I must say, I like the design of the Courier concept as shown. I like it a lot. I would love to read an eBook on it, where you can have pages side-by-side just like a real book. I would love to browse the internet on it where you can have two browser windows on the two halves of the screen, or where you could have one window on one half and another application (or applications) or the file browser on the other half. I love that when held normally, the pages are in portrait orientation, which is much better for reading and for web browsing. It would also be great, as Palegolas mentioned, to work with a productivity application where the canvas or worksheet is on one side and the palettes on the other. To me it seems like a "why didn't anyone ever do this earlier" obvious concept.
For watching a movie you can simply watch on one half, in landscape.
I hope this isn't a patentable design, as I would love to see options in this form factor.
Love or hate Apple, love or hate MS, I think we can all agree that hardly anyone will be buying this or any other new tablet until a suitable time passes and Apple's tablet continues as rumor or becomes reality. Who in their right mind would plunk down money for this when there is even a remote chance that Apple releases the iPhone of tablets in the Spring?
Let's face it, techies are the first to buy this stuff. Techies are mostly guys. And as Seinfeld once said, men don't want to know what's on TV, they want to know what else is on TV.
I know a lot of it is just to do with bad taste, but why do the Windows aficionados have little or no regard for the English language? And why do they post with centred text - to be clever? And why do they have to be rude and insulting?
All symptomatic of the product and its low status. Ballmer sets the tone and they all follow blindly.
I will be sorely tempted to get one as it looks like it would be very useful for my work. But then, I'll also have to see what the iSlate does as well.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm dismissive about the "Courier" not because MS made the video but because it's so clearly nothing but a video. Which hasn't kept MS fanboys from trumpeting the slaughter of Apple at the hands of a resurgent Redmond, or something, and carrying on about what a triumph "it" is, which is pretty irritating in its own right. If all it took to dominate a market was a slick demo video, Minority Report would be the largest maker of computers in the world.
Believe me when i tell you that it cant be any more annoying than islate/itablet/idontcare speculation that seems to be on here and every other damn site...everyday....for the past 6 months...seriously. I dont think i've heard anyone say it was a Apple tablet killer, but if this comes to fruition (we'll see tonight hopefully) and is packing the UI elements shown in the video, then Apple will have a serious competitor on their hands more so than just the lame WindowsCE and Android devices that are out there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox
The problem being is that a functional, easy to use tablet really needs a complete rethink of the entire experience, not just a redressed and touch enabled version of a desktop OS. Your admiration for the Courier video is tacit agreement on this point-- what was shown is by no stretch of the imagination "Windows 7", no matter how much it has embraced touch optimization.
Windows fans seem to want to have it both ways-- a "real operating system" in Windows 7, but a radical reworking of what that means, ala the Courier video. I guess as long as its all imaginary you can kind of paper over the vast disparity between those two ideas, but a functioning device is going to have to confront reality.
At the same time, there seems to be a desire to label anything less than full, desktop OS X on an Apple device as "crippled" or "compromised", but that just exactly misses the point.
Your grossly over exaggerating your point. You could make a tablet easy/functional to use all day long but the fact of the matter is, if it cant find a reason to buy it over another product it wont sell.
I dont know what Courier fans you have been talking to, but everyone wants Windows 7 framework with the UI sitting on top of it that was shown.
I do find it funny though, you can easily sift through the thousands of posts on here about the Apple tablet. Most people (other than the hardcore Apple Lovers) DONT CARE. Quite a few people are taking a wait and see approach as to weather or not it is a full version of OSX or just a glorified iPhone OS
The main thing is not whether Windows 7 is good or not. I have a Macbook Aluminium and my PC at home for gaming (AMD+ATI) runs Windows 7. It is, the best Windows ever and I would never touch anything less now.
However, what most people should pause to consider is, is it a good thing that the Courier runs Windows 7? We'll have to evaluate the touch-tablet-etc-functionality running on top of Windows 7 to see how things go.
Is it a good thing that the iPhone runs OSX? Well yeah. The question will be how much MS customizes windows for the tablet. The advantage is that Win7 isn't as bloated as Vista was.
I will be sorely tempted to get one as it looks like it would be very useful for my work. But then, I'll also have to see what the iSlate does as well.
The interesting thing is that MS has more UI (or UX as some like to be called now) folks than Apple. Given how powerful WPF and XAML has been proven to have been and how easy multitouch has been to code for WPF implementing courier seems feasible.
Jeez, I seriously need to get out of the Java world.
The advantage is that Win7 isn't as bloated as Vista was.
The disadvantages are that Windows 7 is still Windows, and if the Courier is loaded with that operating system, for all intents and purposes, it'll be infected.
I hope MS + HP raises the bar for Apple. It should be better than the shitty state the smartphone mobile industry was in before Apple introduced the iPhone. That gave Apple the room to delay features on the iPhone which should have been standard since day 1.
Apple fanatics switch from Delusionberry Kool-Aid to Lemon Haterade
More at 11...
Seriously you guys are just ridiculous. If the Courier makes its appearance i expect a sock in everyones mouth. Apple's Tablet is even more vaporware than MS Courier (but i guess since everyone and their grandma talks about it...it MUST BE REAL?!!)
To put it like this, if they show off a physical Courier that did exactly what that video showcased awhile back and comes with a decent price tag...well this Magical Unicorn Tablet had better blow the doors off, cause i was definitely wowed by the Courier, so much in fact that i would sell my Hackintosh for one if it truly comes out this year.
As far as I know, the Apple tablet does not even exist. I can't recall Apple ever commenting on the thing.
MS likes to try to do the "wow" factor. But more often than not, it fails in the end.
This MS Courier thing can't be all that cheap. Surely two smaller (7"?) screens cost more than one larger 10" screen. Going by the demo I had seen, it seems like it would need a pretty good CPU/GPU as well.
Not positive if HP is someone I would want to go with for the design of the hardware?
I will be sorely tempted to get one as it looks like it would be very useful for my work. But then, I'll also have to see what the iSlate does as well.
Looks nice. Maybe too nice. I just don't know if it can be THAT fluid of an interface.
It would need some pretty good horsepower. What about battery life?
I have no idea why you think pointing out that a video isn't anything more than concept makes me mad or bent out of shape.
Probably because you go into attack mode even at the word Courier...
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox
Well, that's an interesting chicken and egg question. Tablets haven't been appealing because they don't serve a purpose because they're not appealing.
"Appealing" isn't just cosmetics, it has to do with how a device is perceived, how it fits into ones life, how the user relates to it, and how easy it is to just pick up and use. I would guess that all of those things were at the forefront of Apple's mind when they were designing their whatever it is.
MS and its hardware partners apparently do not think like this, so it's no wonder their tablets haven't caught on. It's like "Look! The Windows you know and love, with touch! On a flat thing!"
This is where your argument falls and where Apple has to make a serious attempt to change that. Tablets have only been useful for having to be ULTRA MOBILE. Quite a few people already have the writing on the wall for the Apple Tablet...
Take the Apple Blinders off and think logically here. Here is a traditional Tablet
1. Forces one handed use
2. Inefficient for typing
3. Expensive add-ons to make it function like a desktop like a keyboard/mouse/stand
4. Expensive...
5. Zero reason to buy one when a better device called a laptop is out and does nearly the same thing.
6. Compatibility issues
Now we expect the Tablet to do atleast...
1. Surf the Web
2. Email
3. Watch/view Media/itunes (hopefully content is 720p)
4. Ebooks
5. Some kind of Apps (either iPhone or full OS X)
6. Digital Photography (has a camera i heard)
7. Memo notepad Touch based.
This is just what i can roll off the top of my head, and sadly 1-6 are easily accomplished via a iPhone or MacBook. Now i am missing a few features but seriously where do you see this fitting in at? The reason Tablets in general havent been successful is because they just dont fit, and arent exactly ergonomic...if the Courier is real, it would benefit heavily from having a laptop style form factor and if the Apple Tablet is just a 10inch slab, thats a slightly harder sell to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox
Are you sure about that? What was shown seemed to be the very definition of a niche device-- a thing that builds its possible uses into the hardware, disallowing a bunch of other uses. I mean, if you really need a journal/scrap book/research/PIM that's great, but I don't see that as being the breakthrough form factor.
At any rate, I don't think MS is under any obligation to release a "Courier", since all they did was make a video without any claims to planning to build the thing.
Being a laptop form factor, and what was shown in the video, lets say education makes a push towards ebooks. This would work for every class already. On screen keyboard and handwriting memo apps means i could jump from English to Physics without skipping a beat. If it uses Windows 7, that means i can jump straight into apps without having to worry about compatibility or having to have laptop just to type a paper.
Lets be honest, if this thing is real, and if it is comparable to atleast a netbook (which aint hard) and isnt grossly overpriced i could see these devices breaking the trend that they are set to go up against.
If something like the Courier is shown tomorrow, kudos to HP and Microsoft.
Still, I couldn't care less. The problem, and it's a big one, is it will still be a Windows machine. It will bring with it all that's inherently wrong and bad that operating system.
Windows 7, frankly, is not that bad. I built a desktop with Win 7 and its pretty nice. Still have a Macbook also as well as a Apple TV and a couple of iPhones. Very interested in the Tablet if it indeed does exist (pretty sure but not 100% positive yet).
But at the end of the day, I do still prefer Mac OS X though the gap closed a slight bit with Windows 7. Its what Vista should have been obviously.
The disadvantages are that Windows 7 is still Windows, and if the Courier is loaded with that operating system, for all intents and purposes, it'll be infected.
You've spoken like someone whos A) Never used Windows 7 a Porn addict C) a software pirate or D) the idiot who clicks emails people with common sense would never click...
Ive gone years on XP before i got my G5 and hadnt had a virus in 3 years and thats running no Anti-Virus garbage (i dont like resource hogs)
If MS shows something that looks anything like that Courier concept I'll eat my hat. Expect to see a touch tablet with a little bit of case bling and a few bells and whistles, maybe running some version of WinCE for an OS and maybe with some Zune style animations. Probably Xbox ties ins, and pitched as an email/video/game/media device.
Not much different from the various small tablets that have been floating around for a while now, in other words, but MS probably feels like they have to at least pretend to have a dog in that hunt.
What is so amazing about the fake courier concept? Being able to save pictures from the web? Oooo. Killer feature. The thing looks like an overcomplicated design company software GUI from 1994.
The disadvantages are that Windows 7 is still Windows, and if the Courier is loaded with that operating system, for all intents and purposes, it'll be infected.
It's easy to spot people who've never used Windows 7. Windows 7 may be Windows, but I've gone months using it as the only operating system on one of my computers and its needed less maintaining than my iMac in that period.
Speak for yourself, Win7 is a win for windows. Any tablet device would be lucky to have it. As long as its NOT Starter, because Starter is NOT windows7, at ALL.
So they'd end up with silvery aluminum enclosures and glossy screens? Why be different?
I wish Apple would hire Ive to update their 7 or 8 year old laptop line... 7 or 8 years in the electronics industry is like 412 dog years, I believe.
Think Same.
The MacBook Pros are the best engineered and constructed laptops in the entire industry, without a doubt. The original slim, metallic, widescreen form factor was conceived with the Titanium PowerBook G4, and has been steadily improved upon. Why change a product that has gotten it right?
Change for the sake of change is stupid. But it sounds like that's exactly what you're advocating.
It'll be interesting to see whether you're right or not, but I suspect your vision is closer to what we'll see than that video that got passed around a few months ago. Personally, I'm ambivalent about the Courier. The concept was very cool, but Microsoft seems unable to bring true innovation to market.
To me, one of the most interesting things about the Courier was the glimpse it gives into the Microsoft process. There are some imaginative people trapped inside that company, but their ideas obviously never percolate to the outside world. What must it be like to be a clever person, trapped inside a company like that?
At least Xerox PARC's innovations were seen & appreciated by the outside world. (Why Xerox so rarely managed to capitalize on their own brilliant ideas is another matter).
Back to the Courier. I could easily see them having a really cool concept and then, in their rush to bring it to market, produce a half-baked kludge that ECHOES the concept but fails to embody it. Sort of the opposite of what was rumored to have happened with the iPhone: right before he was due to announce the thing, Mr Jobs reportedly decided it wasn't ready yet, and he told everybody to go back and get it right — and we didn't see the real deal for another year, as a result... incredible! If that story is true, it's the antithesis of what I suspect will happen with the Courier.
Microsoft is the FORD assembly line of it's market. A few new accessories every few years and an increased price.
Comments
For watching a movie you can simply watch on one half, in landscape.
I hope this isn't a patentable design, as I would love to see options in this form factor.
Let's face it, techies are the first to buy this stuff. Techies are mostly guys. And as Seinfeld once said, men don't want to know what's on TV, they want to know what else is on TV.
All symptomatic of the product and its low status. Ballmer sets the tone and they all follow blindly.
http://www.alltabletnews.com/2009/12...-nice-concept/
I will be sorely tempted to get one as it looks like it would be very useful for my work. But then, I'll also have to see what the iSlate does as well.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm dismissive about the "Courier" not because MS made the video but because it's so clearly nothing but a video. Which hasn't kept MS fanboys from trumpeting the slaughter of Apple at the hands of a resurgent Redmond, or something, and carrying on about what a triumph "it" is, which is pretty irritating in its own right. If all it took to dominate a market was a slick demo video, Minority Report would be the largest maker of computers in the world.
Believe me when i tell you that it cant be any more annoying than islate/itablet/idontcare speculation that seems to be on here and every other damn site...everyday....for the past 6 months...seriously. I dont think i've heard anyone say it was a Apple tablet killer, but if this comes to fruition (we'll see tonight hopefully) and is packing the UI elements shown in the video, then Apple will have a serious competitor on their hands more so than just the lame WindowsCE and Android devices that are out there.
The problem being is that a functional, easy to use tablet really needs a complete rethink of the entire experience, not just a redressed and touch enabled version of a desktop OS. Your admiration for the Courier video is tacit agreement on this point-- what was shown is by no stretch of the imagination "Windows 7", no matter how much it has embraced touch optimization.
Windows fans seem to want to have it both ways-- a "real operating system" in Windows 7, but a radical reworking of what that means, ala the Courier video. I guess as long as its all imaginary you can kind of paper over the vast disparity between those two ideas, but a functioning device is going to have to confront reality.
At the same time, there seems to be a desire to label anything less than full, desktop OS X on an Apple device as "crippled" or "compromised", but that just exactly misses the point.
Your grossly over exaggerating your point. You could make a tablet easy/functional to use all day long but the fact of the matter is, if it cant find a reason to buy it over another product it wont sell.
I dont know what Courier fans you have been talking to, but everyone wants Windows 7 framework with the UI sitting on top of it that was shown.
I do find it funny though, you can easily sift through the thousands of posts on here about the Apple tablet. Most people (other than the hardcore Apple Lovers) DONT CARE. Quite a few people are taking a wait and see approach as to weather or not it is a full version of OSX or just a glorified iPhone OS
The main thing is not whether Windows 7 is good or not. I have a Macbook Aluminium and my PC at home for gaming (AMD+ATI) runs Windows 7. It is, the best Windows ever and I would never touch anything less now.
However, what most people should pause to consider is, is it a good thing that the Courier runs Windows 7? We'll have to evaluate the touch-tablet-etc-functionality running on top of Windows 7 to see how things go.
Is it a good thing that the iPhone runs OSX? Well yeah. The question will be how much MS customizes windows for the tablet. The advantage is that Win7 isn't as bloated as Vista was.
If the MS Tablet is indeed the concept Courier depicted in this Youtube video:
http://www.alltabletnews.com/2009/12...-nice-concept/
I will be sorely tempted to get one as it looks like it would be very useful for my work. But then, I'll also have to see what the iSlate does as well.
The interesting thing is that MS has more UI (or UX as some like to be called now) folks than Apple. Given how powerful WPF and XAML has been proven to have been and how easy multitouch has been to code for WPF implementing courier seems feasible.
Jeez, I seriously need to get out of the Java world.
I like both concepts. I'd like them better if Jonathan Ive got his hands on them.
So they'd end up with silvery aluminum enclosures and glossy screens? Why be different?
I wish Apple would hire Ive to update their 7 or 8 year old laptop line... 7 or 8 years in the electronics industry is like 412 dog years, I believe.
Think Same.
The advantage is that Win7 isn't as bloated as Vista was.
The disadvantages are that Windows 7 is still Windows, and if the Courier is loaded with that operating system, for all intents and purposes, it'll be infected.
BREAKING NEWS STORY!!!
Apple fanatics switch from Delusionberry Kool-Aid to Lemon Haterade
More at 11...
Seriously you guys are just ridiculous. If the Courier makes its appearance i expect a sock in everyones mouth. Apple's Tablet is even more vaporware than MS Courier (but i guess since everyone and their grandma talks about it...it MUST BE REAL?!!)
To put it like this, if they show off a physical Courier that did exactly what that video showcased awhile back and comes with a decent price tag...well this Magical Unicorn Tablet had better blow the doors off, cause i was definitely wowed by the Courier, so much in fact that i would sell my Hackintosh for one if it truly comes out this year.
As far as I know, the Apple tablet does not even exist. I can't recall Apple ever commenting on the thing.
MS likes to try to do the "wow" factor. But more often than not, it fails in the end.
Well, they still have Windows and Office.
Not positive if HP is someone I would want to go with for the design of the hardware?
If the MS Tablet is indeed the concept Courier depicted in this Youtube video:
http://www.alltabletnews.com/2009/12...-nice-concept/
I will be sorely tempted to get one as it looks like it would be very useful for my work. But then, I'll also have to see what the iSlate does as well.
Looks nice. Maybe too nice. I just don't know if it can be THAT fluid of an interface.
It would need some pretty good horsepower. What about battery life?
Screams expensive.
I guess we will see.
I have no idea why you think pointing out that a video isn't anything more than concept makes me mad or bent out of shape.
Probably because you go into attack mode even at the word Courier...
Well, that's an interesting chicken and egg question. Tablets haven't been appealing because they don't serve a purpose because they're not appealing.
"Appealing" isn't just cosmetics, it has to do with how a device is perceived, how it fits into ones life, how the user relates to it, and how easy it is to just pick up and use. I would guess that all of those things were at the forefront of Apple's mind when they were designing their whatever it is.
MS and its hardware partners apparently do not think like this, so it's no wonder their tablets haven't caught on. It's like "Look! The Windows you know and love, with touch! On a flat thing!"
This is where your argument falls and where Apple has to make a serious attempt to change that. Tablets have only been useful for having to be ULTRA MOBILE. Quite a few people already have the writing on the wall for the Apple Tablet...
Take the Apple Blinders off and think logically here. Here is a traditional Tablet
1. Forces one handed use
2. Inefficient for typing
3. Expensive add-ons to make it function like a desktop like a keyboard/mouse/stand
4. Expensive...
5. Zero reason to buy one when a better device called a laptop is out and does nearly the same thing.
6. Compatibility issues
Now we expect the Tablet to do atleast...
1. Surf the Web
2. Email
3. Watch/view Media/itunes (hopefully content is 720p)
4. Ebooks
5. Some kind of Apps (either iPhone or full OS X)
6. Digital Photography (has a camera i heard)
7. Memo notepad Touch based.
This is just what i can roll off the top of my head, and sadly 1-6 are easily accomplished via a iPhone or MacBook. Now i am missing a few features but seriously where do you see this fitting in at? The reason Tablets in general havent been successful is because they just dont fit, and arent exactly ergonomic...if the Courier is real, it would benefit heavily from having a laptop style form factor and if the Apple Tablet is just a 10inch slab, thats a slightly harder sell to me.
Are you sure about that? What was shown seemed to be the very definition of a niche device-- a thing that builds its possible uses into the hardware, disallowing a bunch of other uses. I mean, if you really need a journal/scrap book/research/PIM that's great, but I don't see that as being the breakthrough form factor.
At any rate, I don't think MS is under any obligation to release a "Courier", since all they did was make a video without any claims to planning to build the thing.
Being a laptop form factor, and what was shown in the video, lets say education makes a push towards ebooks. This would work for every class already. On screen keyboard and handwriting memo apps means i could jump from English to Physics without skipping a beat. If it uses Windows 7, that means i can jump straight into apps without having to worry about compatibility or having to have laptop just to type a paper.
Lets be honest, if this thing is real, and if it is comparable to atleast a netbook (which aint hard) and isnt grossly overpriced i could see these devices breaking the trend that they are set to go up against.
Me too.
If something like the Courier is shown tomorrow, kudos to HP and Microsoft.
Still, I couldn't care less. The problem, and it's a big one, is it will still be a Windows machine. It will bring with it all that's inherently wrong and bad that operating system.
Windows 7, frankly, is not that bad. I built a desktop with Win 7 and its pretty nice. Still have a Macbook also as well as a Apple TV and a couple of iPhones. Very interested in the Tablet if it indeed does exist (pretty sure but not 100% positive yet).
But at the end of the day, I do still prefer Mac OS X though the gap closed a slight bit with Windows 7. Its what Vista should have been obviously.
The disadvantages are that Windows 7 is still Windows, and if the Courier is loaded with that operating system, for all intents and purposes, it'll be infected.
You've spoken like someone whos A) Never used Windows 7
Ive gone years on XP before i got my G5 and hadnt had a virus in 3 years and thats running no Anti-Virus garbage (i dont like resource hogs)
If MS shows something that looks anything like that Courier concept I'll eat my hat. Expect to see a touch tablet with a little bit of case bling and a few bells and whistles, maybe running some version of WinCE for an OS and maybe with some Zune style animations. Probably Xbox ties ins, and pitched as an email/video/game/media device.
Not much different from the various small tablets that have been floating around for a while now, in other words, but MS probably feels like they have to at least pretend to have a dog in that hunt.
What is so amazing about the fake courier concept? Being able to save pictures from the web? Oooo. Killer feature. The thing looks like an overcomplicated design company software GUI from 1994.
The disadvantages are that Windows 7 is still Windows, and if the Courier is loaded with that operating system, for all intents and purposes, it'll be infected.
It's easy to spot people who've never used Windows 7. Windows 7 may be Windows, but I've gone months using it as the only operating system on one of my computers and its needed less maintaining than my iMac in that period.
Speak for yourself, Win7 is a win for windows. Any tablet device would be lucky to have it. As long as its NOT Starter, because Starter is NOT windows7, at ALL.
So they'd end up with silvery aluminum enclosures and glossy screens? Why be different?
I wish Apple would hire Ive to update their 7 or 8 year old laptop line... 7 or 8 years in the electronics industry is like 412 dog years, I believe.
Think Same.
The MacBook Pros are the best engineered and constructed laptops in the entire industry, without a doubt. The original slim, metallic, widescreen form factor was conceived with the Titanium PowerBook G4, and has been steadily improved upon. Why change a product that has gotten it right?
Change for the sake of change is stupid. But it sounds like that's exactly what you're advocating.
It'll be interesting to see whether you're right or not, but I suspect your vision is closer to what we'll see than that video that got passed around a few months ago. Personally, I'm ambivalent about the Courier. The concept was very cool, but Microsoft seems unable to bring true innovation to market.
To me, one of the most interesting things about the Courier was the glimpse it gives into the Microsoft process. There are some imaginative people trapped inside that company, but their ideas obviously never percolate to the outside world. What must it be like to be a clever person, trapped inside a company like that?
At least Xerox PARC's innovations were seen & appreciated by the outside world. (Why Xerox so rarely managed to capitalize on their own brilliant ideas is another matter).
Back to the Courier. I could easily see them having a really cool concept and then, in their rush to bring it to market, produce a half-baked kludge that ECHOES the concept but fails to embody it. Sort of the opposite of what was rumored to have happened with the iPhone: right before he was due to announce the thing, Mr Jobs reportedly decided it wasn't ready yet, and he told everybody to go back and get it right — and we didn't see the real deal for another year, as a result... incredible! If that story is true, it's the antithesis of what I suspect will happen with the Courier.
Microsoft is the FORD assembly line of it's market. A few new accessories every few years and an increased price.