Since it would be impossible to read through all the facts, figures and opinions I will simple add what I know is correct.
Both sides have committed atrocities against each other and the idea of "Give me my land" before any peace is to ensue is beyond us at this point.
What must happen is new leaders must be elected (or have them better represent their people) and simple recognition that each side, BY each side, has done awful things and suffered awful things.
We're connected in this world, taking a quick deep breath and saying "Despite our past we will move forward" will be the only end to violence and start to peace.
Note to little cuss. Do not trivialise this issue by dumping those pictures on the conversation. They are not helpful and you should have better wits about you than to joke around during such discussion unless it proves a point.
I think we should be careful to keep a distinction between jew and israeli. Hitler was after jews, Palistinian suicide bombers are after Israelies. Islam has been a very accepting religion ever since the Ottoman empire ruled over all this land and allowed Jews and Christians to live in its empire without being taxed. The Palastinian beef is with the Israeli and not the jew and I think that is very important to point out. Many israeli muslims have died in this conflict also. Just a final thought- many more innocent palastinians have died in this conflict than innocent israelies so when one condems the suicide bombings, I believe in behooves them to condem the over reaction by the Israeli government!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Do you consider terrorists innocent civilians? I sure don't. Many more Israeli civilians have died than palestinian. As for Muslims being more tolerant, you have got to be kidding me. Try looking at where things are today not hundreds of years ago. Muslims are incredibly intolerant...........................
I think solo was a bit outspoken when stating then more innocent palestinians have dies than innocent Israelis.
This is also stands for steve666.
Neither of you have any numbers to support these claims.
To steve666 alone, you don't have a single SHRED of justification for making such a disgusting claim of Muslims being intolerant!
You have shown yourseld to be intolerant right here, along with PC^Killa and the rest who use blasphemous lies and rude insults to support them in an arguement.
You must learn to respect your opponent, and as for intolerance in MUSLIMS as you have so ignorantly put it, I know many Muslims and they are as kind to me as I AM TO THEM!
Maybe if you had a tolerant mind you would quit blithering this one-sided egocentric babble which has been spewn from years evolving in a closed-minded community!
Muslims not intolerant. Thats hilarious. Their religion is based on intolerance. You know. That whole kill the infidel thing. Have you ever seen a muslim marry a non-muslim with out making the other convert first? But i know many jew-christian, buddist-christian, and even a hindu-christian.
I know you're just trying to be politically correct, but get real.
[quote]Have you ever seen a muslim marry a non-muslim with out making the other convert first? But i know many jew-christian, buddist-christian, and even a hindu-christian.<hr></blockquote>
You haven't seen it, so it's impossible. So there is a God! Rejoice! <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
Just out of curiosity, how many Muslims do you know? Where are they all from?
Sorry to always break a little reality on this forum and spoil your dreams in fantasy land, but Muslims (the great majority) are still fighting the crusaders. There?s a demographic explosion in their population. And with a little persistence and their new super weapon (suicide bomber) they think they might even have a chance at wining. You don?t need to be a great genius to figure this out. But you really need to be extremely naïve not to see this. I live with these jackals. I know them very well. Never ever believe a word they say to you. The can call you brother one day, and stick a knife in your throat the next if a good opportunity arrives. That?s an Arab for you. If you?d like to expand that to all Muslim I don?t think you?ll be stretching it much. That?s my experience anyway.
[quote] Have you ever seen a muslim marry a non-muslim with out making the other convert first?<hr></blockquote>
My brother had to convert to Greek-Orthodox when he got married. Does that make the Greek-Orthodox Church intolerant?
Also, it was PC^KILLA that said on page 1:
[quote] Half-breeds like you we can do without... <hr></blockquote>
(Talking about Anders)
[quote]I know you're just trying to be politically correct, but get real. <hr></blockquote>
I love how racism is cool because it is so un-PC now. Hey, I can be cool to!
[cool] I hate those towl-head camel F***ers too. Just a bunch of terrorists any way. Lets bomb Mecca! Nuke 'em all! Then we will git those damn short Chinese too. And send those blacks back to Africa! This is our land! Slavery is over go home! [/cool]
Oh well I guess im just a Pink, PC tool of the man <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
Does that make the Greek-Orthodox Church intolerant?
ans: YES.
But to be fair, so is everyone else, to a greater or lesser extent. In the case of Muslims, it's to the greater extent. It's tribalism in its crudest form. Thank GOD for America. Maybe people will see in her an example to emulate. So far, not too many countries signed up ...
[quote]The can call you brother one day, and stick a knife in your throat the next if a good opportunity arrives. That?s an Arab for you.<hr></blockquote>
I can't blame them. One moment you're offering up crackers, the next you're trying to cut someone's foreskin off. Jews... <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
I can't blame them. One moment you're offering up crackers, the next you're trying to cut someone's foreskin off. Jews... <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
I can't blame them. One moment you're offering up crackers, the next you're trying to cut someone's foreskin off. Jews... <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
Hardly the same thing. Not even close actually. Cutting off the foreskin of a man will actually go a long way towards preventing infection. Much of what God commanded the Israelites to do in the bible can be linked to health and well being.
He was making a point based on his daily life experiences. You are just coming of as trite and somewhat childish. He sounded nothing like you. He sounded genuinely upset, and jaded.
What do you get out of your beliefs?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Strength to fight the infidels ... two can play at this game ... but I guess you don?t need to worry about that. You?re not surrounded by them Muslim peace lovers ?
Lest any of you think I am completely ignorant of muslims, I know and work (and worked) with about a dozen Muslims. I've had personal talks with 2 of them about their beliefs. You CANNOT be a muslim if you marry a non-muslim. It's possible to marry a non-muslim but you will be shunned by your (muslim) family and others. This is not racism on my part. I didn't make up that rule. But it happens in all religions (catholics, greek orthodox, jews, hindu, etc) but not 99.999% of the times like for muslims. <a href="http://www.jannah.org/sisters/wifee.html"; target="_blank">http://www.jannah.org/sisters/wifee.html</a>;
Comments
Both sides have committed atrocities against each other and the idea of "Give me my land" before any peace is to ensue is beyond us at this point.
What must happen is new leaders must be elected (or have them better represent their people) and simple recognition that each side, BY each side, has done awful things and suffered awful things.
We're connected in this world, taking a quick deep breath and saying "Despite our past we will move forward" will be the only end to violence and start to peace.
Note to little cuss. Do not trivialise this issue by dumping those pictures on the conversation. They are not helpful and you should have better wits about you than to joke around during such discussion unless it proves a point.
check yourself,
cuss
<strong>
I think we should be careful to keep a distinction between jew and israeli. Hitler was after jews, Palistinian suicide bombers are after Israelies. Islam has been a very accepting religion ever since the Ottoman empire ruled over all this land and allowed Jews and Christians to live in its empire without being taxed. The Palastinian beef is with the Israeli and not the jew and I think that is very important to point out. Many israeli muslims have died in this conflict also. Just a final thought- many more innocent palastinians have died in this conflict than innocent israelies so when one condems the suicide bombings, I believe in behooves them to condem the over reaction by the Israeli government!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Do you consider terrorists innocent civilians? I sure don't. Many more Israeli civilians have died than palestinian. As for Muslims being more tolerant, you have got to be kidding me. Try looking at where things are today not hundreds of years ago. Muslims are incredibly intolerant...........................
Deal with today. There needs to be a Palestinian State. There
needs to be no more terrorism. Jewish settlements in the West
Bank need to be reverted to Palestinian control. Arabs must
repudiate terrorism in ANY form against ANY country. Israel
must live in peace, Palestine must live in peace. Israel must
have secure borders. Israel shouldn't have to negotiate while
terrorists run rampant killing their women and children. Both
Israelis and Palestinians must learn to talk to each other and
mean what they say. Violence must never be a first resort, if
talks fail keep talking.
Heres the Steve666 peace plan:
Muslim countries reconvene their Islamic conference and
disavow terrorism against civilians in any form.
Israel pulls out of the West Bank.
Land swap for peace:
1. Israel removes all Jewish settlers from the West bank.
2. Palestinians from Gaza move into previous Jewish
settlements on the West bank.
3. Israel gets to keep the Gaza Strip.
4. Palestine is formed from the entire West Bank, with East
Jerusalem as their Capital.
5. Formal peace accord with all of the Arab world(and Iran)
and Israel.
6. Palestinian refugees are not allowed to return to Israel
proper but are free to move into the new palestinian state and
will receive $1 Billion in compensation from Israel.
I believe this will lead to a more secure situation. The
Palestinian population won't be split between 2 areas, the
Israelis won't have to maintain a presence at all in the West
Bank, and Israel will only have one border to have to
watch........................
This is also stands for steve666.
Neither of you have any numbers to support these claims.
To steve666 alone, you don't have a single SHRED of justification for making such a disgusting claim of Muslims being intolerant!
You have shown yourseld to be intolerant right here, along with PC^Killa and the rest who use blasphemous lies and rude insults to support them in an arguement.
You must learn to respect your opponent, and as for intolerance in MUSLIMS as you have so ignorantly put it, I know many Muslims and they are as kind to me as I AM TO THEM!
Maybe if you had a tolerant mind you would quit blithering this one-sided egocentric babble which has been spewn from years evolving in a closed-minded community!
Rember, Hitler was elected.
As for 666, Thats not a bad plan. I know 1B sounds like alot, but that is less than 1% if the GDP. (but that would be alot for Palestine)
I like to see a tender-foot come into this discustion.
I know you're just trying to be politically correct, but get real.
You haven't seen it, so it's impossible. So there is a God! Rejoice! <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
Just out of curiosity, how many Muslims do you know? Where are they all from?
mika.
My brother had to convert to Greek-Orthodox when he got married. Does that make the Greek-Orthodox Church intolerant?
Also, it was PC^KILLA that said on page 1:
[quote] Half-breeds like you we can do without... <hr></blockquote>
(Talking about Anders)
[quote]I know you're just trying to be politically correct, but get real. <hr></blockquote>
I love how racism is cool because it is so un-PC now. Hey, I can be cool to!
[cool] I hate those towl-head camel F***ers too. Just a bunch of terrorists any way. Lets bomb Mecca! Nuke 'em all! Then we will git those damn short Chinese too. And send those blacks back to Africa! This is our land! Slavery is over go home! [/cool]
Oh well I guess im just a Pink, PC tool of the man
Does that make the Greek-Orthodox Church intolerant?
ans: YES.
But to be fair, so is everyone else, to a greater or lesser extent. In the case of Muslims, it's to the greater extent. It's tribalism in its crudest form. Thank GOD for America. Maybe people will see in her an example to emulate. So far, not too many countries signed up ...
mika.
[ 04-11-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]</p>
I can't blame them. One moment you're offering up crackers, the next you're trying to cut someone's foreskin off. Jews... <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
<strong>
I can't blame them. One moment you're offering up crackers, the next you're trying to cut someone's foreskin off. Jews... <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
care to expand...
I think he is doing turn about, but im not sure.
What do you get out of your beliefs?
<strong>
I can't blame them. One moment you're offering up crackers, the next you're trying to cut someone's foreskin off. Jews... <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
Hardly the same thing. Not even close actually. Cutting off the foreskin of a man will actually go a long way towards preventing infection. Much of what God commanded the Israelites to do in the bible can be linked to health and well being.
He was making a point based on his daily life experiences. You are just coming of as trite and somewhat childish. He sounded nothing like you. He sounded genuinely upset, and jaded.
<strong>Shit is shit. Let that be your lesson for the day.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I guess I am a slow learner. I still don't feel you have made a valid point. Oh well.
<strong>
What do you get out of your beliefs?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Strength to fight the infidels ... two can play at this game ... but I guess you don?t need to worry about that. You?re not surrounded by them Muslim peace lovers ?
mika
[ 04-11-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]</p>