"Largest seller of PCs in the world" is FALSE. Apple does not make PC therefore cannot be compare to PC makers like Dell, Sony, HP etc.
In the other this could be good for the consumer since PC price will keep dropping as Apple collect the PC market share.
In the context of this article, you are incorrect. The term originally was Windows PC to distinguish the Apple personal computer from a Windows personal computer. As Apple over time retained so little of the market, the term Windows PC was contracted by common use to simply PC.
The argument to this article is if the iPad is a computer?
Who cares, I mean really... is it that big of a deal if and iPad is or is not a computer?
People are getting insulting because they disagree if an iPad is a computer?
Wow....
It's an "Apple Thing".
The RDF was often deployed by use of subtle redefinitions of words. It worked brilliantly.
But some people now try to show off by redefining words in silly ways, almost like a competition to see who can most twist a word while retaining some sort of specious plausibility. By doing so, mastery of the RDF technique is demonstrated. Those who can twist the furthest and thereby most solidly cement a shibboleth are the winners.
1) Calling it a mobile PC is a classification, so the article did classify it.
2) Aren't notebooks mobile PCs, too. I know some are quite large and hard to lug around but they are, by design, mobile with their batteries and collapsing lids.
I was responding to :
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
Originally Posted by techguy911
Yes, because the entire point of the article is about sales figures based on how the iPad is classified.
Point of the article was not about "article is about sales figures based on how the iPad is classified", it was total sales and how Apple is posed to be the largest PC maker.
People on this forum started an argument about iPad classification as to if it was a PC or not.
My point is who cares about that, lets celebrate Apple products are no longer the source of jokes but rather a dominate force once again.
Notebooks, netbooks, tablets and smart phones are all mobile PC's in my eyes.
I can do more with an iPhone and a BB torch than I could with a Windows 98 and Windows 2000 PC (which was the bench mark for PC's just 10-11 years ago).
The fact is that in the post PC era, sales of PCs are going to slow and will be taken up by mobile devices such as tablets. This is already happening. The iPad can do nearly everything that a PC can do. Using netbooks today (which are considered PCs) is a terrible experience. The truth is that doing most things is easier and more convenient on something like an iPad for most people. (I'm not discounting Android tablets here BTW, I just haven't used one directly)
So, given that consumer purchases are shifting to non-PC devices, those who look at trends need to determine who is best suited in this new era. That is why they are combining tablets with PC numbers to determine that. I'm not sure they are calling the iPad a PC, but that it offers the same functionality as one and is displacing sales of PCs.
The concept behind the iPad is still the same as a typical "personal computer", the only difference is the form factors and that there is less emphasis on creation than a typical personal microcomputer. The reason why a lot of people will not be calling it a "PC" is because it is not a typical desktop or notebook machine.
The fact still remains that it is still a personal electronic computer, as its primary function is processing given input data that results in a given output. You would not consider a smart phone a personal computer because its primary function is as a telephone and communications device. Its all about what the device is designed to do as its primary function.
I can buy a Desktop "PC" and not make it a "PC" anymore by changing its primary function from a computing personal data to computing data requested over a network. Suddenly, I have a Server when by the logic of many people in these forums it should still be a personal computer. I'm guessing it'll be because of the form factor.
The least expensive iPod Touch has many times the capabilities of the personal computers of the 1980-2000 era at a fraction of the cost.
Based on capability, One could say: including a pc in the same category as an iPad is a travesty... there are many things that a pc is just not capable of doing! (and pcs don't run a proper OS or have a proper UI/UX)
You nailed that point! How many PCs can do everything that an iPad can do, none that I know of!!! Perhaps now the term PC can die in respect of something useful.
Classifying any (current)tablet as a computer with it's stripped down OS and reduced functionality is a travesty to the term Personal Computer.
Justify that statement.
I continually hear that assertation, and when you drill down, you find that the definition of 'computer' would essentially remove any PC made more than 10 years ago.
What people generally come back with their ultimate definition is that to be a 'computer', you have to be able to program for the device on the device itself.
I don't know where this definition comes from, but I call BS on it.
As for any other features, I can do everything on my iPad that I could do on a '90s PC, and WAY more.
But it is NOT a PC, as the term is generally used.
And neither is a tablet computer. These categories exist to differentiate and to aid in understanding. If they all overlap to the point of non-differentiation, then they lose utility.
If one were to put two pictures up, one of an iMac and one of an iPad, and we asked test subjects to pick the PC, what sort of results might we expect? And why? Because the terms mean different things, no matter how many similarities between the two things one can identify.
The fact is, both PCs and Tablets are subsets of the concept "computer". But they are different categories nevertheless.
I can't believe you are arguing the term PC. PC is Personal Computer. Is the iPhone personal? is a it a computer? you've got your answer.
You are thinking desktop computer or workstation which the iPad and iPhone aren't, but they all are PCs.
I think the debate about whether the iPad can be catalogued as a PC or not is of little interest. The real issue is : will it some day replace the PC ? I think yes, except in limited cases (in the same way as mobile computers did not totally replace desktops). The "strategy" consisting in considering that they are no threat to PCs will prove to be a major deadly mistake, for the ones who adopt it. But it is already too late for them ....
And if all he wants to do is to add, subtract, multiply and divide, then the calculator on his keychain is a PC.
And if he someday wants to calculate a square root? Then it is no longer a PC.
At least, that seems to be what your logic leads to...
No. Because I think we can all agree that a PC is not a mono use device.
I think people are getting all jumbled in this argument as to what the goal is- which is to define the appropriate market segment for the iPad.
Smartphones can do a lot of the same basic tasks, but is anyone WANTING to pitch smartphones into the PC category? No. They have their own market segment that people are jockeying for position in.
In the PC market, the goal is general multipurpose computing. The iPad fits that definition. Just because it has a different form factor and use case doesn't make it any less a computer than a laptop is for the same reasons. If the iPad ran OSX proper- would it be a PC then? If so, then aren't we just discussing UI semantics?
When we refer to "PCs" that's a term for a general purpose computer that can have any OS loaded, unrestricted applications and supports all common devices (keyboard, mouse, printer, scanner, monitor, video capture, webcams, pen drives, etc.).
Here's the main difference: PCs are designed do anything and everything.
Since when is the ability to run any OS a criterion for being a computer? By that definition, an IBM mainframe is not a computer.
And as far as being able to do 'anything and everything',
1) since my iPad can do many things a PC can't, does that mean only iPads are computers?
2) I can point right now to 10,000 granular apps that replace the functionality of general purpose spreadsheets, and do the job far better. Saying that pots aren't pots unless you throw and fire the clay yourself is essentially the argument that's being made here.
The argument about what is and isn't a 'computer' is essentially the digital priesthood crying in the night about their impending loss of power.
Again, show me a canonical definition of 'computer' that isn't more than just a self justifying opinion that takes the attributes of the device I support.
...Don't know if the "tablet" format is the most personal... Now, a "Suppository" format -- that'd be personal!
The problem is that many arguments disconnect the terms PC and personal computer. For many people, the iPad is all the personal computer that they need but it doesn't seem to fit the description of a PC. If this article is about personal computing then the iPad surely qualifies. As a Windows PC it doesn't - thankfully!
Classifying any (current)tablet as a computer with it's stripped down OS and reduced functionality is a travesty to the term Personal Computer.
Classification of the device is irrelevant to the point, which is whether the device is cannibalizing sales in the PC market. When people started buying cars instead of horses, it wasn't because they thought the car was a horse.
The real challenge with the "cannibalization" assertion is that there's not any particularly definitive research which shows whether tablets are being treated as supplementing or cannibalizing the PC market.
The RDF was often deployed by use of subtle redefinitions of words. It worked brilliantly.
But some people now try to show off by redefining words in silly ways, almost like a competition to see who can most twist a word while retaining some sort of specious plausibility. By doing so, mastery of the RDF technique is demonstrated. Those who can twist the furthest and thereby most solidly cement a shibboleth are the winners.
You wouldn't understand. It is an Apple Thing.
Interesting since
1) you didn't address the point at hand, and
2) your side is essentially committing the sin you accuse the other of. Redefining words.
Again... show me the definition of 'computer' that excludes the iPad. One that isn't pulled out of a convenient orifice.
Comments
"Largest seller of PCs in the world" is FALSE. Apple does not make PC therefore cannot be compare to PC makers like Dell, Sony, HP etc.
In the other this could be good for the consumer since PC price will keep dropping as Apple collect the PC market share.
In the context of this article, you are incorrect. The term originally was Windows PC to distinguish the Apple personal computer from a Windows personal computer. As Apple over time retained so little of the market, the term Windows PC was contracted by common use to simply PC.
Seriously
The argument to this article is if the iPad is a computer?
Who cares, I mean really... is it that big of a deal if and iPad is or is not a computer?
People are getting insulting because they disagree if an iPad is a computer?
Wow....
It's an "Apple Thing".
The RDF was often deployed by use of subtle redefinitions of words. It worked brilliantly.
But some people now try to show off by redefining words in silly ways, almost like a competition to see who can most twist a word while retaining some sort of specious plausibility. By doing so, mastery of the RDF technique is demonstrated. Those who can twist the furthest and thereby most solidly cement a shibboleth are the winners.
You wouldn't understand. It is an Apple Thing.
1) Calling it a mobile PC is a classification, so the article did classify it.
2) Aren't notebooks mobile PCs, too. I know some are quite large and hard to lug around but they are, by design, mobile with their batteries and collapsing lids.
I was responding to :
Originally Posted by techguy911
Yes, because the entire point of the article is about sales figures based on how the iPad is classified.
Point of the article was not about "article is about sales figures based on how the iPad is classified", it was total sales and how Apple is posed to be the largest PC maker.
People on this forum started an argument about iPad classification as to if it was a PC or not.
My point is who cares about that, lets celebrate Apple products are no longer the source of jokes but rather a dominate force once again.
Notebooks, netbooks, tablets and smart phones are all mobile PC's in my eyes.
I can do more with an iPhone and a BB torch than I could with a Windows 98 and Windows 2000 PC (which was the bench mark for PC's just 10-11 years ago).
Bad analogy imo.
By your definition a laptop would not be a personal computer.
I never stated my definition of a personal computer.
But for the record, by my definition, a PC has most (but not always all) of the following characteristics:
- x86 architecture
- Modular hardware architecture
- High power consumption
- Designed for use with a desktop operating system
So, given that consumer purchases are shifting to non-PC devices, those who look at trends need to determine who is best suited in this new era. That is why they are combining tablets with PC numbers to determine that. I'm not sure they are calling the iPad a PC, but that it offers the same functionality as one and is displacing sales of PCs.
The fact still remains that it is still a personal electronic computer, as its primary function is processing given input data that results in a given output. You would not consider a smart phone a personal computer because its primary function is as a telephone and communications device. Its all about what the device is designed to do as its primary function.
I can buy a Desktop "PC" and not make it a "PC" anymore by changing its primary function from a computing personal data to computing data requested over a network. Suddenly, I have a Server when by the logic of many people in these forums it should still be a personal computer. I'm guessing it'll be because of the form factor.
Which era?
The least expensive iPod Touch has many times the capabilities of the personal computers of the 1980-2000 era at a fraction of the cost.
Based on capability, One could say: including a pc in the same category as an iPad is a travesty... there are many things that a pc is just not capable of doing! (and pcs don't run a proper OS or have a proper UI/UX)
You nailed that point! How many PCs can do everything that an iPad can do, none that I know of!!! Perhaps now the term PC can die in respect of something useful.
Classifying any (current)tablet as a computer with it's stripped down OS and reduced functionality is a travesty to the term Personal Computer.
Justify that statement.
I continually hear that assertation, and when you drill down, you find that the definition of 'computer' would essentially remove any PC made more than 10 years ago.
What people generally come back with their ultimate definition is that to be a 'computer', you have to be able to program for the device on the device itself.
I don't know where this definition comes from, but I call BS on it.
As for any other features, I can do everything on my iPad that I could do on a '90s PC, and WAY more.
So tell me why its not a computer.
Of course it is a computer.
But it is NOT a PC, as the term is generally used.
And neither is a tablet computer. These categories exist to differentiate and to aid in understanding. If they all overlap to the point of non-differentiation, then they lose utility.
If one were to put two pictures up, one of an iMac and one of an iPad, and we asked test subjects to pick the PC, what sort of results might we expect? And why? Because the terms mean different things, no matter how many similarities between the two things one can identify.
The fact is, both PCs and Tablets are subsets of the concept "computer". But they are different categories nevertheless.
I can't believe you are arguing the term PC. PC is Personal Computer. Is the iPhone personal? is a it a computer? you've got your answer.
You are thinking desktop computer or workstation which the iPad and iPhone aren't, but they all are PCs.
So the difference is a webcam and a "pen drive?"
I think that if you consider a webcam to be a pen drive, Logitech would be the biggest manufacturer of pen drives in the world.
Something to consider.
And if all he wants to do is to add, subtract, multiply and divide, then the calculator on his keychain is a PC.
And if he someday wants to calculate a square root? Then it is no longer a PC.
At least, that seems to be what your logic leads to...
No. Because I think we can all agree that a PC is not a mono use device.
I think people are getting all jumbled in this argument as to what the goal is- which is to define the appropriate market segment for the iPad.
Smartphones can do a lot of the same basic tasks, but is anyone WANTING to pitch smartphones into the PC category? No. They have their own market segment that people are jockeying for position in.
In the PC market, the goal is general multipurpose computing. The iPad fits that definition. Just because it has a different form factor and use case doesn't make it any less a computer than a laptop is for the same reasons. If the iPad ran OSX proper- would it be a PC then? If so, then aren't we just discussing UI semantics?
I never stated my definition of a personal computer.
But for the record, by my definition, a PC has most (but not always all) of the following characteristics:
- x86 architecture
- Modular hardware architecture
- High power consumption
- Designed for use with a desktop operating system
C'mon... really... you're going with "I never stated my definition...".
What was with the car/motorcycle thing.
A motorcycle can never be a car.
as in
A laptop can never be a desktop.
Do you see how a person could get confused by the logic in your original analogy.
You can't get more Personal than a tablet computer.
...Don't know if the "tablet" format is the most personal... Now, a "Suppository" format -- that'd be personal!
Yes, something tells me that you actually do use your toaster as a "personal" computer.
Nailed you a troll there, didn't you... Congrats!
When we refer to "PCs" that's a term for a general purpose computer that can have any OS loaded, unrestricted applications and supports all common devices (keyboard, mouse, printer, scanner, monitor, video capture, webcams, pen drives, etc.).
Here's the main difference: PCs are designed do anything and everything.
Since when is the ability to run any OS a criterion for being a computer? By that definition, an IBM mainframe is not a computer.
And as far as being able to do 'anything and everything',
1) since my iPad can do many things a PC can't, does that mean only iPads are computers?
2) I can point right now to 10,000 granular apps that replace the functionality of general purpose spreadsheets, and do the job far better. Saying that pots aren't pots unless you throw and fire the clay yourself is essentially the argument that's being made here.
The argument about what is and isn't a 'computer' is essentially the digital priesthood crying in the night about their impending loss of power.
Again, show me a canonical definition of 'computer' that isn't more than just a self justifying opinion that takes the attributes of the device I support.
...Don't know if the "tablet" format is the most personal... Now, a "Suppository" format -- that'd be personal!
The problem is that many arguments disconnect the terms PC and personal computer. For many people, the iPad is all the personal computer that they need but it doesn't seem to fit the description of a PC. If this article is about personal computing then the iPad surely qualifies. As a Windows PC it doesn't - thankfully!
Classifying any (current)tablet as a computer with it's stripped down OS and reduced functionality is a travesty to the term Personal Computer.
Classification of the device is irrelevant to the point, which is whether the device is cannibalizing sales in the PC market. When people started buying cars instead of horses, it wasn't because they thought the car was a horse.
The real challenge with the "cannibalization" assertion is that there's not any particularly definitive research which shows whether tablets are being treated as supplementing or cannibalizing the PC market.
It's an "Apple Thing".
The RDF was often deployed by use of subtle redefinitions of words. It worked brilliantly.
But some people now try to show off by redefining words in silly ways, almost like a competition to see who can most twist a word while retaining some sort of specious plausibility. By doing so, mastery of the RDF technique is demonstrated. Those who can twist the furthest and thereby most solidly cement a shibboleth are the winners.
You wouldn't understand. It is an Apple Thing.
Interesting since
1) you didn't address the point at hand, and
2) your side is essentially committing the sin you accuse the other of. Redefining words.
Again... show me the definition of 'computer' that excludes the iPad. One that isn't pulled out of a convenient orifice.