So I have both phones. My iPhone 4 drops very quickly when I put my fingers on the death spot. However, on my Blackberry Bold 9700, no matter how I grip it or where I grip it or even as suggested I grip it like that for 2 minutes, I cannot duplicate the problem. I love my iPhone, but I will say my Blackberry has a much better signal. I agree this problem is overblown, but Apple needs to focus on their products instead of blaming everyone else. I would love to see all the companies get together and work to solve this problem, but that will never happen.
The more I hear people complaining about death grip, the more I am convinced that these are mostly from people who want their calls to fail.
You may be right. If I were on the phone with you I would definately want the call to fail so I could get away.
Perhaps that's why Apple built a "call kill" feature into the iPhone 4. Perhaps it was intentional. In-laws bugging you? Friend who wants to borrow money? Lady friend you want to get rid of??
Bink! I don't know what happened! Must have been the phone! Blast Apple and AT&T!!
You're on appleinsider, of course there will be fanboys who will defend apple to the death. There are pretty much 3 major types of people on this forum.
Think that sums it up quite well for every discussion on this site.
Personally I'm type 4. Don't really care if there is or isn't an issue as I don't want the phone (already have an iPhone would just be buying the same thing again but slightly different), but do find it quite amusing after years of Apple pointing out bad things in other peoples products they've now got a news story about them that they can't kill.
Also find the argument that it's fixed with case highly amusing. Really what's the point buying one of the most expensive phones that looks awesome to then cover it up?
So I have both phones. My iPhone 4 drops very quickly when I put my fingers on the death spot. However, on my Blackberry Bold 9700, no matter how I grip it or where I grip it or even as suggested I grip it like that for 2 minutes, I cannot duplicate the problem. I love my iPhone, but I will say my Blackberry has a much better signal. I agree this problem is overblown, but Apple needs to focus on their products instead of blaming everyone else. I would love to see all the companies get together and work to solve this problem, but that will never happen.
I have had access to several 9700 and they do go down as shown in this non-Apple test in the link below.
So I have both phones. My iPhone 4 drops very quickly when I put my fingers on the death spot. However, on my Blackberry Bold 9700, no matter how I grip it or where I grip it or even as suggested I grip it like that for 2 minutes, I cannot duplicate the problem. I love my iPhone, but I will say my Blackberry has a much better signal. I agree this problem is overblown, but Apple needs to focus on their products instead of blaming everyone else. I would love to see all the companies get together and work to solve this problem, but that will never happen.
i have both phones and I can tell you both phones drops bars but they BOTH continue to be able to make phone calls.
So I have both phones. My iPhone 4 drops very quickly when I put my fingers on the death spot. However, on my Blackberry Bold 9700, no matter how I grip it or where I grip it or even as suggested I grip it like that for 2 minutes, I cannot duplicate the problem. I love my iPhone, but I will say my Blackberry has a much better signal. I agree this problem is overblown, but Apple needs to focus on their products instead of blaming everyone else. I would love to see all the companies get together and work to solve this problem, but that will never happen.
I've been watching this thread for a bit trying to get a flavor of what people are thinking regarding this antenna issue. As an American that has lived around the world and have experience quite a few networks, I have come to the conclusion that there is an unprecedented amount of whining going on. Phones, ALL PHONES, drop calls. It is a fact of cellular technology. Maybe it's because the US has been the hind end of cellular usage for some time or maybe most people simply do not understand the technology involved. Who knows? Having friends that work at Nokia has confirmed the fact that Apple did nothing wrong in their design (Nokia had similar issues but now puts a coating on some of their antenna designs to prevent the grounding) and it is by far one of the most innovative out there. This is almost a non-issue. If this had not been Apple, with the way Jobs answered things initially, and a few other missteps, the news would not have bothered to report it.
You're on appleinsider, of course there will be fanboys who will defend apple to the death. There are pretty much 3 major types of people on this forum.
1) Diehard fanboys. Their opinion changes along with every press release apple makes. They believe there is NOTHING wrong with the phone and the iphone has the EXACT SAME issues as any other phone. Their arguments consist of regurgitating everything Steve Jobs has said about the issue. These people don't seem to grasp the difference between the effect on the iphone from a touch vs squeezing the life out of competing phones.
2) Rational iPhone owners/prospective buyers. These people recognize that the iPhone is more sensitive to touch than other phones, but since the issue is fixed by a case and many are unaffected, they don't care about it. If an otherwise excellent phone is fixed by a case for those affected, its up to the user if a case is a dealbreaker vs ownership of the phone.
3) Irrational trolls. These people endlessly aim to convince people this issue is massive, and seek out confirmation from Apple users to reaffirm their dislike for apple. These people can be seen endlessly posting only the negative aspects of the iphone or rejoicing whenever there's a news report or article with negativity about the iphone. These people don't seem to grasp that while there is an issue, most people DON'T CARE and as long as it can be easily remedied its fine with most.
Kind of forgot the Mac users didn't you? I have been on this site for long time before Apple created the first true smart phone. Many of us are here mainly because of Mac OS X and Macs in general. Although obviously we tend to appreciate other Apple products too.
This spat between Apple and the other smartphone makers is going to get worse. Especially when the iPhone appears on Verizon (and maybe Sprint).
Even though I think the situation is solved as giving a bumper/cover is effectively a redesign in the field - with the benefit of allowing users to select their color
Apple are going to have to:
1 - Coat the antenna with a clear durable insulator spray - so the issue is not reproducible on a phone without a cover/bumper
2 - Redesign and move the antenna inside the phone thus reducing aesthetics and forcing other compromises. Of course this is what the FanDroids and other Smartphone makers want. It also allows the "told you so" moment. I aslo feel this is why the debate is raging on. People - HTC, Google, Motorola, RIM, Nokia, Fandroids want their "Ha Ha" told you so moment.
3- Buy a company like Zagg with their clear sheilds and include them in the product when shipped
You're on appleinsider, of course there will be fanboys who will defend apple to the death. There are pretty much 3 major types of people on this forum.
1) Diehard fanboys. Their opinion changes along with every press release apple makes. They believe there is NOTHING wrong with the phone and the iphone has the EXACT SAME issues as any other phone. Their arguments consist of regurgitating everything Steve Jobs has said about the issue. These people don't seem to grasp the difference between the effect on the iphone from a touch vs squeezing the life out of competing phones.
2) Rational iPhone owners/prospective buyers. These people recognize that the iPhone is more sensitive to touch than other phones, but since the issue is fixed by a case and many are unaffected, they don't care about it. If an otherwise excellent phone is fixed by a case for those affected, its up to the user if a case is a dealbreaker vs ownership of the phone.
3) Irrational trolls. These people endlessly aim to convince people this issue is massive, and seek out confirmation from Apple users to reaffirm their dislike for apple. These people can be seen endlessly posting only the negative aspects of the iphone or rejoicing whenever there's a news report or article with negativity about the iphone. These people don't seem to grasp that while there is an issue, most people DON'T CARE and as long as it can be easily remedied its fine with most.
You missed the most obvious category:
4) Posters who ACTUALLY OWN AN iPhone 4, who know for a fact how overblown this baseless and useless FUD is, and have not had any issues whatsoever.
1, Blackberry would love to bring iPhone 4 down as corporations are starting to buy them.
2. Gizmodo: Stolen property traders extraordinaire who got into trouble for buying stolen iPhone 4 prototype.
Companies can go to great lengths to make trouble for their competitors when they really feel threaten. It's interesting how Steve mentioned that "they" were trying to bring Google down as well in the Q & A. Google is a big challenge to RIMM in the consumer market.
It is, but RIM was right in what they said. Apple used other examples to divert attention to their specific problem, which is signal decrease higher than the norm in terms of dbm. There was no need to draw them into this, especially if they weren't going to be thorough in the style of anandtech and show exactly how this counts in terms of dbm and how it affects the performance of the phones.
I was under the impression is that if you were in a lawsuit where someone accused you of making an antenna that lost signal, it would be expected that your defense lawyer would try to show that signal loss is not unique to your antenna. If you are not the only one whose antenna obeys the laws of physics and degrades then there is no good reason for someone to single you out. You can bet Apple's lawyers checked out what Jobs had to say and that they were not opening themselves up. Nokia and RIM are just pissed that they are getting called in to the boxing ring when they were happy to jab from the stands.
This is getting pretty boring. The simple fact is that Apple has offered people their money back if they are not happy and those people should take that offer and go buy an Android, a Crackberry or a Nokia. Or, they could be like me and have a Tracfone! Just $100 a year for all the service I ever use! And I get roll-over minutes if I renew before my card expires.
I've been watching this thread for a bit trying to get a flavor of what people are thinking regarding this antenna issue. As an American that has lived around the world and have experience quite a few networks, I have come to the conclusion that there is an unprecedented amount of whining going on. Phones, ALL PHONES, drop calls. It is a fact of cellular technology. Maybe it's because the US has been the hind end of cellular usage for some time or maybe most people simply do not understand the technology involved. Who knows? Having friends that work at Nokia has confirmed the fact that Apple did nothing wrong in their design (Nokia had similar issues but now puts a coating on some of their antenna designs to prevent the grounding) and it is by far one of the most innovative out there. This is almost a non-issue. If this had not been Apple, with the way Jobs answered things initially, and a few other missteps, the news would not have bothered to report it.
A customer is seated in a crowed restaurant at the peak of dinner hour.
-- The waiter approaches: "Good Evening, Sir-- what may I get get for you?"
-- The customer replies: "The same as last time!"
Sadly, I don't think it is so much a technology issue-- or even one of facts. Rather, it is an issue of entitlement-- it goes something like this:
-- I am entitled to have everything I want
-- I am perfect, therefore the things I use must be perfect, too
-- I do not need to adapt to the way something works to exploit it, rather, the thing needs to adapt to me
-- My standards are the highest, therefore I get to decide how and what others must do meet them
-- I am looking out for the good of mankind, etc, therefore I am entitled to criticize others on their motives, performance, etc.
-- Though I have no intention of using a product, I am entitled to decide what is acceptable to others, for their own good.
-- I need not explain my reasoning, nor supply supporting facts, I am entitled to my opinion and others must accept it, prima facie.
-- I am aware that others are not as enlightened as me, so I will assume the burden of educating them
-- I am a speaker of truth and you must follow and remember everything I say
I suspect, that Americans exhibit the "entitlement mentality" more than citizens of other countries. We've always had it pretty good in America-- it is easy to fall into the trap that we are "entitled" to have the best of everything. The welfare society, journalism, and advertising do a lot to support that attitude.
Reading through these threads for the past 3 weeks, you see a lot of posts that exhibit one or more of the above "entitlement" characteristics.
Humans, being what we are, are all guilty, to some extent, of an entitlement mentality-- I know that I am!
But, if you follow, the content and logic of some who post here, you will often find a hidden agenda with an "entitlement mentality" in that their offerings are above reproach-- If you don't get it, it is because you just haven't been paying attention to the truths they've offered. But, fear not, they will deign to repeat their truths for as long as it takes to bring us to a state of enlightenment,
Again, sadly, this only adds cruft, and detracts from, nay, overwhelms the reasoned discussion of problems or their solution.
I hope Consumer Reports subjects new phones from Nokia and RIM to the same rigorous testing they did to the iPhone. All of these competitors of Apple who fanned the flames need to be careful because now their equipment will be scrutinized under a microscope just like Steve Jobs had his equipment inspected and dissected by the media.
Comments
The more I hear people complaining about death grip, the more I am convinced that these are mostly from people who want their calls to fail.
You may be right. If I were on the phone with you I would definately want the call to fail so I could get away.
Perhaps that's why Apple built a "call kill" feature into the iPhone 4. Perhaps it was intentional. In-laws bugging you? Friend who wants to borrow money? Lady friend you want to get rid of??
Bink! I don't know what happened! Must have been the phone! Blast Apple and AT&T!!
You're on appleinsider, of course there will be fanboys who will defend apple to the death. There are pretty much 3 major types of people on this forum.
Think that sums it up quite well for every discussion on this site.
Personally I'm type 4. Don't really care if there is or isn't an issue as I don't want the phone (already have an iPhone would just be buying the same thing again but slightly different), but do find it quite amusing after years of Apple pointing out bad things in other peoples products they've now got a news story about them that they can't kill.
Also find the argument that it's fixed with case highly amusing. Really what's the point buying one of the most expensive phones that looks awesome to then cover it up?
So I have both phones. My iPhone 4 drops very quickly when I put my fingers on the death spot. However, on my Blackberry Bold 9700, no matter how I grip it or where I grip it or even as suggested I grip it like that for 2 minutes, I cannot duplicate the problem. I love my iPhone, but I will say my Blackberry has a much better signal. I agree this problem is overblown, but Apple needs to focus on their products instead of blaming everyone else. I would love to see all the companies get together and work to solve this problem, but that will never happen.
I have had access to several 9700 and they do go down as shown in this non-Apple test in the link below.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TG3njXcrg0
ciao
Do they even stop to think? Just for a half a moment?
The iP4 has sold MORE than 34 TIMES that of the stupid droid. Of course they have more complaints.
So I have both phones. My iPhone 4 drops very quickly when I put my fingers on the death spot. However, on my Blackberry Bold 9700, no matter how I grip it or where I grip it or even as suggested I grip it like that for 2 minutes, I cannot duplicate the problem. I love my iPhone, but I will say my Blackberry has a much better signal. I agree this problem is overblown, but Apple needs to focus on their products instead of blaming everyone else. I would love to see all the companies get together and work to solve this problem, but that will never happen.
i have both phones and I can tell you both phones drops bars but they BOTH continue to be able to make phone calls.
So I have both phones. My iPhone 4 drops very quickly when I put my fingers on the death spot. However, on my Blackberry Bold 9700, no matter how I grip it or where I grip it or even as suggested I grip it like that for 2 minutes, I cannot duplicate the problem. I love my iPhone, but I will say my Blackberry has a much better signal. I agree this problem is overblown, but Apple needs to focus on their products instead of blaming everyone else. I would love to see all the companies get together and work to solve this problem, but that will never happen.
Are you making fun of my nickname or the picture?
Not your name. The photo just reminded me of the old joke about the Oakland A's, former known as the Oakland Athletics.
So, if you were a supporter of the A's, then you obviously were an Athletics supporter!
BTW: I once had a client by the name of Richard Wacker. He insisted on being called "Dick". Go figure!
I found this story:
The Death Grip Drama Queens
http://jimlynch.com/index.php/2010/0...-drama-queens/
and it has an interesting link:
Apple Becomes Enemy of the State
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/dai...108.guest.html
It is rather long and contains a bit of bluster-- though, not so much as some the antennagate diatribes!
If you take the time to read through the article you will find an interesting perspective,
.
Click the link:
http://androidforums.com/
Begin posting.
Game.
Set.
Match!
As I said, i don't own any Android devices, so why would I post there? I do own several Apple devices though, hence why I am here.
Right.
Now go be a good boy and follow the nice soldier's advice about having a nice cup of STFU.
You're on appleinsider, of course there will be fanboys who will defend apple to the death. There are pretty much 3 major types of people on this forum.
1) Diehard fanboys. Their opinion changes along with every press release apple makes. They believe there is NOTHING wrong with the phone and the iphone has the EXACT SAME issues as any other phone. Their arguments consist of regurgitating everything Steve Jobs has said about the issue. These people don't seem to grasp the difference between the effect on the iphone from a touch vs squeezing the life out of competing phones.
2) Rational iPhone owners/prospective buyers. These people recognize that the iPhone is more sensitive to touch than other phones, but since the issue is fixed by a case and many are unaffected, they don't care about it. If an otherwise excellent phone is fixed by a case for those affected, its up to the user if a case is a dealbreaker vs ownership of the phone.
3) Irrational trolls. These people endlessly aim to convince people this issue is massive, and seek out confirmation from Apple users to reaffirm their dislike for apple. These people can be seen endlessly posting only the negative aspects of the iphone or rejoicing whenever there's a news report or article with negativity about the iphone. These people don't seem to grasp that while there is an issue, most people DON'T CARE and as long as it can be easily remedied its fine with most.
Kind of forgot the Mac users didn't you? I have been on this site for long time before Apple created the first true smart phone. Many of us are here mainly because of Mac OS X and Macs in general. Although obviously we tend to appreciate other Apple products too.
Fixed.
Bing!
Even though I think the situation is solved as giving a bumper/cover is effectively a redesign in the field - with the benefit of allowing users to select their color
Apple are going to have to:
1 - Coat the antenna with a clear durable insulator spray - so the issue is not reproducible on a phone without a cover/bumper
2 - Redesign and move the antenna inside the phone thus reducing aesthetics and forcing other compromises. Of course this is what the FanDroids and other Smartphone makers want. It also allows the "told you so" moment. I aslo feel this is why the debate is raging on. People - HTC, Google, Motorola, RIM, Nokia, Fandroids want their "Ha Ha" told you so moment.
3- Buy a company like Zagg with their clear sheilds and include them in the product when shipped
http://www.zagg.com/invisibleshield/...ns-shields.php
Even though the free bumpers are technically enough, Apple will have to do one of the above to really kill this IMO.
You're on appleinsider, of course there will be fanboys who will defend apple to the death. There are pretty much 3 major types of people on this forum.
1) Diehard fanboys. Their opinion changes along with every press release apple makes. They believe there is NOTHING wrong with the phone and the iphone has the EXACT SAME issues as any other phone. Their arguments consist of regurgitating everything Steve Jobs has said about the issue. These people don't seem to grasp the difference between the effect on the iphone from a touch vs squeezing the life out of competing phones.
2) Rational iPhone owners/prospective buyers. These people recognize that the iPhone is more sensitive to touch than other phones, but since the issue is fixed by a case and many are unaffected, they don't care about it. If an otherwise excellent phone is fixed by a case for those affected, its up to the user if a case is a dealbreaker vs ownership of the phone.
3) Irrational trolls. These people endlessly aim to convince people this issue is massive, and seek out confirmation from Apple users to reaffirm their dislike for apple. These people can be seen endlessly posting only the negative aspects of the iphone or rejoicing whenever there's a news report or article with negativity about the iphone. These people don't seem to grasp that while there is an issue, most people DON'T CARE and as long as it can be easily remedied its fine with most.
You missed the most obvious category:
4) Posters who ACTUALLY OWN AN iPhone 4, who know for a fact how overblown this baseless and useless FUD is, and have not had any issues whatsoever.
1, Blackberry would love to bring iPhone 4 down as corporations are starting to buy them.
2. Gizmodo: Stolen property traders extraordinaire who got into trouble for buying stolen iPhone 4 prototype.
Companies can go to great lengths to make trouble for their competitors when they really feel threaten. It's interesting how Steve mentioned that "they" were trying to bring Google down as well in the Q & A. Google is a big challenge to RIMM in the consumer market.
Time will tell.
It is, but RIM was right in what they said. Apple used other examples to divert attention to their specific problem, which is signal decrease higher than the norm in terms of dbm. There was no need to draw them into this, especially if they weren't going to be thorough in the style of anandtech and show exactly how this counts in terms of dbm and how it affects the performance of the phones.
I was under the impression is that if you were in a lawsuit where someone accused you of making an antenna that lost signal, it would be expected that your defense lawyer would try to show that signal loss is not unique to your antenna. If you are not the only one whose antenna obeys the laws of physics and degrades then there is no good reason for someone to single you out. You can bet Apple's lawyers checked out what Jobs had to say and that they were not opening themselves up. Nokia and RIM are just pissed that they are getting called in to the boxing ring when they were happy to jab from the stands.
This is getting pretty boring. The simple fact is that Apple has offered people their money back if they are not happy and those people should take that offer and go buy an Android, a Crackberry or a Nokia. Or, they could be like me and have a Tracfone! Just $100 a year for all the service I ever use! And I get roll-over minutes if I renew before my card expires.
I've been watching this thread for a bit trying to get a flavor of what people are thinking regarding this antenna issue. As an American that has lived around the world and have experience quite a few networks, I have come to the conclusion that there is an unprecedented amount of whining going on. Phones, ALL PHONES, drop calls. It is a fact of cellular technology. Maybe it's because the US has been the hind end of cellular usage for some time or maybe most people simply do not understand the technology involved. Who knows? Having friends that work at Nokia has confirmed the fact that Apple did nothing wrong in their design (Nokia had similar issues but now puts a coating on some of their antenna designs to prevent the grounding) and it is by far one of the most innovative out there. This is almost a non-issue. If this had not been Apple, with the way Jobs answered things initially, and a few other missteps, the news would not have bothered to report it.
A customer is seated in a crowed restaurant at the peak of dinner hour.
-- The waiter approaches: "Good Evening, Sir-- what may I get get for you?"
-- The customer replies: "The same as last time!"
Sadly, I don't think it is so much a technology issue-- or even one of facts. Rather, it is an issue of entitlement-- it goes something like this:
-- I am entitled to have everything I want
-- I am perfect, therefore the things I use must be perfect, too
-- I do not need to adapt to the way something works to exploit it, rather, the thing needs to adapt to me
-- My standards are the highest, therefore I get to decide how and what others must do meet them
-- I am looking out for the good of mankind, etc, therefore I am entitled to criticize others on their motives, performance, etc.
-- Though I have no intention of using a product, I am entitled to decide what is acceptable to others, for their own good.
-- I need not explain my reasoning, nor supply supporting facts, I am entitled to my opinion and others must accept it, prima facie.
-- I am aware that others are not as enlightened as me, so I will assume the burden of educating them
-- I am a speaker of truth and you must follow and remember everything I say
I suspect, that Americans exhibit the "entitlement mentality" more than citizens of other countries. We've always had it pretty good in America-- it is easy to fall into the trap that we are "entitled" to have the best of everything. The welfare society, journalism, and advertising do a lot to support that attitude.
Reading through these threads for the past 3 weeks, you see a lot of posts that exhibit one or more of the above "entitlement" characteristics.
Humans, being what we are, are all guilty, to some extent, of an entitlement mentality-- I know that I am!
But, if you follow, the content and logic of some who post here, you will often find a hidden agenda with an "entitlement mentality" in that their offerings are above reproach-- If you don't get it, it is because you just haven't been paying attention to the truths they've offered. But, fear not, they will deign to repeat their truths for as long as it takes to bring us to a state of enlightenment,
Again, sadly, this only adds cruft, and detracts from, nay, overwhelms the reasoned discussion of problems or their solution.
.
Payback is a bitch.