilege and goofing off. Unfortunate, but in a non-project environment, I need people working constantly, not being distracted by their phone.
It's like children. Some can be reasoned with or just need a certain look, others need a (non-violent) whack on the bum.
You think the plaintiffs should win because Apple searched their bags and you don't like it? This is SOP for retailers. The issue is whether they should have been paid for their time; I think they're exaggerating on the amount of time allegedly wasted.
"Minimum wage employees" or other entry level employees generally don't have much of a relationship with their employee. At least for me, while I value my employees, there's some that are, no offense intended, just "grunts". They have an easily replaceable job task. I'm not going to bend over backwards and let them get away with crap, whereas I might be more lenient with a more trusted, long standing employee in a more critical position who has built up good will.
FYI, bag searches are common everywhere in America. Pretty much at any public place.
No, I was stooping to yours, as you decided to sling insults.
[QUOTE]I don't expect you to know this (and you obviously don't) but MOST women's clothing DO NOT HAVE POCKETS.[/QUOTE]
And where do you live, that you believe this? I'd agree with you if you lived somewhere women only wore dresses, but I see roughly one dress a week. The rest of the time it's pants. Pants with…
…
I don't even need to finish that sentence. You know exactly what word comes next.
I truly don't know what your problem is, but it's [I]your[/I] problem. You want to pretend to live in a fantasy world where pockets don't exist, that's fine.
Most women dress pants don't have useful pockets.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
And where do you live, that you believe this? I'd agree with you if you lived somewhere women only wore dresses, but I see roughly one dress a week. The rest of the time it's pants. Pants with…
…
I don't even need to finish that sentence. You know exactly what word comes next.
I truly don't know what your problem is, but it's your problem. You want to pretend to live in a fantasy world where pockets don't exist, that's fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark
Most women dress pants don't have useful pockets.
You're never wrong, see only in black or white, and, with your state of mind, couldn't be bothered with noticing woman's clothing. It's pretty obvious that you are not married and have no girlfriend. It's ok, all you had to say is that your have no experience or knowledge of women's clothing.
I live in New Jersey. I know and see women's fashion, I have two daughters, two female employees and many, many female customers/clients. Just like Jungmark said, the pockets on (20-50 year old) women's clothing, especially pants, are small, tight and simply not usable. They wouldn't even envelop a driver's license. Do you live in Oshkosh where all the women wear Carharts?
Thanks for being difficult and not engaging in good debate. The only viewpoint you see is your own and have a real problem with comprehension because you didn't understand anything I wrote. You should learn how to play in the sandbox a little better.
BTW, you still haven't offered a practical solution to this situation. A simple "I don't know" would've been a lot better than your keyboard diarrhea, which, honestly, only made you look ignorant and unaware.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dickprinter
It's pretty obvious that you are not married and have no girlfriend. It's ok, all you had to say is that your have no experience or knowledge of women's clothing.
He's clearly clueless as to what women like / need to carry around, and their clothing.
So either he's a teen or a bachelor.
Granted, I know a few women who sometimes manage to shove a phone or keys into some of their slacker jeans, but no wallet or id.
Nor are jeans office wear... the latter of which almost always will have no useful pockets. Even women's coats and jackets usually just have pocket outlines for show.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendergast
You think the plaintiffs should win because Apple searched their bags and you don't like it? This is SOP for retailers. The issue is whether they should have been paid for their time; I think they're exaggerating on the amount of time allegedly wasted.
"Minimum wage employees" or other entry level employees generally don't have much of a relationship with their employee. At least for me, while I value my employees, there's some that are, no offense intended, just "grunts". They have an easily replaceable job task. I'm not going to bend over backwards and let them get away with crap, whereas I might be more lenient with a more trusted, long standing employee in a more critical position who has built up good will.
FYI, bag searches are common everywhere in America. Pretty much at any public place.
I read the article. I think many people just skimmed it, but it contained both a range and an "up to" qualifier, similar to the way Apple describes machine specs. These guys check out with a manager, not a security guard. If the manager is occupied, they probably wait longer. When it came time to write these issues in the form of litigation, they had to quantify losses in some way. Personally I think bag searches are ridiculous. Hopefully this gets enough media coverage to cost Apple a number of strong applicants. At that point maybe they will reconsider their draconian policies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendergast
It depends on the environment. In a project-based work environment, it is often beneficial to be relaxed and allow people to work how they work, as long as the project gets done well and on time. I get where you're coming from.
In other environments? Sometimes strict is the way to go. I don't allow warehouse employees to even have cellphones on them inside the building, unless they are a supervisor. Why? Because too many people were abusing the privilege and goofing off. Unfortunate, but in a non-project environment, I need people working constantly, not being distracted by their phone.
It's like children. Some can be reasoned with or just need a certain look, others need a (non-violent) whack on the bum.
This is an issue of work culture like I mentioned. If it's positive, they care that things are completed on time without excessive mistakes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling
He's clearly clueless as to what women like / need to carry around, and their clothing.
So either he's a teen or a bachelor.
Granted, I know a few women who sometimes manage to shove a phone or keys into some of their slacker jeans, but no wallet or id.
Nor are jeans office wear... the latter of which almost always will have no useful pockets. Even women's coats and jackets usually just have pocket outlines for show.
Thank you for substantiating my argument. I couldn't be more concise or paint a clearer picture of my claim.
Apple has "steal-able" products. They should check bags. Do you think Apple is the only one that does this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark
Apple has "steal-able" products. They should check bags. Do you think Apple is the only one that does this?
Not at all. That doesn't make it any better. I shouldn't really have to say this, but which retailer does it doesn't make a difference to me.
Ignorance sure is bliss, huh? You must be in nirvana.
That won't work; they're not sweatproof.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm
Not at all. That doesn't make it any better. I shouldn't really have to say this, but which retailer does it doesn't make a difference to me.
So what are your thoughts for a solution?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Ignorance sure is bliss, huh? You must be in nirvana.
That won't work; they're not sweatproof.
Tell us, oh great one. Since I'm so dumb, I'm asking you to please spell it out for me. Then, I promise, I'll "shut up and go away"
Already did. Actually read my posts, please. :no:
That's Hindi for what you already quoted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm
All you do is post baseless rants with misdirected anger and baseless conclusions. Perhaps for once you could explain your stance rather than post garbage.
what more is there to explain than what I wrote already in several posts? What don't you understand?
No one works 100% of the time and much of that is not due to not having any work, but the person wanting to talk to others, be lazy, check email, text friends, etc. Which in and of itself I was not complaining about. However, when the same people then complain that Apple takes 5 minutes out of their time to check bags, when they took on average an hour of Apple's time is very hypocritical.
What they are saying is 'I can stand around talking and texting and emailing when on the clock, knowing I should be doing something else, but you don't have the right to take any additional time from me'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm
All you do is post baseless rants with misdirected anger and baseless conclusions. Perhaps for once you could explain your stance rather than post garbage.
I'm sure Apple employees are far removed from the rest of the country, but here are just a few links. Most research shows employees waste 1.5 - 2 hours per day!
http://www.forbes.com/sites/cherylsnappconner/2012/07/17/employees-really-do-waste-time-at-work/
http://www.gallup.com/poll/28618/US-Workers-Say-They-Waste-About-Hour-Work-Each-Day.aspx
http://www.salary.com/wasting-time-at-work-2012/
http://libgig.com/node/1011