Apple updates 13- and 15-inch MacBook Pros with new Intel chips, enhanced butterfly keyboa...

1246

Comments

  • Reply 61 of 120
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    frantisek said:
    Does it means Apple can use now low power DDR4 memory?
    In theory, but it doesn't.
    I wonder why Apple would not choose to use low power RAM now that the CPUs support it? Does anyone know if that would require a significant redesign or retooling? Are LP and regular RAM modules interchangeable? It just seems weird that a company so focussed on battery life would not take advantage of an opportunity to extend it. Apple took the time to update other parts of the machine -- keyboard and T2 -- I can't get my head around why they'd leave that old compromise in place.

    Maybe we'll see a new model in the fall that addresses this. I hope so.

    I love the extra cores though! Yum.
    That would be a long discussion.   In a nut shell the technologies are not interchangeable.    As for why Apple did not implement that could be for all sorts of reasons.  
  • Reply 62 of 120
    burnsideburnside Posts: 17unconfirmed, member
    By far the best MacBook Pro money can buy

    Tim, you can keep your keyboard failing, dongle requiring, no port having joke of a "professional" laptop. I've got work to do.
    deminsd
  • Reply 63 of 120
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 2,843member
    Apple has announced a new crop of MacBook Pro models with Intel's newest 8th and 9th generation Core processors and is addressing concerns with its ultra slim butterfly keyboards with new enhancements to substantially reduce issues users may experience with stuck or unresponsive keys. 
    Isn't that what the last go-around was supposed to do?

    AppleInsider said:
    The company has maintained that its butterfly design is used without problem by the vast majority of its users and that its notebooks achieve overall quality levels that are the best it has ever delivered.
    Assuming 'without problem' means it doesn't break badly enough that they would have bothered to be without their laptop for days/weeks, right? I wonder now that they will address things more quickly, if we'll see that number go up (assuming enough people are close to Apple Stores, I guess). And, of course I doubt Apple is including all the people who hate the keyboard or just put up with occasional issues. So, that's basically some fancy marketing speak trying to deny a problem they are now on the 4th attempt to fix... LOL
  • Reply 64 of 120
    sirozhasirozha Posts: 801member
    arizrngr said:
    Is APPLE going to provide a service to upgrade 2018 MACBOOK PRO's purchased prior to this announcement?
    No. 
  • Reply 65 of 120
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,390member
    arizrngr said:
    Is APPLE going to provide a service to upgrade 2018 MACBOOK PRO's purchased prior to this announcement?
    Why would Apple do this? This has never been the case and most likely never will. If you're within the return window just return it and get the newer model. Otherwise, you can sell it for pretty close to what you paid for it and then use that money to get the newer model if you so wish to have one. 
  • Reply 66 of 120
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,042member
    ireland said:
    Third or fourth revision for a keyboard design Apple imply has basically no issues? They are being too proud here. Scrap the shitty design and go back to keyboards with some travel and with higher reliability.
    In my opinion they can’t scrap the design in the current models because of space issues. Every component is presumed to be designed to fit within a certain space parameter and any change back to the former or different keyboard design simply won’t work. If a redesign of the keyboard is coming, and rumors say it is, then it will be in a completely new model of MacBook. 
    cgWerks
  • Reply 67 of 120

    Will AI be testing the new hardware for the T2 BridgeOS crashing issue? I had 3 SKUs with the crashing issue last summer and Apple after 6 months let me return the machine. I ended up getting a mid-2017 15” model and haven’t had any crashing issues. It looks like the 2019s use the same T2. I’m curious to know if BridgeOS is any more stable on new hardware. 
    None of our T2 machines in testing or across the staff has the problem, all bought at retail. However, for unpatched systems prior to 10.14.5, we believe it is somehow related to peripheral drivers at this time.
    Hi. Is there a patch to apply other than the regular point updates of MacOS? Or you mean that after the update to 10.14.5, the peripheral drivers should be more stable?
  • Reply 68 of 120
    HPDKHPDK Posts: 7member
    k2kw said:
    Fourth times the charm.
    Well, I guess it will still feel cheap from day one even when it works.
    cgWerks
  • Reply 69 of 120
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    sflocal said:
    ireland said:
    Third or fourth revision for a keyboard design Apple imply has basically no issues? They are being too proud here. Scrap the shitty design and go back to keyboards with some travel and with higher reliability.
    I agree with you. They freaking need to get off their high horse and admit this keyboard is a complete failure. It's dragging their reputation and name down. The design is crap.
    I just moments ago finished sending feedback to Apple letting them know that at least one buyer of a $5000 laptop is refusing to buy another one until I can be sure the keyboard is reliable.

    The most expensive computer I ever bought has been the most frustrating machine I've ever owned because of the keyboard. Now Apple says "Don't worry, the new keyboard, despite being the same fundamental design, is better." Really? Define "better." Better enough for me to risk another six grand out of an audio engineer's salary? Not a chance. Once burned...

    By stubbornly refusing to let this turkey die, Apple is discouraging me from buying another high-ticket item. That doesn't seem like a good strategy.
    Everyone's personal experiences differ.  I myself have had zero problems on my 2017 MBP with that keyboard.  The only thing that I'm not a fan of is the keyboard being louder.  Other than that, zero keyboard problems.

    The folks that a complaining - assuming they actually own one - has me wondering what environment they're in that causes the keys to getting stuck.  I've seen people use their laptops literally as dinner plates, with crud of every kind getting on their keyboard and just asking for keyboard failure.

    It's obvious this recent design is not friendly in certain uses.  It is Apple's responsibility to make these keyboards as reliable as can be.  Then again, how reliable can they be if it turns out that the problem is with people not taking care of what is a precision electronic device?
    This comment is asinine!    Trying to dismiss issues people have had as the result of using the keyboard as a dinner plate is just being totally out of touch.  I’ve had issues with in weeks and frankly Apples inability to own up to their over priced crap is a massive problem. In part this is why I’m on an HP for laptop duty running Linux.  Having access to a wide array of Keyboards and laptops at work plus personally owned devices I am safely say these are the worse keyboards ever put into a upper range laptop.   A $500 laptop will be sporting a better keyboard.   
    cgWerksmike54
  • Reply 70 of 120
    pacificfilmpacificfilm Posts: 134member
    tht said:
    Apart from addressing Pro-users' voracious appetites for processing performance, the newly revamped MacBook Pro models also address keyboard issues that have continued to dog Apple's butterfly keyboard design. 

    The company has maintained that its butterfly design is used without problem by the vast majority of its users and that its notebooks achieve overall quality levels that are the best it has ever delivered. However, it has worked to continued to improve the design of its ultra slim butterfly mechanism so as to substantially reduce issues users may experience with unresponsive or double-typing keys.
    Is AI continuing to track keyboard repairs? Wonder how the 2018 models are fairing in regards to keyboards.

    1st gen butterfly has plastic domes
    2nd gen butterfly has metal domes
    3rd gen butterfly has silicone muffler
    4th gen has “new materials”

    The tolerances on the design look really really tight to me, and the reliability issues could be caused by any number of issues. 

    I have no idea why they started futzzing around with the keyboard in the first place. One of Ive's minions must have said...lets modernize touch typing.....I've had three different butterfly keyboards and they all sucked..big time...and I type well...and fast...on screenplays..and it's been one botched job after another. I would really really like to know who decided to change the keys and how much they type.
    mike54
  • Reply 71 of 120
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 5,990member
    wizard69 said:
    sflocal said:
    Everyone's personal experiences differ.  I myself have had zero problems on my 2017 MBP with that keyboard.  The only thing that I'm not a fan of is the keyboard being louder.  Other than that, zero keyboard problems.

    The folks that a complaining - assuming they actually own one - has me wondering what environment they're in that causes the keys to getting stuck.  I've seen people use their laptops literally as dinner plates, with crud of every kind getting on their keyboard and just asking for keyboard failure.

    It's obvious this recent design is not friendly in certain uses.  It is Apple's responsibility to make these keyboards as reliable as can be.  Then again, how reliable can they be if it turns out that the problem is with people not taking care of what is a precision electronic device?
    This comment is asinine!    Trying to dismiss issues people have had as the result of using the keyboard as a dinner plate is just being totally out of touch.  I’ve had issues with in weeks and frankly Apples inability to own up to their over priced crap is a massive problem. In part this is why I’m on an HP for laptop duty running Linux.  Having access to a wide array of Keyboards and laptops at work plus personally owned devices I am safely say these are the worse keyboards ever put into a upper range laptop.   A $500 laptop will be sporting a better keyboard.   
    So what bug crawled up your ass and died?  If you're thinking I'm blaming everyone instead of acknowledging a flaw, then re-read it.  I do think there's a problem.  Did you miss that?  I'm just being curious about the events that lead to a failure.  Obviously it's not 100% same for everyone.

    Jeez... take a chill pill.
    pscooter63macplusplus
  • Reply 72 of 120
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 4,297member
    Why would anyone order one of these before keyboard reviews have come out?
    cgWerksmike54
  • Reply 73 of 120
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 2,843member
    lkrupp said:
    In my opinion they can’t scrap the design in the current models because of space issues. Every component is presumed to be designed to fit within a certain space parameter and any change back to the former or different keyboard design simply won’t work. If a redesign of the keyboard is coming, and rumors say it is, then it will be in a completely new model of MacBook. 
    Yeah, I would probably agree with this. But, I also think that is precisely what they should do, rather than all these attempted fixes.

    bayridge8829 said:
    Hi. Is there a patch to apply other than the regular point updates of MacOS? Or you mean that after the update to 10.14.5, the peripheral drivers should be more stable?
    Could be a coincidence, but 10.14.5 has actually been less stable. I think since I got my 2018 Mac mini in December, it froze up once... until 10.14.5. I'm past my 3rd freeze up since then, and am getting a bit concerned. I do have an eGPU and a few other peripherals, though. I would think it could be the hardware, but it has been 100% solid running Boot Camp with Windows, and only 1 freeze-up over 1/2 a year until now.

    pacificfilm said:
    I have no idea why they started futzzing around with the keyboard in the first place. One of Ive's minions must have said...lets modernize touch typing.....I've had three different butterfly keyboards and they all sucked..big time...and I type well...and fast...on screenplays..and it's been one botched job after another. I would really really like to know who decided to change the keys and how much they type.
    I'm actually afraid those talking about Apple going to just a touch surface with haptic feedback - and this being an interim step to get people used to the feel - might end up being right.

    Why would anyone order one of these before keyboard reviews have come out?
    True, but I'm not sure what a review is going to tell us. So, if you hate the keyboard, then don't order one. If you love it, then maybe you'll have a better chance of it not breaking. No review needed. :smile: Pretty straight forward.

  • Reply 74 of 120
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,146member
    tht said:
    Apart from addressing Pro-users' voracious appetites for processing performance, the newly revamped MacBook Pro models also address keyboard issues that have continued to dog Apple's butterfly keyboard design. 

    The company has maintained that its butterfly design is used without problem by the vast majority of its users and that its notebooks achieve overall quality levels that are the best it has ever delivered. However, it has worked to continued to improve the design of its ultra slim butterfly mechanism so as to substantially reduce issues users may experience with unresponsive or double-typing keys.
    Is AI continuing to track keyboard repairs? Wonder how the 2018 models are fairing in regards to keyboards.

    1st gen butterfly has plastic domes
    2nd gen butterfly has metal domes
    3rd gen butterfly has silicone muffler
    4th gen has “new materials”

    The tolerances on the design look really really tight to me, and the reliability issues could be caused by any number of issues. 

    I have no idea why they started futzzing around with the keyboard in the first place. One of Ive's minions must have said...lets modernize touch typing.....I've had three different butterfly keyboards and they all sucked..big time...and I type well...and fast...on screenplays..and it's been one botched job after another. I would really really like to know who decided to change the keys and how much they type.
    Because they're clearly moving to virtual control surfaces with haptic feedback, hence the Touch Bar, enlarged Track Pad, shallower key travel, etc. There are myriad patents to show the roadmap going back a decade.
    lkrupp
  • Reply 75 of 120
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,146member

    Why would anyone order one of these before keyboard reviews have come out?
    Because they need a MacBook Pro and they're not paranoid?
    lkrupppscooter63jeffharrismacxpress
  • Reply 76 of 120
    mike fixmike fix Posts: 266member
    And the MAC PRO sits in the forgotten corner.
    mike54
  • Reply 77 of 120
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,146member

    Apart from addressing Pro-users' voracious appetites for processing performance, the newly revamped MacBook Pro models also address keyboard issues that have continued to dog Apple's butterfly keyboard design.

    The company has maintained that its butterfly design is used without problem by the vast majority of its users and that its notebooks achieve overall quality levels that are the best it has ever delivered. However, it has worked to continued to improve the design of its ultra slim butterfly mechanism so as to substantially reduce issues users may experience with unresponsive or double-typing keys.
    Where is this information coming from anyway? It's not mentioned at all in Apple's press release. 
  • Reply 78 of 120
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,146member
    mike fix said:
    And the MAC PRO sits in the forgotten corner.
    Considering it's due this year, I doubt it's forgotten.
  • Reply 79 of 120
    thttht Posts: 4,506member

    Apart from addressing Pro-users' voracious appetites for processing performance, the newly revamped MacBook Pro models also address keyboard issues that have continued to dog Apple's butterfly keyboard design.

    The company has maintained that its butterfly design is used without problem by the vast majority of its users and that its notebooks achieve overall quality levels that are the best it has ever delivered. However, it has worked to continued to improve the design of its ultra slim butterfly mechanism so as to substantially reduce issues users may experience with unresponsive or double-typing keys.
    Where is this information coming from anyway? It's not mentioned at all in Apple's press release. 
    Apple gave a few tech media people keyboard info on background, and then leave it to the media folks to report it, with a given set of rules. 
  • Reply 80 of 120
    jeffharrisjeffharris Posts: 666member
    wizard69 said:
    NICE!!!
    Just as my late 2012 15" MacBook Pro Retina is struggling with OS X 10.13!
    It just crashed for some mysterious reason. I was out of my office for 20 minutes, came back to the grey screen of death. Very reassuring.

    I'd LOVE the i9 octo-core, but wonder if it has thermal issues similar to the 2018.
    I guess I'll wait for some hands-on reviews before biting the bullet.
    I wouldn’t even consider one of these machines until there are long term quality reports.   I’ve been burnt far too many times by Apple (actually computers in general) to be the first on the band wagon.    However I must admit the spec look enticing.   Will need to check pricing.  
    Yes, the specs look fantastic!

    I rarely use the keyboard, so for me it’s not an issue. I intend to max out everything but the SSD when I order. 
    I’ll probably stick with the slightly slower octo-core processor because of possible heat issues.

    Honestly, I’ve been using Macs since the 512K and never had any major hardware issues.
    Although, dealing with SCSI was always a nightmare.
    That’s maybe a dozen Macs, PowerBooks and MacBook Pros
    The OS… System 6, System 7, System 8… sure, but rarely with OS X.
    macplusplusfastasleep
Sign In or Register to comment.