thentro, you needn't warn me about anything for I am certainly not a tenderfoot. My posts were deleted when the server changed.
Outsider, you generalise. I see nothing funny in it besides you having some deluded feeling of superiority over other opinions. Muslimism has evolved just as christianity has throughout the world. You need to "get real" because the person is not the religion.
"You don?t need to be a great genius to figure this out. But you really need to be extremely naïve not to see this. "
>>>> There is no genius required to analyse an entire people's collective feeling<<<<
"I live with these jackals. I know them very well. Never ever believe a word they say to you. "
>>>> You are racist. If you knew them well you wouldn't be spewing this crap.<<<<
I see nothing funny in it besides you having some deluded feeling of superiority over other opinions. Muslimism has evolved just as christianity has throughout the world. You need to "get real" because the person is not the religion.
I agree there is not anything funny about it. And I'm not saying I'm superior, I don't know where you got that from. But you have to understand that I am not as naive as you are trying to make me out to be. The muslim religion, like christianity centuries (even decades) ago, is a very intolerant religion, but this is the nature of monotheistic religion. Read the link New posted in the last page comparing the differences between monotheistic and polytheistic religion. I know from experience that a Muslim will keep to themself in a social environment if there are no other muslims around. Also they are very unlikely to marry outside their religion. These things are not bad in themselves though. But when coupled with outside hatred and social injustice it is the perfect breeding ground for gross acts like the ones palistinians are doing now. Or why 19 people living in the US decided to fly planes into buildings.
These islamic extremists don't think of their enemies as humans. For a serial killer to kill he has to detach himself from the victim and himself. Normal people can't kill so easily, it usually takes something dramatic to push them over the edge like finding their spouse in bed with another person... A terrorist uses his religious doctrines to detach himself from the crime he (or she) is about to commit. Not really an excuse but a justification for what he is about to do. In his mind everyone is cheering him on as he walks into the crowded restaurant; Allah, his family, his neighbors, the 70 virgins wating for him in heaven... He's not killing innocent people, he's doing the work of God and nothing will detract him.
With this kind of mindset, i think it's a war Israel cannot win. Not without drastic measures.
Muslim religion has not evolved like christianity. It still needs some work especially with the treatment of women and their views of other religions. There is over a billion muslims on earth. It's not a small job. Christianity had the benefit to evolve when the number of christians were less numerous. it's going to take alot of responsible leaders and effort.
[quote]Posted by DigitalMonkeyBoy: What must happen is new leaders must be elected (or have them better represent their people) and simple recognition that each side, BY each side, has done awful things and suffered awful things.
We're connected in this world, taking a quick deep breath and saying "Despite our past we will move forward" will be the only end to violence and start to peace. <hr></blockquote>
Right!
[quote]Posted by Steve666: Many more Israeli civilians have died than palestinian. <hr></blockquote>
No, more palestinian civilians have died. <a href="http://www.btselem.org/"; target="_blank">www.B'Tselem.org</a>
[quote]Posted by Steve666: Muslims are incredibly intolerant <hr></blockquote>
You're incredibly intolerant.
[quote]Posted by Steve666: Israel gets to keep the Gaza Strip. <hr></blockquote>
Gaza is more densly populated with palestinians. It also has their only ports. BAD idea...
[quote]By Thentro: Rember, Hitler was elected. <hr></blockquote>
No, he wasn't, at least not with a majority vote. He had less than 40%, but was given power by the conservatives. He didn't have to form a coalition and he used this power to disolve democracy.
[quote]By Outsider: Have you ever seen a muslim marry a non-muslim with out making the other convert first? <hr></blockquote>
Yes I have. A muslim man can marry a non-muslim woman. What a muslim woman can do however, is much debated and muslims disagree over this. But it is still happening. It is a matter of "how" you interpret your religion, and what kind of traditions your brought up with ofcourse... Muslims are as diverse as the rest of us. Some Christians and Jews are very uptight about this too...
[quote]By KILLA: I live with these jackals. I know them very well. Never ever believe a word they say to you. The can call you brother one day, and stick a knife in your throat the next if a good opportunity arrives. That?s an Arab for you. If you?d like to expand that to all Muslim I don?t think you?ll be stretching it much. <hr></blockquote>
Reminds me of a certain ideology, your words does...
[quote]By KILLA: Thank GOD for America. Maybe people will see in her an example to emulate. So far, not too many countries signed up ... <hr></blockquote>
Your country is certainly NOT one of them...
[quote]By NOAHJ: Cutting off the foreskin of a man will actually go a long way towards preventing infection. <hr></blockquote>
Both muslims and Jews do this. And no, with modern cleanliness, this is a myth. It might still be right in palestinian refugee camp...
<strong>I think solo was a bit outspoken when stating then more innocent palestinians have dies than innocent Israelis.
This is also stands for steve666.
Neither of you have any numbers to support these claims.
To steve666 alone, you don't have a single SHRED of justification for making such a disgusting claim of Muslims being intolerant!
You have shown yourseld to be intolerant right here, along with PC^Killa and the rest who use blasphemous lies and rude insults to support them in an arguement.
You must learn to respect your opponent, and as for intolerance in MUSLIMS as you have so ignorantly put it, I know many Muslims and they are as kind to me as I AM TO THEM!
Maybe if you had a tolerant mind you would quit blithering this one-sided egocentric babble which has been spewn from years evolving in a closed-minded community!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Find me a meeting of Christian nations, Hindu nations, heck, ANY nation, that would say its legitimate for suicide bombings against innocent men, women, and children.
Its inconceivable that in this day and age Arabs are such hateful, violent people. I draw my conclusions from what I see and hear, from what goes on in the world. Noone here is saying that EVERY single muslim or Arab is intolerant or violent, but their silence is deafening when it comes to refuting those that advocate violence...................
>Gaza is more densly populated with palestinians. It also has their only ports. BAD idea...<
Jordan doesn't have a port either-so what?
Palestnians are going to have to give in order to make a settlement. So far, they only expect israel to give. rarely do the losers in a war dictate terms of a settlement.
>By KILLA: Thank GOD for America. Maybe people will see in her an example to emulate. So far, not too many countries signed up ...
You mean a democracy, with a literate population , that works hard instead of strapping bombs on themselves, that doesn't celebrate when American civilians die?
Every Arab country would do well to emulate little Israel. ................................................
Well, I stumbled accross this thread about a week ago, and after reading though all the pages, I guess it's time for me to throw in my two cents.
First of all, I can see that both Israelis and Palestinians have a rightful claim to the land. And, both sides have their abuses, and wrongdoings.
It is understandable (but NOT right) to me that someone whose family has lived in a refugee camp since 1948 would get disenchanted with their own life, and their family's life, and their community's life, and can only see that they can only make a difference by becoming a suicide bomber. It is in these refugee camps that there is a hotbed for terrorists and suicide bombers.
Again, it is understandable (but NOT right) to me that Israel would get upset with the increasing threat and respond violently to the terrorist threat.
However, I believe that the means being used (suicide bombers/military force) will not get a permanent solution. PC^KILLA, imagine how much think that the geographic region of Palestine (not the political state) belongs to Isreal. Do you not think that the Palestinians have those same strong feelings? Simply kicking out the Palestinians will not produce desirable results. Look at the US: we are so isolated geographically from Osama bin Laden and the perpetrators of the September 11 attacks. Can't you see that no matter how big of a fence you build, there will still be attacks on your nation? No matter how "pure" your society becomes, there will still be attacks.
Violence begets violence. You cannot expect to make an organization for suicide bombers, attack innocent civilians, and pay families to do this and not be attacked. Nor can you expect to invade the West Bank and run over cars with your tanks, uproot 150 year old olive trees, and search and destroy homes and not be attacked. It is the nasty cycle of redemptive violence: the idea that violence can be used to create peace.
In my opinion, the Palestinians, if they do the correct things, could very easily start the road to a peaceful solution. They can, with a few, well coordinated nonviolent acts, show their humanity to the Israelis and start the reconciliation process.
This is just my opinion, not necessarily facts.
~bauman
As a sidenote:
Many of you are using vast generalizations to characterize EVERY member of a religious group, race, or culture. Whether you like it or not, this is racism, and it is wrong.
[quote]Many of you are using vast generalizations to characterize EVERY member of a religious group, race, or culture. Whether you like it or not, this is racism, and it is wrong. <hr></blockquote>
<knee jerk conservative>
You liberals are so PC. Im not racist. I have talked to like, 3 of them so I just call em' like I see them. Go back to France and drink your wine!
Both muslims and Jews do this. And no, with modern cleanliness, this is a myth. It might still be right in palestinian refugee camp... </strong><hr></blockquote>
Sorry, but the chances of getting a urinal infection are greatly increased if you keep the foreskin rather than being circumcised. I don't care who does it, it is done. Sure with modern day cleanliness you greatly reduce the chance of infection, but it is still more likely with it than without. Period.
And if women cut their breasts off they won't get breast cancer. But that's absurd to do so. As far a circumcision goes; Don't like it, but i can see why it was done. In my opinion, we were born with it so I'm keeping mine!
<strong>And if women cut their breasts off they won't get breast cancer. But that's absurd to do so. As far a circumcision goes; Don't like it, but i can see why it was done. In my opinion, we were born with it so I'm keeping mine!</strong><hr></blockquote>
A bit of a rediculous comparison there. If you have not been circumcised I don't recommend it for one over the age of 1 month as the pain would be intense to say the least.
[quote] Jordan doesn't have a port either-so what? <hr></blockquote>
Go check the map... Akaba (Al'Aqabah) is a port (fairly big on too...).
[quote]Palestnians are going to have to give in order to make a settlement. So far, they only expect israel to give. rarely do the losers in a war dictate terms of a settlement.<hr></blockquote>
The palestinians have been giving since 1948.
[quote] Every Arab country would do well to emulate little Israel. <hr></blockquote>
God forbid, we don't need more 35 year long invasions.
[quote] Sorry, but the chances of getting a urinal infection are greatly increased if you keep the foreskin rather than being circumcised. I don't care who does it, it is done. Sure with modern day cleanliness you greatly reduce the chance of infection, but it is still more likely with it than without. Period. <hr></blockquote>
Well if we can argue about this then we can argue about everything...
1. What about the Golan Heights and the Sheeba Farms area? I'd think this issue needs to be resolved in order to have a true regional peace.
2. Israel will surely demand that the Palestinians in a future Palestinian state not form a conventional military force, or only a very limited one. What kind of security guarantees would you suggest?
3. What do you think of some sort of peacekeeping force, similar to the U.S. troops in the Sinai that separate Israel and Egypt?
4. Access to religious sites in Israel and Palestine. Some sort of accomodation needs to be reached here.
5. What about a Truth and Reconcilliation committee similar to what was done in South Africa? This might help heal old wounds.
Generally I like your ideas, although I don't think the Gaza/West Bank trade will work. Nonetheless, I rather talk peace ideas than trade ethnic/religious insults.
That's an innovative idea, but I don't think it would work. The State of Israel is specifically premised on being a Jewish State created to protect the interests of Judaism. To submerge this into a secular Palestinian/Israeli combination I think would simply be unacceptable to Israelis. Nor would the Palestinians be any more accepting of this idea.
I also think that there is simply too much distrust, anger, and hatred on both sides to make this work.
Further, would Israel accept a secular state in which those of Palestinian descent would outnumber those Jewish descent? I doubt it as political power would rapidly shift to the Palestinian side because they could outvote the new Jewish minority in a true democractic state.
I believe that this is a case of good fences make for good neighbors.
Now the idea of making Jerusalem a neutral city-state (like the Vatican but governed by a board representing all three major religions in the region) has been kicked around for a while. As has the idea of making Jerusalem the capital of both Israel and Palestine.
This idea is very good. Put I don't think it very realistic at the moment. The problem of the exiled refugees remian. Also the fact that with todays birthrates, the jews would soon be a minority. However, in a long perspective, this option should be seriously considered. A complete reunion once both states are stable and democratic. After all, Germany was united again 50 years after ...
Welcome back gobble gobble, you started this, so your views are very welcome!
Thanks! I dropped out when the conversation devolved to ethnic/racial slurs and untempered opinions. I thought that Steve 666 and Outsider made valid attempts in their last posts to discuss the issues and thought I would respond in kind. Otherwise I just lurk from time to time.
Does anyone else out there have any suggestions as to what a workable peace plan might look like?
Thanks! I dropped out when the conversation devolved to ethnic/racial slurs and untempered opinions. I thought that Steve 666 and Outsider made valid attempts in their last posts to discuss the issues and thought I would respond in kind. Otherwise I just lurk from time to time.
Does anyone else out there have any suggestions as to what a workable peace plan might look like?</strong><hr></blockquote>
If God himself came down and drew a line around what he wanted Israel to have and what he wanted Palestine to have you might have peace for a while. But I bet that within 10 years they would be fighting again over who got the better land, and that one's portion was bigger than the other. When there is peace, true peace, in Israel, be prepared for the bad stuff that will come about 3 years later...
Comments
Outsider, you generalise. I see nothing funny in it besides you having some deluded feeling of superiority over other opinions. Muslimism has evolved just as christianity has throughout the world. You need to "get real" because the person is not the religion.
"You don?t need to be a great genius to figure this out. But you really need to be extremely naïve not to see this. "
>>>> There is no genius required to analyse an entire people's collective feeling<<<<
"I live with these jackals. I know them very well. Never ever believe a word they say to you. "
>>>> You are racist. If you knew them well you wouldn't be spewing this crap.<<<<
I agree there is not anything funny about it. And I'm not saying I'm superior, I don't know where you got that from. But you have to understand that I am not as naive as you are trying to make me out to be. The muslim religion, like christianity centuries (even decades) ago, is a very intolerant religion, but this is the nature of monotheistic religion. Read the link New posted in the last page comparing the differences between monotheistic and polytheistic religion. I know from experience that a Muslim will keep to themself in a social environment if there are no other muslims around. Also they are very unlikely to marry outside their religion. These things are not bad in themselves though. But when coupled with outside hatred and social injustice it is the perfect breeding ground for gross acts like the ones palistinians are doing now. Or why 19 people living in the US decided to fly planes into buildings.
These islamic extremists don't think of their enemies as humans. For a serial killer to kill he has to detach himself from the victim and himself. Normal people can't kill so easily, it usually takes something dramatic to push them over the edge like finding their spouse in bed with another person... A terrorist uses his religious doctrines to detach himself from the crime he (or she) is about to commit. Not really an excuse but a justification for what he is about to do. In his mind everyone is cheering him on as he walks into the crowded restaurant; Allah, his family, his neighbors, the 70 virgins wating for him in heaven... He's not killing innocent people, he's doing the work of God and nothing will detract him.
With this kind of mindset, i think it's a war Israel cannot win. Not without drastic measures.
Muslim religion has not evolved like christianity. It still needs some work especially with the treatment of women and their views of other religions. There is over a billion muslims on earth. It's not a small job. Christianity had the benefit to evolve when the number of christians were less numerous. it's going to take alot of responsible leaders and effort.
We're connected in this world, taking a quick deep breath and saying "Despite our past we will move forward" will be the only end to violence and start to peace. <hr></blockquote>
Right!
[quote]Posted by Steve666: Many more Israeli civilians have died than palestinian. <hr></blockquote>
No, more palestinian civilians have died. <a href="http://www.btselem.org/"; target="_blank">www.B'Tselem.org</a>
[quote]Posted by Steve666: Muslims are incredibly intolerant <hr></blockquote>
You're incredibly intolerant.
[quote]Posted by Steve666: Israel gets to keep the Gaza Strip. <hr></blockquote>
Gaza is more densly populated with palestinians. It also has their only ports. BAD idea...
[quote]By Thentro: Rember, Hitler was elected. <hr></blockquote>
No, he wasn't, at least not with a majority vote. He had less than 40%, but was given power by the conservatives. He didn't have to form a coalition and he used this power to disolve democracy.
[quote]By Outsider: Have you ever seen a muslim marry a non-muslim with out making the other convert first? <hr></blockquote>
Yes I have. A muslim man can marry a non-muslim woman. What a muslim woman can do however, is much debated and muslims disagree over this. But it is still happening. It is a matter of "how" you interpret your religion, and what kind of traditions your brought up with ofcourse... Muslims are as diverse as the rest of us. Some Christians and Jews are very uptight about this too...
[quote]By KILLA: I live with these jackals. I know them very well. Never ever believe a word they say to you. The can call you brother one day, and stick a knife in your throat the next if a good opportunity arrives. That?s an Arab for you. If you?d like to expand that to all Muslim I don?t think you?ll be stretching it much. <hr></blockquote>
Reminds me of a certain ideology, your words does...
[quote]By KILLA: Thank GOD for America. Maybe people will see in her an example to emulate. So far, not too many countries signed up ... <hr></blockquote>
Your country is certainly NOT one of them...
[quote]By NOAHJ: Cutting off the foreskin of a man will actually go a long way towards preventing infection. <hr></blockquote>
Both muslims and Jews do this. And no, with modern cleanliness, this is a myth. It might still be right in palestinian refugee camp...
[ 04-11-2002: Message edited by: New ]</p>
<strong>I think solo was a bit outspoken when stating then more innocent palestinians have dies than innocent Israelis.
This is also stands for steve666.
Neither of you have any numbers to support these claims.
To steve666 alone, you don't have a single SHRED of justification for making such a disgusting claim of Muslims being intolerant!
You have shown yourseld to be intolerant right here, along with PC^Killa and the rest who use blasphemous lies and rude insults to support them in an arguement.
You must learn to respect your opponent, and as for intolerance in MUSLIMS as you have so ignorantly put it, I know many Muslims and they are as kind to me as I AM TO THEM!
Maybe if you had a tolerant mind you would quit blithering this one-sided egocentric babble which has been spewn from years evolving in a closed-minded community!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Find me a meeting of Christian nations, Hindu nations, heck, ANY nation, that would say its legitimate for suicide bombings against innocent men, women, and children.
Its inconceivable that in this day and age Arabs are such hateful, violent people. I draw my conclusions from what I see and hear, from what goes on in the world. Noone here is saying that EVERY single muslim or Arab is intolerant or violent, but their silence is deafening when it comes to refuting those that advocate violence...................
Jordan doesn't have a port either-so what?
Palestnians are going to have to give in order to make a settlement. So far, they only expect israel to give. rarely do the losers in a war dictate terms of a settlement.
>By KILLA: Thank GOD for America. Maybe people will see in her an example to emulate. So far, not too many countries signed up ...
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your country is certainly NOT one of them...>
You mean a democracy, with a literate population , that works hard instead of strapping bombs on themselves, that doesn't celebrate when American civilians die?
Every Arab country would do well to emulate little Israel. ................................................
First of all, I can see that both Israelis and Palestinians have a rightful claim to the land. And, both sides have their abuses, and wrongdoings.
It is understandable (but NOT right) to me that someone whose family has lived in a refugee camp since 1948 would get disenchanted with their own life, and their family's life, and their community's life, and can only see that they can only make a difference by becoming a suicide bomber. It is in these refugee camps that there is a hotbed for terrorists and suicide bombers.
Again, it is understandable (but NOT right) to me that Israel would get upset with the increasing threat and respond violently to the terrorist threat.
However, I believe that the means being used (suicide bombers/military force) will not get a permanent solution. PC^KILLA, imagine how much think that the geographic region of Palestine (not the political state) belongs to Isreal. Do you not think that the Palestinians have those same strong feelings? Simply kicking out the Palestinians will not produce desirable results. Look at the US: we are so isolated geographically from Osama bin Laden and the perpetrators of the September 11 attacks. Can't you see that no matter how big of a fence you build, there will still be attacks on your nation? No matter how "pure" your society becomes, there will still be attacks.
Violence begets violence. You cannot expect to make an organization for suicide bombers, attack innocent civilians, and pay families to do this and not be attacked. Nor can you expect to invade the West Bank and run over cars with your tanks, uproot 150 year old olive trees, and search and destroy homes and not be attacked. It is the nasty cycle of redemptive violence: the idea that violence can be used to create peace.
In my opinion, the Palestinians, if they do the correct things, could very easily start the road to a peaceful solution. They can, with a few, well coordinated nonviolent acts, show their humanity to the Israelis and start the reconciliation process.
This is just my opinion, not necessarily facts.
~bauman
As a sidenote:
Many of you are using vast generalizations to characterize EVERY member of a religious group, race, or culture. Whether you like it or not, this is racism, and it is wrong.
<knee jerk conservative>
You liberals are so PC. Im not racist. I have talked to like, 3 of them so I just call em' like I see them. Go back to France and drink your wine!
</knee jerk conservative>
good post bauman
<strong>
Both muslims and Jews do this. And no, with modern cleanliness, this is a myth. It might still be right in palestinian refugee camp...
Sorry, but the chances of getting a urinal infection are greatly increased if you keep the foreskin rather than being circumcised. I don't care who does it, it is done. Sure with modern day cleanliness you greatly reduce the chance of infection, but it is still more likely with it than without. Period.
<strong>And if women cut their breasts off they won't get breast cancer. But that's absurd to do so. As far a circumcision goes; Don't like it, but i can see why it was done. In my opinion, we were born with it so I'm keeping mine!</strong><hr></blockquote>
A bit of a rediculous comparison there. If you have not been circumcised I don't recommend it for one over the age of 1 month as the pain would be intense to say the least.
Go check the map... Akaba (Al'Aqabah) is a port (fairly big on too...).
[quote]Palestnians are going to have to give in order to make a settlement. So far, they only expect israel to give. rarely do the losers in a war dictate terms of a settlement.<hr></blockquote>
The palestinians have been giving since 1948.
[quote] Every Arab country would do well to emulate little Israel. <hr></blockquote>
God forbid, we don't need more 35 year long invasions.
[quote] Sorry, but the chances of getting a urinal infection are greatly increased if you keep the foreskin rather than being circumcised. I don't care who does it, it is done. Sure with modern day cleanliness you greatly reduce the chance of infection, but it is still more likely with it than without. Period. <hr></blockquote>
Well if we can argue about this then we can argue about everything...
Good post bauman!
Interesting peace plan. A few questions:
1. What about the Golan Heights and the Sheeba Farms area? I'd think this issue needs to be resolved in order to have a true regional peace.
2. Israel will surely demand that the Palestinians in a future Palestinian state not form a conventional military force, or only a very limited one. What kind of security guarantees would you suggest?
3. What do you think of some sort of peacekeeping force, similar to the U.S. troops in the Sinai that separate Israel and Egypt?
4. Access to religious sites in Israel and Palestine. Some sort of accomodation needs to be reached here.
5. What about a Truth and Reconcilliation committee similar to what was done in South Africa? This might help heal old wounds.
Generally I like your ideas, although I don't think the Gaza/West Bank trade will work. Nonetheless, I rather talk peace ideas than trade ethnic/religious insults.
A new nation (democratic) formed to include all territories now seperated (Gaza, Israel, West Bank).
Rename it so it neither reflects jewish or muslim heritage .
Give Palistinians and Israelis alike full citizenship.
No official state religion.
Complete seperation of state and church.
Anything significant left out?
<strong>How about this:
A new nation (democratic) formed to include all territories now seperated (Gaza, Israel, West Bank).
Rename it so it neither reflects jewish or muslim heritage .
Give Palistinians and Israelis alike full citizenship.
No official state religion.
Complete seperation of state and church.
Anything significant left out?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Only reality... Neither nation would go for that in this lifetime...
That's an innovative idea, but I don't think it would work. The State of Israel is specifically premised on being a Jewish State created to protect the interests of Judaism. To submerge this into a secular Palestinian/Israeli combination I think would simply be unacceptable to Israelis. Nor would the Palestinians be any more accepting of this idea.
I also think that there is simply too much distrust, anger, and hatred on both sides to make this work.
Further, would Israel accept a secular state in which those of Palestinian descent would outnumber those Jewish descent? I doubt it as political power would rapidly shift to the Palestinian side because they could outvote the new Jewish minority in a true democractic state.
I believe that this is a case of good fences make for good neighbors.
Now the idea of making Jerusalem a neutral city-state (like the Vatican but governed by a board representing all three major religions in the region) has been kicked around for a while. As has the idea of making Jerusalem the capital of both Israel and Palestine.
This is just my humble opinion.
[ 04-12-2002: Message edited by: gobble gobble ]</p>
Welcome back gobble gobble, you started this, so your views are very welcome!
Thanks! I dropped out when the conversation devolved to ethnic/racial slurs and untempered opinions. I thought that Steve 666 and Outsider made valid attempts in their last posts to discuss the issues and thought I would respond in kind. Otherwise I just lurk from time to time.
Does anyone else out there have any suggestions as to what a workable peace plan might look like?
<strong>New,
Thanks! I dropped out when the conversation devolved to ethnic/racial slurs and untempered opinions. I thought that Steve 666 and Outsider made valid attempts in their last posts to discuss the issues and thought I would respond in kind. Otherwise I just lurk from time to time.
Does anyone else out there have any suggestions as to what a workable peace plan might look like?</strong><hr></blockquote>
If God himself came down and drew a line around what he wanted Israel to have and what he wanted Palestine to have you might have peace for a while. But I bet that within 10 years they would be fighting again over who got the better land, and that one's portion was bigger than the other. When there is peace, true peace, in Israel, be prepared for the bad stuff that will come about 3 years later...