Review: macOS Catalina 10.15 is what Apple promised the Mac could be, and is a crucial upg...

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  • Reply 121 of 168
    Dan_DilgerDan_Dilger Posts: 1,583member
    ylon said:
    This article disturbs me greatly. I've felt that AppleInsider is just not leveling with its readers for the last several years now. It has some fun and feel good articles, but this stuff about Catalina is a load of bullcrap. This OS release is the next solid step to the end of Apple and no one has the courage to stand up and talk about this. Do you realize how many of us our MOURNING this release of the OS and are carefully looking at Linux options at the moment (I know several colleagues who've actually "switched" again now). 

    Now granted, Linux can't fit the bill for any of us who need to do anything more than certain dedicated tasks that it's good at, but frankly the core OS has been suffering in macOS for many years now (and this is coming from both Apple engineers themselves and others who do low level system development).

    Apple is prepping us for a complete lockdown and I'll be darned if you find me fighting to jailbreak my workstation. I need low level kexts, I need better debugging facilities, I need kernel access and I frankly need to retain 32bit functionality. There's no actual reason to switch to 64bit fully from a technical standpoint (it's actually more optimized and efficient when you use 32bit apps. Period.). I can elucidate a lot more on these points, but to see Catalina spoken of so highly has completely obliterated my belief that AppleInsider can become anything more than lipstick for Apple now.
    What do you need any of those things for? Sounds more like talking points. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 122 of 168
    Completely surprised they released it in the state it is in.
  • Reply 123 of 168
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,158member
    wallym said:
    After updating, several of my third party development tools and programs no longer work.  These aren't 32 bit programs, but 64 bit apps.  Does Apple even test things?
    I doubt Apple does much or any testing of third party software unless it's very big name.
  • Reply 124 of 168
    Dan_DilgerDan_Dilger Posts: 1,583member
    crowley said:
    crowley said:
    Not sure which part was supposed to be crucial?

    I may install it on a partition when I have some time to kill, but ditching 32-bit apps... that's a tough pill to build up to, it'll take a while.
    What 32 bit apps do you use? 
    Games mainly, most of which will never be updated https://www.macgamerhq.com/opinion/32-bit-mac-games/
    So you spend a lot of time playing "Unreal Tournament 2004," and "Quake 4" from 2005? BullCrowley!

    The newest games on that list are many years old. If you want to play AAA Mac video games from the 2000s, go buy an old Mac at a pawn shop. 

    But you don't really play ancient games do you? Sounds like you just dredged up a list of discontinued games and are trying to promote the idea anyone cares and that Apple is doomed for 32-bits. Or perhaps you're an ML algorithm trained on comment section FUD?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 125 of 168
    Dan_DilgerDan_Dilger Posts: 1,583member

    I stopped reading after this...
    —to the whimsical, excessively ornamented but minimally useful Dashboard of widgets. Dashboard is finally going away entirely in Catalina, but Widgets are still there, they're just architecturally better and easier to access from the Today panel of the Notification Center.
    What a load of doodoo. Dashboard is not minimally useful. It just failed to get the love that it needed to thrive properly. I use it daily in my "real job" to do "real work". To claim that Notification Center is a better replacement for it is misleading. There's barely any widgets available for Notification Center. I just opened the App Store section and count "15" widgets. Yup, that's it. And none of them do what I currently do in Dashboard.

    And how do I four-finger swipe to open up Notification Center? This is a breeze with Dashboard. Always there, ready to serve. Okay, so a two-finger swipe to the left on the right edge of the trackpad does the trick., so I'll give it a star for not being any harder to access.

    I don't agree that "Notification Center" is the right name for a place to access productivity tools. But since we're stuck with it, we need more widgets. Way more.
    What Dashboard widgets do you use? 

    Notification Center is a two fingers from the left edge gesture (see Trackpad configuration). Saves you two fingers!

    And the comment on "architecturally better" relates to how they work. In NC they are native app extensions. In Dashboard they were basically HTML&JavaScript mini webpages, and required launching a browser instance to run them.
    fastasleepwatto_cobra
  • Reply 126 of 168
    Dan_DilgerDan_Dilger Posts: 1,583member
    k2kw said:
    Another new aspect of gaming that Apple has addressed in both iOS 13 and Catalina is support for popular Bluetooth gaming controllers. In addition to existing MFi controllers, Apple has also expanded controller support to Sony's PlayStation DualShock 4 and Microsoft's Xbox Wireless Controllers with Bluetooth. This enables Mac, Apple TV, iPhone, and iPad players to dive into more complex and sophisticated gaming titles from the App Store and through the new Arcade.
    DED: Do you still predict a new Apple TV and/or gaming machine. I ask because I need something like the apple TV but can't stand the remote but have held off from buying Fire Cube or Roku.
    I did in September . If the Siri Remote is your issue, why not use the iOS Remote app, or any other remote? You can generally train your TV remote to also run Apple TV.   
    fastasleepwatto_cobra
  • Reply 127 of 168
    slurpyslurpy Posts: 5,352member
    wallym said:
    After updating, several of my third party development tools and programs no longer work.  These aren't 32 bit programs, but 64 bit apps.  Does Apple even test things?

    So the onus is on Apple to test the compatibility of every single app out there, and make changes to the OS to accomodate the individual needs of every app, instead of the onus being on the app developers to actually update their apps for compatibility with the new OS? 

    Ok then. What an absurd expectation. 
    StrangeDaysfastasleepwatto_cobra
  • Reply 128 of 168
    Dan_DilgerDan_Dilger Posts: 1,583member
    k2kw said:

    Given that you can continue to run 32 bit apps on your hardware in Mojave, it's hard to understand what you're upset about. It's a free OS update, it's not mandatory, it's reversible, and you can non-exclusively update while still maintaining a Mojave boot alternative. What has you so upset about it? Sounds like manufactured outrage.
    Are we going to get a new Apple TV unit?   new Remote? new controller like you wrote?    Apple Arcade is out.   Guess I can wait till the Mac event.
    Oh I thought you asked an honest question. You were trolling, surprise! 

    I've anticipated a lot of things that took longer than expected to arrive. I predicted Apple would use Apple TV to deliver apps and games long before tvOS, and that it would fund its own original content a very long time ago. I anticipated that Apple would integrate an iOS device into its MacBooks as a secondary touchscreen display as a way to differentiate its laptops from PCs well before it shipped Touch Bar. I expected Apple to add Siri functionality and wireless surround capabilities to its Beats speakers too early. But I didn't represent any of that as being a leak or gained from "people familiar with Apple's plans," I just saw it as the natural next thing to deliver. 
    fastasleepwatto_cobra
  • Reply 129 of 168
    Dan_DilgerDan_Dilger Posts: 1,583member
    wallym said:
    After updating, several of my third party development tools and programs no longer work.  These aren't 32 bit programs, but 64 bit apps.  Does Apple even test things?
    Third parties are supposed to test and prepare their code to work with the latest version of the platform. That's what the 4 month beta period is for. 
    StrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 130 of 168
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,072member
    wallym said:
    After updating, several of my third party development tools and programs no longer work.  These aren't 32 bit programs, but 64 bit apps.  Does Apple even test things?
    I think you mean, "Do my third parties even test things?" It's not Apple's job to ensure compatibility with every single third-party software shop in the world. It is their job to use the betas to ensure their tools work. 
    fastasleepwatto_cobra
  • Reply 131 of 168
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,072member

    michelb76 said:
    Completely surprised they released it in the state it is in.
    What state is that? Running fine here. What issues are you having?
    fastasleepwatto_cobra
  • Reply 132 of 168
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,072member
    crowley said:
    crowley said:
    crowley said:
    Not sure which part was supposed to be crucial?

    I may install it on a partition when I have some time to kill, but ditching 32-bit apps... that's a tough pill to build up to, it'll take a while.
    What 32 bit apps do you use? 
    Games mainly, most of which will never be updated https://www.macgamerhq.com/opinion/32-bit-mac-games/
    So you’re expecting or hoping for the entire future of OS platform development to grind to a halt for all time so you don’t have to say goodbye to some old games or run them in a VM? “Yyyeaaahhh....”
    Never said anything of the sort. Get over yourself with this arrogant dick waving.
    Nice attempt to backpedal, my guy. You were complaining that upgrading to any and all future versions of macOS, beginning with this one, is a tough pill to swallow, due to the long-announced end of 32-bit apps. The absurdity of your comment was made clear by my putting it another way -- that the OS roadmap standing still to support old 32-bit apps, like your games, rather than have you just load them on another partition or VM, is fucking absurd. 

    You whiners and change-haters are the true arrogant lot, as if the rest of the world is going halt all progress because you have some old programs you failed to deal with.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 133 of 168
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,072member

    palegolas said:
    ...they’ve deprecated and announced the planned end of life for 32-bit apps years ago, and yet people are still gonna get butthurt and whine about it when it finally happens.
    There's a lot of legacy apps that are not being developed anymore because there's no money in rewriting and recompiling them, but they might still be very useful, or in some cases crucial. There will be no official way to run these apps on modern computers, and it's frustrating for people relying on these app. Whining is legit. I love looking forward and adopting new standards. I have one really great synthesizer that is relying on legacy software though. It really hurts that the developer probably isn't gonna update the software, because it's 10 years old or so. Do we need to run a virtual Mac in Parallels or something to get 32-bit stuff to work?
    Uh, yeah -- if your developer terminated support on his decade-old program, that's exactly what you have to do. Or run a separate partition with Mojave. The fault of that unfortunate situation lies entirely and solely on the shoulders of the devs who decided to stop updating their software. Not on Apple, or Microsoft, or any other platform that continues to push the envelope and improve their platform. Apple isn't going to halt all forward motion because the developer of your decade-old program called it quits. 
    fastasleep
  • Reply 134 of 168
    Not sure which is more detailed, DED's thorough Catalina review here, or Ars Technica's:



    watto_cobra
  • Reply 135 of 168
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 2,581member
  • Reply 136 of 168
    Installed it on my iMac, MacBook, and Mac mini yesterday. The MacBook and Mac mini are fine, but the iMac keeps crashing, roughly every hour, with a kernel panic. No issues under Mojave. So freaking annoying. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 137 of 168
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,033member
    mrbofus said:
    Installed it on my iMac, MacBook, and Mac mini yesterday. The MacBook and Mac mini are fine, but the iMac keeps crashing, roughly every hour, with a kernel panic. No issues under Mojave. So freaking annoying. 
    And this happens after you booted into recovery mode, fixed any issues with the drive and reinstalled the OS over itself?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 138 of 168
    wallym said:
    After updating, several of my third party development tools and programs no longer work.  These aren't 32 bit programs, but 64 bit apps.  Does Apple even test things?
    Many 3rd party 64-bit apps contain or reference 32-bit processes. It's the responsibility of the developer to sort that out, not Apple.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 139 of 168
    ylon said:
    This article disturbs me greatly. I've felt that AppleInsider is just not leveling with its readers for the last several years now. It has some fun and feel good articles, but this stuff about Catalina is a load of bullcrap. This OS release is the next solid step to the end of Apple and no one has the courage to stand up and talk about this. Do you realize how many of us our MOURNING this release of the OS and are carefully looking at Linux options at the moment (I know several colleagues who've actually "switched" again now). 

    Now granted, Linux can't fit the bill for any of us who need to do anything more than certain dedicated tasks that it's good at, but frankly the core OS has been suffering in macOS for many years now (and this is coming from both Apple engineers themselves and others who do low level system development).

    Apple is prepping us for a complete lockdown and I'll be darned if you find me fighting to jailbreak my workstation. I need low level kexts, I need better debugging facilities, I need kernel access and I frankly need to retain 32bit functionality. There's no actual reason to switch to 64bit fully from a technical standpoint (it's actually more optimized and efficient when you use 32bit apps. Period.). I can elucidate a lot more on these points, but to see Catalina spoken of so highly has completely obliterated my belief that AppleInsider can become anything more than lipstick for Apple now.
    What do you need any of those things for? Sounds more like talking points. 
    Yes, the mythical MacOS rot.
    edited October 2019 watto_cobra
  • Reply 140 of 168
    mrbofus said:
    Installed it on my iMac, MacBook, and Mac mini yesterday. The MacBook and Mac mini are fine, but the iMac keeps crashing, roughly every hour, with a kernel panic. No issues under Mojave. So freaking annoying. 
    Doesn't really mean anything.
    watto_cobra
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