Review: macOS Catalina 10.15 is what Apple promised the Mac could be, and is a crucial upg...

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  • Reply 81 of 168
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,104member
    Unfortunately there are a few apps critical to my job that are still (and permanently) 32 bit. I’ll do a partition and keep my old stuff around for when I need it.
    Run it in a Parallels VM. 
    dewmeStrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 82 of 168
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member

    ylon said:
    …There's no actual reason to switch to 64bit fully from a technical standpoint (it's actually more optimized and efficient when you use 32bit apps. Period.). I can elucidate a lot more on these points, but to see Catalina spoken of so highly has completely obliterated my belief that AppleInsider can become anything more than lipstick for Apple now.


    This isn’t true actually.   In the overall scheme of things most users are better off with a 64 bit clean system.   Using strictly 32 era instructions will actually lead to far slower code for many cases.  The biggest problem though is in the maintenance of that old software which is the exact opposite of efficiency and a wise use of ones time.   Yes even Apple needs to use developer time wisely.  

    While I think this article is a total disgrace for AI, I really can’t support your misguided love of 32 bit software.   Most people these days realize that supporting Apple 2 software is foolhardy, it’s time has passed.    So too has time passed for 32 bit software, often ancient and unsupported, this stuff is like dragging a boat anchor through sand.  It slows you down but beyond that really does nothing useful.  
    dewme
  • Reply 83 of 168
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 2,581member
    ElCapitan said:
    ElCapitan said:

    elijahg said:
    Bloody hell is DED trying to break the world record on longest article? Catalina really doesn’t add enough for what’s taken away for me, namely 32 bit application support. Seems a bit ridiculous to eliminated 32 bit support entirely. 32 bit apps can be sandboxed for security and 32 bit libraries can stay linked but unloaded until they’re required, so the extra RAM usage and security is a non-issue. 
    Christ, they’ve deprecated and announced the planned end of life for 32-bit apps years ago, and yet people are still gonna get butthurt and whine about it when it finally happens. 

    No man, it’s not ridiculous. It streamlines the OS, the future processors, and is the direction the future is moving. Move past the denial stage and accept it. 
    Let the migration to other platforms begin.  Am in the process of moving a lot of solutions that ran brilliantly on Apple kit to Linux as it is no longer viable for macOS. 
    Awesome. Guess that means we won’t have the constant butthurt to look forward to in the near future? Have fun playing the drivers game on Linux, the bastion of easy computing...lol
    You sound as idiotic as always. Get yourself pulled out of the Apple Stockholm syndrome you're locked into. 
    Having 30 years of NeXT/Apple OS X and 20 years of Linux the ABI broken model that is Linux is one of the most crippling aspects of the platform, never mind the UX which has taken basically everything Apple HIG develops and slowly adopted it within GNOME. KDE is a swiss cheese approach to everything is modifiable and slow as molasses on the desktop.

    Linux has focused primarily on the server space in order to stay feasible and it came with billions invested by IBM, Oracle, RedHat [now owned by IBM], Cisco, Qualcomm, Google, etc.

    After nearly 30 years of development it is still a constantly broken [it's our philosophy update often] platform. It is the reason the Long Term versions of a few select distributions have been picked and supported by AMD, Intel, ARM, IBM, etc. With roughly 3 major kernel releases per year the typical Professional Linux distribution is 2 to 3 years old.

    Apple will never port their Frameworks to third parties. I recall being interviewed by Real Networks and ultimately finding out they hoped I would give them a shortcut into Apple's plans for QuickTime as they wanted to buy it. Real Networks never was too bright.

    During the early merger days I'll never forget the shit storm when Linus arrived at Apple Engineering and overreached his importance when he was interviewed to become a member of the Kernel team.

    He wasn't the only person in the industry who has interviewed over the years with Apple to be irritated that he really wasn't going to have the same ``influence'' he did before interviewing. I guess people really don't research Apple before interviewing because when you arrive you discover it's a hive of the top minds the world has to offer. Back on topic.

    32 bit deprecation and Linux


    Linux is deprecating and nearly completely deprecated 32 bit apps itself. Debian, Ubuntu and RedHat have all deprecated them. When Debian says goodbye very soon that will include Ubuntu and many other ``Debian derived distributions'' who survive solely because of the hard work by the talented folks that make Debian continue to sustain itself.

    Steam will soon move to 64 bit only. That should end the whining on 32 bit. Adobe dumped 32 bit quite a while ago. Hell, they dropped it in Photoshop back in 2012. Move on or become obsolete.
    "I guess people really don't research Apple before interviewing because when you arrive you discover it's a hive of the top minds the world has to offer."

    I know you're not at Apple anymore but would you still agree that that's still the case?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 84 of 168
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    sflocal said:
    ylon said:
    This article disturbs me greatly. I've felt that AppleInsider is just not leveling with its readers for the last several years now. It has some fun and feel good articles, but this stuff about Catalina is a load of bullcrap. This OS release is the next solid step to the end of Apple and no one has the courage to stand up and talk about this. Do you realize how many of us our MOURNING this release of the OS and are carefully looking at Linux options at the moment (I know several colleagues who've actually "switched" again now). 

    Now granted, Linux can't fit the bill for any of us who need to do anything more than certain dedicated tasks that it's good at, but frankly the core OS has been suffering in macOS for many years now (and this is coming from both Apple engineers themselves and others who do low level system development).

    Apple is prepping us for a complete lockdown and I'll be darned if you find me fighting to jailbreak my workstation. I need low level kexts, I need better debugging facilities, I need kernel access and I frankly need to retain 32bit functionality. There's no actual reason to switch to 64bit fully from a technical standpoint (it's actually more optimized and efficient when you use 32bit apps. Period.). I can elucidate a lot more on these points, but to see Catalina spoken of so highly has completely obliterated my belief that AppleInsider can become anything more than lipstick for Apple now.
    Great... another one of these whackjobs.

    Your manifesto disturbs me (us) greatly.  How many people in the past couple decades have preached Linux eventually replacing the conventional Windows desktop?  I lost count.  Do you know?  I use Linux, even have Ubuntu as a VM on my Mac.  While it's fine for the server, it's complete crap for the desktop and has never been prime-time for the majority of computer users.  It's a curiosity at best for many and it has way too many usability problems that most non-tech people will never figure out.  Give it a rest.  That horse got beaten way too long ago.

    Please.. PLEASE get off your Apple-is-doomed soapbox and ride into the Linux sunset.  I promise you... we won't hope you'd look back.  Hurry... the sun sets in a few more hours.  

    Jeez... 
    I recently (well about a year and a half ago) switched to Linux completely on a laptop, bleeding edge hardware at that.  I did so because Windows sucked.   What Got me onto this hardware wasn’t Linux being better than MacOS but rather far cheaper hardware being far better than the crap that Apple has been offering over the last few years.   In the end poor hardware with the corresponding very poor Apple service had me discovering just how far Apples hardware has declined.  

    The interesting thing here is that we see exactly the same discussions in the Linux forums about 32 but software.   Practically word for word if you swap a few nouns.    Frankly I’m not sure what is wrong with the people whining, in the end they are only dragging development down.   It is an incredible waste to try to maintain an entire operating system within another.    Why people don’t understand this is beyond me.  
  • Reply 85 of 168
    crowley said:
    crowley said:
    Not sure which part was supposed to be crucial?

    I may install it on a partition when I have some time to kill, but ditching 32-bit apps... that's a tough pill to build up to, it'll take a while.
    What 32 bit apps do you use? 
    Games mainly, most of which will never be updated https://www.macgamerhq.com/opinion/32-bit-mac-games/
    OK so what? Make a 1 TB external boot disk with Mojave and move all your games on it.
    dewmewatto_cobra
  • Reply 86 of 168
    woodbine said:

    elijahg said:
    Bloody hell is DED trying to break the world record on longest article? Catalina really doesn’t add enough for what’s taken away for me, namely 32 bit application support. Seems a bit ridiculous to eliminated 32 bit support entirely. 32 bit apps can be sandboxed for security and 32 bit libraries can stay linked but unloaded until they’re required, so the extra RAM usage and security is a non-issue. 
    Christ, they’ve deprecated and announced the planned end of life for 32-bit apps years ago, and yet people are still gonna get butthurt and whine about it when it finally happens. 

    No man, it’s not ridiculous. It streamlines the OS, the future processors, and is the direction the future is moving. Move past the denial stage and accept it. 
    QT7 I will really miss. The ability to quickly chop up a video is priceless....and no I don't want to learn iMovie.
    QT Player X already does that, you don't need to learn iMovie.
  • Reply 87 of 168
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 5,962member
    wizard69 said:
    I recently (well about a year and a half ago) switched to Linux completely on a laptop, bleeding edge hardware at that.  I did so because Windows sucked.   What Got me onto this hardware wasn’t Linux being better than MacOS but rather far cheaper hardware being far better than the crap that Apple has been offering over the last few years.   In the end poor hardware with the corresponding very poor Apple service had me discovering just how far Apples hardware has declined.  

    The interesting thing here is that we see exactly the same discussions in the Linux forums about 32 but software.   Practically word for word if you swap a few nouns.    Frankly I’m not sure what is wrong with the people whining, in the end they are only dragging development down.   It is an incredible waste to try to maintain an entire operating system within another.    Why people don’t understand this is beyond me.  
    We're a world apart on this.  I use Linux for many reasons, all technical.  It's fine for the technically savvy, not for everyday people.  In the end, I always enjoy going back to macOS and the best-in-class (IMHO) hardware.  Sure, Linux runs on cheap hardware.  Can't argue it, but one does get what they pay for.  I would never have my mother using a cheap machine running Linux.  

    A good thing with Windows is that it runs old programs.  A big problem with Windows is that it runs old programs.  That code-bloat I would have to think is a bear to maintain.
    macplusplusdewmewatto_cobra
  • Reply 88 of 168
    p-dogp-dog Posts: 117member
    But...but...but...what about my 16 bit apps and games?!?! Now I’ll be forced to migrate back to the last millennium!
    StrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 89 of 168
    dewmedewme Posts: 4,253member
    Wow, I’ve been eager to see some in-depth articles that give a hands-on review of the major new features in Catalina. This article is extremely comprehensive and leaves no nuance, no matter how subtle, undiscovered. What I generally do with these full figured articles is to create a PDF of the article from Reader View in Safari and save it in iBooks as a book. I may not read it entirely from within the Apple Insider forum but I will eventually read it all as a book because I appreciate the time, effort, and commitment that went into creating it. It may be a bit heavy compared to the average article size we’re used to seeing on AI, but it’s still very relevant, well written, and informative even if it has to be consumed in bite sized chunks. Thank you DED.
    lkruppStrangeDaysmatrix077cat52Dan_Dilgerwatto_cobra
  • Reply 90 of 168
    digitoldigitol Posts: 268member
    Catilina is JAIL. enjoy.
  • Reply 91 of 168
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 2,068member
    Another new aspect of gaming that Apple has addressed in both iOS 13 and Catalina is support for popular Bluetooth gaming controllers. In addition to existing MFi controllers, Apple has also expanded controller support to Sony's PlayStation DualShock 4 and Microsoft's Xbox Wireless Controllers with Bluetooth. This enables Mac, Apple TV, iPhone, and iPad players to dive into more complex and sophisticated gaming titles from the App Store and through the new Arcade.
    DED: Do you still predict a new Apple TV and/or gaming machine. I ask because I need something like the apple TV but can't stand the remote but have held off from buying Fire Cube or Roku.


  • Reply 92 of 168
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,104member
    digitol said:
    Catilina is JAIL. enjoy.
    Wut. 
    StrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 93 of 168
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,072member
    wizard69 said:
    this is a novel not a blog post. woulda been better served split into a few articles. 


    64 bit all the way. forward! some will whine some will call the whaaambulance! 
    Apparently my first comment about the article length got deleted.   Whatever the case someone at AI needs to exercise a little editorial discretion.   This article length is just asinine on a cell phone and that is doubled by having the whole thing downloaded again in the comments.  

    As for going all 64 bit that is a great move.   What people don’t understand is that it gets rid of a lot of software maintenance and cruft.   This allows Apple to retask people on newer features.   I would expect to see a new round of software innovation all built around Swift/SwiftUI.   Frankly this is a bit like a rebirth for MacOS.  
    If you think this is long, then I guess you haven’t seen the famously long, or rather, in-depth, reviews by ATP’s John Siracusa. This is nothing. 

    Good thing no one has a gun to your head, huh?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 94 of 168
    tyler82tyler82 Posts: 995member
    I'm pissed that Apple broke Reminders when I updated to iOS 13 and I can no longer sync my reminders with Mac OS Mojave. If I knew that would happen I would have never upgraded my reminders app (can't downgrade it), since I will not be upgrading to Catalina for a while until developers update the apps I use to 64-bit.
    Another example of Apple taketh away (can't wait to hear the triggered fanboi responses)
    elijahgbaconstang
  • Reply 95 of 168
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,072member
    tyler82 said:
    I'm pissed that Apple broke Reminders when I updated to iOS 13 and I can no longer sync my reminders with Mac OS Mojave. If I knew that would happen I would have never upgraded my reminders app (can't downgrade it), since I will not be upgrading to Catalina for a while until developers update the apps I use to 64-bit.
    Another example of Apple taketh away (can't wait to hear the triggered fanboi responses)
    You seem confused. The ones triggered are the people losing their minds over things that were made known to the public months and even years ago. These triggered poor souls are literary bemoaning these changes as the fall of Apple. 

    Bummer you updated your iOS 13 Reminders data format despite the warning message the first time you loaded the app and it asked whether you wanted to break compatibility. 
    edited October 2019 cy_starkmanmbenz1962watto_cobra
  • Reply 96 of 168
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 3,647member
    wizard69 said:

    dougd said:
    I wouldn't touch it for at least six months after the disastrous IOS 13 rollout

    First off, hard to trust you as an authority when you write "IOS" in all caps. It's "iOS"... "small eye". Get with the program, eh?  :D 

    Second, what iOS 13 disaster? I've installed it on multiple devices quickly and smoothly. No problems at all. Smoothest upgrade that I've had in 10 years.


    IOS 13 has issues just like every software release.    However it is perhaps the best new iOS version going.   I seriously like it bugs and all.  

    Some of these disaster comments have me wondering what sort of people are behind them.  It must be nice to think of yourself as perfect.  
    This.
    iOS 13 was a major release and 13.0 was rushed to allow loading on the new iPhones - hence the rapid release of 13.1 and 13.1.2. Yes, there were some bugs, but really not much different from every other major release, and they've been largely fixed by 13.1.2 (which came out a mere 11 days after iOS 13.0) I'm not sure how that qualifies as a disaster.

    Dougd's 6 months recommendation may be a bit excessive, but I certainly won't be downloading Catalina soon. If all the device drivers have been re-written, as someone mentioned above, there are bound to be bugs. Mojave is working perfectly for me, and there's really nothing in Catalina that I find necessary. I have several older apps I need for work so I'll be waiting to see if and how they work with Catalina before I start thinking about updating. 

  • Reply 97 of 168
    I don't have much left in 32-bit but I do have a favourite game from 2004 trapped in it. I've been on a 2013 MBP for a long time. Thinking to get a new one, a 32GB RAM 13" model if it comes to light this month. Then I can keep my 2013 for legacy things to include games and Final Cut Pro Studio; still need to tie up some loose ends with FCP and in the end it will be a game machine for the one game I love the most.

    Going with a new MBP and a new iPad for sidecar to hook up with my iPhone, AppleWatch, AppleTV and Apple TimeCapsule (you can't pry it from my cold dead hands).

    Still got a G5 PPC tower for legacy video editing and OS 9 games.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 98 of 168
    ylonylon Posts: 48member

    ylon said:
    This article disturbs me greatly. I've felt that AppleInsider is just not leveling with its readers for the last several years now. It has some fun and feel good articles, but this stuff about Catalina is a load of bullcrap. This OS release is the next solid step to the end of Apple and no one has the courage to stand up and talk about this. Do you realize how many of us our MOURNING this release of the OS and are carefully looking at Linux options at the moment (I know several colleagues who've actually "switched" again now). 

    Now granted, Linux can't fit the bill for any of us who need to do anything more than certain dedicated tasks that it's good at, but frankly the core OS has been suffering in macOS for many years now (and this is coming from both Apple engineers themselves and others who do low level system development).

    Apple is prepping us for a complete lockdown and I'll be darned if you find me fighting to jailbreak my workstation. I need low level kexts, I need better debugging facilities, I need kernel access and I frankly need to retain 32bit functionality. There's no actual reason to switch to 64bit fully from a technical standpoint (it's actually more optimized and efficient when you use 32bit apps. Period.). I can elucidate a lot more on these points, but to see Catalina spoken of so highly has completely obliterated my belief that AppleInsider can become anything more than lipstick for Apple now.
    Put down the crack pipe. This isn’t the DOOM of Apple, and if you had bothered to watch the WWDC keynote and state of the union, you’d know that. The future of app development on macOS is very bright. 

    But by all means, switch to the land of paradise known as Linux. But to answer your question, not many are mourning macOS. You’re just being dramatic because you fear change. 
    You're completely oblivious to reality.
    ElCapitanelijahgMplsP
  • Reply 99 of 168
    ylonylon Posts: 48member
    sflocal said:
    ylon said:
    This article disturbs me greatly. I've felt that AppleInsider is just not leveling with its readers for the last several years now. It has some fun and feel good articles, but this stuff about Catalina is a load of bullcrap. This OS release is the next solid step to the end of Apple and no one has the courage to stand up and talk about this. Do you realize how many of us our MOURNING this release of the OS and are carefully looking at Linux options at the moment (I know several colleagues who've actually "switched" again now). 

    Now granted, Linux can't fit the bill for any of us who need to do anything more than certain dedicated tasks that it's good at, but frankly the core OS has been suffering in macOS for many years now (and this is coming from both Apple engineers themselves and others who do low level system development).

    Apple is prepping us for a complete lockdown and I'll be darned if you find me fighting to jailbreak my workstation. I need low level kexts, I need better debugging facilities, I need kernel access and I frankly need to retain 32bit functionality. There's no actual reason to switch to 64bit fully from a technical standpoint (it's actually more optimized and efficient when you use 32bit apps. Period.). I can elucidate a lot more on these points, but to see Catalina spoken of so highly has completely obliterated my belief that AppleInsider can become anything more than lipstick for Apple now.
    Great... another one of these whackjobs.

    Your manifesto disturbs me (us) greatly.  How many people in the past couple decades have preached Linux eventually replacing the conventional Windows desktop?  I lost count.  Do you know?  I use Linux, even have Ubuntu as a VM on my Mac.  While it's fine for the server, it's complete crap for the desktop and has never been prime-time for the majority of computer users.  It's a curiosity at best for many and it has way too many usability problems that most non-tech people will never figure out.  Give it a rest.  That horse got beaten way too long ago.

    Please.. PLEASE get off your Apple-is-doomed soapbox and ride into the Linux sunset.  I promise you... we won't hope you'd look back.  Hurry... the sun sets in a few more hours.  

    Jeez... 
    As I've said before to another like you, you're completely oblivious to reality.
  • Reply 100 of 168
    ylon said:

    ylon said:
    This article disturbs me greatly. I've felt that AppleInsider is just not leveling with its readers for the last several years now. It has some fun and feel good articles, but this stuff about Catalina is a load of bullcrap. This OS release is the next solid step to the end of Apple and no one has the courage to stand up and talk about this. Do you realize how many of us our MOURNING this release of the OS and are carefully looking at Linux options at the moment (I know several colleagues who've actually "switched" again now). 

    Now granted, Linux can't fit the bill for any of us who need to do anything more than certain dedicated tasks that it's good at, but frankly the core OS has been suffering in macOS for many years now (and this is coming from both Apple engineers themselves and others who do low level system development).

    Apple is prepping us for a complete lockdown and I'll be darned if you find me fighting to jailbreak my workstation. I need low level kexts, I need better debugging facilities, I need kernel access and I frankly need to retain 32bit functionality. There's no actual reason to switch to 64bit fully from a technical standpoint (it's actually more optimized and efficient when you use 32bit apps. Period.). I can elucidate a lot more on these points, but to see Catalina spoken of so highly has completely obliterated my belief that AppleInsider can become anything more than lipstick for Apple now.
    Put down the crack pipe. This isn’t the DOOM of Apple, and if you had bothered to watch the WWDC keynote and state of the union, you’d know that. The future of app development on macOS is very bright. 

    But by all means, switch to the land of paradise known as Linux. But to answer your question, not many are mourning macOS. You’re just being dramatic because you fear change. 
    You're completely oblivious to reality.
    Ive been hearing this Linux will take over the world shit forever. Windows and MacOs are still thriving and dominate the desktop. While Linux may be on the majority of mobile devices, it is insignificant on the desktop, yet rules the roost on servers. But it's RISC (PowerPC) not CISC that is dominants hardware and Apple's A-Series chips are best in class, period. IBM loves Apple kit, Microsoft and Apple co-exist, while Google and Facebook make all their money selling your personal information, as you are their product - free is never free.

    IBM was once king, yet it's doing well. Microsoft was once king, yet it's doing well. Google has been the never ending queen along with FaceBook. While Apple is King for now, one day it will just be doing well in it's trillion dollar niche, as the only full service eco-system provider.

    Linux is just a tool, nothing more. iOS is MacOS, the one is built on the other, and both are Unix.

    Apple is DOOMED! I tell you DOOMED, going on 40 years? DOOMED!!!
    edited October 2019 StrangeDayscat52watto_cobra
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