YOU actually have the audacity to post this nonsense given the persistent obtuse attitudes expressed by the vast majority of Apple fans in this forum?
Any opinion not completely enamored with all things Cupertino are treated with extreme hostility in here, yet you accuse others of being rude simply because they use centered text'?
Hilarious!
As an Apple user of some 3 decades, I truly miss the time when we were encouraged to Think Different, because now it appears that too many Apple supporters simply fall in line blindly.
As far as this Hp/MS rumor goes, I'm getting the impression that you (and your like) are simply afraid that the device will be the Courier as previously shown in theoretical form, and that's something that you appear to fear.
[/CENTER]
I'm pretty sure he implied that using centred text was more indicative of a juvenile, confrontational attitude rather than as you say "rudeness." I must say you've proven his point quite succinctly too.
PS - You're not fooling anyone with the "Apple user of some 3 decades" bit.
PPS - The Courier is both vapourware and yet simultaneously a poorly thought out mess of a product that no one at Apple has any reason to be scared of. It looks like something designed by Kramer from the Seinfeld show. "Ya gotta see this thing Jerry! It's like a book, but it's a computer! But it's shaped like a book!!"
All these guys are going to go down in flames. Why ? Simple.
They cannot produce anything original.
The only reason they are releasing a tablet is because Apple is releasing one not because they have a product that we the public want.
Until MS, HP, Dell, and the rest of the Windows gang start innovating and stop trying to beat Apple they will crash and burn.
Of course there will be a huge market for the product because it will cost $200 and do nothing well. But then Windows was never about quality or security or passion or excellence or any of those adjectives. It was always about making money by selling crap.
Microsoft, HP, Dell, - these guys are the Walmart of computing - lots of cheap crap.
I still prefer to shop at Nordstrom, and Neiman Marcus.
Shutdown is under the Windows logo button (use to be the start button) on Windows 7... Makes sense (just like shutdown is under the Apple logo button).
Did it make sense for Apple to put their shutdown command under the "special menu"???
Windows 7 UI has improved to nearly Mac OS X levels...
are you implying that the apple menu and the start button are even similar things? what are you talking about?
I'll bet this is just another FUD presentation by Microsoft, to try to get consumers to hold off on buying Apple's products until they can ship a mobile operating system somebody actually wants to use.
Promise the moon, maybe deliver some mud in six months, or just forget to actually ship. Especially since Microsoft still is jerking people along with Windows Mobile 2010 edition.
Actually it will probably be the reverse this time. Nobody is going to buy anything until they know what Apple has up their sleeve. The iPod and iPhone has cured that syndrome.
The AAPL slate isn't about hardware, it's about content delivery! While the PC industry has eagerly awaited AAPL's new product, AAPL went behind their backs and made pacts with all the media companies to deliver their content.
[CENTER]As someone who had a great experience with the HP TX1100, the first real consumer-level slate/tablet capable of running a REAL operating system, I feel quite confident that this new generation of MS/Hp Tablet will be quite impressive, and if it is based on the Courier prototypes, it'll be stellar!
Apple... Your Move[/CENTER]
As someone who used an HP tx2000, let me say this...
Microsoft, the courier is a really neat idea. It would be a great, professional tablet. Don't let HP make it. The tx2000 was, without a doubt, the worst computer I have ever used. The wifi card died, it ran way too hot and burned my lap or my arm and a month ago had such a bad power failure that it wont turn on no matter what. Why did all this happen? Because HP put it together so badly and used the worst parts. I get what I paid for but DAMN! Keep in mind that this was the SECOND one I had, because the first one they sent me didn't work at all. The screen died within the first twenty four hours.
So please, if this is the courier, do not depend on HP.
I bet quite a few here own an Xbox 360 and love it. When it comes down to it, you're all happy enough to give Microsoft a constant supply of money. Funny how the same people who preach about build quality and total cost of ownership go and buy the worst console out there in terms of build quality and reliability instead of PS3 which is better in every respect.
"Apple's Tablet is even more vaporware than MS Courier"....since when does apple send out press releases about products not announced? Yea we ALL saw the demo video of the RUMORED apple tablet.
You do not know the difference between vaporware and rumors.....
If the Courier makes its appearance...I mean you can not even decide if this will ever be released, but still lay out some hope with your captivated stockholm syndrone that you have received from the past failed MS vaporware...
I think everyone is a little tired of your juvenile attacks, with your ad hominem attacks for pointing out the regular modus operandi of M$
And you accuse others of rapid fanboyism? You are battered housewife of MS who constantly defends the abuser and attacks others who try to point out that you are being abused...LOL..
Please don't feed the trolls!
Sad, pathetic individuals like that particular user, who by his own username's admission is a failure, generally get a kick out of people responding to their online furor. They are best ignored. He can then go back to making puerile comments and sending unfunny emails to people he doesn't know on bookface.
The term gewgaw is largely considered archaic (circa 1529 - LOL!) by today's vocabulary standards, and let's be honest here - had it not been used in this forum tonight you (probably) wouldn't have even known its meaning or that it is (in fact) considered archaic.
Now about that Hp/MS Courier announcement tomorrow... I Hope It's An Incredible Device![/CENTER]
[RIGHT]Perhaps I am archaic, but I use the term all the time.
I really liked the concept animation, but this announcement seems rushed and ill-timed. Without some developer support to waltz around the stage this is going to go off like a lead balloon. The rumor out there is that iPhone apps will run on Apple's tablet - that's a huge, inexpensive resource that MS/HP will find very hard to counter without at least a few must-have killer apps. The lack of hype surrounding this announcement makes me wonder if this is just another piece of hardware running Windows, rather than a new UI experience. Not sure I would buy one no matter what, but that would suck.
Actually it will probably be the reverse this time. Nobody is going to buy anything until they know what Apple has up their sleeve. The iPod and iPhone has cured that syndrome.
Whatever this Microsoft/HP tablet is, it probably wouldn't be out before the Apple tablet anyway. Think of the Pre, it came out a week before the iPhone 3GS despite being introduced 6 months earlier at CES. Apple holds their products close to their chest further into the development cycle than others. Microsoft is especially notorious for introducing concepts and taking forever to put them on sale.
This sucks for them. Many are expecting something that breaks new ground. This doesn't look to be the case but final judgement will have to wait until this new "product" reveals itself. Kids, this is why you don't release cool concept videos of products that aren't ready for prime time.
But MS has done a poor job in managing expectations and could end up looking like they can't produce innovative products.
I was going to watch the Ars feed of the CES keynote but now I'm not sure it'll be worth the time. Its not like I haven't seen videos of Ballmer sweating up on stage before.
Really, talk of a "Courier" as if it were any kind of product at all, much less a game changer that would put the ball in Apple's court, was always way off the mark IMO.
I think we can look forward to more of the same from Ballmer and MS. A Windows tablet with somewhat better touch integration that still doesn't bother to ask, let alone answer, some basic questions regarding why such a device is necessary.
I don't know that Apple has come come up with a satisfactory answer either, but I know that they have at least given it a lot of thought and endeavored to design something that rethinks the entire experience.
This sucks for them. Many are expecting something that breaks new ground. This doesn't look to be the case but final judgement will have to wait until this new "product" reveals itself. Kids, this is why you don't release cool concept videos of products that aren't ready for prime time.
But MS has done a poor job in managing expectations and could end up looking like they can't produce innovative products.
I was going to watch the Ars feed of the CES keynote but now I'm not sure it'll be worth the time. Its not like I haven't seen videos of Ballmer sweating up on stage before.
Was "Courier" ever anything more than a "leaked" animation? I don't recall MS saying much of anything, then or now, about any intention of ever building anything like this. It seems like most or all of the expectation came from carried-away tech heads that seemed to be under the impression that a rendered conceptual video was tantamount to a product announcement.
And then some people combined that with a random announcement about an HP tablet and just leapt to conclusions. It didn't really make much sense that MS would be releasing an extremely out-of-left-field product without any kind of press or build-up at all by whipping it out at the CES keynote. So I don't think it really "sucks for them", in that they never made any claims.
Really, talk of a "Courier" as if it were any kind of product at all, much less a game changer that would put the ball in Apple's court, was always way off the mark IMO.
I think we can look forward to more of the same from Ballmer and MS. A Windows tablet with somewhat better touch integration that still doesn't bother to ask, let alone answer, some basic questions regarding why such a device is necessary.
I don't know that Apple has come come up with a satisfactory answer either, but I know that they have at least given it a lot of thought and endeavored to design something that rethinks the entire experience.
Wow, what a collection toasty comments here today. Might as well throw my hat into the ring...
Thing is, I don't really see vaporware from either side. I've seen concept videos, and rumors, but no official announcements from any company.
With that said, based upon all the speculation, I think there are some great ideas for tablet features coming in from all directions.
Some of the ideas from the 'courier' concept aren't bad. Do they actually exist? Who knows. I don't think MS can really pull off a successful product in this category, but they might, we'll just have to wait and see if/when they make an actual announcement (and we see an actual product).
Some of the ideas from the rumored Apple tablet sound great, but those are all pure speculation since Apple says absolutely nothing about products in advance nor do they release concept videos. I hope they have something to announce later this month, but we don't even know if or what they are planning to say.
As for OS arguments, sure Win7 can work with "touch" input - that's been possible since Win95 (with or without support from MS). MacOS X also supports touch input, again it's been possible for ages. Better APIs and support are being baked into both OSes. There has been a difference in product releases though. MS has been pounding the touch drum, and Apple has shied away from touch screens except on mobiles (iPhone/touch).
Apple zealots need to accept that Win7 will likely prove to be the best OS MS has released so far, and it's not completely terrible. They have 'borrowed' enough tech from other OSes (not just Mac) to make it usable, and even come up with a few ideas of their own *gasp*.
MS zealots need to accept that Win7 is still inherently Windows, and the vulnerability problem has been improved but not solved, and Win is still unintuitive - and with Win7 it's become even more 'busy' and distracting. MacOS X is the opposite - nimble, clean, intuitive, and stays out of your way so you can get work done.
In relation to the tablet computer concept, I'm not sure if a full desktop OS (from either camp) is a good idea or not. I'm betting Apple, if they are making a tablet, will use the iPhone OS (which is MacOS X lite) to run it. I'm not sure that's such a good idea. I personally don't want a 'slate' size iPod. I don't see the point. From MS, just slapping Win7 on a touchscreen device is no solution. I've used Windows on a touch screen, and I'm not at all impressed. A menu driven OS just doesn't work for a touch environment (despite various UI paradigms that have been slapped on top). At least Apple figured that out.
I would personally like a full touch-input MacOS X computer in a tablet form factor, where the touch UI has been refined like that of the iPhone, but where I can still have all the features (like access to the file system) of a full MacOS X computer. In the Apple camp, I don't see any "meeting of the minds" - I see iPhone on one end, and MacOS on the other, but I want a meeting in the middle - full MacOS X with iPhone UI.
All we can really do at this point is wait and see. Once we can get real products in our hot little hands, then we can more effectively praise or criticize.
I actually agree that the Courier concept looks interesting, but until this kind of tech gets a lot cheaper there's little chance of it appearing.
For $100 or so, I would seriously consider a little appointment book/scrap book/web browser thing that would serve as a replacement to a sketchbook/PIM. But for much more than that, I would want a flexible device that could do all kinds of things. The very hardware design that makes the Courier concept so appealing for a limited set of tasks make it unsuitable for a great deal more.
And, as I and others have remarked, I'm not so sure that trading width and depth for thickness is all that big of a win, considering the drawbacks, when you could do all of that with a single screen. Twin, interacting panes when you want to use your tablet in "Courier" mode, one screen when you want to surf, look at media, or run apps full screen. For that matter, everything shown in the Courier animation could be achieved with a single app, designed for notebooking/archiving/research, with some simple hooks to a browser and system wide data bases.
Comments
"But all eyes will be on Mr. Ballmer this week to see if Microsoft and HP and can out-Apple Apple before Apple Apples."
you gotta love this...
I'm hoping for a monkey dance and lots of sweat
[CENTER]Seriously...
YOU actually have the audacity to post this nonsense given the persistent obtuse attitudes expressed by the vast majority of Apple fans in this forum?
Any opinion not completely enamored with all things Cupertino are treated with extreme hostility in here, yet you accuse others of being rude simply because they use centered text'?
Hilarious!
As an Apple user of some 3 decades, I truly miss the time when we were encouraged to Think Different, because now it appears that too many Apple supporters simply fall in line blindly.
As far as this Hp/MS rumor goes, I'm getting the impression that you (and your like) are simply afraid that the device will be the Courier as previously shown in theoretical form, and that's something that you appear to fear.
[/CENTER]
I'm pretty sure he implied that using centred text was more indicative of a juvenile, confrontational attitude rather than as you say "rudeness." I must say you've proven his point quite succinctly too.
PS - You're not fooling anyone with the "Apple user of some 3 decades" bit.
PPS - The Courier is both vapourware and yet simultaneously a poorly thought out mess of a product that no one at Apple has any reason to be scared of. It looks like something designed by Kramer from the Seinfeld show. "Ya gotta see this thing Jerry! It's like a book, but it's a computer! But it's shaped like a book!!"
They cannot produce anything original.
The only reason they are releasing a tablet is because Apple is releasing one not because they have a product that we the public want.
Until MS, HP, Dell, and the rest of the Windows gang start innovating and stop trying to beat Apple they will crash and burn.
Of course there will be a huge market for the product because it will cost $200 and do nothing well. But then Windows was never about quality or security or passion or excellence or any of those adjectives. It was always about making money by selling crap.
Microsoft, HP, Dell, - these guys are the Walmart of computing - lots of cheap crap.
I still prefer to shop at Nordstrom, and Neiman Marcus.
JD
Shutdown is under the Windows logo button (use to be the start button) on Windows 7... Makes sense (just like shutdown is under the Apple logo button).
Did it make sense for Apple to put their shutdown command under the "special menu"???
Windows 7 UI has improved to nearly Mac OS X levels...
are you implying that the apple menu and the start button are even similar things? what are you talking about?
I'll bet this is just another FUD presentation by Microsoft, to try to get consumers to hold off on buying Apple's products until they can ship a mobile operating system somebody actually wants to use.
Promise the moon, maybe deliver some mud in six months, or just forget to actually ship. Especially since Microsoft still is jerking people along with Windows Mobile 2010 edition.
Actually it will probably be the reverse this time. Nobody is going to buy anything until they know what Apple has up their sleeve. The iPod and iPhone has cured that syndrome.
He's an idiot. IGNORE HIM. PLEASE.
[CENTER]As someone who had a great experience with the HP TX1100, the first real consumer-level slate/tablet capable of running a REAL operating system, I feel quite confident that this new generation of MS/Hp Tablet will be quite impressive, and if it is based on the Courier prototypes, it'll be stellar!
Apple... Your Move[/CENTER]
As someone who used an HP tx2000, let me say this...
Microsoft, the courier is a really neat idea. It would be a great, professional tablet. Don't let HP make it. The tx2000 was, without a doubt, the worst computer I have ever used. The wifi card died, it ran way too hot and burned my lap or my arm and a month ago had such a bad power failure that it wont turn on no matter what. Why did all this happen? Because HP put it together so badly and used the worst parts. I get what I paid for but DAMN! Keep in mind that this was the SECOND one I had, because the first one they sent me didn't work at all. The screen died within the first twenty four hours.
So please, if this is the courier, do not depend on HP.
stockholm syndrome much?
"Apple's Tablet is even more vaporware than MS Courier"....since when does apple send out press releases about products not announced? Yea we ALL saw the demo video of the RUMORED apple tablet.
You do not know the difference between vaporware and rumors.....
If the Courier makes its appearance...I mean you can not even decide if this will ever be released, but still lay out some hope with your captivated stockholm syndrone that you have received from the past failed MS vaporware...
I think everyone is a little tired of your juvenile attacks, with your ad hominem attacks for pointing out the regular modus operandi of M$
And you accuse others of rapid fanboyism? You are battered housewife of MS who constantly defends the abuser and attacks others who try to point out that you are being abused...LOL..
Please don't feed the trolls!
Sad, pathetic individuals like that particular user, who by his own username's admission is a failure, generally get a kick out of people responding to their online furor. They are best ignored. He can then go back to making puerile comments and sending unfunny emails to people he doesn't know on bookface.
[CENTER]Actually...
The term gewgaw is largely considered archaic (circa 1529 - LOL!) by today's vocabulary standards, and let's be honest here - had it not been used in this forum tonight you (probably) wouldn't have even known its meaning or that it is (in fact) considered archaic.
Now about that Hp/MS Courier announcement tomorrow... I Hope It's An Incredible Device![/CENTER]
[RIGHT]Perhaps I am archaic, but I use the term all the time.
(PS: Right-aligned it, just for you!)[/RIGHT]
Microsoft’s Ballmer Will Not Be Showing “Courier” Slate PC at CES Opening Tonight
http://kara.allthingsd.com/20100106/...ening-tonight/
C.
Actually it will probably be the reverse this time. Nobody is going to buy anything until they know what Apple has up their sleeve. The iPod and iPhone has cured that syndrome.
Whatever this Microsoft/HP tablet is, it probably wouldn't be out before the Apple tablet anyway. Think of the Pre, it came out a week before the iPhone 3GS despite being introduced 6 months earlier at CES. Apple holds their products close to their chest further into the development cycle than others. Microsoft is especially notorious for introducing concepts and taking forever to put them on sale.
Apparently it is not going to happen
Microsoft’s Ballmer Will Not Be Showing “Courier” Slate PC at CES Opening Tonight
http://kara.allthingsd.com/20100106/...ening-tonight/
C.
This sucks for them. Many are expecting something that breaks new ground. This doesn't look to be the case but final judgement will have to wait until this new "product" reveals itself. Kids, this is why you don't release cool concept videos of products that aren't ready for prime time.
But MS has done a poor job in managing expectations and could end up looking like they can't produce innovative products.
I was going to watch the Ars feed of the CES keynote but now I'm not sure it'll be worth the time. Its not like I haven't seen videos of Ballmer sweating up on stage before.
Apparently it is not going to happen
Microsoft?s Ballmer Will Not Be Showing ?Courier? Slate PC at CES Opening Tonight
http://kara.allthingsd.com/20100106/...ening-tonight/
C.
Well, I guess my hat is safe from eating then.
Really, talk of a "Courier" as if it were any kind of product at all, much less a game changer that would put the ball in Apple's court, was always way off the mark IMO.
I think we can look forward to more of the same from Ballmer and MS. A Windows tablet with somewhat better touch integration that still doesn't bother to ask, let alone answer, some basic questions regarding why such a device is necessary.
I don't know that Apple has come come up with a satisfactory answer either, but I know that they have at least given it a lot of thought and endeavored to design something that rethinks the entire experience.
This sucks for them. Many are expecting something that breaks new ground. This doesn't look to be the case but final judgement will have to wait until this new "product" reveals itself. Kids, this is why you don't release cool concept videos of products that aren't ready for prime time.
But MS has done a poor job in managing expectations and could end up looking like they can't produce innovative products.
I was going to watch the Ars feed of the CES keynote but now I'm not sure it'll be worth the time. Its not like I haven't seen videos of Ballmer sweating up on stage before.
Was "Courier" ever anything more than a "leaked" animation? I don't recall MS saying much of anything, then or now, about any intention of ever building anything like this. It seems like most or all of the expectation came from carried-away tech heads that seemed to be under the impression that a rendered conceptual video was tantamount to a product announcement.
And then some people combined that with a random announcement about an HP tablet and just leapt to conclusions. It didn't really make much sense that MS would be releasing an extremely out-of-left-field product without any kind of press or build-up at all by whipping it out at the CES keynote. So I don't think it really "sucks for them", in that they never made any claims.
Well, I guess my hat is safe from eating then.
Really, talk of a "Courier" as if it were any kind of product at all, much less a game changer that would put the ball in Apple's court, was always way off the mark IMO.
I think we can look forward to more of the same from Ballmer and MS. A Windows tablet with somewhat better touch integration that still doesn't bother to ask, let alone answer, some basic questions regarding why such a device is necessary.
I don't know that Apple has come come up with a satisfactory answer either, but I know that they have at least given it a lot of thought and endeavored to design something that rethinks the entire experience.
I bow down to your powers of prognostication.
Thing is, I don't really see vaporware from either side. I've seen concept videos, and rumors, but no official announcements from any company.
With that said, based upon all the speculation, I think there are some great ideas for tablet features coming in from all directions.
Some of the ideas from the 'courier' concept aren't bad. Do they actually exist? Who knows. I don't think MS can really pull off a successful product in this category, but they might, we'll just have to wait and see if/when they make an actual announcement (and we see an actual product).
Some of the ideas from the rumored Apple tablet sound great, but those are all pure speculation since Apple says absolutely nothing about products in advance nor do they release concept videos. I hope they have something to announce later this month, but we don't even know if or what they are planning to say.
As for OS arguments, sure Win7 can work with "touch" input - that's been possible since Win95 (with or without support from MS). MacOS X also supports touch input, again it's been possible for ages. Better APIs and support are being baked into both OSes. There has been a difference in product releases though. MS has been pounding the touch drum, and Apple has shied away from touch screens except on mobiles (iPhone/touch).
Apple zealots need to accept that Win7 will likely prove to be the best OS MS has released so far, and it's not completely terrible. They have 'borrowed' enough tech from other OSes (not just Mac) to make it usable, and even come up with a few ideas of their own *gasp*.
MS zealots need to accept that Win7 is still inherently Windows, and the vulnerability problem has been improved but not solved, and Win is still unintuitive - and with Win7 it's become even more 'busy' and distracting. MacOS X is the opposite - nimble, clean, intuitive, and stays out of your way so you can get work done.
In relation to the tablet computer concept, I'm not sure if a full desktop OS (from either camp) is a good idea or not. I'm betting Apple, if they are making a tablet, will use the iPhone OS (which is MacOS X lite) to run it. I'm not sure that's such a good idea. I personally don't want a 'slate' size iPod. I don't see the point. From MS, just slapping Win7 on a touchscreen device is no solution. I've used Windows on a touch screen, and I'm not at all impressed. A menu driven OS just doesn't work for a touch environment (despite various UI paradigms that have been slapped on top). At least Apple figured that out.
I would personally like a full touch-input MacOS X computer in a tablet form factor, where the touch UI has been refined like that of the iPhone, but where I can still have all the features (like access to the file system) of a full MacOS X computer. In the Apple camp, I don't see any "meeting of the minds" - I see iPhone on one end, and MacOS on the other, but I want a meeting in the middle - full MacOS X with iPhone UI.
All we can really do at this point is wait and see. Once we can get real products in our hot little hands, then we can more effectively praise or criticize.
For $100 or so, I would seriously consider a little appointment book/scrap book/web browser thing that would serve as a replacement to a sketchbook/PIM. But for much more than that, I would want a flexible device that could do all kinds of things. The very hardware design that makes the Courier concept so appealing for a limited set of tasks make it unsuitable for a great deal more.
And, as I and others have remarked, I'm not so sure that trading width and depth for thickness is all that big of a win, considering the drawbacks, when you could do all of that with a single screen. Twin, interacting panes when you want to use your tablet in "Courier" mode, one screen when you want to surf, look at media, or run apps full screen. For that matter, everything shown in the Courier animation could be achieved with a single app, designed for notebooking/archiving/research, with some simple hooks to a browser and system wide data bases.