If you are right, then that is a very sad state we're in as a country and as a culture.
If Howard Dean is finished, I go away with one great reality. He shaped the debate. He forced Democrats to look within and come to the realization that THEY ARE ALSO TO BLAME. He was the first to rail against the popular zeitgeist that labels any critic of the administration a "terrorist sympathizer". He was the first to question why Democrats were lining up behind Bush's. Now, everyone is pretty much co-opting Dean's platform. And that is good.
i never said dean was finished, i just said i think it cost him new hampshire. dean has a ton of money and one mis-step doesn't cost much now. continued mis-steps will do him in.
drudge wasn't the first to pick up on dean's antics, the daily show's been watching for a year.
i think you're giving drudge way to much credit.
anyway, drudge or no drudge any candidate who does what dean is doing is going to be made into a laughing stock.
right now dean has a lead in the polls in new hampshire (for what that's worth) but it's not nearly the lead he probably thought he would have. and they say it hasn't taken into effect his loss in iowa, or the bounce kerry may get from his victory.
i never said dean was finished, i just said i think it cost him new hampshire. dean has a ton of money and one mis-step doesn't cost much now. continued mis-steps will do him in.
drudge wasn't the first to pick up on dean's antics, the daily show's been watching for a year.
i think you're giving drudge way to much credit.
anyway, drudge or no drudge any candidate who does what dean is doing is going to be made into a laughing stock.
right now dean has a lead in the polls in new hampshire (for what that's worth) but it's not nearly the lead he probably thought he would have. and they say it hasn't taken into effect his loss in iowa, or the bounce kerry may get from his victory.
I understand what you are saying. But, I don't think Dean can survive a loss in New Hampshire. If he loses NH, he's done. The dominoes are already setup for his fall and Jodi Wilgoren and her ilk are already writing his epitaph. The media does not want Dean. Plain and simple. I don't know how he can overcome his negative press AND the jokes being generated by "arrr".
Again, Dean has done nothing more or less worse than Bush did in 2000. Bush survived coccaine. Bush survived crashing his car while driving drunk. Bush survived every mangled word he spoke. Dean, however, is held to a higher standard. I don't care how many times he yells "arrrrrr", it's miniscule to Bush's history and record as governor while running for president in 2000.
someone with a small war chest couldn't survive losing new hampshire. dean could remake himself on the campaign trail. he should fire the idiot on his staff that thought up the bus stunt, i thought that was more embarrassing than the wwf speech.
i just heard him on the radio explaining it (unsatisfactorily, i think) and he said he was disappointed that no one has shown images of the audience during his rave-up as that would have made it all seem saner.
to which i would say, "i could hear the audience's reaction and that doesn't make it seem less funny. i doubt seeing them would change it"
you'd think that a candidate would know that a 5 second sound bite ("read my lips, no new taxes") or a simple image (dukakis on a tank with ill fitting helmet) can kill you.
does dean have a sense of humor? the reason i ask is because every time i seem him laugh he looks pissed.
He can go postal all he wants............but..........I think the "man of the people" shtick did it for me---there's NO WAY anybody is going to insult my intelligence AND get my vote.
There's a huge difference between a couple guys on a message board goofing on Bush and a guy who runs the #1 news portal in the United States. Big lop-sided difference.
You know this. You just choose to continue this stupid argument.
I was upset at the Clark slander. I'm upset at the Dean characterization. If Drudge ran a "hit piece" on Bush that was chock full of lies and outright distortions, I'd be upset as well. But, Drudge doesn't run those stories, does he?
The real strawman to what you are saying is that you try to make it sound like Drudge did what no other news organization did when it was clear that Dean put a big target on his forehead. Other groups were running the footage over and over and commenting about it in a funny manner. As others have mentioned, Dean could likely deflect this with a little humor. The problem is that he looks like he wants to mug you when smiling and he is likely too egotistical to be able to make fun of himself.
As for one-sided stories. I'll be looking for Journey with Dean from HBO soon put together by the son/daughter of Dennis Hastert.
Actually while people were worried that movie would show Bush in an unflattering light, I was amazed in some ways how well he came off, even while showing her voting for Bill Bradley over Bush, appearing to make some aspects of campaigning look contrived by Bush, as opposed to contrived in general, etc.
you guys are more upset at dean for pumping up his base after a third place finish in iowa than you are about bush for lying to the american people to get us into a war to control the oil in iraq.
500 AMERICAN SOLDIERS ARE DEAD IN IRAQ!
if bill clinton or any democrat were in office now you, and drudge, and rush, would be all over him...
Unless Kerry really fouls up tonight, Dean might as well sleep in on Wednesday morning, because he'll be done.
Gallup polls have Kerry leading Dean by a whopping 10% in NH. It'll only snowball if Kerry maintains the course and doesn't scream "YEAAAGGGHHH!" or something silly like that...
Kerry's the only candidate I would seriously consider voting for instead of Bush come November.
I would be cautious about writing off Dean so early. People were willing to write off Kerry and certainly Edwards a little while ago, and it's still very early in the nomination race.
I still think his "Rebel Yell" was good clean fun.
I would be cautious about writing off Dean so early. People were willing to write off Kerry and certainly Edwards a little while ago, and it's still very early in the nomination race.
I still think his "Rebel Yell" was good clean fun.
I think Dean ought to turn it around by going on Leno and doing a skit dressed as Braveheart.
I mean if Kerry can say f*ck, and wear motorcycle jackets, Dean ought to do the "take back our land" Braveheart thing.
I think Dean ought to turn it around by going on Leno and doing a skit dressed as Braveheart.
I mean if Kerry can say f*ck, and wear motorcycle jackets, Dean ought to do the "take back our land" Braveheart thing.
Nick
'
Who gives a shit if Kerry said f*ck. Who gives a shit if Kerry wore motorcycle jackets. Who gives a shit if Clark called Kerry a lieutenant, or whatever he was. Who gives a shit if Dean yelled "yeawwww!"
Doesn't anyone around here recognize how f*cking silly you all sound. THIS IS THE CRITERIA WE'RE GOING TO USE TO ELECT A PRESIDENT?
God help us. Truly. This country is ASS BACKWARDS. Coccaine snorting, drunk driving and gay bashing are perfectly acceptable for presidents, but if a candidate yells "yeawwww"...well screw him, he's not presidential.
The real strawman to what you are saying is that you try to make it sound like Drudge did what no other news organization did when it was clear that Dean put a big target on his forehead. Other groups were running the footage over and over and commenting about it in a funny manner. As others have mentioned, Dean could likely deflect this with a little humor. The problem is that he looks like he wants to mug you when smiling and he is likely too egotistical to be able to make fun of himself.
As for one-sided stories. I'll be looking for Journey with Dean from HBO soon put together by the son/daughter of Dennis Hastert.
Actually while people were worried that movie would show Bush in an unflattering light, I was amazed in some ways how well he came off, even while showing her voting for Bill Bradley over Bush, appearing to make some aspects of campaigning look contrived by Bush, as opposed to contrived in general, etc.
Nick
Well, if you look at the time stamp of when I started this thread, DRUDGE was the only one attacking Dean for yelling "yeaw"! Go ahead, check. I know you won't because you're too busy shoving straw into the farmer's old clothes.
For days the press has been busily telling us who needs to finish where in the New Hampshire primary to be taken seriously. Now they've taken it a step further, setting expectations not just for the primary, but also for tonight's pre-primary debate.
Dan Balz of The Washington Post informs us that "Dean will have the most on the line Thursday night, and quotes a New Hampshire pollster, who tells him: "Dean has to perform at that debate."
There's some truth to that assessment, of course. Dean has been slipping a bit in recent New Hampshire polls, and a strong debate performance could help turn things around. But as reporters well know, the goofy format of the debates, and the presence of seven candidates, makes it next to impossible for any candidate to stand out. With the possible exception of the very-long-shot Al Sharpton, no candidate has so far taken advantage of any of the previous debates to boost his chances.
And Balz offers no evidence that any actual New Hampshire voters are investing tonight's debate with anything like the importance that Balz and his pollster are.
So Balz's assessment seems designed to set up a post-debate story that will likely go something like this: "In an underwhelming performance in last night's debate, Howard Dean failed to live up to this reporter's yardstick, as laid out yesterday, and continues to look for ways to revive his struggling campaign." (Not quite in those words, of course, but close enough.)
And there it is. The press sets up an expectation that may or not bear any relevance to voters' decision; the candidate fails to meet those expectations; and the press calls it a failure. So it goes in the bizarro alternative world campaign reporters call their own.
Well, if you look at the time stamp of when I started this thread, DRUDGE was the only one attacking Dean for yelling "yeaw"! Go ahead, check. I know you won't because you're too busy shoving straw into the farmer's old clothes.
You've been bucked off coffee and back to bottled water young man.
Drudge was no quicker on the attack. Everyone from CNN to NPR has mentioned it. You likely just noticed it from Drudge first because you dislike him so.
Likewise I don't see how showing that everyone from NPR to Drudge covering this is a strawman. If Drudge has no shame, then apparently neither does NPR, AP, and everyone else who has mentioned it.
Comments
MP3
Originally posted by pfflam
As the guy said who did it: it had to be done:
MP3
Originally posted by Northgate
If you are right, then that is a very sad state we're in as a country and as a culture.
If Howard Dean is finished, I go away with one great reality. He shaped the debate. He forced Democrats to look within and come to the realization that THEY ARE ALSO TO BLAME. He was the first to rail against the popular zeitgeist that labels any critic of the administration a "terrorist sympathizer". He was the first to question why Democrats were lining up behind Bush's. Now, everyone is pretty much co-opting Dean's platform. And that is good.
i never said dean was finished, i just said i think it cost him new hampshire. dean has a ton of money and one mis-step doesn't cost much now. continued mis-steps will do him in.
drudge wasn't the first to pick up on dean's antics, the daily show's been watching for a year.
i think you're giving drudge way to much credit.
anyway, drudge or no drudge any candidate who does what dean is doing is going to be made into a laughing stock.
right now dean has a lead in the polls in new hampshire (for what that's worth) but it's not nearly the lead he probably thought he would have. and they say it hasn't taken into effect his loss in iowa, or the bounce kerry may get from his victory.
Originally posted by superkarate monkeydeathcar
i never said dean was finished, i just said i think it cost him new hampshire. dean has a ton of money and one mis-step doesn't cost much now. continued mis-steps will do him in.
drudge wasn't the first to pick up on dean's antics, the daily show's been watching for a year.
i think you're giving drudge way to much credit.
anyway, drudge or no drudge any candidate who does what dean is doing is going to be made into a laughing stock.
right now dean has a lead in the polls in new hampshire (for what that's worth) but it's not nearly the lead he probably thought he would have. and they say it hasn't taken into effect his loss in iowa, or the bounce kerry may get from his victory.
I understand what you are saying. But, I don't think Dean can survive a loss in New Hampshire. If he loses NH, he's done. The dominoes are already setup for his fall and Jodi Wilgoren and her ilk are already writing his epitaph. The media does not want Dean. Plain and simple. I don't know how he can overcome his negative press AND the jokes being generated by "arrr".
Again, Dean has done nothing more or less worse than Bush did in 2000. Bush survived coccaine. Bush survived crashing his car while driving drunk. Bush survived every mangled word he spoke. Dean, however, is held to a higher standard. I don't care how many times he yells "arrrrrr", it's miniscule to Bush's history and record as governor while running for president in 2000.
It's a double standard. Period.
Originally posted by Northgate
Dean, however, is held to a higher standard.
you're right! he's a democrat!
someone with a small war chest couldn't survive losing new hampshire. dean could remake himself on the campaign trail. he should fire the idiot on his staff that thought up the bus stunt, i thought that was more embarrassing than the wwf speech.
not that I particularly want him to though . . . . but he needs to learn to spin it in his favor
to which i would say, "i could hear the audience's reaction and that doesn't make it seem less funny. i doubt seeing them would change it"
you'd think that a candidate would know that a 5 second sound bite ("read my lips, no new taxes") or a simple image (dukakis on a tank with ill fitting helmet) can kill you.
does dean have a sense of humor? the reason i ask is because every time i seem him laugh he looks pissed.
Originally posted by Northgate
There's a huge difference between a couple guys on a message board goofing on Bush and a guy who runs the #1 news portal in the United States. Big lop-sided difference.
You know this. You just choose to continue this stupid argument.
I was upset at the Clark slander. I'm upset at the Dean characterization. If Drudge ran a "hit piece" on Bush that was chock full of lies and outright distortions, I'd be upset as well. But, Drudge doesn't run those stories, does he?
The real strawman to what you are saying is that you try to make it sound like Drudge did what no other news organization did when it was clear that Dean put a big target on his forehead. Other groups were running the footage over and over and commenting about it in a funny manner. As others have mentioned, Dean could likely deflect this with a little humor. The problem is that he looks like he wants to mug you when smiling and he is likely too egotistical to be able to make fun of himself.
As for one-sided stories. I'll be looking for Journey with Dean from HBO soon put together by the son/daughter of Dennis Hastert.
Actually while people were worried that movie would show Bush in an unflattering light, I was amazed in some ways how well he came off, even while showing her voting for Bill Bradley over Bush, appearing to make some aspects of campaigning look contrived by Bush, as opposed to contrived in general, etc.
Nick
500 AMERICAN SOLDIERS ARE DEAD IN IRAQ!
if bill clinton or any democrat were in office now you, and drudge, and rush, would be all over him...
Originally posted by Northgate
Damned if you do. Damned if you don't.
Unless Kerry really fouls up tonight, Dean might as well sleep in on Wednesday morning, because he'll be done.
Gallup polls have Kerry leading Dean by a whopping 10% in NH. It'll only snowball if Kerry maintains the course and doesn't scream "YEAAAGGGHHH!" or something silly like that...
Kerry's the only candidate I would seriously consider voting for instead of Bush come November.
if NPR is making fun of a Democrat, it was bad.
I still think his "Rebel Yell" was good clean fun.
Originally posted by BuonRotto
I would be cautious about writing off Dean so early. People were willing to write off Kerry and certainly Edwards a little while ago, and it's still very early in the nomination race.
I still think his "Rebel Yell" was good clean fun.
I think Dean ought to turn it around by going on Leno and doing a skit dressed as Braveheart.
I mean if Kerry can say f*ck, and wear motorcycle jackets, Dean ought to do the "take back our land" Braveheart thing.
Nick
Originally posted by trumptman
I think Dean ought to turn it around by going on Leno and doing a skit dressed as Braveheart.
I mean if Kerry can say f*ck, and wear motorcycle jackets, Dean ought to do the "take back our land" Braveheart thing.
Nick
'
Who gives a shit if Kerry said f*ck. Who gives a shit if Kerry wore motorcycle jackets. Who gives a shit if Clark called Kerry a lieutenant, or whatever he was. Who gives a shit if Dean yelled "yeawwww!"
Doesn't anyone around here recognize how f*cking silly you all sound. THIS IS THE CRITERIA WE'RE GOING TO USE TO ELECT A PRESIDENT?
God help us. Truly. This country is ASS BACKWARDS. Coccaine snorting, drunk driving and gay bashing are perfectly acceptable for presidents, but if a candidate yells "yeawwww"...well screw him, he's not presidential.
F*CK!
Okay, back to de-caf.
Originally posted by trumptman
The real strawman to what you are saying is that you try to make it sound like Drudge did what no other news organization did when it was clear that Dean put a big target on his forehead. Other groups were running the footage over and over and commenting about it in a funny manner. As others have mentioned, Dean could likely deflect this with a little humor. The problem is that he looks like he wants to mug you when smiling and he is likely too egotistical to be able to make fun of himself.
As for one-sided stories. I'll be looking for Journey with Dean from HBO soon put together by the son/daughter of Dennis Hastert.
Actually while people were worried that movie would show Bush in an unflattering light, I was amazed in some ways how well he came off, even while showing her voting for Bill Bradley over Bush, appearing to make some aspects of campaigning look contrived by Bush, as opposed to contrived in general, etc.
Nick
Well, if you look at the time stamp of when I started this thread, DRUDGE was the only one attacking Dean for yelling "yeaw"! Go ahead, check. I know you won't because you're too busy shoving straw into the farmer's old clothes.
Dan Balz of The Washington Post informs us that "Dean will have the most on the line Thursday night, and quotes a New Hampshire pollster, who tells him: "Dean has to perform at that debate."
There's some truth to that assessment, of course. Dean has been slipping a bit in recent New Hampshire polls, and a strong debate performance could help turn things around. But as reporters well know, the goofy format of the debates, and the presence of seven candidates, makes it next to impossible for any candidate to stand out. With the possible exception of the very-long-shot Al Sharpton, no candidate has so far taken advantage of any of the previous debates to boost his chances.
And Balz offers no evidence that any actual New Hampshire voters are investing tonight's debate with anything like the importance that Balz and his pollster are.
So Balz's assessment seems designed to set up a post-debate story that will likely go something like this: "In an underwhelming performance in last night's debate, Howard Dean failed to live up to this reporter's yardstick, as laid out yesterday, and continues to look for ways to revive his struggling campaign." (Not quite in those words, of course, but close enough.)
And there it is. The press sets up an expectation that may or not bear any relevance to voters' decision; the candidate fails to meet those expectations; and the press calls it a failure. So it goes in the bizarro alternative world campaign reporters call their own.
--Zachary Roth
Originally posted by Northgate
Well, if you look at the time stamp of when I started this thread, DRUDGE was the only one attacking Dean for yelling "yeaw"! Go ahead, check. I know you won't because you're too busy shoving straw into the farmer's old clothes.
You've been bucked off coffee and back to bottled water young man.
Drudge was no quicker on the attack. Everyone from CNN to NPR has mentioned it. You likely just noticed it from Drudge first because you dislike him so.
Likewise I don't see how showing that everyone from NPR to Drudge covering this is a strawman. If Drudge has no shame, then apparently neither does NPR, AP, and everyone else who has mentioned it.
Now be nice.
Nick