The following $2905 workstation is equivalent to the $5999 Mac Pro both in terms of performance and in terms of using all workstation-class components:
$460 - Supermicro MBD-X11SPI-TF-O motherboard $749 - Xeon W-3223 $100 - Noctua NH-U12S DX-3647 CPU cooler $200 - 32 GB DDR4 2666 ECC RAM $525 - AMD Radeon Pro WX 7100 8GB $280 - Dune Pro case with a cheese grater $160 - Samsung 970 Pro NVMe SSD 512GB $231 - Seasonic Prime Ultra 850W 80+ Titanium PSU $200 - Windows 10 Pro -------------------- $2,905
That is not "just a $400 i9 processor jammed in a machine with a plain-as-day Northbridge, a few PCI-E slots, and a couple of I/O options". It is a bona fide workstation, with the same CPU, server-grade ECC RAM, workstation GPU that slightly outdoes the one in the Mac, etc.
Granted, the article said that build-your-own rigs could come in less expensive, but the authors seemed to imply that such builds would not really be comparable to a Mac Pro because they are made from consumer-grade parts. In any case, there's the equivalent+ custom workstation.
The component hardware quality may be the same -- no such implication was made that it wouldn't be. But, from a support standpoint, it isn't equivalent. From a labor of assembly standpoint, it isn't. Way fewer PCI-E and one whole X16 slot on yours. Four fewer RAM slots on yours. Zero Thunderbolt 3 on yours as far as I can tell. Louder. Weaker power supply. You do get more SATA slots, and more USB-A. And, like we said in the article, add more money for Windows for Workstations.
You want to do this? Go nuts. It's probably perfect for what you want to do. But, it isn't equivalent to the Mac Pro in every measure, and falls very short on several key metrics, like most comparisons with part pickers.
You've mentioned the power supply. I think there's also the consideration of how expandable the system is. The potential also costs more.
At least we can rejoice and be thankful this premium priced Mac "Pro" has USB-A like the iMac "Pro," which is the very port that Mac Pro pricing defenders in this forum mercilessly lambast in other threads as being "totally unnecessary" when they argue with all their might that "it has no place on the MacBook Pro." LOL. Apple continues to show the world why USB-A is still relevant now at the end of 2019 and going forward! And no, my argumentative comrades, Apple doesn't "grudgingly add" anything. They tend to rather merciless remove features (e.g., the SD card slot on the MBP). USB-A was clearly added by Apple to the 2019 Mac Pro after much contemplation. And their final decision was thankfully rooted in practical reality. That ubiquitous USB-A port isn't going away anytime soon. As such it would have been great to eliminate a dongle on the rather large 16" MBP which has space aplenty to accommodate it, but therein lies the rather inconsistent definition of what defines "Pro" in Apple's lineup.
At the end of the day, the Mac Pro is NOT "made only for" certain types of people. Those silly and insensitive "it's not made for you" arguments fall flat, as they should. Apple doesn't discriminate when it comes to earning money. They sell to whomever has the cash to pay for it. And since most of us lack Mac Pro levels of cash, in light of how comparatively-affordable those Mac Pros and G5 towers were in the past, some of us cannot help but mourn the lack of an upgradable Mac tower priced for The Rest of Us. Oh well. We can look forward to finding a 2019 Mac Pro on EBAY for a much more palatable price 10 years from now. I just wish I could time warp then and back! :-)
The following $2905 workstation is equivalent to the $5999 Mac Pro both in terms of performance and in terms of using all workstation-class components:
$460 - Supermicro MBD-X11SPI-TF-O motherboard $749 - Xeon W-3223 $100 - Noctua NH-U12S DX-3647 CPU cooler $200 - 32 GB DDR4 2666 ECC RAM $525 - AMD Radeon Pro WX 7100 8GB $280 - Dune Pro case with a cheese grater $160 - Samsung 970 Pro NVMe SSD 512GB $231 - Seasonic Prime Ultra 850W 80+ Titanium PSU $200 - Windows 10 Pro -------------------- $2,905
That is not "just a $400 i9 processor jammed in a machine with a plain-as-day Northbridge, a few PCI-E slots, and a couple of I/O options". It is a bona fide workstation, with the same CPU, server-grade ECC RAM, workstation GPU that slightly outdoes the one in the Mac, etc.
Granted, the article said that build-your-own rigs could come in less expensive, but the authors seemed to imply that such builds would not really be comparable to a Mac Pro because they are made from consumer-grade parts. In any case, there's the equivalent+ custom workstation.
The component hardware quality may be the same -- no such implication was made that it wouldn't be. But, from a support standpoint, it isn't equivalent. From a labor of assembly standpoint, it isn't. Way fewer PCI-E and one whole X16 slot on yours. Four fewer RAM slots on yours. Zero Thunderbolt 3 on yours as far as I can tell. Louder. Weaker power supply. You do get more SATA slots, and more USB-A. And, like we said in the article, add more money for Windows for Workstations.
You want to do this? Go nuts. It's probably perfect for what you want to do. But, it isn't equivalent to the Mac Pro in every measure, and falls very short on several key metrics, like most comparisons with part pickers.
Thanks for your thoughtful reply, those are good points. I'm not a fan of PC part picker tools, partly for the reason you mentioned. My apologies for incorrectly reading an implication into your article.
The main point from your article which I disagree with is "compared to Windows workstation pricing, the jokes and arguments fall flat". A few inexpensive adjustments to the build I suggested bring it to feature parity with the base Mac Pro on the key metrics, plus some extras:
Thank you Appleinsider for this article, much needed to educate those that simply don't understand what, why and who these machines are designed for. I am very glad Apple final gave professionals something they not only wanted but need. I work as an audio engineer for one of the big movie studios in Los Angeles and I know that sometime next year we will be buying the rack mount version of the Mac Pro for our audio dept(several of them). The amount of audio work we are doing now we need these new machines and they will more than pay for themselves. Yes I'm not paying the bill for them and I'm not sure what config ours will be but they will be a tax write off for our studio and allow us to push more through in less time which is being requested of us every day now. Our 2020 plate is extremely full, fullest its been in my last 12yrs here so I say thank you Apple.
The following $2905 workstation is equivalent to the $5999 Mac Pro both in terms of performance and in terms of using all workstation-class components:
$460 - Supermicro MBD-X11SPI-TF-O motherboard $749 - Xeon W-3223 $100 - Noctua NH-U12S DX-3647 CPU cooler $200 - 32 GB DDR4 2666 ECC RAM $525 - AMD Radeon Pro WX 7100 8GB $280 - Dune Pro case with a cheese grater $160 - Samsung 970 Pro NVMe SSD 512GB $231 - Seasonic Prime Ultra 850W 80+ Titanium PSU $200 - Windows 10 Pro -------------------- $2,905
That is not "just a $400 i9 processor jammed in a machine with a plain-as-day Northbridge, a few PCI-E slots, and a couple of I/O options". It is a bona fide workstation, with the same CPU, server-grade ECC RAM, workstation GPU that slightly outdoes the one in the Mac, etc.
Granted, the article said that build-your-own rigs could come in less expensive, but the authors seemed to imply that such builds would not really be comparable to a Mac Pro because they are made from consumer-grade parts. In any case, there's the equivalent+ custom workstation.
Add in labor, and cohesive single-vendor service warranty.
Add in a generous $500 for professional assembly, if one is not comfortable with assembling. I would not pay over $2000 for a single-vendor service warranty on a sub-$4000 machine.
Even if a memory outlet gives a 10% discount, they’ll be able to save thousands. It’s like buying a $5k computer and saving hundreds on memory. It’s all relative.
Nice try, but it won’t work. Every article I’ve seen leads off with the price, usually highlighting the wheels, monitor or the monitor stand. The only things that might shut up those laughing will be if it sells well even at its price point and reviews and user testimonies are positive.
And that won’t shut up a dedicated core of people who just seem to like complaining.
I have a feeling Apple knows very well how many it will sell. The market isn't huge. But what Apple gains from making a machine like this IS huge. The innovation and know-how will trickle down into consumer devices. Anyone who thinks this is a 'home computer for games' really needs to get out more often...
Nice try, but it won’t work. Every article I’ve seen leads off with the price, usually highlighting the wheels, monitor or the monitor stand. The only things that might shut up those laughing will be if it sells well even at its price point and reviews and user testimonies are positive.
And that won’t shut up a dedicated core of people who just seem to like complaining.
I have a feeling Apple knows very well how many it will sell. The market isn't huge. But what Apple gains from making a machine like this IS huge. The innovation and know-how will trickle down into consumer devices. Anyone who thinks this is a 'home computer for games' really needs to get out more often...
The following $2905 workstation is equivalent to the $5999 Mac Pro both in terms of performance and in terms of using all workstation-class components:
$460 - Supermicro MBD-X11SPI-TF-O motherboard $749 - Xeon W-3223 $100 - Noctua NH-U12S DX-3647 CPU cooler $200 - 32 GB DDR4 2666 ECC RAM $525 - AMD Radeon Pro WX 7100 8GB $280 - Dune Pro case with a cheese grater $160 - Samsung 970 Pro NVMe SSD 512GB $231 - Seasonic Prime Ultra 850W 80+ Titanium PSU $200 - Windows 10 Pro -------------------- $2,905
That is not "just a $400 i9 processor jammed in a machine with a plain-as-day Northbridge, a few PCI-E slots, and a couple of I/O options". It is a bona fide workstation, with the same CPU, server-grade ECC RAM, workstation GPU that slightly outdoes the one in the Mac, etc.
Granted, the article said that build-your-own rigs could come in less expensive, but the authors seemed to imply that such builds would not really be comparable to a Mac Pro because they are made from consumer-grade parts. In any case, there's the equivalent+ custom workstation.
The component hardware quality may be the same -- no such implication was made that it wouldn't be. But, from a support standpoint, it isn't equivalent. From a labor of assembly standpoint, it isn't. Way fewer PCI-E and one whole X16 slot on yours. Four fewer RAM slots on yours. Zero Thunderbolt 3 on yours as far as I can tell. Louder. Weaker power supply. You do get more SATA slots, and more USB-A. And, like we said in the article, add more money for Windows for Workstations.
You want to do this? Go nuts. It's probably perfect for what you want to do. But, it isn't equivalent to the Mac Pro in every measure, and falls very short on several key metrics, like most comparisons with part pickers.
Thanks for your thoughtful reply, those are good points. I'm not a fan of PC part picker tools, partly for the reason you mentioned. My apologies for incorrectly reading an implication into your article.
The main point from your article which I disagree with is "compared to Windows workstation pricing, the jokes and arguments fall flat". A few inexpensive adjustments to the build I suggested bring it to feature parity with the base Mac Pro on the key metrics, plus some extras:
Your board comes with only two x16 and one x8, even less of RAM, sure. Did you know both MPX slots equals another 16 lanes? Combine with two x16 slots and that's 48 of them already.
What's the point? You can even find a consumer 12-core Ryzen right now for even less of the price. Are you going to brag that's better than a workstation platform? But hey, as long you're happy. Don't cry over when you wanna upgrade yours with 1.5 TiB of memory. You asked for modularity then think it's free.
At least we can rejoice and be thankful this premium priced Mac "Pro" has USB-A like the iMac "Pro," which is the very port that Mac Pro pricing defenders in this forum mercilessly lambast in other threads as being "totally unnecessary" when they argue with all their might that "it has no place on the MacBook Pro." LOL. Apple continues to show the world why USB-A is still relevant now at the end of 2019 and going forward! And no, my argumentative comrades, Apple doesn't "grudgingly add" anything. They tend to rather merciless remove features (e.g., the SD card slot on the MBP). USB-A was clearly added by Apple to the 2019 Mac Pro after much contemplation. And their final decision was thankfully rooted in practical reality. That ubiquitous USB-A port isn't going away anytime soon. As such it would have been great to eliminate a dongle on the rather large 16" MBP which has space aplenty to accommodate it, but therein lies the rather inconsistent definition of what defines "Pro" in Apple's lineup.
At the end of the day, the Mac Pro is NOT "made only for" certain types of people. Those silly and insensitive "it's not made for you" arguments fall flat, as they should. Apple doesn't discriminate when it comes to earning money. They sell to whomever has the cash to pay for it. And since most of us lack Mac Pro levels of cash, in light of how comparatively-affordable those Mac Pros and G5 towers were in the past, some of us cannot help but mourn the lack of an upgradable Mac tower priced for The Rest of Us. Oh well. We can look forward to finding a 2019 Mac Pro on EBAY for a much more palatable price 10 years from now. I just wish I could time warp then and back! :-)
Do you know what's irrelevant?
Your profile picture. That was one of the biggest failures.
Workstations have always been expensive. The Mac Pro is no exception to that rule, and Windows workstations are priced similarly to the Mac Pro.
First of all, those machines come with 3 years of on-site warranty (and for a hundred or so more, that can be bumped to 5 years of on-site next business day).
Second, no company ever pays the website price. It's typically lower (15% to 30%), even for a single unit purchase.
Workstations have always been expensive. The Mac Pro is no exception to that rule, and Windows workstations are priced similarly to the Mac Pro.
First of all, those machines come with 3 years of on-site warranty (and for a hundred or so more, that can be bumped to 5 years of on-site next business day).
Second, no company ever pays the website price. It's typically lower (15% to 30%), even for a single unit purchase.
Most expensive Mac Pro processor, Xeon W-3275: 10,903.
AMD Threadripper 3970x: 16,660.
Mac Pro obsolete before it even shipped.
How much memory do Threadripper 3900 series systems support. The motherboards advertised on the AMD website say 256 GB memory max, but that really can’t be the max memory supported as the Zen+ MCMs supported 2 TB. Maybe it’s true as the Ryzen 9 3950x seems to support 128 GB max memory, and the Threadrippers are 2 of these chips in a package.
That’s kind of Achilles heel if RAM support is so low and would give OEMs some pause with using them.
Most expensive Mac Pro processor, Xeon W-3275: 10,903.
AMD Threadripper 3970x: 16,660.
Mac Pro obsolete before it even shipped.
How much memory do Threadripper 3900 series systems support. The motherboards advertised on the AMD website say 256 GB memory max, but that really can’t be the max memory supported as the Zen+ MCMs supported 2 TB. Maybe it’s true as the Ryzen 9 3950x seems to support 128 GB max memory, and the Threadrippers are 2 of these chips in a package.
That’s kind of Achilles heel if RAM support is so low and would give OEMs some pause with using them.
If Intel doesn't drop their support for the current 3647 sockets, we might be able to upgrade the Mac Pro in the future, that kinda alleviate the trouble.
Workstations have always been expensive. The Mac Pro is no exception to that rule, and Windows workstations are priced similarly to the Mac Pro.
First of all, those machines come with 3 years of on-site warranty (and for a hundred or so more, that can be bumped to 5 years of on-site next business day).
Second, no company ever pays the website price. It's typically lower (15% to 30%), even for a single unit purchase.
Comments
At the end of the day, the Mac Pro is NOT "made only for" certain types of people. Those silly and insensitive "it's not made for you" arguments fall flat, as they should. Apple doesn't discriminate when it comes to earning money. They sell to whomever has the cash to pay for it. And since most of us lack Mac Pro levels of cash, in light of how comparatively-affordable those Mac Pros and G5 towers were in the past, some of us cannot help but mourn the lack of an upgradable Mac tower priced for The Rest of Us. Oh well. We can look forward to finding a 2019 Mac Pro on EBAY for a much more palatable price 10 years from now. I just wish I could time warp then and back! :-)
https://www.servethehome.com/intel-core-i9-10980xe-review-18-cores-of-pure-intel/intel-core-i9-10980xe-cinebench-r20/
Most expensive Mac Pro processor, Xeon W-3275: 10,903.
AMD Threadripper 3970x: 16,660.
Mac Pro obsolete before it even shipped.
https://www.amazon.com/GIGABYTE-12xDDR4-8xSATA3-32-Phases-Motherboard/dp/B07TFSQ7S5?SubscriptionId=AKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q&tag=duckduckgo-osx-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B07TFSQ7S5
$2,100 for the board. There you go.
Your board comes with only two x16 and one x8, even less of RAM, sure. Did you know both MPX slots equals another 16 lanes? Combine with two x16 slots and that's 48 of them already.
What's the point? You can even find a consumer 12-core Ryzen right now for even less of the price. Are you going to brag that's better than a workstation platform?
But hey, as long you're happy. Don't cry over when you wanna upgrade yours with 1.5 TiB of memory. You asked for modularity then think it's free.
You can thank Intel for that. If they don't move, you can do nothing about it.
Do you know what's irrelevant?
Your profile picture. That was one of the biggest failures.
Asking a G4 cube for "right" design...
First of all, those machines come with 3 years of on-site warranty (and for a hundred or so more, that can be bumped to 5 years of on-site next business day).
Second, no company ever pays the website price. It's typically lower (15% to 30%), even for a single unit purchase.
I haven't seen you in a while.
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Surface-Laptop-3-15-Ryzen-5-Review-Microsoft-Can-Do-Better.440183.0.html#toc-performance-one-of-the-better-ryzen-u-laptops
I'm still remembering this, three times the power!