Just look what happenned to portable gaming. I expect the same turn of events.
Most won't upgrade every year. But maybe every 2 or 3 years. Still much more frequently than an Xbox.
Developers have figured out how to do this with iPhone/iPad. They will do the same with AppleTv.
You really have no clue of the overall gaming industry at all. I'm sure the gaming on the new Apple TV will do well for light games but in no way will it cut into the console/PC gaming market. There are leagues going on right now with millions of dollars up for grabs that teams compete for. This along with people watching people play games will and is only going to get bigger. Games have $200-$500 million dollar budgets. There is no way these games can or will play on the Apple TV.
Gaming is way bigger than you believe it is and will soon become like people going to sports arenas, which it already is in some cases.
Look, I'm not saying that the Apple TV and the gaming coming with it won't be successful. I know it will. Just in a different way than you are stating.
A very nice thing about the iOS app ecosystem is that obsolescence is a gradual process rather than complete and immediate. With consoles, when a new one comes out, all your old games are landfill. With iOS, only new high-end games require the latest & greatest. Over a few years, more and more apps require the latest, but those that don't tend to target the lowest possible OS to maximize potential customers. That longevity in aTV will appeal to casual gamers & app users.
Just look what happenned to portable gaming. I expect the same turn of events.
Again, your assumption is based in a device you haven't seen.
Quote:
Most won't upgrade every year. But maybe every 2 or 3 years. Still much more frequently than an Xbox.
Developers have figured out how to do this with iPhone/iPad. They will do the same with AppleTv.
You made another assumption, that they will replace the device every 2-3 years. And if that's the case, why is that better for me as a customer, to have the replace my ATV every 2-3 years while I can keep my console for 5-6 years?
And for developers, is still better to have a platform for many years that one that changes frequently.
The success of the Apple TV as a gaming platform will be tied to the ability of developers to create games that are fun and entertaining to play, not on developers creating eye-candy that looks pretty. And given the massive resource pool of iOS developers, and the ways they were able to bring new ideas to the iPhone and iPad it's pretty much a given they're going to repeat that with the Apple TV.
I think the console gaming market seriously underestimates the talent pool of iOS developers.
Sony and MS already have programs for indie developers, and I have seen many great games from both. I don't see them underestimating those developers.
Likely won't affect PS4 or XBox1 sales too much, but it could kill Nintendo. Casual gaming was their niche.
It might but that depends on the appeal of Nintendo's original games' content. Nintendo has a history of that. Apple has none. It's an apps store largely filled with junk.
I just don't see why someone would choose planted themselves in front of a TV when they can have a perfectly adequate casual game experience with mobile devices. Of course much might depend on controller capabilities for an Apple TV and game pricing.
In short they aren't going to affect XBox 1 nor PS4 nor PC gamers. I don't even think they will affect a new simpler Nintendo machine.
It can't hurt I suppose. I just don't think gaming will be as big a deal as people think. We shall see.
Apple TV needs content, new capabilities and an interesting App store.
Unlike the traditional consoles who only update their hardware every 6-10 years, Apple can bring out new hardware for the AppleTV each year. And because of economies of scale this won't even cost Apple much.
Eventually the Xbox/PS will be just like PC gaming is today. Only for the hardcore gamers.
Just for sharts and gargles, the other day I decided to set up a P.O. form in pages instead of InDesign to see how quickly and easily I could duplicate my InDesign template. In about a half hour I was able to get it pretty damn close. Pages, I think is immensely underrated. The only thing really holding it back are the master page and multi-page features and maybe a handful of advanced typesetting features. Otherwise it's quite capable.
Contractors, Project managers, Architects & engineers as well as artists have a great need for this & a serious "Pen" interface. Your comments show ignorance as enterprise areas where Apple has focused for decades combined w/IBM sales & Business software is huge. You can not use a laptop w/no touch screen for field work! mrphil49
Apple is light years behind in the stylus front. Many have pleaded for a proper stylus for years. You cannot be serious in education or scientific note taking without it. The artistic side is an already obvious need. The argument against the stylus is that it only appealed to niche needs. Meanwhile both Samsung and Microsoft have had proper stylus support for ages. In particular, Microsoft has got it right with their Surface line. The stylus for Apple might be nothing more than than a hobby for years. Wake me up when they get software of the calibre of PDF Annotator.
As for gaming on the ATV, I'm excited about the possibilities and I don't think the market is binary where you can only enjoy one or the other (games consoles), it seems there is quite enough room for both to be very happy (at least for awhile). I also think it's naive to think this won't have any impact at all on the gaming market as whole, affecting both casual and more immersive gaming options.
Some things I wonder are:
How long do we expect the gap between games consoles and devices such as the ATV to be a gap that is substantial, meaning a gap which justifies in differentiation the existence of two separate market segments addressed by two different devices?
Is it not feasible to imagine a world where a future ATV would rival the graphics capabilities (and storage, speed, experience, etc.) of a dedicated games console? At least rival near enough such that differentiation is so little that it becomes less important to more and more people such that games consoles struggle to deliver an experience that warrants a completely separate device different than the one on which you watch your programmes and monitor and control your home thingys (alarm, heating/cooling, lights, etc.), and whatever other greatness clever developers create for this device??
Just seems the advancements in these devices each year close the gap more and more and at some point is it not logical to assume they will meet?
In other words, what features/capabilities/experience do we expect future games consoles to deliver above and beyond a future ATV that would warrant a whole separate market segment and separate device?
Just for sharts and gargles, the other day I decided to set up a P.O. form in pages instead of InDesign to see how quickly and easily I could duplicate my InDesign template. In about a half hour I was able to get it pretty damn close. Pages, I think is immensely underrated. The only thing really holding it back are the master page and multi-page features and maybe a handful of advanced typesetting features. Otherwise it's quite capable.
Why would an organization use Pages when they could go the free Google docs route or Office 365? Apple has not got its iCloud act together. It is overly complicated and woefully lacking in servicing its own hardware clients, especially consumers.
Apple has lost serious momentum in education. It is of course still very popular but mostly among older aging faculty. Fortunately they still have access to Office 365 but then a school can save far more money standardizing on cloud products from Google. Going all the way back to mac.com Apple has never had its cloud act together. They need a whole new team on it and some serious free offerings to it customers.
You really have no clue of the overall gaming industry at all. I'm sure the gaming on the new Apple TV will do well for light games but in no way will it cut into the console/PC gaming market. There are leagues going on right now with millions of dollars up for grabs that teams compete for. This along with people watching people play games will and is only going to get bigger. Games have $200-$500 million dollar budgets. There is no way these games can or will play on the Apple TV.
Gaming is way bigger than you believe it is and will soon become like people going to sports arenas, which it already is in some cases.
Look, I'm not saying that the Apple TV and the gaming coming with it won't be successful. I know it will. Just in a different way than you are stating.
Most people who buy a gaming console don't do this. They don't compete for prizes, or go to stadiums to watch competitions. I know that SOME do (my company hosted MLG's first website as they were starting out). But in terms of a market size for consoles, that is a small piece of the console market. So there are lots of people who have a console now, who would be well served by a (hypothetical) Apple TV gaming system.
Hypothetically speaking, It's like saying that because Porsche has teams that compete in motor racing, that Acura cannot hypothetically come out with a car to compete with the Porsche in the consumer market. Which is hogwash, as the majority of Porsche cars sold are sold to the consumer. To translate, while Pro level console gaming is a big thing, it is small in terms of number of console gaming units sold...
"Pad a better laptop replacement would put Apple in a $500-to-$1,000 market space that Hall estimates could drive 100 million total units industrywide"
While iPad Pro might be an interesting product for specific tasks, I just don't see it as a laptop replacement. It may be a very interesting and capable graphics design product, and I can see it having many options to make it "good enough" for other uses, but it offers no specific advantage over the MacBook/Air line. Apple is not going to chase after the low end laptop market.
If the iPad Pro is as powerful / capable as is being reported then don't be surprised if it eventually cannibalizes the 12" rMB.
Mobile gaming lead by ios will overtake console revenue this year. Looks like you are the one who has no idea what going on in the industry
This doesn't just include Apple but in any case that revenue is scattered over many small purchases. All that seems to be saying is that MacDonalds earns more than a Michelin 3 star restaurant.
Comments
You really have no clue of the overall gaming industry at all. I'm sure the gaming on the new Apple TV will do well for light games but in no way will it cut into the console/PC gaming market. There are leagues going on right now with millions of dollars up for grabs that teams compete for. This along with people watching people play games will and is only going to get bigger. Games have $200-$500 million dollar budgets. There is no way these games can or will play on the Apple TV.
Gaming is way bigger than you believe it is and will soon become like people going to sports arenas, which it already is in some cases.
Look, I'm not saying that the Apple TV and the gaming coming with it won't be successful. I know it will. Just in a different way than you are stating.
A very nice thing about the iOS app ecosystem is that obsolescence is a gradual process rather than complete and immediate. With consoles, when a new one comes out, all your old games are landfill. With iOS, only new high-end games require the latest & greatest. Over a few years, more and more apps require the latest, but those that don't tend to target the lowest possible OS to maximize potential customers. That longevity in aTV will appeal to casual gamers & app users.
Just look what happenned to portable gaming. I expect the same turn of events.
Again, your assumption is based in a device you haven't seen.
Most won't upgrade every year. But maybe every 2 or 3 years. Still much more frequently than an Xbox.
Developers have figured out how to do this with iPhone/iPad. They will do the same with AppleTv.
You made another assumption, that they will replace the device every 2-3 years. And if that's the case, why is that better for me as a customer, to have the replace my ATV every 2-3 years while I can keep my console for 5-6 years?
And for developers, is still better to have a platform for many years that one that changes frequently.
AppleTV will be renamed "Apple TV S Plus." The S is for Steve, not Siri.
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee
The success of the Apple TV as a gaming platform will be tied to the ability of developers to create games that are fun and entertaining to play, not on developers creating eye-candy that looks pretty. And given the massive resource pool of iOS developers, and the ways they were able to bring new ideas to the iPhone and iPad it's pretty much a given they're going to repeat that with the Apple TV.
I think the console gaming market seriously underestimates the talent pool of iOS developers.
Sony and MS already have programs for indie developers, and I have seen many great games from both. I don't see them underestimating those developers.
It might but that depends on the appeal of Nintendo's original games' content. Nintendo has a history of that. Apple has none. It's an apps store largely filled with junk.
I just don't see why someone would choose planted themselves in front of a TV when they can have a perfectly adequate casual game experience with mobile devices. Of course much might depend on controller capabilities for an Apple TV and game pricing.
In short they aren't going to affect XBox 1 nor PS4 nor PC gamers. I don't even think they will affect a new simpler Nintendo machine.
It can't hurt I suppose. I just don't think gaming will be as big a deal as people think. We shall see.
Apple TV needs content, new capabilities and an interesting App store.
You never know but I really doubt it.
Even Pages is way more than most need
Just for sharts and gargles, the other day I decided to set up a P.O. form in pages instead of InDesign to see how quickly and easily I could duplicate my InDesign template. In about a half hour I was able to get it pretty damn close. Pages, I think is immensely underrated. The only thing really holding it back are the master page and multi-page features and maybe a handful of advanced typesetting features. Otherwise it's quite capable.
Apple is light years behind in the stylus front. Many have pleaded for a proper stylus for years. You cannot be serious in education or scientific note taking without it. The artistic side is an already obvious need. The argument against the stylus is that it only appealed to niche needs. Meanwhile both Samsung and Microsoft have had proper stylus support for ages. In particular, Microsoft has got it right with their Surface line. The stylus for Apple might be nothing more than than a hobby for years. Wake me up when they get software of the calibre of PDF Annotator.
As for gaming on the ATV, I'm excited about the possibilities and I don't think the market is binary where you can only enjoy one or the other (games consoles), it seems there is quite enough room for both to be very happy (at least for awhile). I also think it's naive to think this won't have any impact at all on the gaming market as whole, affecting both casual and more immersive gaming options.
Some things I wonder are:
How long do we expect the gap between games consoles and devices such as the ATV to be a gap that is substantial, meaning a gap which justifies in differentiation the existence of two separate market segments addressed by two different devices?
Is it not feasible to imagine a world where a future ATV would rival the graphics capabilities (and storage, speed, experience, etc.) of a dedicated games console? At least rival near enough such that differentiation is so little that it becomes less important to more and more people such that games consoles struggle to deliver an experience that warrants a completely separate device different than the one on which you watch your programmes and monitor and control your home thingys (alarm, heating/cooling, lights, etc.), and whatever other greatness clever developers create for this device??
Just seems the advancements in these devices each year close the gap more and more and at some point is it not logical to assume they will meet?
In other words, what features/capabilities/experience do we expect future games consoles to deliver above and beyond a future ATV that would warrant a whole separate market segment and separate device?
Why would an organization use Pages when they could go the free Google docs route or Office 365? Apple has not got its iCloud act together. It is overly complicated and woefully lacking in servicing its own hardware clients, especially consumers.
Apple has lost serious momentum in education. It is of course still very popular but mostly among older aging faculty. Fortunately they still have access to Office 365 but then a school can save far more money standardizing on cloud products from Google. Going all the way back to mac.com Apple has never had its cloud act together. They need a whole new team on it and some serious free offerings to it customers.
You really have no clue of the overall gaming industry at all. I'm sure the gaming on the new Apple TV will do well for light games but in no way will it cut into the console/PC gaming market. There are leagues going on right now with millions of dollars up for grabs that teams compete for. This along with people watching people play games will and is only going to get bigger. Games have $200-$500 million dollar budgets. There is no way these games can or will play on the Apple TV.
Gaming is way bigger than you believe it is and will soon become like people going to sports arenas, which it already is in some cases.
Look, I'm not saying that the Apple TV and the gaming coming with it won't be successful. I know it will. Just in a different way than you are stating.
Most people who buy a gaming console don't do this. They don't compete for prizes, or go to stadiums to watch competitions. I know that SOME do (my company hosted MLG's first website as they were starting out). But in terms of a market size for consoles, that is a small piece of the console market. So there are lots of people who have a console now, who would be well served by a (hypothetical) Apple TV gaming system.
Hypothetically speaking, It's like saying that because Porsche has teams that compete in motor racing, that Acura cannot hypothetically come out with a car to compete with the Porsche in the consumer market. Which is hogwash, as the majority of Porsche cars sold are sold to the consumer. To translate, while Pro level console gaming is a big thing, it is small in terms of number of console gaming units sold...
Here we go again. How long until the "Apple TV is a failure" reports roll in as Apple won't release numbers for it?
Then comes the "cut back in orders" reports...
Agreed...then Apple stock gets punished for outlandish predictions.
" Hall said he believes Apple could sell 24 million units of a revamped Apple TV in 2016, especially with new gaming support."
The PS4 total lifetimes sales are over 22 millions
http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/04/30/sony-announces-lifetime-ps4-sales-hit-223-million-mark
"Pad a better laptop replacement would put Apple in a $500-to-$1,000 market space that Hall estimates could drive 100 million total units industrywide"
Really..this is guy is crazy.
Sony and MS already have programs for indie developers, and I have seen many great games from both. I don't see them underestimating those developers.
They sure did when mobile gaming came to the iPhone. Where are all the handhelds now?
While iPad Pro might be an interesting product for specific tasks, I just don't see it as a laptop replacement. It may be a very interesting and capable graphics design product, and I can see it having many options to make it "good enough" for other uses, but it offers no specific advantage over the MacBook/Air line. Apple is not going to chase after the low end laptop market.
If the iPad Pro is as powerful / capable as is being reported then don't be surprised if it eventually cannibalizes the 12" rMB.
They sure did when mobile gaming came to the iPhone. Where are all the handhelds now?
Apple was the one who underestimate console gaming. And now they are tying to use the same mobile recipe for TV gaming. Let's see if it works.
Apple was the one who underestimate console gaming. And now they are tying to use the same mobile recipe for TV gaming. Let's see if it works.
How could Apple have possibly underestimated console gaming when they aren't even in that market (yet)?
This doesn't just include Apple but in any case that revenue is scattered over many small purchases. All that seems to be saying is that MacDonalds earns more than a Michelin 3 star restaurant.