I suppose I will also now be called a racist because I think that it is STUPID to give ILLEGAL aliens driver's licenses in the state of California.
Gah.
Nope, that would be Xenophone.
actually, i agree, illegal aliens should not get any benefits.. WHY? because they are illegal, and don't pay taxes, hence they dont PAY for those benifits. come in legally or stay home and stop 'freeloading'.
(now lets see all the politically correct people who make this world a piss-hole to live in start complaining)
actually, i agree, illegal aliens should not get any benefits.. WHY? because they are illegal, and don't pay taxes, hence they dont PAY for those benifits. come in legally or stay home and stop 'freeloading'.
[aside]Well they do pay lots of taxes, just not always income taxes. And actually, most of them do pay that as well amazingly enough. When you use a fake SS# the taxes are taken out of your check but aren't attributed to anyone real. And I'd venture to guess that as many whites are working for cash as illegals.
But, the fees to get a license should pay for the process. In that case there's no need to consider it a state benefit.[/aside]
But, the fees to get a license should pay for the process. In that case there's no need to consider it a state benefit.[/aside]
even then. a drivers license says you are legally allowed to drive, how can you be legally allowed to drive, when you are not even supposed to be legally in the country??
You take a driver's test and pass it. Then you can legally drive.
They aren't supposed to work either... but plenty of people hire them. Why don't they go after the employers who break the law? Should they be allowed to drive too?
The Californian economy depends on cheap labor... it needs to accept the fact and deal with the consequences.
You take a driver's test and pass it. Then you can legally drive.
They aren't supposed to work either... but plenty of people hire them. Why don't they go after the employers who break the law? Should they be allowed to drive too?
The Californian economy depends on cheap labor... it needs to accept the fact and deal with the consequences.
I also bet you most of them are paid under the table, and they should go after employers that break the law. also, the drivers license is handed out by the government, if they are not legal to be there, then they should not be given a license that says they are legal to drive there. its that simple. if Californians economy depends on illegal aliens for labor then they have to fix thier problems instead of lettign illegal people get jobs, money and other benefits that they should not have.
You take a driver's test and pass it. Then you can legally drive.
They aren't supposed to work either... but plenty of people hire them. Why don't they go after the employers who break the law? Should they be allowed to drive too?
The Californian economy depends on cheap labor... it needs to accept the fact and deal with the consequences.
Whatever happened to Democrats standing for things like a fair living wage, the ability to unionize and attempts to end employer exploitation of employees?
You declare these things a fact of life and even encourage them in some attempt to appear racially tolerant.
Find another way to prove your racial tolerance without causing everyone else to go into the poor house.
My point is that rather than looking at immigants as a problem... California should embrace them as vital to its survival. They should be paying taxes... but also get minimum wage. A program to collect them and ship them back to wherever they came from would be much more costly than doing the right thing and seeing that they aren't abused by companies that employ them.
I'm sure that the amount of monies that immigrants get in this country is small in relation to amount of work they put into trying to succeed and achieve the american dream.
Californians complain about how much hey get taxed to support immigrants... when the reality is they spent more bailing out savings and loans and paying too much for energy.
My point is that rather than looking at immigants as a problem... California should embrace them as vital to its survival. They should be paying taxes... but also get minimum wage. A program to collect them and ship them back to wherever they came from would be much more costly than doing the right thing and seeing that they aren't abused by companies that employ them.
I'm sure that the amount of monies that immigrants get in this country is small in relation to amount of work they put into trying to succeed and achieve the american dream.
Californians complain about how much hey get taxed to support immigrants... when the reality is they spent more bailing out savings and loans and paying too much for energy.
there is nothing wrong with immigrants, the problem for one is ILLEGAL immigrants. hence they are illegal. are you saying california, or the us should just open up the boarders,let the flood gates in and screw everyone already living here?(sure the native americans would like it, but they werent actually native either, they also came from somewhere else long earlier, but thats another topic).
basically most people that hire the illegal aliens do it to be cheap, look at all the illegal alien gardners... hired by the RICH who can afford to pay someone who is legal.
if mexico has a problem with people not having enough work,ect, then let mexico deal with it, and not the US.
There would be virtually no illegal immigrants if there were no jobs for them. Don't arrest the addict, arrest the dealers. In this case the dealers are the people dealing out illegal jobs.
If that were going to be helpful, the government would be doing it. Instead it's a non-issue expect for xenophobes and people who probably haven't thought things through very much.
What does this have to do with Bustamante? Sorry I chimed in when I wasn't actually commenting on the veracity of the thread topic.
Thank you chu_bakka....being fluent in Spanish I know this is correct. To suggest that the slogan is racist is simply idiotic, ignorant and irresponsible. The level of ignorance and stupidity on these AO boards is mesmerizing sometimes. Some people should just SU and research something before posting the ignorant and ridiculous crap they hear on the radio or watch on TV.
On the issue of giving driver's licenses to illegal aliens....living in SoCal I can say that I feel safer knowing that said illegal aliens have taken and passed a driving test, know the traffic laws, carry insurance and identity records about them exist. Of course the little neocon wannabes would rather the illegal aliens remain annonymous, not carry auto insurance, and drive without knowing the traffic laws of our state. Brilliant!
Yeh, they are going to buy auto insurance-are you kidding me? They can't speak english but they are going to know all our traffic laws? Hey, heres an idea-how abort deporting them? Hear anything about laws, or do they mean nothing to you?.............................................. .........
Do you realize that pretty much anyone can get a Taxpayer ID (the government admits that they do not do background checks on those who apply for one). With that they get the drivers license.
Did you know that the Office of Homeland Security had no idea about this bill and were "alarmed" that such a bill was being signed?
There are huge loopholes regarding the security of this bill, but it doesn't matter anymore.
Today the bill gets chaptered which means that we have 90 days to gather 400,000 signatures to stop this bill from going into effect.
Once they get the 400,000 signatures (which will be easy), the bill will be voted upon by the people and will be thrown into the trash where it belongs.
Sign up at this site - Save Our License - and end this idiotic issue.
Illegals should not be legitimized. If you want the benefits of living in the USA, there are simple and explicit ways to do it.
Thank you for the link, I just signed it.
And for you and the rest of you here with a brain and some common sense, please join F.A.I.R, the Federation for American Immigration Reform and help bring some sanity back to government. The web site is http://www.fairus.org
Also, join USEnglish and help make English the official language of the US and put an end to this divisive language barrier that is starting to exist: http://www.us-english.org
You take a driver's test and pass it. Then you can legally drive.
They aren't supposed to work either... but plenty of people hire them. Why don't they go after the employers who break the law? Should they be allowed to drive too?
The Californian economy depends on cheap labor... it needs to accept the fact and deal with the consequences.
The economy does NOT depend on cheap labor, it depends on labor. How much do you think LEGAL immigrants earn? The business scum that hires them dont want to pay unemployment insurance, health benefits, or anything else. They just want to pay someone below minimum wage. And I agree with the other poster here who wonders why businesses who hire illegals aren't fined heavily for hiring illegals. They should, most definitely........................................ ...
There would be virtually no illegal immigrants if there were no jobs for them. Don't arrest the addict, arrest the dealers. In this case the dealers are the people dealing out illegal jobs.
If that were going to be helpful, the government would be doing it. Instead it's a non-issue expect for xenophobes and people who probably haven't thought things through very much.
What does this have to do with Bustamante? Sorry I chimed in when I wasn't actually commenting on the veracity of the thread topic.
I think the contention, made in a sort of drunk weaving manner, is that Cruz will blast Walmart for paying low wages and not allowing unions. However he will also keep giving rights and support to illegal immigrants who help keep wages down and also make it harder to unionize.
It's hypocritical to want to punish the employees and not the employers.
If anything the employers should be forced to hire the immigrants legally... let them earn minimum wage and pay taxes... plenty of foreigners work in this country legally... why should they be any different?
Which makes more sense spending millions to round them up, bus them out, break up families... communities. Why?
Their real point is that you can't become a citizen unless you pass an english test. Yet don't provide any means for someone wanting to be a citizen to learn english.
I do believe that immigrants should learn the english language... it can only help them... but you know that republicans would never fund it.
It's hypocritical to want to punish the employees and not the employers.
If anything the employers should be forced to hire the immigrants legally... let them earn minimum wage and pay taxes... plenty of foreigners work in this country legally... why should they be any different?
Which makes more sense spending millions to round them up, bus them out, break up families... communities. Why?
Do you blame them for wanting to make a living?
Yes, hire them legally, but only hire LEGAL immigrants.. Ya know. terrorists that snuck in here were illegal immigrants, should they be able to get jobs and licenses legally too? there is a reason people are supposed to go through things to get in and not just 'run accross the border into a land of free jobs, free healthcare, why is it the the illegal immigrants should get all the rules bent for them, when citizens cant?(because thats what you are asking for, either that, or just giving them all the same beneifts, yet they are still illegal..., I would love for this thing to be a ploy "come illegal immigrants get your licenses" and when they show up, back on the truc to ol' mexico.
Their real point is that you can't become a citizen unless you pass an english test. Yet don't provide any means for someone wanting to be a citizen to learn english.
I do believe that immigrants should learn the english language... it can only help them... but you know that republicans would never fund it.
I am all for them requiring to learn english. funny thing is when my mother became a citizen(she was a LEGAL immigrant, married father in the navy), she had to learn a bunch of stuff,and had to speak english.. did they like get rid of all that? Now a days you get people here complaining that everything isnt written in their native language(I have high portuguese population in my area) most of them learn english, but then you get ones that complain that no one understands them at the stores because they dont speak the NATIVE language here.
It's hypocritical to want to punish the employees and not the employers.
If anything the employers should be forced to hire the immigrants legally... let them earn minimum wage and pay taxes... plenty of foreigners work in this country legally... why should they be any different?
Which makes more sense spending millions to round them up, bus them out, break up families... communities. Why?
Do you blame them for wanting to make a living?
Yes round them up, bus them out. Why? Because they came in illegally and they shouldnt be rewarded with what every legal immigrant waits patiently for-legally.
I dont blame them for wanting to make a living-but I also dont think they should be rewarded for breaking our laws. Let them stand in line like everyone else. Who I really blame are the politicians, Presidents, and INS who are all allowing this travesty to take place...................................
It's hypocritical to want to punish the employees and not the employers.
If anything the employers should be forced to hire the immigrants legally... let them earn minimum wage and pay taxes... plenty of foreigners work in this country legally... why should they be any different?
Which makes more sense spending millions to round them up, bus them out, break up families... communities. Why?
Do you blame them for wanting to make a living?
This has been mentioned before. How do you prosecute employers when the illegal immigrants provide a false set of documents?
As I mentioned most illegals don't work for some substandard/below minimum wage money. They just work for less than the comparable wages in those industries. This is especially true for construction and jobs of that nature where lots of work is subcontracted out.
If a union sheetmetal worker is making $40 an hour and a nonunion illegal immigrant will do the job for $15, that is still working against the prevailing wage, against the union and making it harder for skilled legal immigrants and U.S. citizens to make a real living.
Why does this line of reasoning make sense in every other area besides illegal immigration?
If I claimed they wanted to ship the jobs overseas to stop unionization and lower labor costs, this would be understood. Allowing them to bring the overseas workers here brings the same effects. It should be stopped.
Their real point is that you can't become a citizen unless you pass an english test. Yet don't provide any means for someone wanting to be a citizen to learn english.
I do believe that immigrants should learn the english language... it can only help them... but you know that republicans would never fund it.
Then why are ballots printed in Spanish, Mandarin, etc? Why are there entire neighborhoods where noone speaks English? USEnglish also believes in full funding for english language courses, as do I. By the way, the chairman of USEnglish is latino............................................ ................
Comments
Originally posted by BR
I suppose I will also now be called a racist because I think that it is STUPID to give ILLEGAL aliens driver's licenses in the state of California.
Gah.
Nope, that would be Xenophone.
actually, i agree, illegal aliens should not get any benefits.. WHY? because they are illegal, and don't pay taxes, hence they dont PAY for those benifits. come in legally or stay home and stop 'freeloading'.
(now lets see all the politically correct people who make this world a piss-hole to live in start complaining)
Originally posted by The General
actually, i agree, illegal aliens should not get any benefits.. WHY? because they are illegal, and don't pay taxes, hence they dont PAY for those benifits. come in legally or stay home and stop 'freeloading'.
[aside]Well they do pay lots of taxes, just not always income taxes. And actually, most of them do pay that as well amazingly enough. When you use a fake SS# the taxes are taken out of your check but aren't attributed to anyone real. And I'd venture to guess that as many whites are working for cash as illegals.
But, the fees to get a license should pay for the process. In that case there's no need to consider it a state benefit.[/aside]
Originally posted by bunge
[aside]
But, the fees to get a license should pay for the process. In that case there's no need to consider it a state benefit.[/aside]
even then. a drivers license says you are legally allowed to drive, how can you be legally allowed to drive, when you are not even supposed to be legally in the country??
They aren't supposed to work either... but plenty of people hire them. Why don't they go after the employers who break the law? Should they be allowed to drive too?
The Californian economy depends on cheap labor... it needs to accept the fact and deal with the consequences.
Originally posted by chu_bakka
You take a driver's test and pass it. Then you can legally drive.
They aren't supposed to work either... but plenty of people hire them. Why don't they go after the employers who break the law? Should they be allowed to drive too?
The Californian economy depends on cheap labor... it needs to accept the fact and deal with the consequences.
I also bet you most of them are paid under the table, and they should go after employers that break the law. also, the drivers license is handed out by the government, if they are not legal to be there, then they should not be given a license that says they are legal to drive there. its that simple. if Californians economy depends on illegal aliens for labor then they have to fix thier problems instead of lettign illegal people get jobs, money and other benefits that they should not have.
Originally posted by chu_bakka
You take a driver's test and pass it. Then you can legally drive.
They aren't supposed to work either... but plenty of people hire them. Why don't they go after the employers who break the law? Should they be allowed to drive too?
The Californian economy depends on cheap labor... it needs to accept the fact and deal with the consequences.
Whatever happened to Democrats standing for things like a fair living wage, the ability to unionize and attempts to end employer exploitation of employees?
You declare these things a fact of life and even encourage them in some attempt to appear racially tolerant.
Find another way to prove your racial tolerance without causing everyone else to go into the poor house.
Nick
I'm sure that the amount of monies that immigrants get in this country is small in relation to amount of work they put into trying to succeed and achieve the american dream.
Californians complain about how much hey get taxed to support immigrants... when the reality is they spent more bailing out savings and loans and paying too much for energy.
Originally posted by chu_bakka
My point is that rather than looking at immigants as a problem... California should embrace them as vital to its survival. They should be paying taxes... but also get minimum wage. A program to collect them and ship them back to wherever they came from would be much more costly than doing the right thing and seeing that they aren't abused by companies that employ them.
I'm sure that the amount of monies that immigrants get in this country is small in relation to amount of work they put into trying to succeed and achieve the american dream.
Californians complain about how much hey get taxed to support immigrants... when the reality is they spent more bailing out savings and loans and paying too much for energy.
there is nothing wrong with immigrants, the problem for one is ILLEGAL immigrants. hence they are illegal. are you saying california, or the us should just open up the boarders,let the flood gates in and screw everyone already living here?(sure the native americans would like it, but they werent actually native either, they also came from somewhere else long earlier, but thats another topic).
basically most people that hire the illegal aliens do it to be cheap, look at all the illegal alien gardners... hired by the RICH who can afford to pay someone who is legal.
if mexico has a problem with people not having enough work,ect, then let mexico deal with it, and not the US.
If that were going to be helpful, the government would be doing it. Instead it's a non-issue expect for xenophobes and people who probably haven't thought things through very much.
What does this have to do with Bustamante? Sorry I chimed in when I wasn't actually commenting on the veracity of the thread topic.
Originally posted by Gilsch
Thank you chu_bakka....being fluent in Spanish I know this is correct. To suggest that the slogan is racist is simply idiotic, ignorant and irresponsible. The level of ignorance and stupidity on these AO boards is mesmerizing sometimes. Some people should just SU and research something before posting the ignorant and ridiculous crap they hear on the radio or watch on TV.
On the issue of giving driver's licenses to illegal aliens....living in SoCal I can say that I feel safer knowing that said illegal aliens have taken and passed a driving test, know the traffic laws, carry insurance and identity records about them exist. Of course the little neocon wannabes would rather the illegal aliens remain annonymous, not carry auto insurance, and drive without knowing the traffic laws of our state. Brilliant!
Yeh, they are going to buy auto insurance-are you kidding me? They can't speak english but they are going to know all our traffic laws? Hey, heres an idea-how abort deporting them? Hear anything about laws, or do they mean nothing to you?.............................................. .........
Originally posted by Cake
Oh, you'd feel safer?
Do you realize that pretty much anyone can get a Taxpayer ID (the government admits that they do not do background checks on those who apply for one). With that they get the drivers license.
Did you know that the Office of Homeland Security had no idea about this bill and were "alarmed" that such a bill was being signed?
There are huge loopholes regarding the security of this bill, but it doesn't matter anymore.
Today the bill gets chaptered which means that we have 90 days to gather 400,000 signatures to stop this bill from going into effect.
Once they get the 400,000 signatures (which will be easy), the bill will be voted upon by the people and will be thrown into the trash where it belongs.
Sign up at this site - Save Our License - and end this idiotic issue.
Illegals should not be legitimized. If you want the benefits of living in the USA, there are simple and explicit ways to do it.
Thank you for the link, I just signed it.
And for you and the rest of you here with a brain and some common sense, please join F.A.I.R, the Federation for American Immigration Reform and help bring some sanity back to government. The web site is http://www.fairus.org
Also, join USEnglish and help make English the official language of the US and put an end to this divisive language barrier that is starting to exist: http://www.us-english.org
.................................................. ....
Originally posted by chu_bakka
You take a driver's test and pass it. Then you can legally drive.
They aren't supposed to work either... but plenty of people hire them. Why don't they go after the employers who break the law? Should they be allowed to drive too?
The Californian economy depends on cheap labor... it needs to accept the fact and deal with the consequences.
The economy does NOT depend on cheap labor, it depends on labor. How much do you think LEGAL immigrants earn? The business scum that hires them dont want to pay unemployment insurance, health benefits, or anything else. They just want to pay someone below minimum wage. And I agree with the other poster here who wonders why businesses who hire illegals aren't fined heavily for hiring illegals. They should, most definitely........................................ ...
Originally posted by bunge
There would be virtually no illegal immigrants if there were no jobs for them. Don't arrest the addict, arrest the dealers. In this case the dealers are the people dealing out illegal jobs.
If that were going to be helpful, the government would be doing it. Instead it's a non-issue expect for xenophobes and people who probably haven't thought things through very much.
What does this have to do with Bustamante? Sorry I chimed in when I wasn't actually commenting on the veracity of the thread topic.
I think the contention, made in a sort of drunk weaving manner, is that Cruz will blast Walmart for paying low wages and not allowing unions. However he will also keep giving rights and support to illegal immigrants who help keep wages down and also make it harder to unionize.
It makes him sort of hypocritical in my book.
Nick
If anything the employers should be forced to hire the immigrants legally... let them earn minimum wage and pay taxes... plenty of foreigners work in this country legally... why should they be any different?
Which makes more sense spending millions to round them up, bus them out, break up families... communities. Why?
Do you blame them for wanting to make a living?
Their real point is that you can't become a citizen unless you pass an english test. Yet don't provide any means for someone wanting to be a citizen to learn english.
I do believe that immigrants should learn the english language... it can only help them... but you know that republicans would never fund it.
Originally posted by chu_bakka
It's hypocritical to want to punish the employees and not the employers.
If anything the employers should be forced to hire the immigrants legally... let them earn minimum wage and pay taxes... plenty of foreigners work in this country legally... why should they be any different?
Which makes more sense spending millions to round them up, bus them out, break up families... communities. Why?
Do you blame them for wanting to make a living?
Yes, hire them legally, but only hire LEGAL immigrants.. Ya know. terrorists that snuck in here were illegal immigrants, should they be able to get jobs and licenses legally too? there is a reason people are supposed to go through things to get in and not just 'run accross the border into a land of free jobs, free healthcare, why is it the the illegal immigrants should get all the rules bent for them, when citizens cant?(because thats what you are asking for, either that, or just giving them all the same beneifts, yet they are still illegal..., I would love for this thing to be a ploy "come illegal immigrants get your licenses" and when they show up, back on the truc to ol' mexico.
Originally posted by chu_bakka
That U.S. English thing is bullsh!t.
Their real point is that you can't become a citizen unless you pass an english test. Yet don't provide any means for someone wanting to be a citizen to learn english.
I do believe that immigrants should learn the english language... it can only help them... but you know that republicans would never fund it.
I am all for them requiring to learn english. funny thing is when my mother became a citizen(she was a LEGAL immigrant, married father in the navy), she had to learn a bunch of stuff,and had to speak english.. did they like get rid of all that? Now a days you get people here complaining that everything isnt written in their native language(I have high portuguese population in my area) most of them learn english, but then you get ones that complain that no one understands them at the stores because they dont speak the NATIVE language here.
Originally posted by chu_bakka
It's hypocritical to want to punish the employees and not the employers.
If anything the employers should be forced to hire the immigrants legally... let them earn minimum wage and pay taxes... plenty of foreigners work in this country legally... why should they be any different?
Which makes more sense spending millions to round them up, bus them out, break up families... communities. Why?
Do you blame them for wanting to make a living?
Yes round them up, bus them out. Why? Because they came in illegally and they shouldnt be rewarded with what every legal immigrant waits patiently for-legally.
I dont blame them for wanting to make a living-but I also dont think they should be rewarded for breaking our laws. Let them stand in line like everyone else. Who I really blame are the politicians, Presidents, and INS who are all allowing this travesty to take place...................................
Originally posted by chu_bakka
It's hypocritical to want to punish the employees and not the employers.
If anything the employers should be forced to hire the immigrants legally... let them earn minimum wage and pay taxes... plenty of foreigners work in this country legally... why should they be any different?
Which makes more sense spending millions to round them up, bus them out, break up families... communities. Why?
Do you blame them for wanting to make a living?
This has been mentioned before. How do you prosecute employers when the illegal immigrants provide a false set of documents?
As I mentioned most illegals don't work for some substandard/below minimum wage money. They just work for less than the comparable wages in those industries. This is especially true for construction and jobs of that nature where lots of work is subcontracted out.
If a union sheetmetal worker is making $40 an hour and a nonunion illegal immigrant will do the job for $15, that is still working against the prevailing wage, against the union and making it harder for skilled legal immigrants and U.S. citizens to make a real living.
Why does this line of reasoning make sense in every other area besides illegal immigration?
If I claimed they wanted to ship the jobs overseas to stop unionization and lower labor costs, this would be understood. Allowing them to bring the overseas workers here brings the same effects. It should be stopped.
Nick
Originally posted by chu_bakka
That U.S. English thing is bullsh!t.
Their real point is that you can't become a citizen unless you pass an english test. Yet don't provide any means for someone wanting to be a citizen to learn english.
I do believe that immigrants should learn the english language... it can only help them... but you know that republicans would never fund it.
Then why are ballots printed in Spanish, Mandarin, etc? Why are there entire neighborhoods where noone speaks English? USEnglish also believes in full funding for english language courses, as do I. By the way, the chairman of USEnglish is latino............................................ ................