But then, will those phones really BE Android phones if they're incompatible?
Just like Linux. There is no such thing as a Linux OS, it's just a kernel.
With Android, it's a real OS, but if it can get differentiated enough, then what we'll see is Android BASED OS's.
In that case, can we really talk about Android vs Apple's iPhone OS? Or about RIM's OS, or Symbian, or Meamo. Or whatever?
There won't be 'AN" Android OS any longer, but a number of different, incompatible ones.
We'll need to talk about Motorola's OS, and HTC's OS, etc.
There are two different things. One is Android OS which is free, open and you can do wahtever you want, even screw it into totally incompatible closed system.
Then there is Android "with Google" experience, with Android Market and other Google Apps, which is pretty homogenous platform (actually, right now, more homogenous than iPhone) - Google learned their lesson and is quite strict about platform fragmentation.
You must account for the fact that the iPhone original created the direction this industry is attempting to reach.
This market is now highly profitable, due to the iPhone, and everyone is now attempting to be the next iPhone.
The risk taker in this market is Apple.
They are driving the areas of development and counter-development, not RIMM or Google or Moto or Nokia, etc.
All toolkits are attempting to match Cocoa Touch.
By the way, knowing as I do these guys the code they have upcoming has been in development for at least 18 months in many areas yet released for commercial consumption.
Just as the latest Steve project has been in development for > 3 years, so has accompanying software for it that will roll out into general public frameworks.
Android is in development for same time as iPhone, just iPhone was faster to market (kudos to Apple). There are some features (notifications, search...) that iPhone will play catchup game.
Even now, the 1 year old HTC G1 is obsolete and can?t even get v2.0, yet the original iPhone is retaining its value, will be updated at least up until the middle of next year and can get pretty much every app on the App Store.
This is just not true. Where you get the information about G1 and Android 2.0 from ? Neither Google nor T-Mobile never said that. Quite contrary, recent reports are positive G1 will get 2.0
It will be cut from the updates eventually, but so will be old iPhone models. iPhone already has 3 different HW sets (GPS and compass is missing from model to model).
Apple won't let you know about their plans, so you'll have much less time to react once new, different iPhone version appears.
What happens when they find out that their brand new phone won't run your app which has gotten five star ratings from everywhere?
Right now, all the phones that have Android Market on them can run any application in this Market or can be upgraded by system update to be able to do so. Android is aware it needs compact platform as developer's target and deliver just that. They face (and will face) the same set of challenges as Apple with their new respective models and backward compatibility.
But you try to FUD something which is not true right now.
This is just not true. Where you get the information about G1 and Android 2.0 from ? Neither Google nor T-Mobile never said that. Quite contrary, recent reports are positive G1 will get 2.0
The talk was the the G1 would be unable to officially get Eclair because it only has 256MB of onboard storage. HTC?s twitter has stated that the Hero will get v2.0 but no talk of the Dream/G1 despite v2.0 clearly being out. What is so pathetic about this issue with v2.0 is that the device launched in their first market 22/10/2008. That?s not even a year between v1.0 and v1.6 with unfortunate owners likely having to find stripped down versions of Eclair specifically for the G1 because HTC didn?t think ahead or jut said ?screw you? with rich OS updates. At least plan for a full 2 years of updates to coincide with typical 24-month contracts.
Quote:
It will be cut from the updates eventually, but so will be old iPhone models. iPhone already has 3 different HW sets (GPS and compass is missing from model to model).
Isn?t that just crazy?! A new phone having better and more HW features than the generation before it? Who would expect such a thing? The original iPhone is now getting at least 3 years of updates. Your ?brainless? assumption is failing to see that the original iPhone has changed dramatically from iPhone OS v1.0 to v3.1.2.
How is Android more homogenous than the iPhone? That doesn't make sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainless
There are two different things. One is Android OS which is free, open and you can do wahtever you want, even screw it into totally incompatible closed system.
Then there is Android "with Google" experience, with Android Market and other Google Apps, which is pretty homogenous platform (actually, right now, more homogenous than iPhone) - Google learned their lesson and is quite strict about platform fragmentation.
No its not the same challenges. The only challenge Apple faces with the iPhone is having apps that can work with newer and older hardware. Other than that the each version of the iPhone is exactly the same.
There can be vastly different variables between each Android phone. If Motorola, Samsung, and HTC make three different and incompatible versions of Android OS, that is a completely different situation than the iPhone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainless
Right now, all the phones that have Android Market on them can run any application in this Market or can be upgraded by system update to be able to do so. Android is aware it needs compact platform as developer's target and deliver just that. They face (and will face) the same set of challenges as Apple with their new respective models and backward compatibility.
But you try to FUD something which is not true right now.
My take on the Droid and its advertisements: Asimov's laws of robotics prevail: I ain't no robot, I'm a human, and no pip squeak little droidy smartphone is going to dictate my life.
LOL, the irony being that it's actually the iPhone that tells you what you can and can't do. That was the point of the Droid commercials in the first place. Why am I not surprised that you couldn't figure out how your comment made no sense.
There are two different things. One is Android OS which is free, open and you can do wahtever you want, even screw it into totally incompatible closed system.
Then there is Android "with Google" experience, with Android Market and other Google Apps, which is pretty homogenous platform (actually, right now, more homogenous than iPhone) - Google learned their lesson and is quite strict about platform fragmentation.
It won't remain homogenous for long. Google can do nothing to prevent the splitting up of the OS amongst vendors who will want to differentiate their own platform. As that happens, the platforms will diverge to the point that programs for one won't work on another.
I know that you think that won't happen, but it will.
This is just not true. Where you get the information about G1 and Android 2.0 from ? Neither Google nor T-Mobile never said that. Quite contrary, recent reports are positive G1 will get 2.0
It will be cut from the updates eventually, but so will be old iPhone models. iPhone already has 3 different HW sets (GPS and compass is missing from model to model).
Apple won't let you know about their plans, so you'll have much less time to react once new, different iPhone version appears.
Right now, it's hopeful that it will be. It isn't certain that it can be.
Right now, all the phones that have Android Market on them can run any application in this Market or can be upgraded by system update to be able to do so. Android is aware it needs compact platform as developer's target and deliver just that. They face (and will face) the same set of challenges as Apple with their new respective models and backward compatibility.
But you try to FUD something which is not true right now.
Right now, the Android "universe" has just begun. All phone are at this point in time, closer to each other than they will be in the future.
You talk about FUD. It's FUD to think that manufacturers are using Android because it's so lovely. They're using it because it's free, and they can do what they want with it. And that's exactly what they will do.
The difference between this and Apple's problem with compatibility is that withApple, a new device succeeds an older one, and people will upgrade if they want something newer. With Android, a half dozen manufacturers will have a couple of dozen phones out, and over time, if it's a success, possibly four dozen or more. None of those phones will be the same, from the cheapest free models to the most expensive multi hundred models, with a resultant large difference in functionality.
Each manufacturer, and even carrier, will conform their own phones as much as possible to one look and feel, as much as the price difference will allow. Each will add their own features, and restrict others. Google will have very little control over this.
Its what happened to Unix, Linux, and it will happen here.
Phone manufacturers see what has happened to the PC industry with everyone using the same Windows OS, which has turned the manufacturers into commodity machine makers, with little profit to show for their work. They won't want this to happen to them.
Look at Samsung, the second largest phone maker. They're going to use less and less of Android over time in favor of their own OS. But they have the money to do this, and the sales. Most other independent phone manufacturers don't, so Android it the poor man's choice for a customizable OS.
You can cry all you like about that, but it's true. And its already happening.
LOL, the irony being that it's actually the iPhone that tells you what you can and can't do. That was the point of the Droid commercials in the first place. Why am I not surprised that you couldn't figure out how your comment made no sense.
With over 100,000 apps in every category, there's very little you can't do with an iPhone. But the Droid is very limited in comparison.
I'd like to see my pro audio apps, and plug-in hardware being matched on an Android device. Ot medical hardware, or exercise hardware, or the myriad of other software and hardware that's coming out.
How many docks are available for audio and video systems?
With over 100,000 apps in every category, there's very little you can't do with an iPhone. But the Droid is very limited in comparison.
I'd like to see my pro audio apps, and plug-in hardware being matched on an Android device. Ot medical hardware, or exercise hardware, or the myriad of other software and hardware that's coming out.
How many docks are available for audio and video systems?
No, the Droid is very limited.
Isn't Apple the one shutting out programs that developers spent time working on? Isn't Apple the one preventing people from jailbreaking their phones? Is the concept of breaking out of "jail" on the iPhone known to you?
With over 100,000 apps in every category, there's very little you can't do with an iPhone. But the Droid is very limited in comparison.
I'd like to see my pro audio apps, and plug-in hardware being matched on an Android device. Ot medical hardware, or exercise hardware, or the myriad of other software and hardware that's coming out.
How many docks are available for audio and video systems?
No, the Droid is very limited.
Some of those things have merit but many so far have been ridiculous. As an example most people when shown the cost of GPS software and dock have noted it is as much as buying the hardware without the phone. I recently saw an example where someone came up with a whole external len and microphone for an iPhone pro video camera. It was silly and seemed easier to just go buy a real camcorder.
It is sort of like trying to turn the iPhone into a pro level camera. The question of why along with cost has to come into play.
Next to 100,000 accepted apps, the number of rejected apps is comparatively miniscule.
Plus anyone is free to make web apps that perform any function or contain any content they choose.
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro
Isn't Apple the one shutting out programs that developers spent time working on? Isn't Apple the one preventing people from jailbreaking their phones? Is the concept of breaking out of "jail" on the iPhone known to you?
The price of GPS apps has nothing directly to do with the iPhone, the GPS developer is free to charge what they believe people will pay.
Also your video camera example again has little to directly do with the usefulness of the iPhone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman
Some of those things have merit but many so far have been ridiculous. As an example most people when shown the cost of GPS software and dock have noted it is as much as buying the hardware without the phone. I recently saw an example where someone came up with a whole external len and microphone for an iPhone pro video camera. It was silly and seemed easier to just go buy a real camcorder.
It is sort of like trying to turn the iPhone into a pro level camera. The question of why along with cost has to come into play.
It won't remain homogenous for long. Google can do nothing to prevent the splitting up of the OS amongst vendors who will want to differentiate their own platform. As that happens, the platforms will diverge to the point that programs for one won't work on another.
I know that you think that won't happen, but it will.
Not true. Google can control a lot, you can take Android OS and screw it any way you like, but you won't get Market, Navigation, Search or any other Google app...which is pretty hefty price to "differentiate". Try to learn the facts first.
How is Android more homogenous than the iPhone? That doesn't make sense.
It does. Although the Android phones look different, the platform and hardware features are quite the same across all devices and manufacturers. iPhone generations sports different hardware, so each generation won't run same software even after system update. Makes sense now ?
It won't stay that way for too long, one day they will drop support of older devices, but right now they are ahead of Apple in terms of device fragmentation, although it might sound strange, with all that "same software, same hardware platform" hype of Apple.
With over 100,000 apps in every category, there's very little you can't do with an iPhone. But the Droid is very limited in comparison.
Out of your many FUD posts, this is easy the best one. Your statement is very UNTRUE. There is plenty of stuff you can't do with iPhone and many well designed aspects of the Android OS. How about background services, multitasking, inter-application cooperation (intents), notification system (even on off-line events), global search, map overlays and others ? This all is "iDon't" on the iPhone.
Out of those 100,000 apps, where is your SIP client ? Easy the most useful Android application to me.
Comments
Correct.
But then, will those phones really BE Android phones if they're incompatible?
Just like Linux. There is no such thing as a Linux OS, it's just a kernel.
With Android, it's a real OS, but if it can get differentiated enough, then what we'll see is Android BASED OS's.
In that case, can we really talk about Android vs Apple's iPhone OS? Or about RIM's OS, or Symbian, or Meamo. Or whatever?
There won't be 'AN" Android OS any longer, but a number of different, incompatible ones.
We'll need to talk about Motorola's OS, and HTC's OS, etc.
There are two different things. One is Android OS which is free, open and you can do wahtever you want, even screw it into totally incompatible closed system.
Then there is Android "with Google" experience, with Android Market and other Google Apps, which is pretty homogenous platform (actually, right now, more homogenous than iPhone) - Google learned their lesson and is quite strict about platform fragmentation.
You must account for the fact that the iPhone original created the direction this industry is attempting to reach.
This market is now highly profitable, due to the iPhone, and everyone is now attempting to be the next iPhone.
The risk taker in this market is Apple.
They are driving the areas of development and counter-development, not RIMM or Google or Moto or Nokia, etc.
All toolkits are attempting to match Cocoa Touch.
By the way, knowing as I do these guys the code they have upcoming has been in development for at least 18 months in many areas yet released for commercial consumption.
Just as the latest Steve project has been in development for > 3 years, so has accompanying software for it that will roll out into general public frameworks.
Android is in development for same time as iPhone, just iPhone was faster to market (kudos to Apple). There are some features (notifications, search...) that iPhone will play catchup game.
Even now, the 1 year old HTC G1 is obsolete and can?t even get v2.0, yet the original iPhone is retaining its value, will be updated at least up until the middle of next year and can get pretty much every app on the App Store.
This is just not true. Where you get the information about G1 and Android 2.0 from ? Neither Google nor T-Mobile never said that. Quite contrary, recent reports are positive G1 will get 2.0
It will be cut from the updates eventually, but so will be old iPhone models. iPhone already has 3 different HW sets (GPS and compass is missing from model to model).
Apple won't let you know about their plans, so you'll have much less time to react once new, different iPhone version appears.
What happens when they find out that their brand new phone won't run your app which has gotten five star ratings from everywhere?
Right now, all the phones that have Android Market on them can run any application in this Market or can be upgraded by system update to be able to do so. Android is aware it needs compact platform as developer's target and deliver just that. They face (and will face) the same set of challenges as Apple with their new respective models and backward compatibility.
But you try to FUD something which is not true right now.
This is just not true. Where you get the information about G1 and Android 2.0 from ? Neither Google nor T-Mobile never said that. Quite contrary, recent reports are positive G1 will get 2.0
The talk was the the G1 would be unable to officially get Eclair because it only has 256MB of onboard storage. HTC?s twitter has stated that the Hero will get v2.0 but no talk of the Dream/G1 despite v2.0 clearly being out. What is so pathetic about this issue with v2.0 is that the device launched in their first market 22/10/2008. That?s not even a year between v1.0 and v1.6 with unfortunate owners likely having to find stripped down versions of Eclair specifically for the G1 because HTC didn?t think ahead or jut said ?screw you? with rich OS updates. At least plan for a full 2 years of updates to coincide with typical 24-month contracts.
It will be cut from the updates eventually, but so will be old iPhone models. iPhone already has 3 different HW sets (GPS and compass is missing from model to model).
Isn?t that just crazy?! A new phone having better and more HW features than the generation before it? Who would expect such a thing?
You are so cute.
Just kidding, can't resist though.
Thanks...I guess?
There are two different things. One is Android OS which is free, open and you can do wahtever you want, even screw it into totally incompatible closed system.
Then there is Android "with Google" experience, with Android Market and other Google Apps, which is pretty homogenous platform (actually, right now, more homogenous than iPhone) - Google learned their lesson and is quite strict about platform fragmentation.
There can be vastly different variables between each Android phone. If Motorola, Samsung, and HTC make three different and incompatible versions of Android OS, that is a completely different situation than the iPhone.
Right now, all the phones that have Android Market on them can run any application in this Market or can be upgraded by system update to be able to do so. Android is aware it needs compact platform as developer's target and deliver just that. They face (and will face) the same set of challenges as Apple with their new respective models and backward compatibility.
But you try to FUD something which is not true right now.
My take on the Droid and its advertisements: Asimov's laws of robotics prevail: I ain't no robot, I'm a human, and no pip squeak little droidy smartphone is going to dictate my life.
LOL, the irony being that it's actually the iPhone that tells you what you can and can't do. That was the point of the Droid commercials in the first place. Why am I not surprised that you couldn't figure out how your comment made no sense.
There are two different things. One is Android OS which is free, open and you can do wahtever you want, even screw it into totally incompatible closed system.
Then there is Android "with Google" experience, with Android Market and other Google Apps, which is pretty homogenous platform (actually, right now, more homogenous than iPhone) - Google learned their lesson and is quite strict about platform fragmentation.
It won't remain homogenous for long. Google can do nothing to prevent the splitting up of the OS amongst vendors who will want to differentiate their own platform. As that happens, the platforms will diverge to the point that programs for one won't work on another.
I know that you think that won't happen, but it will.
This is just not true. Where you get the information about G1 and Android 2.0 from ? Neither Google nor T-Mobile never said that. Quite contrary, recent reports are positive G1 will get 2.0
It will be cut from the updates eventually, but so will be old iPhone models. iPhone already has 3 different HW sets (GPS and compass is missing from model to model).
Apple won't let you know about their plans, so you'll have much less time to react once new, different iPhone version appears.
Right now, it's hopeful that it will be. It isn't certain that it can be.
Right now, all the phones that have Android Market on them can run any application in this Market or can be upgraded by system update to be able to do so. Android is aware it needs compact platform as developer's target and deliver just that. They face (and will face) the same set of challenges as Apple with their new respective models and backward compatibility.
But you try to FUD something which is not true right now.
Right now, the Android "universe" has just begun. All phone are at this point in time, closer to each other than they will be in the future.
You talk about FUD. It's FUD to think that manufacturers are using Android because it's so lovely. They're using it because it's free, and they can do what they want with it. And that's exactly what they will do.
The difference between this and Apple's problem with compatibility is that withApple, a new device succeeds an older one, and people will upgrade if they want something newer. With Android, a half dozen manufacturers will have a couple of dozen phones out, and over time, if it's a success, possibly four dozen or more. None of those phones will be the same, from the cheapest free models to the most expensive multi hundred models, with a resultant large difference in functionality.
Each manufacturer, and even carrier, will conform their own phones as much as possible to one look and feel, as much as the price difference will allow. Each will add their own features, and restrict others. Google will have very little control over this.
Its what happened to Unix, Linux, and it will happen here.
Phone manufacturers see what has happened to the PC industry with everyone using the same Windows OS, which has turned the manufacturers into commodity machine makers, with little profit to show for their work. They won't want this to happen to them.
Look at Samsung, the second largest phone maker. They're going to use less and less of Android over time in favor of their own OS. But they have the money to do this, and the sales. Most other independent phone manufacturers don't, so Android it the poor man's choice for a customizable OS.
You can cry all you like about that, but it's true. And its already happening.
LOL, the irony being that it's actually the iPhone that tells you what you can and can't do. That was the point of the Droid commercials in the first place. Why am I not surprised that you couldn't figure out how your comment made no sense.
With over 100,000 apps in every category, there's very little you can't do with an iPhone. But the Droid is very limited in comparison.
I'd like to see my pro audio apps, and plug-in hardware being matched on an Android device. Ot medical hardware, or exercise hardware, or the myriad of other software and hardware that's coming out.
How many docks are available for audio and video systems?
No, the Droid is very limited.
With over 100,000 apps in every category, there's very little you can't do with an iPhone. But the Droid is very limited in comparison.
I'd like to see my pro audio apps, and plug-in hardware being matched on an Android device. Ot medical hardware, or exercise hardware, or the myriad of other software and hardware that's coming out.
How many docks are available for audio and video systems?
No, the Droid is very limited.
Isn't Apple the one shutting out programs that developers spent time working on? Isn't Apple the one preventing people from jailbreaking their phones? Is the concept of breaking out of "jail" on the iPhone known to you?
With over 100,000 apps in every category, there's very little you can't do with an iPhone. But the Droid is very limited in comparison.
I'd like to see my pro audio apps, and plug-in hardware being matched on an Android device. Ot medical hardware, or exercise hardware, or the myriad of other software and hardware that's coming out.
How many docks are available for audio and video systems?
No, the Droid is very limited.
Some of those things have merit but many so far have been ridiculous. As an example most people when shown the cost of GPS software and dock have noted it is as much as buying the hardware without the phone. I recently saw an example where someone came up with a whole external len and microphone for an iPhone pro video camera. It was silly and seemed easier to just go buy a real camcorder.
It is sort of like trying to turn the iPhone into a pro level camera. The question of why along with cost has to come into play.
Plus anyone is free to make web apps that perform any function or contain any content they choose.
Isn't Apple the one shutting out programs that developers spent time working on? Isn't Apple the one preventing people from jailbreaking their phones? Is the concept of breaking out of "jail" on the iPhone known to you?
Also your video camera example again has little to directly do with the usefulness of the iPhone.
Some of those things have merit but many so far have been ridiculous. As an example most people when shown the cost of GPS software and dock have noted it is as much as buying the hardware without the phone. I recently saw an example where someone came up with a whole external len and microphone for an iPhone pro video camera. It was silly and seemed easier to just go buy a real camcorder.
It is sort of like trying to turn the iPhone into a pro level camera. The question of why along with cost has to come into play.
It won't remain homogenous for long. Google can do nothing to prevent the splitting up of the OS amongst vendors who will want to differentiate their own platform. As that happens, the platforms will diverge to the point that programs for one won't work on another.
I know that you think that won't happen, but it will.
Not true. Google can control a lot, you can take Android OS and screw it any way you like, but you won't get Market, Navigation, Search or any other Google app...which is pretty hefty price to "differentiate". Try to learn the facts first.
How is Android more homogenous than the iPhone? That doesn't make sense.
It does. Although the Android phones look different, the platform and hardware features are quite the same across all devices and manufacturers. iPhone generations sports different hardware, so each generation won't run same software even after system update. Makes sense now ?
It won't stay that way for too long, one day they will drop support of older devices, but right now they are ahead of Apple in terms of device fragmentation, although it might sound strange, with all that "same software, same hardware platform" hype of Apple.
With over 100,000 apps in every category, there's very little you can't do with an iPhone. But the Droid is very limited in comparison.
Out of your many FUD posts, this is easy the best one. Your statement is very UNTRUE. There is plenty of stuff you can't do with iPhone and many well designed aspects of the Android OS. How about background services, multitasking, inter-application cooperation (intents), notification system (even on off-line events), global search, map overlays and others ? This all is "iDon't" on the iPhone.
Out of those 100,000 apps, where is your SIP client ? Easy the most useful Android application to me.