So if I disagree with you and point out your contradictions..............then voila! i am a troll because you don't have a better arguement????
So, you are not prepared to counter my argument (go and read what I wrote) but submit the argument that you should be able say anything you like and have it accepted. My point was that it doesn't matter what is said, a troll continues with fallacious arguments regardless and claims immunity through the right to an opinion.
Well, I sold my MBP because I no longer used it. My 2010 iMac is just fine. But my iPad lets me do just about everything I need to do while I'm sitting in the La-Z-Boy watching (and controlling) my TV, or in the car, or on vacation. My bank has an iPad banking version (but CheckbookPro is still spinning its wheels.) When my power was out for 7+ days, it was my link to the outside world, recharging quickly for a whole day during my generator on-times at night.
Yes, the iPad IS a real computer, and time will only make it more powerful, especially as more and more common apps get on the iOS bandwagon.
How about, take it with me and follow my progress in reaching an unfamiliar destination. Not good enough? How about using it to control an unpiloted aerial vehicle simply by holding and moving it? No PC that I've seen can do either of those with the possible exception of a portable equipped with capability extending peripherals. Dare accepted, now go away!
lol, those are your examples? I used my laptop to drive to Florida like 10 years ago, there are many GPSs to choose from.
Control an airplane, how about a USB joystick or accelerometer, there are many to choose from. You mean tilt the PC itself, attach the accelerometer to it.
I never stated my definition of a personal computer.
But for the record, by my definition, a PC has most (but not always all) of the following characteristics:
- x86 architecture
- Modular hardware architecture
- High power consumption
- Designed for use with a desktop operating system
How would an ARM tablet running Windows 8 be classified,
What about a desktop computer running a "Desktop OS" (whatever that is) on 68xx architecture, PPC architecture or even ARM architecture... It's coming, you know
The concept behind the iPad is still the same as a typical "personal computer", the only difference is the form factors and that there is less emphasis on creation than a typical personal microcomputer. The reason why a lot of people will not be calling it a "PC" is because it is not a typical desktop or notebook machine.
The fact still remains that it is still a personal electronic computer, as its primary function is processing given input data that results in a given output. You would not consider a smart phone a personal computer because its primary function is as a telephone and communications device. Its all about what the device is designed to do as its primary function.
I can buy a Desktop "PC" and not make it a "PC" anymore by changing its primary function from a computing personal data to computing data requested over a network. Suddenly, I have a Server when by the logic of many people in these forums it should still be a personal computer. I'm guessing it'll be because of the form factor.
I can buy an iPod Touch (iPhone, iPad), JailBreak it and install Apache -- makes a pretty decent web server. Also iOS has all the 'Nix OS (Mac OS X) that the hardware can support including the OS X structure and file system -- and any of these devices ($200 and up) are more capable than the Windows PCs of 10 years ago... Hell, I paid $225 for a Windows XP upgrade to Windows NT.
Of course, the ONLY reason any of this discussion has any meaning is to see how the market breaks down, and how that changes over time- because that will dictate to corporations where the consumer is putting their money.
So in the end it's irrelevant if people think an iPad is a PC- If people are buying iPads as a PC replacement, then it's in the same general market because someone is spending money on one rather than the other. As would a smartphone if that's all the computer someone wants/needs.
But if it makes anyone feel any better we could break it down thusly:
OVERALL MARKET: COMPUTER
SUBMARKETS: HANDHELD COMPUTER [Phone or Smartphone], TABLET COMPUTER, PERSONAL COMPUTER (Laptop or Desktop)
Smartphones are computers, but it's only relevant to the PC market if someone is buying a iPhone INSTEAD of a PC. It's already been shown that tablets have been eating away at the fringes of the PC market, to those who's needs are satisfied by the device. So there's no question that the tablet market has some relevance to the PC market. And as tablets get thinner, lighter, more powerful, it's unquestionable that this is bound to happen more frequently.
My parents have a macMini. I'd wager that by the time it needs replacing in 3-4 years, I'll have a hard time finding a reason for them to not just buy an iPad instead.
You're still missing the point. If your point is that its not a 'personal' computer, then I question your definition of 'personal'. It doesn't get more 'personal' than an iPad.
If its about functionality, are you saying that if you can find one feature of a previous device that isn't carried forward into a subsequent incarnation, then all definitions stop at that point?
Most of the functionality of a 'personal computer' has become irrelevant to all but a small class of users.
The things that made the PC world-changing have ALL been brought forward into the iPad.
Again, defining 'self programability' as the defining feature of a PC is a self-serving definition, and that's the only differentiation I've heard anyone come up with yet.
Even the "self programability" argument is a losing one...
Using 11thIndian's defintion which I think is great, "A PC isn't defined as a device that allows you do to everything, it's a device that allows you to do everything you want to do." I suppose a smartphone or PMP might fit that build, but I doubt that many would consider it a replacement for a standard PC.
Where a user might have used a notebook for casual computing or have been tied to a desktop they are finding the iPad to fit the majority of their PC needs. I've even read about plenty of longtime notebook users going for a desktop for their purchase because the iPad suits their mobile needs sufficiently and in many ways better.
I can dig it but I think referring to an iPad as a personal computer is perfectly fine if not unnecessarily verbose.
As a PC in traditional terms, however, I don't see how it fits.
Definitions do change though...
My main point bringing that up is the claims that the argument that the iPad isn't a PC (traditional) was to somehow deflate the greatness that is Apple when the included argument was that if that is now included in the PC sector then so is the iPhone and iPod Touch (which would dramatically increase the size of Apple's PC division and not deflate it at all.
The argument isn't some ulterior motive...it's all semantic.
Oh really, most PCs?. I dare you to name a SINGLE thing an iPad can do that most PCs cannot. And not something stupid like "run iOS" or something iPad specific like Angry Birds. Because I can name hundreds of things a PC can do that an iPad can't.
Hold it up to the sky and get an augmented reality view of the cosmos?
Give me the yardage to #18 hole from the fairway with an aerial view of all of the bunkers along the way?
Click a picture of my kid at the beach and have it immediately viewed by the grandparents?
Solve a niche need for which I can find an immediate point solution on the app store instead of having to write up coded solution or buy overpriced, generalized software?
however both the iMac and the iPad are personal computers in the general sense.
Since tablets are suitable PC replacements for the non heavy user...correction, since the iPad is a suitable PC replacement...I understand it being included in the study...I guess...even though personally I feel it is a different market.
Hold it up to the sky and get an augmented reality view of the cosmos?
Give me the yardage to #18 hole from the fairway with an aerial view of all of the bunkers along the way?
Click a picture of my kid at the beach and have it immediately viewed by the grandparents?
Solve a niche need for which I can find an immediate point solution on the app store instead of having to write up coded solution or buy overpriced, generalized software?
You asked for 1. I can go on.
So the iPad is a different market...a new one, a better one technically...especially if/when these things can be docked at home to be used in more traditional PC ways.
While I have enjoyed reading this debate (and ConradJoe hasn't been trolling so stop throwing that word around for anyone with an argument that doesn't align with yours) I noticed one thing that seemed to be glossed over.
If the iPad is now in the PC category why isn't the iPhone?
Simple... the activities that an iPad is used for is a superset of the activities that most PCs are used for.
BTW, One form of trolling, is to muddy the water with inane and/or off-topic comments to try and hijack the thread... thinly-veiled insults or left-handed compliments (ala DED) are a form of this.
Comments
So if I disagree with you and point out your contradictions..............then voila! i am a troll because you don't have a better arguement????
So, you are not prepared to counter my argument (go and read what I wrote) but submit the argument that you should be able say anything you like and have it accepted. My point was that it doesn't matter what is said, a troll continues with fallacious arguments regardless and claims immunity through the right to an opinion.
Yes, the iPad IS a real computer, and time will only make it more powerful, especially as more and more common apps get on the iOS bandwagon.
"Largest seller of PCs in the world" is FALSE. Apple does not make PC therefore cannot be compare to PC makers like Dell, Sony, HP etc.
In the other this could be good for the consumer since PC price will keep dropping as Apple collect the PC market share.
Apple coined the name "Personal Computer" in 1977... long before the x86 architecture or IBM/PC ever existed.
Other microcomputers of the day uses 8080 or Z80 CPUs.
Here's a brochure from 1978:
How about, take it with me and follow my progress in reaching an unfamiliar destination. Not good enough? How about using it to control an unpiloted aerial vehicle simply by holding and moving it? No PC that I've seen can do either of those with the possible exception of a portable equipped with capability extending peripherals. Dare accepted, now go away!
lol, those are your examples? I used my laptop to drive to Florida like 10 years ago, there are many GPSs to choose from.
Control an airplane, how about a USB joystick or accelerometer, there are many to choose from. You mean tilt the PC itself, attach the accelerometer to it.
/FAIL
I never stated my definition of a personal computer.
But for the record, by my definition, a PC has most (but not always all) of the following characteristics:
- x86 architecture
- Modular hardware architecture
- High power consumption
- Designed for use with a desktop operating system
How would an ARM tablet running Windows 8 be classified,
What about a desktop computer running a "Desktop OS" (whatever that is) on 68xx architecture, PPC architecture or even ARM architecture... It's coming, you know
IMO, much of your definition defines baggage!
Butthurt people can pretend that iPads aren't computers, but most people don't pay any attention to what crazy people and Fandroids say.
The concept behind the iPad is still the same as a typical "personal computer", the only difference is the form factors and that there is less emphasis on creation than a typical personal microcomputer. The reason why a lot of people will not be calling it a "PC" is because it is not a typical desktop or notebook machine.
The fact still remains that it is still a personal electronic computer, as its primary function is processing given input data that results in a given output. You would not consider a smart phone a personal computer because its primary function is as a telephone and communications device. Its all about what the device is designed to do as its primary function.
I can buy a Desktop "PC" and not make it a "PC" anymore by changing its primary function from a computing personal data to computing data requested over a network. Suddenly, I have a Server when by the logic of many people in these forums it should still be a personal computer. I'm guessing it'll be because of the form factor.
I can buy an iPod Touch (iPhone, iPad), JailBreak it and install Apache -- makes a pretty decent web server. Also iOS has all the 'Nix OS (Mac OS X) that the hardware can support including the OS X structure and file system -- and any of these devices ($200 and up) are more capable than the Windows PCs of 10 years ago... Hell, I paid $225 for a Windows XP upgrade to Windows NT.
So now we define what is or is not a personal computer by your arbitrary definition. Get a life!
You are just plain rude.
You are just plain rude.
there is nothing wrong with being rude. Sometimes rude is precisely what's required.
Sent from my iPad (computer)
So in the end it's irrelevant if people think an iPad is a PC- If people are buying iPads as a PC replacement, then it's in the same general market because someone is spending money on one rather than the other. As would a smartphone if that's all the computer someone wants/needs.
But if it makes anyone feel any better we could break it down thusly:
OVERALL MARKET: COMPUTER
SUBMARKETS: HANDHELD COMPUTER [Phone or Smartphone], TABLET COMPUTER, PERSONAL COMPUTER (Laptop or Desktop)
Smartphones are computers, but it's only relevant to the PC market if someone is buying a iPhone INSTEAD of a PC. It's already been shown that tablets have been eating away at the fringes of the PC market, to those who's needs are satisfied by the device. So there's no question that the tablet market has some relevance to the PC market. And as tablets get thinner, lighter, more powerful, it's unquestionable that this is bound to happen more frequently.
My parents have a macMini. I'd wager that by the time it needs replacing in 3-4 years, I'll have a hard time finding a reason for them to not just buy an iPad instead.
Don't try to fool me with civility!!
You're still missing the point. If your point is that its not a 'personal' computer, then I question your definition of 'personal'. It doesn't get more 'personal' than an iPad.
If its about functionality, are you saying that if you can find one feature of a previous device that isn't carried forward into a subsequent incarnation, then all definitions stop at that point?
Most of the functionality of a 'personal computer' has become irrelevant to all but a small class of users.
The things that made the PC world-changing have ALL been brought forward into the iPad.
Again, defining 'self programability' as the defining feature of a PC is a self-serving definition, and that's the only differentiation I've heard anyone come up with yet.
Even the "self programability" argument is a losing one...
Codify lets you build iPad apps--on your iPad
Ahh... what makes a PC a PC... let me count the ways...
A Windows PC:
Wrong! Most PCs are in fact, less capable than the iPad, which is why the term PC will go away in respect of describing something useful.
You know, yours is the first argument that's actually persuaded me to stop advocating for "iPad as PC".
Well played, sir.
Using 11thIndian's defintion which I think is great, "A PC isn't defined as a device that allows you do to everything, it's a device that allows you to do everything you want to do." I suppose a smartphone or PMP might fit that build, but I doubt that many would consider it a replacement for a standard PC.
Where a user might have used a notebook for casual computing or have been tied to a desktop they are finding the iPad to fit the majority of their PC needs. I've even read about plenty of longtime notebook users going for a desktop for their purchase because the iPad suits their mobile needs sufficiently and in many ways better.
I can dig it but I think referring to an iPad as a personal computer is perfectly fine if not unnecessarily verbose.
As a PC in traditional terms, however, I don't see how it fits.
Definitions do change though...
My main point bringing that up is the claims that the argument that the iPad isn't a PC (traditional) was to somehow deflate the greatness that is Apple when the included argument was that if that is now included in the PC sector then so is the iPhone and iPod Touch (which would dramatically increase the size of Apple's PC division and not deflate it at all.
The argument isn't some ulterior motive...it's all semantic.
Oh really, most PCs?. I dare you to name a SINGLE thing an iPad can do that most PCs cannot. And not something stupid like "run iOS" or something iPad specific like Angry Birds. Because I can name hundreds of things a PC can do that an iPad can't.
Hold it up to the sky and get an augmented reality view of the cosmos?
Give me the yardage to #18 hole from the fairway with an aerial view of all of the bunkers along the way?
Click a picture of my kid at the beach and have it immediately viewed by the grandparents?
Solve a niche need for which I can find an immediate point solution on the app store instead of having to write up coded solution or buy overpriced, generalized software?
You asked for 1. I can go on.
I've always thought so. Because, well, it is.
I think the iMac is a PC.
however both the iMac and the iPad are personal computers in the general sense.
Since tablets are suitable PC replacements for the non heavy user...correction, since the iPad is a suitable PC replacement...I understand it being included in the study...I guess...even though personally I feel it is a different market.
Some people buy coupes instead of mini-vans.
Hold it up to the sky and get an augmented reality view of the cosmos?
Give me the yardage to #18 hole from the fairway with an aerial view of all of the bunkers along the way?
Click a picture of my kid at the beach and have it immediately viewed by the grandparents?
Solve a niche need for which I can find an immediate point solution on the app store instead of having to write up coded solution or buy overpriced, generalized software?
You asked for 1. I can go on.
So the iPad is a different market...a new one, a better one technically...especially if/when these things can be docked at home to be used in more traditional PC ways.
While I have enjoyed reading this debate (and ConradJoe hasn't been trolling so stop throwing that word around for anyone with an argument that doesn't align with yours) I noticed one thing that seemed to be glossed over.
If the iPad is now in the PC category why isn't the iPhone?
Simple... the activities that an iPad is used for is a superset of the activities that most PCs are used for.
BTW, One form of trolling, is to muddy the water with inane and/or off-topic comments to try and hijack the thread... thinly-veiled insults or left-handed compliments (ala DED) are a form of this.
The ipad is not a computer very simply:
Apple says it is for a "post-PC" world...
computer that is for post computer world? it the iPad a personal computer, well, not according to its creator at least...
Ahh... you don't understand Steve-Talk...
The iPad ushered in a post-[Windows]PC era.
Seriously, we now have a computing solution that is as good or better for most personal computing uses then a Windows PC or a Mac personal computer...
...the OS and the hardware doesn't get in the way between you and your stuff (computing needs).
1) Pick it up
2) Tap it's on in less than a second
3) Slide to unlock access to a world that contains, you, your stuff and all the capabilities (apps) you use
It is all right there in an instant, at your fingertips, wherever you are...
The fact that it is a very personal computer is incidental... it's just you... doing your thing... with your stuff!
You are just plain rude.
Problem is, he's right too.