you guys are more upset at dean for pumping up his base after a third place finish in iowa than you are about bush for lying to the american people to get us into a war to control the oil in iraq.
Bush has nothing to do with it for me. You suggest a false dichotomy between Bush and Dean. There are other people out there. It's Dean/Other Democrat that's the choice being debated now. Not Dean/Bush.
I would be cautious about writing off Dean so early. People were willing to write off Kerry and certainly Edwards a little while ago, and it's still very early in the nomination race.
Not as early as you might think. The Dems deliverately "front-loaded" their primaries so they could quickly choose their nominee and then unite behind him. March 2nd is Super Tuesday - just a little over 5 weeks from now.
oh and its 8 mb hi-quality quicktime and its not shot by a professional, just a member of the crowd. notice dean smiling at the end...
im backing this guy, win or loose...
he stands up for what he belives in...
he's honest, and doesn't just say what people wanna hear...
---
from the campaign:
Friday, January 23, 2004
Clarity and Honesty and Heart ... and Resurgence!
by Zephyr Teachout
I just got back from Keene -- oh my -- the Governor couldn't speak for a few minutes because the standing ovation in the opera house, from the floor and the balcony and people hanging off the press-riser, was so long. Again and again during his speech -- when he talked about reproductive health rights, when he talked about globalizing the rights of workers, when he talked about renewable energy, and when he talked about standing up for what's right, even when its not popular -- the audience rose in a deep wave to clap and cheer and turn to eachother.
Over 1,500 were there, every seat filled and the overflow room filled and the overflow to the overflow room filled, and even the benches behind the Governor on the stage filled with Dean Leaders (grassroots leaders who have organized in the area). As he has all week, he talked and then took time to answer a dozen questions, from a young man nervously reading his crib sheet to a confident woman reading her question from notes on her hand. One undecided woman, with her 4-month old, told me that his willingness to talk directly and answer directly was what most attracted her.
NH Voter for Dean in the comments put it better than I could:
The place was packed, and the Gov. was in top form. I heard him speak in Peterborough on 1/2, but he was completely different tonight. Not subdued at all; on the contrary, he was more passionate than before, his ideas came across very well, and he connected deeply with the spirit of the audience. He seemed much more driven, but in a real statesmanlike way, unlike the somewhat tedious Kerry. When it was over, all I could think of was, "My god, this man is completely un-beholden to special interests. Imagine what a country we would have with him at the helm!"
"He's solid rock-solid," Rose said. "I liked it that he put the deficit as one of his top issues."
Mona Brooks agreed, "he's got clarity and honesty and heart."
"He doesn't have that filter," the man next to her said, "that tells politicians to say whatever it takes to get elected. I hope he never gets it. That filter keeps you away from the grassroots."
"And the truth!" Mona chimed in
It's going to be hard -- as Dean said tonight in Keene, "maybe one of the reasons Washington is giving us such a hard time is that we're not beholden to them. The only thing I'm beholden to is the American people."
... It's going to be hard -- as Dean said tonight in Keene, "maybe one of the reasons Washington is giving us such a hard time is that we're not beholden to them..."
Except it wasn't Washington that gave him a hard time. It was Iowa. People have somehow forgotten that Dean finished a poor third there before that speech was made. He already had big problems. This just maginified them.
Except it wasn't Washington that gave him a hard time. It was Iowa. People have somehow forgotten that Dean finished a poor third there before that speech was made. He already had big problems. This just maginified them.
No, you're wrong. "Washington" has been giving Dean a hard time for months on end. The Democratic Party doesn't like Dean and has been obstructing him ever since he became the front runner.
I would like to see turnout numbers for Iowa. My guess is that turnout was bigger than normal or expected.
No, you're wrong. "Washington" has been giving Dean a hard time for months on end. The Democratic Party doesn't like Dean and has been obstructing him ever since he became the front runner...
I'm not wrong. "Washington" didn't vote in the Iowa caucuses. As for the party establishment not liking Dean, so what? How many voters wait to find out what Terry McAuliffe thinks before they cast their votes? Besides "Washington's" opposition didn't prevent Dean from getting a number of high profile endorsements.
For about 30 years or so it has not been uncommon for successful presidential candidacies to be cast as the outsiders against the Washington insiders - some more plausibly than others. Think Carter, Reagan, Clinton, Dubya. Having "Washington" against you is an advantage. It doesn't explain Dean's poor showing in Iowa.
This thing about Dean being an "outsider" slays me.
The sooner you guys plug in to your local political commitees (yes that will take some time and effort) and find out that it isn't much more than organized crime run by assholes (yes both parties), you will understand that believing the two party system can produce independant thinking is like mistaking your septic tank for your Jacuzzi.
I wonder if Teddy Roosevelt would have been elected president if there was a media out to get him. They would have had a field day with the way he delivered his speeches.
Two edits and I already hate how the two sites use that clip.
If and how drunk Bush was at a wedding in 1992 is nobodys buisness (same story as Clinton and sex). To compare what someone say at a wedding to the Dean rally is simply without point. Notise I am not saying that Dean looked like a fool or anything like that but you should say that instead of "Oh yeah? But the president looks more like a fool than he did".
Comments
http://www.ouroldhouse.com/geri/postcaucus.mov
Originally posted by superkarate monkeydeathcar
you should tell everyone it's a 35 MB download
"its a 35 mb download"
its not my page and i have broadband so it loaded quickly (i keep forgetting there are still people on dialup lol)
Originally posted by futuremac
you guys are more upset at dean for pumping up his base after a third place finish in iowa than you are about bush for lying to the american people to get us into a war to control the oil in iraq.
Bush has nothing to do with it for me. You suggest a false dichotomy between Bush and Dean. There are other people out there. It's Dean/Other Democrat that's the choice being debated now. Not Dean/Bush.
Kirk
Originally posted by BuonRotto
I would be cautious about writing off Dean so early. People were willing to write off Kerry and certainly Edwards a little while ago, and it's still very early in the nomination race.
Not as early as you might think. The Dems deliverately "front-loaded" their primaries so they could quickly choose their nominee and then unite behind him. March 2nd is Super Tuesday - just a little over 5 weeks from now.
A: Indeed, Drudge has no shame.
I can't believe it took four pages to get a straight answer!
http://www.idiomstudio.com/
oh and its 8 mb hi-quality quicktime and its not shot by a professional, just a member of the crowd. notice dean smiling at the end...
im backing this guy, win or loose...
he stands up for what he belives in...
he's honest, and doesn't just say what people wanna hear...
---
from the campaign:
Friday, January 23, 2004
Clarity and Honesty and Heart ... and Resurgence!
by Zephyr Teachout
I just got back from Keene -- oh my -- the Governor couldn't speak for a few minutes because the standing ovation in the opera house, from the floor and the balcony and people hanging off the press-riser, was so long. Again and again during his speech -- when he talked about reproductive health rights, when he talked about globalizing the rights of workers, when he talked about renewable energy, and when he talked about standing up for what's right, even when its not popular -- the audience rose in a deep wave to clap and cheer and turn to eachother.
Over 1,500 were there, every seat filled and the overflow room filled and the overflow to the overflow room filled, and even the benches behind the Governor on the stage filled with Dean Leaders (grassroots leaders who have organized in the area). As he has all week, he talked and then took time to answer a dozen questions, from a young man nervously reading his crib sheet to a confident woman reading her question from notes on her hand. One undecided woman, with her 4-month old, told me that his willingness to talk directly and answer directly was what most attracted her.
NH Voter for Dean in the comments put it better than I could:
The place was packed, and the Gov. was in top form. I heard him speak in Peterborough on 1/2, but he was completely different tonight. Not subdued at all; on the contrary, he was more passionate than before, his ideas came across very well, and he connected deeply with the spirit of the audience. He seemed much more driven, but in a real statesmanlike way, unlike the somewhat tedious Kerry. When it was over, all I could think of was, "My god, this man is completely un-beholden to special interests. Imagine what a country we would have with him at the helm!"
"He's solid rock-solid," Rose said. "I liked it that he put the deficit as one of his top issues."
Mona Brooks agreed, "he's got clarity and honesty and heart."
"He doesn't have that filter," the man next to her said, "that tells politicians to say whatever it takes to get elected. I hope he never gets it. That filter keeps you away from the grassroots."
"And the truth!" Mona chimed in
It's going to be hard -- as Dean said tonight in Keene, "maybe one of the reasons Washington is giving us such a hard time is that we're not beholden to them. The only thing I'm beholden to is the American people."
http://www.blogforamerica.com/
Originally posted by futuremac
... It's going to be hard -- as Dean said tonight in Keene, "maybe one of the reasons Washington is giving us such a hard time is that we're not beholden to them..."
Except it wasn't Washington that gave him a hard time. It was Iowa. People have somehow forgotten that Dean finished a poor third there before that speech was made. He already had big problems. This just maginified them.
Originally posted by zaphod_beeblebrox
Except it wasn't Washington that gave him a hard time. It was Iowa. People have somehow forgotten that Dean finished a poor third there before that speech was made. He already had big problems. This just maginified them.
No, you're wrong. "Washington" has been giving Dean a hard time for months on end. The Democratic Party doesn't like Dean and has been obstructing him ever since he became the front runner.
I would like to see turnout numbers for Iowa. My guess is that turnout was bigger than normal or expected.
Originally posted by BuonRotto
Q: Does Drudge have no shame?
A: Indeed, Drudge has no shame.
I can't believe it took four pages to get a straight answer!
You missed my post!
On page 2 I think.
Originally posted by bunge
No, you're wrong. "Washington" has been giving Dean a hard time for months on end. The Democratic Party doesn't like Dean and has been obstructing him ever since he became the front runner...
I'm not wrong. "Washington" didn't vote in the Iowa caucuses. As for the party establishment not liking Dean, so what? How many voters wait to find out what Terry McAuliffe thinks before they cast their votes? Besides "Washington's" opposition didn't prevent Dean from getting a number of high profile endorsements.
For about 30 years or so it has not been uncommon for successful presidential candidacies to be cast as the outsiders against the Washington insiders - some more plausibly than others. Think Carter, Reagan, Clinton, Dubya. Having "Washington" against you is an advantage. It doesn't explain Dean's poor showing in Iowa.
The sooner you guys plug in to your local political commitees (yes that will take some time and effort) and find out that it isn't much more than organized crime run by assholes (yes both parties), you will understand that believing the two party system can produce independant thinking is like mistaking your septic tank for your Jacuzzi.
you just have to choose an asshole and stick with them.
Or jump parties when it suits you.
But claiming you're somehow better because you believe in a third party... which party? They just haven't received their asshole credentials yet.
The Green's have Nader... there's an asshole!
Originally posted by zaphod_beeblebrox
As for the party establishment not liking Dean, so what? How many voters wait to find out what Terry McAuliffe thinks before they cast their votes?
You're going on record to day that political parties don't have any influence over voters. You'd have to be stupid to believe this.
Originally posted by bunge
You're going on record to day that political parties don't have any influence over voters...
No I'm not. Don't put words in my mouth. Political parties are about more than their Washington establishments.
listen to the crowd... and you'll know why he was yelling...
and look at the recovering Alcholic Bush NOT drinking.
http://homepage.mac.com/brianflemmin...h_vs_dean.html
Originally posted by chu_bakka
Here's another perspective on the Dean rally...
listen to the crowd... and you'll know why he was yelling...
and look at the recovering Alcholic Bush NOT drinking.
http://homepage.mac.com/brianflemmin...h_vs_dean.html
Two edits and I already hate how the two sites use that clip.
If and how drunk Bush was at a wedding in 1992 is nobodys buisness (same story as Clinton and sex). To compare what someone say at a wedding to the Dean rally is simply without point. Notise I am not saying that Dean looked like a fool or anything like that but you should say that instead of "Oh yeah? But the president looks more like a fool than he did".
and the Press piling on Dean after a rally speech... and when you hear from a crowd's perspective... it's OBVIOUS why he was yelling.