Review: macOS Catalina 10.15 is what Apple promised the Mac could be, and is a crucial upg...

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  • Reply 141 of 168
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 2,581member
    ylon said:
    This article disturbs me greatly. I've felt that AppleInsider is just not leveling with its readers for the last several years now. It has some fun and feel good articles, but this stuff about Catalina is a load of bullcrap. This OS release is the next solid step to the end of Apple and no one has the courage to stand up and talk about this. Do you realize how many of us our MOURNING this release of the OS and are carefully looking at Linux options at the moment (I know several colleagues who've actually "switched" again now). 

    Now granted, Linux can't fit the bill for any of us who need to do anything more than certain dedicated tasks that it's good at, but frankly the core OS has been suffering in macOS for many years now (and this is coming from both Apple engineers themselves and others who do low level system development).

    Apple is prepping us for a complete lockdown and I'll be darned if you find me fighting to jailbreak my workstation. I need low level kexts, I need better debugging facilities, I need kernel access and I frankly need to retain 32bit functionality. There's no actual reason to switch to 64bit fully from a technical standpoint (it's actually more optimized and efficient when you use 32bit apps. Period.). I can elucidate a lot more on these points, but to see Catalina spoken of so highly has completely obliterated my belief that AppleInsider can become anything more than lipstick for Apple now.
    What do you need any of those things for? Sounds more like talking points. 
    Yes, the mythical MacOS rot.
    speaking of macOS rot, this site has made it a mission to point out "Apple Rot" with respect to Apple's software quality.

    https://macperformanceguide.com/
  • Reply 142 of 168
    vtvitavtvita Posts: 19member
    DED is the best. His analysis is so insightful.
    Dan_Dilgerwatto_cobra
  • Reply 143 of 168
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,158member
    crowley said:
    crowley said:
    Not sure which part was supposed to be crucial?

    I may install it on a partition when I have some time to kill, but ditching 32-bit apps... that's a tough pill to build up to, it'll take a while.
    What 32 bit apps do you use? 
    Games mainly, most of which will never be updated https://www.macgamerhq.com/opinion/32-bit-mac-games/
    So you spend a lot of time playing "Unreal Tournament 2004," and "Quake 4" from 2005? BullCrowley!

    The newest games on that list are many years old. If you want to play AAA Mac video games from the 2000s, go buy an old Mac at a pawn shop. 

    But you don't really play ancient games do you? Sounds like you just dredged up a list of discontinued games and are trying to promote the idea anyone cares and that Apple is doomed for 32-bits. Or perhaps you're an ML algorithm trained on comment section FUD?
    Whoops, and there was me thinking you were asking a genuine question in good faith. My mistake!

    I play old games sometimes, sorry not sorry that you have trouble believing that. The link I posted was just something I found, it’s by no means an exhaustive list of everything that will be rendered incompatible, or a list of games I play.

    I guess I could go buy an old Mac at a pawn shop, but why would I when I could use my existing Mac and just not update it to Catalina?  Why do you care so much about whether I upgrade my machine or not?
  • Reply 144 of 168
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,158member
    crowley said:
    crowley said:
    crowley said:
    Not sure which part was supposed to be crucial?

    I may install it on a partition when I have some time to kill, but ditching 32-bit apps... that's a tough pill to build up to, it'll take a while.
    What 32 bit apps do you use? 
    Games mainly, most of which will never be updated https://www.macgamerhq.com/opinion/32-bit-mac-games/
    So you’re expecting or hoping for the entire future of OS platform development to grind to a halt for all time so you don’t have to say goodbye to some old games or run them in a VM? “Yyyeaaahhh....”
    Never said anything of the sort. Get over yourself with this arrogant dick waving.
    Nice attempt to backpedal, my guy. You were complaining that upgrading to any and all future versions of macOS, beginning with this one, is a tough pill to swallow, due to the long-announced end of 32-bit apps. The absurdity of your comment was made clear by my putting it another way -- that the OS roadmap standing still to support old 32-bit apps, like your games, rather than have you just load them on another partition or VM, is fucking absurd. 

    You whiners and change-haters are the true arrogant lot, as if the rest of the world is going halt all progress because you have some old programs you failed to deal with.
    No back-pedalling at all. The biggest whiner around here is you, stretching out these threads with over-defensive bleating. You call other people butthurt, but no one else seems to take this nearly as personally as you (save perhaps the author). I’m not complaining about what Apple has done at all, just saying that I won’t be rushing to upgrade, and that when I do it will be dual booting with Mojave in a different partition. What about that offends you so much?
  • Reply 145 of 168
    Dan_DilgerDan_Dilger Posts: 1,583member
    That is the most absurd, ridiculous article Gurman has ever crapped together. 
    fastasleepmacpluspluswatto_cobra
  • Reply 146 of 168
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,158member
    That is the most absurd, ridiculous article Gurman has ever crapped together. 
    Seems well founded, referenced and has plenty of credible and applicable quotations from developers of note.  What specific issues do you have with the article?
  • Reply 147 of 168
    Dan_DilgerDan_Dilger Posts: 1,583member
    crowley said:
    crowley said:
    .
    What 32 bit apps do you use? 
    Games mainly, most of which will never be updated https://www.macgamerhq.com/opinion/32-bit-mac-games/
    So you spend a lot of time playing "Unreal Tournament 2004," and "Quake 4" from 2005? BullCrowley!

    The newest games on that list are many years old. If you want to play AAA Mac video games from the 2000s, go buy an old Mac at a pawn shop. 

    But you don't really play ancient games do you? Sounds like you just dredged up a list of discontinued games and are trying to promote the idea anyone cares and that Apple is doomed for 32-bits. Or perhaps you're an ML algorithm trained on comment section FUD?
    Whoops, and there was me thinking you were asking a genuine question in good faith. My mistake!

    I play old games sometimes, sorry not sorry that you have trouble believing that. The link I posted was just something I found, it’s by no means an exhaustive list of everything that will be rendered incompatible, or a list of games I play.

    I guess I could go buy an old Mac at a pawn shop, but why would I when I could use my existing Mac and just not update it to Catalina?  Why do you care so much about whether I upgrade my machine or not?
    If there were actually a real person who enjoyed playing 2000-era Mac AAA video games, and they were asked what games they actually played, they would rattle off a few titles and explain why they liked them, not post a link to discontinued games they googled, then wave their hands and complain about how they were victimized by not being believed, and then admit their earlier response was total bullshit, and then change the subject without ever mentioning a single example of a ten year old Mac video game they ever might want to actually boot up for fun in 2019. You are so phony I am embarrassed for you. 
    edited October 2019 fastasleepwatto_cobra
  • Reply 148 of 168
    NickDNickD Posts: 1unconfirmed, member
    I just upgraded much to my regret. After upgrading I tried opening Photos. Apparently it's trying to do all sorts of cool things. It's in a loop where it says "Detecting duplicates... Curating best photos... Composing layout... Gathering favorites... Analyzing scenes... Detecting duplicates..." it's been doing this for over an hour and I've been on hold with Apple support for 30 minutes. I have a small photo library about 200 photos or so. I don't want it to curate my photos or compose layouts I just want it to keep track of them reliably! I used to be such a dedicated Apple customer. Every device I bought was from Apple. As I was typing this I got someone from support and they said this is normal. It's normal to take over an hour to open Photos after you upgrade the operating system. In fact he told me to let it run for 24 hours. 24 hours so that it will do all sorts of crap that I don't care about. This is the last time I upgrade my desktop OS and from now on it's Android and Windows for me.
  • Reply 149 of 168
    macplusplusmacplusplus Posts: 2,096member
    crowley said:
    That is the most absurd, ridiculous article Gurman has ever crapped together. 
    Seems well founded, referenced and has plenty of credible and applicable quotations from developers of note.  What specific issues do you have with the article?
    What developers "of note"? True developers or programmers have no time to waste with tweeting or blogging. You don't do justice to hundreds of "influencers" on YouTube or Insta by sublimating a couple of self-important if not failed blogosphere celebrities.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 150 of 168
    kevin keekevin kee Posts: 1,291member
    wallym said:
    After updating, several of my third party development tools and programs no longer work.  These aren't 32 bit programs, but 64 bit apps.  Does Apple even test things?
    You don't make any sense. It should be the other way round. Developers update for OS, not OS update for developers.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 151 of 168
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,158member
    crowley said:
    crowley said:
    .
    What 32 bit apps do you use? 
    Games mainly, most of which will never be updated https://www.macgamerhq.com/opinion/32-bit-mac-games/
    So you spend a lot of time playing "Unreal Tournament 2004," and "Quake 4" from 2005? BullCrowley!

    The newest games on that list are many years old. If you want to play AAA Mac video games from the 2000s, go buy an old Mac at a pawn shop. 

    But you don't really play ancient games do you? Sounds like you just dredged up a list of discontinued games and are trying to promote the idea anyone cares and that Apple is doomed for 32-bits. Or perhaps you're an ML algorithm trained on comment section FUD?
    Whoops, and there was me thinking you were asking a genuine question in good faith. My mistake!

    I play old games sometimes, sorry not sorry that you have trouble believing that. The link I posted was just something I found, it’s by no means an exhaustive list of everything that will be rendered incompatible, or a list of games I play.

    I guess I could go buy an old Mac at a pawn shop, but why would I when I could use my existing Mac and just not update it to Catalina?  Why do you care so much about whether I upgrade my machine or not?
    If there were actually a real person who enjoyed playing 2000-era Mac AAA video games, and they were asked what games they actually played, they would rattle off a few titles and explain why they liked them, not post a link to discontinued games they googled, then wave their hands and complain about how they were victimized by not being believed, and then admit their earlier response was total bullshit, and then change the subject without ever mentioning a single example of a ten year old Mac video game they ever might want to actually boot up for fun in 2019. You are so phony I am embarrassed for you. 
    That’s it, you've got me, I’m lying. I come on here to lie about whether or not I’ll update macOS.  Actual lol, as if I care whether you believe me or not, you don’t get to make the rules about what a “real person” is.

    I have no obligation or compunction to tell you anything about me when you’re such a disingenuous bad faith actor. You don’t care what games I play, you just want an angle to continue the attack, because for some reason this really matters to you.

    Get over your Apple boner and listen to yourself sometime. 
    edited October 2019
  • Reply 152 of 168
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,158member
    crowley said:
    That is the most absurd, ridiculous article Gurman has ever crapped together. 
    Seems well founded, referenced and has plenty of credible and applicable quotations from developers of note.  What specific issues do you have with the article?
    What developers "of note"? True developers or programmers have no time to waste with tweeting or blogging. You don't do justice to hundreds of "influencers" on YouTube or Insta by sublimating a couple of self-important if not failed blogosphere celebrities.
    Tapbots are a decent dev. Insulting their celebrity doesn’t really answer the point their making, it just makes you look petty. And implying they not “true” developers because they have a twitter account is silly.

    Why do you think I’m trying to do justice to influencers?  Don’t even understand your final sentence at all.
    edited October 2019
  • Reply 153 of 168
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,104member
    NickD said:
    I just upgraded much to my regret. After upgrading I tried opening Photos. Apparently it's trying to do all sorts of cool things. It's in a loop where it says "Detecting duplicates... Curating best photos... Composing layout... Gathering favorites... Analyzing scenes... Detecting duplicates..." it's been doing this for over an hour and I've been on hold with Apple support for 30 minutes. I have a small photo library about 200 photos or so. I don't want it to curate my photos or compose layouts I just want it to keep track of them reliably! I used to be such a dedicated Apple customer. Every device I bought was from Apple. As I was typing this I got someone from support and they said this is normal. It's normal to take over an hour to open Photos after you upgrade the operating system. In fact he told me to let it run for 24 hours. 24 hours so that it will do all sorts of crap that I don't care about. This is the last time I upgrade my desktop OS and from now on it's Android and Windows for me.
    Windows and Android will definitely never do anything you don't want when you don't want it.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 154 of 168
    "Starting with macOS Catalina, your Mac uses zsh as the default login shell and interactive shell. You can make zsh the default in earlier versions of macOS as well."

    https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208050

    zsh is the default for newly created user accounts under Catalina. For existing accounts you enable it manually via Users & Groups pref pane as described in the support document.

    If those shell commands you copy & paste from web pages don't work, you may need to check the shell.
    edited October 2019 watto_cobra
  • Reply 155 of 168
    knowitallknowitall Posts: 1,648member
    I think dosdude1 doesn't agree with your last point: http://dosdude1.com/catalina/
  • Reply 156 of 168
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 2,581member
    "However, with the slowing potential for iPhone sales growth —there are no more China-sized markets with an American-sized middle class waiting to suddenly jump into the market for smartphones"

    Actually there is one market left for Apple to conquer => India
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 157 of 168
    rsambanrsamban Posts: 1unconfirmed, member
    Catalina is not good for parental controls. parental control app is removed and it is replaced by ScreenTime. And Screen time in mac is buggy. Talking to apple support and it is frustrating. At this point my opinion is Useless POC.
  • Reply 158 of 168
    Congratulations, Apple!  You have successfully recreated MS Windows!  The issues I'm having with apps and programs not working reminds me of why I left the PC world.  I'm having so many problems with our computers that I am restoring Sierra ASAP!  Way to go.
  • Reply 159 of 168
    I'm not a power user like many of you here. All I know is when I first tried to update to Catalina a couple weeks ago, my machine was bricked. Apple could not get it to respond, so they had to replace the Touch ID sensor, which required the replacement of the logic board. As a result I lost anything that wasn't being uploaded to the cloud, which was an eye-opener.

    I had been relying on Stickies for far too many things it seems....those are all gone. I used Dashboard everyday (and no, widgets are NOT still there in the Today panel of the Notification Center…very few widgets are available.) Why get rid of such a useful feature and not replicate its usefulness somewhere else?

    The biggest surprise has been my inability to connect my brand new Canon 80d camera. It seems the Canon software installer will not work on Catalina. I have now lost the ability to connect to my camera wirelessly to download photos to my computer.

    I am seriously considering selling the new MacBook Pro and switching back to PCs after 14 years (this time around) with Mac. I really like my iPhone and MBP, but adding features I don’t want (Mac Games, Mac TV and Movies, Continuity Sketch, etc.) and taking away features/accessibility I want/need is really frustrating. 
    edited October 2019
  • Reply 160 of 168
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,483member
    Late to the party, only just read this article.  Excellent read and very useful thank you DED.  Nice to see I am not the only one still using an @mac.com email!  :)
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