TB chains. Just buy better peripherals that support chaining. It's not Apple's problem but your problem
Oh, I’m aware. I was just replying to the comment that it frees up a port, because the net result is the same. And, most peripherals are not TB. In practice, it’s fine and I’m not worried about it, but it’s one fewer useful port for me. I have never needed or plan to need HDMI.
Paradroid said: I don't think they are saying it's a deal breaker. But this is a MacBook, not a ThinkPad. The last redesign (2016) moved the design forward, this seems to move it backwards. It wouldn't stop me buying the machine but it's a fair observation.
How would you "move it forward" though? And if you think this design is in anyway comparable to a ThinkPad...
I love it when people say crap like this without providing any further context, especially about the much better design they obviously have in their heads
I think he refers to the inclusion of so called "legacy" ports. As you already mentioned in one of the previous comments, a dongletown apologist.
fastasleep said: I have never needed or plan to need HDMI.
How nice for you - you can just ignore it and the machine still functions. However for those that need it, if it's not there they have to resort to idiotic solutions like dongles. Yes, dongles are a much saner solution - especially for a pro machine. Good god the amount of fuss by the anti port people is beyond ridiculous. If you don't like the ports then stick with the original M1 MacBook Pro. Have at it. Better to have a port and not need it, then need it and not have it.
Paradroid said: I don't think they are saying it's a deal breaker. But this is a MacBook, not a ThinkPad. The last redesign (2016) moved the design forward, this seems to move it backwards. It wouldn't stop me buying the machine but it's a fair observation.
How would you "move it forward" though? And if you think this design is in anyway comparable to a ThinkPad...
I love it when people say crap like this without providing any further context, especially about the much better design they obviously have in their heads
You want me to do the job of Apple's design department, and accuse me of talking crap?
I don't think a ThinkPad is comparable, that was the whole point.
auxio said: I don't really need one as I have a decent work laptop right now. This would be for personal use, and a fair bit of the software I use for my hobbies hasn't even been ported to Apple Silicon yet (e.g. Ableton Live), so I'm ok to wait.
EDIT: And then I check the Ableton website and see that ASi support is finally in beta
The amount of stuff that worked with the M1 and emulation was astonishing. I didn't run into any one Mac app that refused to work; then again I didn't try an audio app.
I do think these machines will light a fire under any developers who have been on the fence though. As you note Ableton has a beta; I think the pace of that is going to pick up dramatically. We shouldn't have to go through the whole Adobe/Carbon 64 fiasco again - one would hope!
Welp it's only a kidney and a half day. 16" MacBook Pro with M1 Pro, 64GB of RAM and 2TB of disk for $4,299. Delivers November 3rd-ish. Expected delivery was October 26th when I first started look - the dates zoomed up quickly!
Ordered a maxed out 16”, Nov 3-5 ship date that slipped from the 26th after the store crashed on me. That’ll give me a little time to freak out and cancel If I need to, but pretty excited! Coming from a an almost maxed out i9 2018 15”, the main seller for me is more storage (the only thing I didn’t max out last time) and battery life, and last but not least, that monster GPU. I can’t wait to see the benchmarks on this thing.
Only complaint is I was really hoping for new color ways, specifically Midnight. I think the theory that these colors were baked in like 6 months ago is probably correct, so for now it’s still gray or grayer.
The loss of a TB port I’m favor of HDMI which I don’t need is still a net win if it makes the complainers shut up.
It's actually a big let down in terms of laptop design. Why are we bringing back HDMI when USB4 provides the same technology?
People with jobs that involve presenting content in multiple locations love the HDMI. Not requiring an adapter for something so routine is absolutely the correct design.
Glad the ports many here declared "legacy" are back. Are they still "legacy" now?
Yes, they are. Why do I want a slow SD card slot when I could have used another TB4 port with much wider bandwidth? What if I don't need an external monitor? I'm stuck with these ugly holes in my computer that won't do anything for me.
Magsafe power you can make an argument for, but my desktop setup is kind of reliant on my power being on the other side, so I either forego one of my only 3 TB ports, or have my power stretching across my desk and bending at an odd angle.
Sure these complaints were petty, but they're no more petty than the complaints we had to put up with "You mean I have to buy a $10 adapter to use my legacy gear?"
Paradroid said: You want me to do the job of Apple's design department, and accuse me of talking crap?
It wouldn't hurt to at least have some ideas for a direction they could go - otherwise you're just throwing out vague assurances that there is some sort of "improvement" without anything to back it up. The unlimited unknown - how bold and risky of you.
Only complaint is I was really hoping for new color ways, specifically Midnight. I think the theory that these colors were baked in like 6 months ago is probably correct, so for now it’s still gray or grayer.
Agree - I would have loved an orange one, but I wasn't holding my breath. Maybe when they refresh the Macbook Air next time?
anome said: Magsafe power you can make an argument for, but my desktop setup is kind of reliant on my power being on the other side, so I either forego one of my only 3 TB ports, or have my power stretching across my desk and bending at an odd angle.
Pretty sure TB ports support power and data at the same time. You want everyone else to get a dongle for HDMI, just get a dock for your machine to only need one cable.
Seems like a small sacrifice you were willing to force everyone else to make
fastasleep said: I have never needed or plan to need HDMI.
How nice for you - you can just ignore it and the machine still functions. However for those that need it, if it's not there they have to resort to idiotic solutions like dongles. Yes, dongles are a much saner solution - especially for a pro machine. Good god the amount of fuss by the anti port people is beyond ridiculous. If you don't like the ports then stick with the original M1 MacBook Pro. Have at it. Better to have a port and not need it, then need it and not have it.
Using a regular USBC-HDMI cable is not a dongle. It’s just using a cable, as we have used various IO cables for decades.
There is simply no PC laptop that comes close to this beast. Basically, double the power/performance. Any PC laptop build to match it would be much bigger, heavier, and sound like a leaf blower, not to mention the short battery life.
If the M1 Max really is x4 faster than the 5600M GPU, then it's as fast as the fastest dedicated GPU in the MacPro. That's insane. That's probably peak performance and the sustained is a bit less, but that's still insane. At 4x is would have a Metal score of 170.
And this is all at the very same price point of the INTEL Macs that this beast is shredding!
Their is simply nothing comparable on the PC laptop side of the equation.
auxio said: I don't really need one as I have a decent work laptop right now. This would be for personal use, and a fair bit of the software I use for my hobbies hasn't even been ported to Apple Silicon yet (e.g. Ableton Live), so I'm ok to wait.
EDIT: And then I check the Ableton website and see that ASi support is finally in beta
The amount of stuff that worked with the M1 and emulation was astonishing. I didn't run into any one Mac app that refused to work; then again I didn't try an audio app.
I do think these machines will light a fire under any developers who have been on the fence though. As you note Ableton has a beta; I think the pace of that is going to pick up dramatically. We shouldn't have to go through the whole Adobe/Carbon 64 fiasco again - one would hope!
For audio apps, a lot of the problem is with old plugins (VSTs and similar) which aren't being maintained anymore, so they need to figure out a way to host them via emulation while the main app is native. I also have a couple of old audio devices which don't have updated drivers, so I'd need to find replacements for those.
The casing looks just like my MBP from about 12 years ago.
The keyboard assemble is difference. It appears the the keyboard is now separate from the case but in back aluminum and the keys have a slightly different shape and appear to be slight closer together. I expect to see this on the next generation of 13" models along with mini-LED and all the other improvements, minus the HDMI / Card Reader ports. I'm guess the foot print of the next 13" will decrease slightly too, which is why they tightened the keyboard.
Other than that or changing the color, I don't really see what there is to improve visually.
Using a regular USBC-HDMI cable is not a dongle. It’s just using a cable, as we have used various IO cables for decades.
Semantics - whatever you want to call it, it's another *thing* you have to remember to have with you, not leave behind, find out one day it suddenly has some problem and needs to be replaced (while you are stuck without functionality in the meantime), etc.
Whatever your choice of pedantry, in the end it equals more friction for every day use. For what? A port on the side of the machine that offends someones sensibilities? How utterly ridiculous. Thankfully the likes of you LOST the argument and saner heads prevailed.
EDIT: Ha - just realized who I replied to. What a shock; the king of pedantic nit pickers.
Paradroid said: You want me to do the job of Apple's design department, and accuse me of talking crap?
It wouldn't hurt to at least have some ideas for a direction they could go - otherwise you're just throwing out vague assurances that there is some sort of "improvement" without anything to back it up. The unlimited unknown - how bold and risky of you.
Oh I have ideas. But if I share them with you, you'll then have a perfect straw man opportunity to disagree with my comment on design direction. No thanks.
For audio apps, a lot of the problem is with old plugins (VSTs and similar) which aren't being maintained anymore, so they need to figure out a way to host them via emulation while the main app is native. I also have a couple of old audio devices which don't have updated drivers, so I'd need to find replacements for those.
People were also having USB/Audio interface issues. Hopefully that's just driver stability and not some inherent flaw in the hardware. Are the T2 Intel Macbook Pros still having interface issues? I haven't paid much attention lately as I don't do much with audio these days.
Comments
However for those that need it, if it's not there they have to resort to idiotic solutions like dongles.
Yes, dongles are a much saner solution - especially for a pro machine.
Good god the amount of fuss by the anti port people is beyond ridiculous. If you don't like the ports then stick with the original M1 MacBook Pro. Have at it. Better to have a port and not need it, then need it and not have it.
I do think these machines will light a fire under any developers who have been on the fence though. As you note Ableton has a beta; I think the pace of that is going to pick up dramatically. We shouldn't have to go through the whole Adobe/Carbon 64 fiasco again - one would hope!
Magsafe power you can make an argument for, but my desktop setup is kind of reliant on my power being on the other side, so I either forego one of my only 3 TB ports, or have my power stretching across my desk and bending at an odd angle.
Sure these complaints were petty, but they're no more petty than the complaints we had to put up with "You mean I have to buy a $10 adapter to use my legacy gear?"
Seems like a small sacrifice you were willing to force everyone else to make
If the M1 Max really is x4 faster than the 5600M GPU, then it's as fast as the fastest dedicated GPU in the MacPro. That's insane. That's probably peak performance and the sustained is a bit less, but that's still insane. At 4x is would have a Metal score of 170.
And this is all at the very same price point of the INTEL Macs that this beast is shredding!
Their is simply nothing comparable on the PC laptop side of the equation.
Other than that or changing the color, I don't really see what there is to improve visually.
Whatever your choice of pedantry, in the end it equals more friction for every day use. For what? A port on the side of the machine that offends someones sensibilities? How utterly ridiculous. Thankfully the likes of you LOST the argument and saner heads prevailed.
EDIT: Ha - just realized who I replied to. What a shock; the king of pedantic nit pickers.
Personally I'll wait for the inevitable Mac Mini Pro as I'm not a mobile user beyond an iPad Pro... but I am intrigued...