Moderator Behaviors

123468

Comments

  • Reply 101 of 160
    gwmacgwmac Posts: 1,807member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    There's only been 7 deleted AFAIK. I think most if not all of those were because they replied to another poster who's quoted post was deleted. Leaving mine wouldn't make sense then to a casual reader. I'm not aware of any dumped for content and I guarantee none were deleted for personally attacking another member just to provoke them, referred to as trolling. That should give you some idea of how to behave as a forum member. 



     


    I have lost count at the number of my post deleted the last few months since I got on TS's radar for whatever reason. For the previous 6 years as a member I had never had any posts deleted and now suddenly that has changed. (I had a membership prior to that as well but lost the account due to some password issue and lost the email account so I created a new account) Gatorguy you and several other of the multi-thousand post crowd might have a very different take because you are on here very often. My opinion is that a forum needs to treat all members equally and fairly regardless whether they have been here for 7 years like me, have 15,000 posts, or just joined yesterday. There needs to be equality and fairness in moderation.


     


    And to TS, I have no idea if you are 20 or 80 years old and don't really care. A little about me since you seem to paint me as an Apple hater for some reason. I have never, and I mean never owned a computer not made by Apple. This goes back to 1982 with an Apple II. I have spent well over $40,000 in Apple kit over the years. I have 8 working Macs, 2 iPads, around 5 iPods, and an iPhone in my house as I type this.  I was a regular contributor to Xlr8yourmac.com  a friend to Mike Breeden and was also active in that forum which I miss dearly since that was such a knowledgeable group of guys and a great forum. I have met and spoken to both Steve Jobs (and his wife Laurene) and Steve Wozniak and many other senior level Apple execs. I told them the same types of complaints I express here on the forum but instead of acting as if I was committing blasphemy they listened and debated the issue with me in a jovial manner. I have also been an Apple seed developer and OS X beta tester since the very first version. Many of my ideas have made it into the final releases but I can not say any more than that. So I think I have earned the right to be here on this forum and offer an opinion. 


     


    Towing the company line with rose tinted glasses rarely leads to any improvements, challenging discourse, or new ideas. Steve Jobs understood this very well. Your heavy handed moderation is very anti-Apple. Personally I do not think you should continue as a moderator. Your personality is just not suited to the task. You have too many favorites here and cannot seem to be judicial and fair and step away from the fray. You would probably be far happier as a member instead. I  would certainly be far happier as well with you as just a member that I could block as I have done to your biggest ally who seems to share your mindset and views of right and blasphemy. You need to understand people can love Apple every bit as you without sharing your views and opinions. I really hope you will resign as a moderator if you really care about the well-being of this website at all or drastically reform your behavior  and stop targeting people that disagree with you and deleting their posts. 

  • Reply 102 of 160
    jfanningjfanning Posts: 3,398member
    I've been nice so far, and I rather think I'm still being comparatively nice with the following, but I'm going to have to ask you to step out of this.

    Please explain, after all I have experienced the same issue

    I really don't appreciate continually having fanciful claims brought against me when I have both repeatedly given evidence and testimony to prove that I'm not lying about what I say and also asked politely for it to stop. I realize this is your first instance in doing so (here), but you're piggybacking on the main discussion. Again, if you have any evidence of what you claim, that's fine. But you don't, see… 

    I questioned the deletional of valid, ontopic posts, that contained no personal insults, no "fanboy" comments, but they were still deleted, again, why? But reading the next comment you make, maybe we can see why, you manage to discredit yourself quite quickly
    I think it's doing people a favor to delete posts like this without banning them immediately (since then they don't discredit themselves), but I see exactly where that idea comes from.

    Who exactly are you doing this favor for?
  • Reply 103 of 160


    Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

    I have lost count at the number of my post deleted the last few months… 


     


    Five. All time.

  • Reply 104 of 160
    gwmacgwmac Posts: 1,807member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


     


    Five. All time.



    Fair enough, I really had no idea. It seemed like more but I believe you. But zero in six years and all of a sudden 5. I haven't posted anything recently that was substantially different from previous years. It also seems to me at least you target my posts to quote with snide and sarcastic replies. The only other person besides you that I have ever had a problem with is another prolific poster who for a long while I thought were the same person. You and that member usually trade 1 and 2 spots for daily post count. I blocked him so problem solved but I can't block you. All I can ask you to do is leave me alone. Stop quoting me with your flame bait and sarcasm and you and I will not have any more problems. In fact just stop quoting me at all. I really do not enjoy or gain anything from talking with you in threads.  Would also be nice if you stop deleting posts that other moderators would not delete. What is your post delete count vs. other mods? (not counting the spam type messages) Is it fair to say that you seem to delete far more, perhaps more than all the other mods combined of non-spam type posts? How long have you been a mod here because I really didn't know you existed prior to a year or so ago. I have been here since not long after the site began. I mostly remember Mel who btw you could learn a lot from on how to behave as a mod. 

  • Reply 105 of 160

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jfanning View Post





    Someone posted a message which consisted of "in the past it was no one got fired for buying ibm, now it is Apple", this message is now gone, can you think of a reason?



    I replied to this stating a fact that is was funny they mentioned IBM as NZ police have had problems with IBM in the past, again, this post is removed, can you think of a reason?


     


    The original post was mine, and as far as I can see TS hasn't yet given a reason here for deleting it, or your reply to it.

  • Reply 106 of 160


    And another post of mine that just suddenly disappeared:


     


     


     


     



     


    Tell me Dr Skil, what rule did this one break?

  • Reply 107 of 160


    Oh, FYI TS is deleting replies on this thread also.

  • Reply 108 of 160


    Please accept my apologies if this response is considered "off-topic", yet I felt it was appropriate given the "abuse of power" theme in this thread:


     


    My name is Indigo Jones.


     


    My boss, Matthew Howell, was banned from the Apple Insider website about 2 months ago for reasons that were never explained to him - as he recalls, he had only written two posts on the Apple Insider forums in the entirety of his membership: The first was in response to the gentleman you referenced above, Tallest Skil, where Matthew didn't realize that Tallest Skil was making a joke regarding a news article. The second was in response to an article about the Apple/Samsung lawsuit, where Matthew responded by stating, in Korean, that "Samsung's actions didn't seem very honorable". Matthew is a very busy individual and, as a result, doesn't always have time to follow up on responses to his infrequent postings. He was quite surprised, when he logged back in to Apple Insider about 2 months ago, to discover that his account had been banned from further use. Upon learning this he then wrote an inquiry, using the Apple Insider comment form, asking as to why his account had been banned from further use - as of yesterday afternoon, he still hasn't received a response.


     


    Since Matthew feels it would be inappropriate, as well as a TOS violation, for him to create another Apple Insider account I am posting this on his behalf.

  • Reply 109 of 160
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,355moderator
    msindigo wrote: »
    My boss, Matthew Howell, was banned from the Apple Insider website about 2 months ago for reasons that were never explained to him - as he recalls, he had only written two posts on the Apple Insider forums in the entirety of his membership: The first was in response to the gentleman you referenced above, Tallest Skil, where Matthew didn't realize that Tallest Skil was making a joke regarding a news article. The second was in response to an article about the Apple/Samsung lawsuit, where Matthew responded by stating, in Korean, that "Samsung's actions didn't seem very honorable". Matthew is a very busy individual and, as a result, doesn't always have time to follow up on responses to his infrequent postings. He was quite surprised, when he logged back in to Apple Insider about 2 months ago, to discover that his account had been banned from further use. Upon learning this he then wrote an inquiry, using the Apple Insider comment form, asking as to why his account had been banned from further use - as of yesterday afternoon, he still hasn't received a response.

    Yeah, there doesn't look like any reason for the first account to have been banned, there was just one post. The Korean post was made under a new username so TS probably assumed it was spam and it shows up as being linked to an account banned months before.

    I have restored the original account for Matthew.
  • Reply 110 of 160
    philboogiephilboogie Posts: 7,675member
    Not trying to 'suck up' here, but I think all moderators are doing a good job here at AI. And a positive post never hurts.
  • Reply 111 of 160


    Every forum has its' own style. I have/do post/ed on a $40K car forum for 10 years. Been banned 2 times, but the mods, after a bit, begin to know you are bsing and just having some fun. 


     


    With this post, I'm a newbie and probably a troll (we use douchebag on the other forum), but I wouldn't even post or visit here if I had really ill will for Apple. :twocents:

  • Reply 112 of 160
    gwmacgwmac Posts: 1,807member


    I have a suggestion, demote Tallest Skill to just a member. Allow him to keep a second  account as a mod but only for the sole purpose of removing spam. No more deleting posts or banning people willy nilly. Let him spar with people on equal footing without his magical ban hammer and you will see how people truly feel about him though I imagine that is already well known.  I imagine he has banned more members and deleted more posts than all of the rest of the mods here combined. I often go back and check a thread to see new replies and see mine and several others that dared challenge him or point out factual errors have been deleted for no reason. If he were just a regular member he would have long ago have been banned himself. Nearly all his posts are condescending, abusive,  and dismissive and because he has the "Mod" in his title many people feel bullied. Sad reflection that week after week your #1 commenter is a mod that seems to average 250 attacks a week. 


     


    He is probably the #1 reason your forums feel so unwelcoming and Alexa bears this out. He didn't accidentally delete that guys account, he did it intentionally like probably hundreds more you never hear about because they just get disgusted and go to other sites. What will it take for the rest of you mods to contact Neil and let him know what is going on and TS needs to be removed as a mod. There are plenty of very level headed and even tempered posters here that would do a far better job than TS. Feel free to like this post as a vote to show you agree. 


     


     



     


  • Reply 113 of 160
    philboogiephilboogie Posts: 7,675member
    Wow. That's a whole bunch of assumptions there. I wonder if a mod is going to read it to the end, let alone respond. I'm certainly sorry you feel this way. That's not good and doesn't bring you anything positive. Hope you'll find what you are looking for.
  • Reply 114 of 160
    gwmacgwmac Posts: 1,807member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post



    Wow. That's a whole bunch of assumptions there. I wonder if a mod is going to read it to the end, let alone respond. I'm certainly sorry you feel this way. That's not good and doesn't bring you anything positive. Hope you'll find what you are looking for.


    If I had not personally witnessed TS getting into heated altercations with numerous members here on a daily basis you would be right, but this is not a once in a while occurrence this is par for the course. Now I realize he alone is not the sole reason the other site gets more traffic, that I grant you was a stretch. But I am quite confident he has run off quite a few, how many I have no idea. But a website like this counts on traffic and why have a hostile mod bullying your customers. Imagine if an Apple store had a salesman that when asked a question by a customer was ridiculed or bullied because they felt it was a dumb question. I doubt they would buy a iPad. The same logic applies here. I have no problem at all with mods posting comments. Marvin, Mel and a few others are extremely knowledgeable and I enjoy their comments. Marvin for example gave a very wonderful explanation about delays in the Mac Pro recently by explaining Intel's Xeon roadmap. TS lack the ability to be dispassionate. He has his favorite members and members he doesn't like. He simply is not suited to moderate discussions because he only sees black or white and a mod must be able to see grey as well. He would be far happier as just a member. This would be in his best interest as well as ours but especially good for AI as a whole. 

  • Reply 115 of 160
    muppetrymuppetry Posts: 3,331member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by gwmac View Post




    Quote:

    Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post



    Wow. That's a whole bunch of assumptions there. I wonder if a mod is going to read it to the end, let alone respond. I'm certainly sorry you feel this way. That's not good and doesn't bring you anything positive. Hope you'll find what you are looking for.


    If I had not personally witnessed TS getting into heated altercations with numerous members here on a daily basis you would be right, but this is not a once in a while occurrence this is par for the course. Now I realize he alone is not the sole reason the other site gets more traffic, that I grant you was a stretch. But I am quite confident he has run off quite a few, how many I have no idea. But a website like this counts on traffic and why have a hostile mod bullying your customers. Imagine if an Apple store had a salesman that when asked a question by a customer was ridiculed or bullied because they felt it was a dumb question. I doubt they would buy a iPad. The same logic applies here. I have no problem at all with mods posting comments. Marvin, Mel and a few others are extremely knowledgeable and I enjoy their comments. Marvin for example gave a very wonderful explanation about delays in the Mac Pro recently by explaining Intel's Xeon roadmap. TS lack the ability to be dispassionate. He has his favorite members and members he doesn't like. He simply is not suited to moderate discussions because he only sees black or white and a mod must be able to see grey as well. He would be far happier as just a member. This would be in his best interest as well as ours but especially good for AI as a whole. 



     


    I think you are taking the whole moderator thing way too seriously. It's a discussion forum. It has posters who range from knowledgeable to borderline moronic, and from entirely sincere to obvious trolls. Even those assessments are very subjective. It also has a range of characters as moderators, who, as well as regular contributors, volunteer to spend a substantial amount of time cleaning the threads of spam and other undesirable stuff. And "undesirable", too, is subjective.


     


    There is no right way for a moderator to post and since, as you pointed out, TS would be fine as a regular poster, then his posts must be fine as a moderator. He gets impatient with certain types of posts that, mostly, deserve it. If he just sanctioned without interacting there would be far less noise about it, but since he also interacts it attracts the complaint that he sanctions those who disagree with him. I would suggest that, in fact, the converse is true - that he simply often disagrees with posters whom he sanctions, and that he engages first and unsuccessfully, sanctions second.


     


    Personally I find his posts to be mostly on topic, entertaining, knowledgeable and, occasionally, catastrophically wrong. 

  • Reply 116 of 160
    gwmacgwmac Posts: 1,807member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by muppetry View Post


     


    I think you are taking the whole moderator thing way too seriously. It's a discussion forum. It has posters who range from knowledgeable to borderline moronic, and from entirely sincere to obvious trolls. Even those assessments are very subjective. It also has a range of characters as moderators, who, as well as regular contributors, volunteer to spend a substantial amount of time cleaning the threads of spam and other undesirable stuff. And "undesirable", too, is subjective.


     


    There is no right way for a moderator to post and since, as you pointed out, TS would be fine as a regular poster, then his posts must be fine as a moderator. He gets impatient with certain types of posts that, mostly, deserve it. If he just sanctioned without interacting there would be far less noise about it, but since he also interacts it attracts the complaint that he sanctions those who disagree with him. I would suggest that, in fact, the converse is true - that he simply often disagrees with posters whom he sanctions, and that he engages first and unsuccessfully, sanctions second.


     


    Personally I find his posts to be mostly on topic, entertaining, knowledgeable and, occasionally, catastrophically wrong. 



    But if he were just another poster he would not have the ability to delete posts that prove him factually wrong as has happened many times before. Were he just a regular poster I also suspect he would tone down his vitriol.  I appreciate the fact that unpaid mods keep the forums clear of spam, but I think it is time for them to select a few more willing to take on that task more even keeled. His personality simply is not suited to be a moderator. As a regular poster we could  at least have the option to block him as I have done with a few of his allies. I can rarely make any post on any thread without him quoting and attacking my post and that is typically not what you hope to find from the behavior of a mod on any forum. He has an enemies list and apparently I made it for some unknown reason and I feel as if I am being stalked but lack the power to block him.  If AI conducted a poll to keep or fire TS as a mod what do you think the results would be?

  • Reply 117 of 160
    muppetrymuppetry Posts: 3,331member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by gwmac View Post




    Quote:

    Originally Posted by muppetry View Post


     


    I think you are taking the whole moderator thing way too seriously. It's a discussion forum. It has posters who range from knowledgeable to borderline moronic, and from entirely sincere to obvious trolls. Even those assessments are very subjective. It also has a range of characters as moderators, who, as well as regular contributors, volunteer to spend a substantial amount of time cleaning the threads of spam and other undesirable stuff. And "undesirable", too, is subjective.


     


    There is no right way for a moderator to post and since, as you pointed out, TS would be fine as a regular poster, then his posts must be fine as a moderator. He gets impatient with certain types of posts that, mostly, deserve it. If he just sanctioned without interacting there would be far less noise about it, but since he also interacts it attracts the complaint that he sanctions those who disagree with him. I would suggest that, in fact, the converse is true - that he simply often disagrees with posters whom he sanctions, and that he engages first and unsuccessfully, sanctions second.


     


    Personally I find his posts to be mostly on topic, entertaining, knowledgeable and, occasionally, catastrophically wrong. 



    But if he were just another poster he would not have the ability to delete posts that prove him factually wrong as has happened many times before. Were he just a regular poster I also suspect he would tone down his vitriol.  I appreciate the fact that unpaid mods keep the forums clear of spam, but I think it is time for them to select a few more willing to take on that task more even keeled. His personality simply is not suited to be a moderator. As a regular poster we could  at least have the option to block him as I have done with a few of his allies. I can rarely make any post on any thread without him quoting and attacking my post and that is typically not what you hope to find from the behavior of a mod on any forum. He has an enemies list and apparently I made it for some unknown reason and I feel as if I am being stalked but lack the power to block him.  If AI conducted a poll to keep or fire TS as a mod what do you think the results would be?



     


    Perhaps if you just stuck to posting rather than continually complaining about him things might change. I've no idea what such a poll might produce. I'd vote keep though. But seriously, if all you have to worry about is being "stalked" on a forum then life must be good.

  • Reply 118 of 160
    philboogiephilboogie Posts: 7,675member
    I thumb up posts from the both of you, [B]gwmac[/B] & [B]muppetry[/B]. With some reservations, but I don't have the time to reply; I have a hard time keeping up with all the articles and user responses as it is.
  • Reply 119 of 160
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member


    Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

    No more deleting posts or banning people willy nilly.


     


    Well, as it doesn't happen now…






    Let him spar with people on equal footing without his magical ban hammer and you will see how people truly feel about him though I imagine that is already well known.



     


    I forget how many times I've told you that anyone's welcome to insult me because I, as a mod, wish to remain part of the discussion.




    You've never cared, so I won't bother recounting.






    I often go back and check a thread to see new replies and see mine and several others that dared challenge him or point out factual errors have been deleted for no reason. 



     


    Would you happen to have even one example of that? 


     


    You have a vendetta against me. You constantly whine about it, creating falsehoods based on zero information. Get over it. Please!





    He didn't accidentally delete that guys account, he did it intentionally…



     


    For what magical purpose? I directly replied to the post made by said account. Your entire theory is abject nonsense.


     


    If I was as you said, I would have simply deleted the post instead of replying to it.


     


    Explain: If I am as you say, why are there any anti-Apple posts on the website?


    Explain: If I am as you say, why are vehemently anti-Apple users such as MacRulez, Gatorguy, DaHarder, and stike vomit not banned?


    Explain: If I am as you say, why are YOU not banned and ALL of YOUR posts whining about how bad I am not stricken from public record?


     


    I demand explanations at this point. Yes, you may say to me whatever you wish, but do not say of me and expect it to go unchallenged if wrong.





    Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

    …apparently I made it for some unknown reason…


     


    Couldn't have been all the lies and false accusations. image


     


    And no, that reply is not your magical "proof" of an "enemies list".






    …I feel as if I am being stalked…



     


    You sure you're not just an empath, echoing the feelings of, oh, say, me?

  • Reply 120 of 160

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post



    Not trying to 'suck up' here, but I think all moderators are doing a good job here at AI. And a positive post never hurts.


     


    Ben je gek? TS is een kutmoderator.

Sign In or Register to comment.