Classic coming from a Fin. I do recall the a-holish control Nokia placed on Voicestream [the days before T-Mobile USA] and how draconian Nokia was about it's product line. Those were fun times, watching internally the pissed off looks on all the Voicestream personnel.
HE IS IS A RARE UN FINNISH FINN
please read his tag line
>>>>>
in other news ATT wins the award for best cell coverage in the only true market
Why ask a question if you already know the answer?
The answer I gave was in Finnish, it suggested a search which leads to the answer you already knew.
Australia not being part of the US has the International version of the Kindle, so people here pay $US2 more per book to cover "the cost of doing biz" as you put it and as I posted before.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns
Thanks Curtis,
This I knew already, as the Kindle forums are in advanced freak out mode. I was asking if there was something else other than this. I already knew about the cost of doing biz with the "international" version Kindle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycomiko
easier than answering a question, I guess
Quote:
Originally Posted by CurtisEMayle
I understand. I'm only familiar with the $2 fee for roaming outside of the U.S. (excluding Mexico, Japan, Hong Kong)
What idiot actually expects ATT to allow multiple devices to piggyback off of a data pkg you have for your phone?
Insane!!
The same idiots who connect multiple devices to their unlimited local telephone connection. the same idiots who connect several TVs to their unlimited cable TV connection. And finally, the same idiots who connect several devices to their unlimited home internet connection.
Those idiots are surprised that they cannot hook up another device to their already "unlimited" ATT data connection.
Interesting. All these claims how AT&T, the U.S. and Apple is ripping everyone off, i.e., with unlimited data, tethering, higher speed, etc. And yet, when challenged, no response.
Well, according to this site at http://wiki.maemo.org/Data_plans, to get tethering you get limited data plans. In fact, according to the 24 countries charted only in a couple of instances is 'Unlimited" data available at all.
And although some may be cheaper than in North America, most of these countries I could put in a corner of my province. But I have swath of coverage of over 3,000 miles (4800 km) that I can roam and/or call freely and that is not something not 'free'ly available overseas without paying a hefty roaming charge.
And for those countries that 'get everything' included, well guys, your taxes paid for most most of the hardcore costs and in some cases, you still are, big time. Not that everything is hunky dory. I happen to live in Canada. Most of our taxes goes to long roads, healthcare and education. But for that, we can drive across the country on roads second to non and without having to pay a toll; our infant mortality is lower and we live longer than most peoples; nobody passes us re literacy when surfing Apple/Mac/iPhone sites across the net; and yet our disposable income is one of the highest in the world.
The iPad is a separate device. The idea that just because I get 'unlimited' data, I should be able to hook anything to it and get a free ride; well, see what happens if you hook up a trailer and/or boat to your car and try to drive down the road or pass through a toll booth without buying a license or paying extra. Bottom line, there is no free ride.
All of those refer to a way a carrier could offer an unlimited service and simply stating unlimited on a poster does not and should not infer that all four of those items are considered unlimited. As i've stated, I'm not a fan of the US marketing system. I think they should be required to disclose more info pre-contract because many people just don't know better when it comes to how the technogy works. Though it should be clear in the contract that tethering is not allowed while unlimited data usage is permitted.
I agree..But, you see, it goes beyond that from a legal standpoint. AT&T can put whatever they want in marketing material, and anything they want in their contract.
It's up to a lawyer or team of lawyers to hold them accountable and prove wrong doing. As is the case with ETF's from the 90s and early 2000s, it took legal action to prove that AT&T was breaking the law every single day with every single contract they issued. That is DONE. Definitive. We were right, they were wrong.
I'm not saying that my opinion gives me the right to use Unlimited service in an Unlimited fashion.... I'm saying that: "AT&T's egregious use of the word Unlimited itself guarantees me Unlimited use of their service, by definition.
If this wasn't their intention, they should not have used "Unlimited". They should have used the word that actually describes the service they offer, which is, "Limited".
The difference is as clear as night and day, black and white, unlimited and limited.
I'm not saying that my opinion gives me the right to use Unlimited service in an Unlimited fashion.... I'm saying that: "AT&T's egregious use of the word Unlimited itself guarantees me Unlimited use of their service, by definition.
If this wasn't their intention, they should not have used "Unlimited". They should have used the word that actually describes the service they offer, which is, "Limited".
I've been hoping the US laws change to explain that on or marketing signage like other countries, but it's not even being discussed yet. I'm all for it, but there will likely have to be a huge problem arise that will make this a public issue before that happens. Until then the buyer will need to understand what they are signing. They'll need to know that a $200 iPhone will cost them thousands over 2 years and that the contract is to protect AT&T, not them.
I've been hoping the US laws change to explain that on or marketing signage like other countries, but it's not even being discussed yet. I'm all for it, but there will likely have to be a huge problem arise that will make this a public issue before that happens. Until then the buyer will need to understand what they are signing. They'll need to know that a $200 iPhone will cost them thousands over 2 years and that the contract is to protect AT&T, not them.
As evidence before, there is no difference between countries.
Countries that offer tethering, for example, have limited data usage. Tethering is not free. It is charged against their limited data plans.
By that reasoning wouldn't it make sense for me to demand that AT&T allow me to operated two phones on the same data plan?
You can, you just take the sim out of one phone and put it in another (some phones aren't compatible with each other's sim of course). Maybe they will allow the same for the iPad and you can get incoming calls while on the iPad on the same number but it's not ideal switching out the sim card every time. Bluetooth tethering is much easier.
You're not operating two devices on the same network simultaneously, which I don't think should be allowed. Although simultaneous sharing is common and expected with landline phone, cable and broadband, the mobile network can't cope with it but an individual shouldn't have to pay twice to simply access the same data stream from two separate devices in two separate instances.
It's like if I had two iphones for development testing, a 2G and 3G. If I had an app to test over 3G, should I have to pay for two contracts? Of course not. If I need to test an iPad app and iphone 3G app, I should be able to use the same data contract.
You can, you just take the sim out of one phone and put it in another (some phones aren't compatible with each other's sim of course).
That isn't what is being discussed here. There is still only ONE network access to ONE device at a time with SIM swapping. What is being stated is that the any and all devices should be allowed to connect to the network via one hub device because you're paying for UNLIMITED access.
Can you direct me to such countries that enforce Mandatory Ownership Disclosure?
I don't recall which ones, but posters seem to talk them up every year when the new iPhone gets released. Whether they are lying or not, I like the idea of a minimum TCO disclosure.
I don't recall which ones, but posters seem to talk them up every year when the new iPhone gets released. Whether they are lying or not, I like the idea of a minimum TCO disclosure.
Hey dude.
If you mean Total Cost of Ownership, here in Finland when you buy an iPhone, you just ask them what it would cost to buy out the contract and they calculate it for you on the spot. Be it a one year or two year contract.
That isn't what is being discussed here. There is still only ONE network access to ONE device at a time with SIM swapping. What is being stated is that the any and all devices should be allowed to connect to the network via one hub device because you're paying for UNLIMITED access.
Exactly. I realize AT&T has had its problems meeting the vastly increased bandwidth demands of the iPhone, but just leaping to "Apple and AT&T are raping us again because they're bad, bad I tell you" stance, in this instance, makes no sense whatsoever.
Their tethering policies are well in line with US norms. If you're on Verizon (as many people here wish so fervently for) you don't even have the sim card swap option, and Verizon certainly isn't going to let you run multiple phones on a single data plan. Where's the bitching and moaning about how fascist and controlling and thieving Verizon is? Are normative US cell policies only horrifying when they involve Apple and AT&T?
Exactly. I realize AT&T has had its problems meeting the vastly increased bandwidth demands of the iPhone, but just leaping to "Apple and AT&T are raping us again because they're bad, bad I tell you" stance, in this instance, makes no sense whatsoever.
Their tethering policies are well in line with US norms. If you're on Verizon (as many people here wish so fervently for) you don't even have the sim card swap option, and Verizon certainly isn't going to let you run multiple phones on a single data plan. Where's the bitching and moaning about how fascist and controlling and thieving Verizon is? Are normative US cell policies only horrifying when they involve Apple and AT&T?
My son is a manager over at Verizon and he says the upper level managers are the spawn of satan but they are sending him to school for his Masters so he is selling his soul I guess for a better piece of paper.
You are correct that AT&T will not let you run multiple phones on one data contract. This is sad. I am lucky that the operators here in Finland allow you to run two phones on one SIM card contract. Voice and data.
Exactly. I realize AT&T has had its problems meeting the vastly increased bandwidth demands of the iPhone, but just leaping to "Apple and AT&T are raping us again because they're bad, bad I tell you" stance, in this instance, makes no sense whatsoever.
Their tethering policies are well in line with US norms. If you're on Verizon (as many people here wish so fervently for) you don't even have the sim card swap option, and Verizon certainly isn't going to let you run multiple phones on a single data plan. Where's the bitching and moaning about how fascist and controlling and thieving Verizon is? Are normative US cell policies only horrifying when they involve Apple and AT&T?
Things people here should try...
Walk into an All-You-Eat resturant, pay for your meal and then after getting plates of food hand them off to other people. When you are caught then say that you are the only one connecting with the buffet and that after it's in your possesion it's no longer their concern and there is nothing they can do about it.
Go to an All-You-Can-Eat resturant, have your meal and save your reciept. Get that reciept laminatied for all time then come back on subsequent occassions and try to continue your All-You-Can-Eat feast. When tell you otherwise point out that they made no stipulation about how it was defined and that your proof of reciept entitled you eat there until you've passed on.
A little hyperbole can be fun. I think some posters here are the reason that my hairdryer instructs me not to use while showering.
Walk into an All-You-Eat resturant, pay for your meal and then after getting plates of food hand them off to other people. When you are caught then say that you are the only one connecting with the buffet and that after it's in your possesion it's no longer their concern and there is nothing they can do about it.
Go to an All-You-Can-Eat resturant, have your meal and save your reciept. Get that reciept laminatied for all time then come back on subsequent occassions and try to continue your All-You-Can-Eat feast. When tell you otherwise point out that they made no stipulation about how it was defined and that your proof of reciept entitled you eat there until you've passed on.
A little hyperbole can be fun. I think some posters here are the reason that my hairdryer instructs me not to use while showering.
Comments
Classic coming from a Fin. I do recall the a-holish control Nokia placed on Voicestream [the days before T-Mobile USA] and how draconian Nokia was about it's product line. Those were fun times, watching internally the pissed off looks on all the Voicestream personnel.
HE IS IS A RARE UN FINNISH FINN
please read his tag line
>>>>>
in other news ATT wins the award for best cell coverage in the only true market
USA
go apple
peace 9
The answer I gave was in Finnish, it suggested a search which leads to the answer you already knew.
Australia not being part of the US has the International version of the Kindle, so people here pay $US2 more per book to cover "the cost of doing biz" as you put it and as I posted before.
Thanks Curtis,
This I knew already, as the Kindle forums are in advanced freak out mode. I was asking if there was something else other than this. I already knew about the cost of doing biz with the "international" version Kindle.
easier than answering a question, I guess
I understand. I'm only familiar with the $2 fee for roaming outside of the U.S. (excluding Mexico, Japan, Hong Kong)
What idiot actually expects ATT to allow multiple devices to piggyback off of a data pkg you have for your phone?
Insane!!
The same idiots who connect multiple devices to their unlimited local telephone connection. the same idiots who connect several TVs to their unlimited cable TV connection. And finally, the same idiots who connect several devices to their unlimited home internet connection.
Those idiots are surprised that they cannot hook up another device to their already "unlimited" ATT data connection.
Insane, indeed...
Like hell we do
Looks like they upped the amount. It now pays for 1GB:
http://www.telusmobility.com/en/QC/c...es/index.shtml
which is still an order of magnitude different.
OK. Show me the other US carrier that lets you run two phones on the same data plan.
With Verizon you can instantly switch devices on your account. You can use any number of phones you like, but obviously, only one at a time.
Well, according to this site at http://wiki.maemo.org/Data_plans, to get tethering you get limited data plans. In fact, according to the 24 countries charted only in a couple of instances is 'Unlimited" data available at all.
And although some may be cheaper than in North America, most of these countries I could put in a corner of my province. But I have swath of coverage of over 3,000 miles (4800 km) that I can roam and/or call freely and that is not something not 'free'ly available overseas without paying a hefty roaming charge.
And for those countries that 'get everything' included, well guys, your taxes paid for most most of the hardcore costs and in some cases, you still are, big time. Not that everything is hunky dory. I happen to live in Canada. Most of our taxes goes to long roads, healthcare and education. But for that, we can drive across the country on roads second to non and without having to pay a toll; our infant mortality is lower and we live longer than most peoples; nobody passes us re literacy when surfing Apple/Mac/iPhone sites across the net; and yet our disposable income is one of the highest in the world.
The iPad is a separate device. The idea that just because I get 'unlimited' data, I should be able to hook anything to it and get a free ride; well, see what happens if you hook up a trailer and/or boat to your car and try to drive down the road or pass through a toll booth without buying a license or paying extra. Bottom line, there is no free ride.
Unlimited time
Unlimited data usage
Unlimited bandwidth
Unlimited devices
All of those refer to a way a carrier could offer an unlimited service and simply stating unlimited on a poster does not and should not infer that all four of those items are considered unlimited. As i've stated, I'm not a fan of the US marketing system. I think they should be required to disclose more info pre-contract because many people just don't know better when it comes to how the technogy works. Though it should be clear in the contract that tethering is not allowed while unlimited data usage is permitted.
I agree..But, you see, it goes beyond that from a legal standpoint. AT&T can put whatever they want in marketing material, and anything they want in their contract.
It's up to a lawyer or team of lawyers to hold them accountable and prove wrong doing. As is the case with ETF's from the 90s and early 2000s, it took legal action to prove that AT&T was breaking the law every single day with every single contract they issued. That is DONE. Definitive. We were right, they were wrong.
I'm not saying that my opinion gives me the right to use Unlimited service in an Unlimited fashion.... I'm saying that: "AT&T's egregious use of the word Unlimited itself guarantees me Unlimited use of their service, by definition.
If this wasn't their intention, they should not have used "Unlimited". They should have used the word that actually describes the service they offer, which is, "Limited".
The difference is as clear as night and day, black and white, unlimited and limited.
I'm not saying that my opinion gives me the right to use Unlimited service in an Unlimited fashion.... I'm saying that: "AT&T's egregious use of the word Unlimited itself guarantees me Unlimited use of their service, by definition.
If this wasn't their intention, they should not have used "Unlimited". They should have used the word that actually describes the service they offer, which is, "Limited".
I've been hoping the US laws change to explain that on or marketing signage like other countries, but it's not even being discussed yet. I'm all for it, but there will likely have to be a huge problem arise that will make this a public issue before that happens. Until then the buyer will need to understand what they are signing. They'll need to know that a $200 iPhone will cost them thousands over 2 years and that the contract is to protect AT&T, not them.
I've been hoping the US laws change to explain that on or marketing signage like other countries, but it's not even being discussed yet. I'm all for it, but there will likely have to be a huge problem arise that will make this a public issue before that happens. Until then the buyer will need to understand what they are signing. They'll need to know that a $200 iPhone will cost them thousands over 2 years and that the contract is to protect AT&T, not them.
As evidence before, there is no difference between countries.
Countries that offer tethering, for example, have limited data usage. Tethering is not free. It is charged against their limited data plans.
As evidence before, there is no difference between countries.
Countries that offer tethering, for example, have limited data usage. Tethering is not free. It is charged against their limited data plans.
Yeah, I was segueing into a different area of marketing that countries do enforce. Namely, the minimum TCO of subsidized handsets.
By that reasoning wouldn't it make sense for me to demand that AT&T allow me to operated two phones on the same data plan?
You can, you just take the sim out of one phone and put it in another (some phones aren't compatible with each other's sim of course). Maybe they will allow the same for the iPad and you can get incoming calls while on the iPad on the same number but it's not ideal switching out the sim card every time. Bluetooth tethering is much easier.
You're not operating two devices on the same network simultaneously, which I don't think should be allowed. Although simultaneous sharing is common and expected with landline phone, cable and broadband, the mobile network can't cope with it but an individual shouldn't have to pay twice to simply access the same data stream from two separate devices in two separate instances.
It's like if I had two iphones for development testing, a 2G and 3G. If I had an app to test over 3G, should I have to pay for two contracts? Of course not. If I need to test an iPad app and iphone 3G app, I should be able to use the same data contract.
You can, you just take the sim out of one phone and put it in another (some phones aren't compatible with each other's sim of course).
That isn't what is being discussed here. There is still only ONE network access to ONE device at a time with SIM swapping. What is being stated is that the any and all devices should be allowed to connect to the network via one hub device because you're paying for UNLIMITED access.
Yeah, I was segueing into a different area of marketing that countries do enforce. Namely, the minimum TCO of subsidized handsets.
Can you direct me to such countries that enforce Mandatory Ownership Disclosure?
Can you direct me to such countries that enforce Mandatory Ownership Disclosure?
I don't recall which ones, but posters seem to talk them up every year when the new iPhone gets released. Whether they are lying or not, I like the idea of a minimum TCO disclosure.
I don't recall which ones, but posters seem to talk them up every year when the new iPhone gets released. Whether they are lying or not, I like the idea of a minimum TCO disclosure.
Hey dude.
If you mean Total Cost of Ownership, here in Finland when you buy an iPhone, you just ask them what it would cost to buy out the contract and they calculate it for you on the spot. Be it a one year or two year contract.
That isn't what is being discussed here. There is still only ONE network access to ONE device at a time with SIM swapping. What is being stated is that the any and all devices should be allowed to connect to the network via one hub device because you're paying for UNLIMITED access.
Exactly. I realize AT&T has had its problems meeting the vastly increased bandwidth demands of the iPhone, but just leaping to "Apple and AT&T are raping us again because they're bad, bad I tell you" stance, in this instance, makes no sense whatsoever.
Their tethering policies are well in line with US norms. If you're on Verizon (as many people here wish so fervently for) you don't even have the sim card swap option, and Verizon certainly isn't going to let you run multiple phones on a single data plan. Where's the bitching and moaning about how fascist and controlling and thieving Verizon is? Are normative US cell policies only horrifying when they involve Apple and AT&T?
Exactly. I realize AT&T has had its problems meeting the vastly increased bandwidth demands of the iPhone, but just leaping to "Apple and AT&T are raping us again because they're bad, bad I tell you" stance, in this instance, makes no sense whatsoever.
Their tethering policies are well in line with US norms. If you're on Verizon (as many people here wish so fervently for) you don't even have the sim card swap option, and Verizon certainly isn't going to let you run multiple phones on a single data plan. Where's the bitching and moaning about how fascist and controlling and thieving Verizon is? Are normative US cell policies only horrifying when they involve Apple and AT&T?
My son is a manager over at Verizon and he says the upper level managers are the spawn of satan but they are sending him to school for his Masters so he is selling his soul I guess for a better piece of paper.
You are correct that AT&T will not let you run multiple phones on one data contract. This is sad. I am lucky that the operators here in Finland allow you to run two phones on one SIM card contract. Voice and data.
Exactly. I realize AT&T has had its problems meeting the vastly increased bandwidth demands of the iPhone, but just leaping to "Apple and AT&T are raping us again because they're bad, bad I tell you" stance, in this instance, makes no sense whatsoever.
Their tethering policies are well in line with US norms. If you're on Verizon (as many people here wish so fervently for) you don't even have the sim card swap option, and Verizon certainly isn't going to let you run multiple phones on a single data plan. Where's the bitching and moaning about how fascist and controlling and thieving Verizon is? Are normative US cell policies only horrifying when they involve Apple and AT&T?
Things people here should try...
- Walk into an All-You-Eat resturant, pay for your meal and then after getting plates of food hand them off to other people. When you are caught then say that you are the only one connecting with the buffet and that after it's in your possesion it's no longer their concern and there is nothing they can do about it.
- Go to an All-You-Can-Eat resturant, have your meal and save your reciept. Get that reciept laminatied for all time then come back on subsequent occassions and try to continue your All-You-Can-Eat feast. When tell you otherwise point out that they made no stipulation about how it was defined and that your proof of reciept entitled you eat there until you've passed on.
A little hyperbole can be fun. I think some posters here are the reason that my hairdryer instructs me not to use while showering.Things people here should try...
- Walk into an All-You-Eat resturant, pay for your meal and then after getting plates of food hand them off to other people. When you are caught then say that you are the only one connecting with the buffet and that after it's in your possesion it's no longer their concern and there is nothing they can do about it.
- Go to an All-You-Can-Eat resturant, have your meal and save your reciept. Get that reciept laminatied for all time then come back on subsequent occassions and try to continue your All-You-Can-Eat feast. When tell you otherwise point out that they made no stipulation about how it was defined and that your proof of reciept entitled you eat there until you've passed on.
A little hyperbole can be fun. I think some posters here are the reason that my hairdryer instructs me not to use while showering.BPE = Best Post Ever.