You as a person owe 140k dollars in US debt, where the average Greek only owes 35k. Note that before the Greek government went honest about said debt, it ballooned from 13k. You never signed for this debt, and neither did they. If the US government went honest about their debt and the unbelievable financial system that enables it, the world economy would implode, by the way...
People are accountable and responsible for their choices, that's true. Let's try a solution: give every greek a choice between renouncing their citizenship, getting the US citizenship, the value of what they worked for in life in US dollars, and a free move to the US, or accepting the austerity measures that "might" save their economy. Let's see what they "choose".
Some interesting points, however part of that enormous US debt also includes money loaned to Greece. Germany is, of course, the biggest lender.
Why not? Let the banks fail in 2008 and you get everything that is happening now, but happening then. I imagine there would be at least SOME recovery from a real collapse after 7 years, unlike what has happened now.
Keep your delusional propaganda to yourself, please. Socialism only “works” when someone else is footing the bill.
Socialism works pretty well when it's not messed with by liberals, industrialist, Randians, and free capitalists.
The real problem is not socialism versus capitalism, it's the lack of accountability of lesson-givers and high-flyers.
Why are the people that enabled Greece's issues not prosecuted, including politicians of France and Germany, US bankers, Greek politicians , etc? Why aren't the people who knowingly made money out of these loans, including US and European industrialists, forced to pay back their "hard earned" gains? After all, if you make money reselling stolen goods, you are made to give it back (whether or not you knew, actually).
This is all a financial/political religion system dispute, in truth. People refuse to see the numbers, and most definitely refuse to accept that things are sufficiently complex that there is no silver bullet to fix it, that efforts would have to be made on every side, and that, indeed, we will all have to pay a bit to avoid paying a lot.
Also, even if we end up pushing back retirement age further and further, turning every damn state service into a private industry moneymaker (assuming the religious belief that this gives a cheaper and better service, which has never been proven), as long as the financial system underlying our economies isn't reformed, crises will come up again.
Some interesting points, however part of that enormous US debt also includes money loaned to Greece. Germany is, of course, the biggest lender.
Yes, I totally concur with your argument here. The complexities of our financial system, our commercial interconnected systems, the industrial and services global economy (or economies...), the ridiculously large "black" economy both in Greece and "healthy (I doubt that)" countries, the elections systems in modern democracies, and all the side effects from these separately complex systems interacting makes the problem as much of a Greek problem as a German or US problem.
Fact: the old man whose picture went global after he couldn't get his pension money spent most of his career in Germany, making the powerful German economy we all hear about what it is, along with millions of Greeks and Turks.
We live in an outdated "country" based system, but our economies and lives are much further along...
Myself, as a person, I've spent the last 5 years working in Holland. I shudder to think of the administrative issues related to moving back to my home country, finding a new job there, new health insurance, getting both retirement systems to work together... and these are both EU countries. My friends who worked in Germany, Holland, Italy all have the same issue, not to mention the ones who thought London or New York were great career moves.
Our careers, from the "lowliest" Greek mechanic who worked years in Germany to the "highest" financial analyst who hopped from ING, Rotterdam to Barclay's, London to New York's hot-and-fizzy funds, are now by nature global, but our life systems aren't. This is part of the issue, too.
[quote]Greek users with month-to-month online payment commitments have little recourse but to whether the storm.[/quote] Sorry, I'm in a pedantic mood as a result of too much sun. I can't resist this typo. They've got to whether the storm? Whether they weather it or not, that is the question. ...and back to the economics discussion...
The subject was (war reparations and) loans after World War II, not every single country which played a part in the Allied nations.
hmmm you changed your post. Why not just respond to my last post? You made two separate statements in the original post. 1. Greece was not part of the allied nations 2. Reparations issue was closed in 1990.
bogus because other socialist nations are fine. socialism isn't the bad word you've been taught to think it is.
Thank you for that picture of socialism as it exists in your imagination, now here is socialism in reality. Every policy the socialists advocate: more pensions, sure. More healthcare, sure. Shorter work hours? Sure. Every policy socialists advocate they did.
I believe it's possible to have social programs for the needy. For the small percentage of people that are born disabled for example. As long as it is a small percentage of the population it can mathematically work. But as soon as you start talking about universal this and universal that, the numbers just don't add up. The only way to fund it then is deficit spending, and that eventually results in a Greece like outcome.
Where's your compassion? There are thousands of hard working shop owners, people who work at hospitals saving lives, etc... These people are willing to work their asses off and they are in trouble. No more products coming in from abroad, no more customers, no way to withdraw cash to live.
Money for Greece didn't go to these people, it was meant for banks. These corrupt money printing piece of shit institutes we all had to save and f*cked us in the ass. Institutes who now don't give us a mortgage.
Banks are the ones who you should point your fingers at. Not the people of Greece.
Greece was added to the Euro region too fast, without a thorough due diligence.
The fact is in this story, Apple is making a commercial decision - they want people in Greece to keep using, and relying on, their services. They cannot currently collect payments for the services, so they have said they will wait 30 days. They aren't actually giving 30 days of free service, despite the headline, they are just being billed 30 days later. This type of story shouldn't generate the level of hate from people that it has.
And the comments from others regarding the 85% not paying taxes - this is complete nonsense. If journalists actually did basic research, then they would understand this.
P.S. I note the article has <span style="line-height:1.4em;">quietly been updated to reflect what I wrote earlier. Does AI not have editorial </span>
policies<span style="line-height:1.4em;"> to make changes clear to their readers? </span>
Maybe, wdowell — but some do better and earlier. You are hitting the wrong person, since the author of this article happens to be a very well educated and friendly guy.
Being informed about this issue, only minutes after publication, this mistake had been corrected by AI swiftly. This is a much better response time and procedure than with the BBC or leading German online news from tagesschau.de for example.
In this complicated situation, it is not very helpful for international news corporations that the Greek NAI actually (unortunately ;-) means YES. There was a political reason for the current Greek government to start the referendum with an hopefully OXI-answered question right at the start.
Let's hope that the Greek people know what they are doing… YES, please give us more NOs!
At first, I was not sure about this rather political article either. At least, it has a relation to an Apple product or service. But more important for me was to notice again that at AI quite a bunch of intelligent people happen to be around.
This is no coincidence, but the result of a carefully produced Apple related media outlet — and a lot of work. Mistakes can happen, but to me it is utmost important whether my hints are respectfully handled or not. This has always been true in the past and I am looking forward to read on AI in the future because of this professional attitude.
In a highly competative environment, I can understand that some media choose not to inform readers about changing content. Even more so, if it is meant to correct earlier mistakes and to give new readers the chance to read the correct version of the article.
I would have found it much more disturbing if they had deleted your remark ;-)
Socialism works pretty well when it's not messed with by liberals, industrialist, Randians, and free capitalists.
So as long as no humans of any political inclination are allowed to involve themselves in any way, socialism works pretty well.
I think that’s the best description of the process that I’ve ever seen.
This is all a financial/political religion system dispute, in truth. People refuse to see the numbers, and most definitely refuse to accept that things are sufficiently complex that there is no silver bullet to fix it, that efforts would have to be made on every side, and that, indeed, we will all have to pay a bit to avoid paying a lot.
You want a silver bullet? Okay: destroy fiat currency and return to a currency backed by, well, silver.
Sweden is the top performer in environmental quality, and it ranks above the average in civic engagement, education and skills, work-life balance, health status, subjective well-being, jobs and earnings, housing, and social connections.
Money, while it cannot buy happiness, is an important means to achieving higher living standards. In Sweden, the average household net-adjusted disposable income per capita is USD 29 185 a year, more than the OECD average of USD 25 908 a year.
In general, Swedes are more satisfied with their lives than the OECD average. When asked to rate their general satisfaction with life on a scale from 0 to 10, Swedes gave ita 7.2 grade higher than the OECD average of 6.6.
<p style="color:rgb(70,70,70);margin-bottom:10px;">Sweden is the top performer in environmental quality, and it ranks above the average in civic engagement, education and skills, work-life balance, health status, subjective well-being, jobs and earnings, housing, and social connections.</p>
<p style="color:rgb(70,70,70);margin-bottom:10px;">Money, while it cannot buy happiness, is an important means to achieving higher living standards. In Sweden, the average household net-adjusted disposable income per capita is USD 29 185 a year, more than the OECD average of USD 25 908 a year.</p>
<p style="color:rgb(70,70,70);margin-bottom:10px;">In general, Swedes are more satisfied with their lives than the OECD average. When asked to rate their general satisfaction with life on a scale from 0 to 10, Swedes gave ita 7.2 grade higher than the OECD average of 6.6.</p>
Comments
Some interesting points, however part of that enormous US debt also includes money loaned to Greece. Germany is, of course, the biggest lender.
Why not? Let the banks fail in 2008 and you get everything that is happening now, but happening then. I imagine there would be at least SOME recovery from a real collapse after 7 years, unlike what has happened now.
Keep your delusional propaganda to yourself, please. Socialism only “works” when someone else is footing the bill.
Socialism works pretty well when it's not messed with by liberals, industrialist, Randians, and free capitalists.
The real problem is not socialism versus capitalism, it's the lack of accountability of lesson-givers and high-flyers.
Why are the people that enabled Greece's issues not prosecuted, including politicians of France and Germany, US bankers, Greek politicians , etc? Why aren't the people who knowingly made money out of these loans, including US and European industrialists, forced to pay back their "hard earned" gains? After all, if you make money reselling stolen goods, you are made to give it back (whether or not you knew, actually).
This is all a financial/political religion system dispute, in truth. People refuse to see the numbers, and most definitely refuse to accept that things are sufficiently complex that there is no silver bullet to fix it, that efforts would have to be made on every side, and that, indeed, we will all have to pay a bit to avoid paying a lot.
Also, even if we end up pushing back retirement age further and further, turning every damn state service into a private industry moneymaker (assuming the religious belief that this gives a cheaper and better service, which has never been proven), as long as the financial system underlying our economies isn't reformed, crises will come up again.
Some interesting points, however part of that enormous US debt also includes money loaned to Greece. Germany is, of course, the biggest lender.
Yes, I totally concur with your argument here. The complexities of our financial system, our commercial interconnected systems, the industrial and services global economy (or economies...), the ridiculously large "black" economy both in Greece and "healthy (I doubt that)" countries, the elections systems in modern democracies, and all the side effects from these separately complex systems interacting makes the problem as much of a Greek problem as a German or US problem.
Fact: the old man whose picture went global after he couldn't get his pension money spent most of his career in Germany, making the powerful German economy we all hear about what it is, along with millions of Greeks and Turks.
We live in an outdated "country" based system, but our economies and lives are much further along...
Myself, as a person, I've spent the last 5 years working in Holland. I shudder to think of the administrative issues related to moving back to my home country, finding a new job there, new health insurance, getting both retirement systems to work together... and these are both EU countries. My friends who worked in Germany, Holland, Italy all have the same issue, not to mention the ones who thought London or New York were great career moves.
Our careers, from the "lowliest" Greek mechanic who worked years in Germany to the "highest" financial analyst who hopped from ING, Rotterdam to Barclay's, London to New York's hot-and-fizzy funds, are now by nature global, but our life systems aren't. This is part of the issue, too.
Greece was not part of the Allied nations
Are you sure about that?
Allied nations were the U.S., Great Britain, France, and Soviet Union.
Sorry, I'm in a pedantic mood as a result of too much sun. I can't resist this typo. They've got to whether the storm? Whether they weather it or not, that is the question.
...and back to the economics discussion...
Allied nations were the U.S., Great Britain, France, and Soviet Union.
Please, look it up.
The subject was (war reparations and) loans after World War II, not every single country which played a part in the Allied nations.
Where did you learn your history?
Those countries were the main powers of the Allied nations but not the only nations that made up the allied forces.
The subject was (war reparations and) loans after World War II, not every single country which played a part in the Allied nations.
hmmm you changed your post. Why not just respond to my last post? You made two separate statements in the original post. 1. Greece was not part of the allied nations 2. Reparations issue was closed in 1990.
bogus because other socialist nations are fine. socialism isn't the bad word you've been taught to think it is.
Thank you for that picture of socialism as it exists in your imagination, now here is socialism in reality. Every policy the socialists advocate: more pensions, sure. More healthcare, sure. Shorter work hours? Sure. Every policy socialists advocate they did.
I believe it's possible to have social programs for the needy. For the small percentage of people that are born disabled for example. As long as it is a small percentage of the population it can mathematically work. But as soon as you start talking about universal this and universal that, the numbers just don't add up. The only way to fund it then is deficit spending, and that eventually results in a Greece like outcome.
A logical move; yes. But from the moment I heard of what Apple did, I thought if also a class act!
If I were a Greek citizen, this lone act of compassion at a time of crisis, may be long remembered.
Have you ever even left your county, let alone your state?
Cuz the actual world looks a little different from what you seem to think.
Jesus! Just read those comments.
Where's your compassion? There are thousands of hard working shop owners, people who work at hospitals saving lives, etc... These people are willing to work their asses off and they are in trouble. No more products coming in from abroad, no more customers, no way to withdraw cash to live.
Money for Greece didn't go to these people, it was meant for banks. These corrupt money printing piece of shit institutes we all had to save and f*cked us in the ass. Institutes who now don't give us a mortgage.
Banks are the ones who you should point your fingers at. Not the people of Greece.
Greece was added to the Euro region too fast, without a thorough due diligence.
http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/7/1/greek-bailout-money-went-to-banks-not-greece.html
The fact is in this story, Apple is making a commercial decision - they want people in Greece to keep using, and relying on, their services. They cannot currently collect payments for the services, so they have said they will wait 30 days. They aren't actually giving 30 days of free service, despite the headline, they are just being billed 30 days later. This type of story shouldn't generate the level of hate from people that it has.
And the comments from others regarding the 85% not paying taxes - this is complete nonsense. If journalists actually did basic research, then they would understand this.
Maybe, wdowell — but some do better and earlier. You are hitting the wrong person, since the author of this article happens to be a very well educated and friendly guy.
Being informed about this issue, only minutes after publication, this mistake had been corrected by AI swiftly. This is a much better response time and procedure than with the BBC or leading German online news from tagesschau.de for example.
In this complicated situation, it is not very helpful for international news corporations that the Greek NAI actually (unortunately ;-) means YES. There was a political reason for the current Greek government to start the referendum with an hopefully OXI-answered question right at the start.
Let's hope that the Greek people know what they are doing… YES, please give us more NOs!
At first, I was not sure about this rather political article either. At least, it has a relation to an Apple product or service. But more important for me was to notice again that at AI quite a bunch of intelligent people happen to be around.
This is no coincidence, but the result of a carefully produced Apple related media outlet — and a lot of work. Mistakes can happen, but to me it is utmost important whether my hints are respectfully handled or not. This has always been true in the past and I am looking forward to read on AI in the future because of this professional attitude.
In a highly competative environment, I can understand that some media choose not to inform readers about changing content. Even more so, if it is meant to correct earlier mistakes and to give new readers the chance to read the correct version of the article.
I would have found it much more disturbing if they had deleted your remark ;-)
So as long as no humans of any political inclination are allowed to involve themselves in any way, socialism works pretty well.
I think that’s the best description of the process that I’ve ever seen.
This is all a financial/political religion system dispute, in truth. People refuse to see the numbers, and most definitely refuse to accept that things are sufficiently complex that there is no silver bullet to fix it, that efforts would have to be made on every side, and that, indeed, we will all have to pay a bit to avoid paying a lot.
You want a silver bullet? Okay: destroy fiat currency and return to a currency backed by, well, silver.
Also rates higher than every country on Earth
Swedish rates:
Sweden is the top performer in environmental quality, and it ranks above the average in civic engagement, education and skills, work-life balance, health status, subjective well-being, jobs and earnings, housing, and social connections.
Money, while it cannot buy happiness, is an important means to achieving higher living standards. In Sweden, the average household net-adjusted disposable income per capita is USD 29 185 a year, more than the OECD average of USD 25 908 a year.
In general, Swedes are more satisfied with their lives than the OECD average. When asked to rate their general satisfaction with life on a scale from 0 to 10, Swedes gave it a 7.2 grade higher than the OECD average of 6.6.
I've lived in in a socialist country. It stinks.
A child is satisfied with a simple toy, yet achieves little. Remind me which country landed on the moon again?
My goodness, someone giving them a few dollars of cloud storage is such compassion, you're so right.
I'm trying not to vomit from the spin here.