One thing I haven't seen discussed is what kind of pressure will this put on Universal to go format neutral. Will they feel they'll have to tap into the larger and soon to be even larger BD market? Anyone have any thoughts on this.
If I were Univeral, I wouldn't bother until if and when Warner's decision affects Blu-Ray's marketshare. It'll be interesting to see if the Blu-Ray format begins to venture out beyond a PS3 movie format now, or if high definition movies remain a niche product regardless of there being a clearer winner today.
Look, we all know that the Blu-ray studios got incentives at the beginning. Why else did they choose a format that costs far more to produce?
Maybe it's because it's got even more DRM than HD-DVD?
I haven't really been participating in any of these annual Blu-ray Vs. HD-DVD threads, just looking on a bit confused as to why people are so happy to back a format that perpetuates the deeply irritating region-coding and gives studios even more control than HD-DVD does.
Everyone is in it for the $ and more control by studios would mean opportunity for studios to make even more money in the end. I can see the incentives even without the bribery.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H
(for the record I don't have an HD player of either format and probably won't for another couple of years)
I believe there will be many thinking the same way, unless Universal and Paramount go neutral at CES 2008, which is very doubtful. This news will keep the consumers away while the HDM will remain popular enthusiasts format via combo/(BD-HD player)/PC drive.
I'm afraid that Warner Bros news may keep the HDM market in the niche even longer as long as the there are remaining HD-DVD exclusive supporting studios. I believe a better decision from studios to keep HDM alive or become mass friendly would have been for every studios going neutral along with cheaper combo players in the future. Well, niche or mass, I will still have HDM's.
I just hope Warner releases some of the anticipated HD-DVD titles before May 2008. I'm not planing on getting a standalone Blu-Ray player unless combo player with profile 1.1/2.0(optional) can be had for $299 or less.... or a combo PC drive for around $99.
Now... time to wait for the CES2008 announcements.....
Warner Home Entertainment President Kevin Tsujihara says the studio took no pay-offs to exclusively back Blu-ray.
In a post-announcement conference call, Tsujihara flatly denied rumors that studio had accepted anywhere from 250M to $500M in exchange for dropping its HD DVD format support.
According to the exec, Warner's sole motivation in dropping its HD DVD format support was to ensure growth of the "category" and the long-term health of the industry.
"The packaged media business is a $42 billion dollar business worldwide at the retail level, and we [Warner] have the largest market share of anybody," said Tsujihara. "From our perspective, the most important piece of this whole puzzle is, "How do we get growth back into this category?" That far outweighed anything else."
This [decision] was one hundred percent around what makes the most sense for the consumer, the retailer and the industry. This was not a bidding war. This was all about what was best, strategically, for us."
Stay tuned for more news from the Tsujihara conference call shortly...
Great stories from you all, but most of us here know better. Blu-ray was the superior format in every way and that is why Warner chose Blu.
Now... time to wait for the CES2008 announcements.....
I bet Toshiba's scrambling to revise their 2-hour HD DVD presentation
Someone on the AVS forum suggested Toshiba become the leader in combo players; not a bad idea at all. Lord knows they won't sell many more HD DVD-only players.
I bet Toshiba's scrambling to revise their 2-hour HD DVD presentation
Someone on the AVS forum suggested Toshiba become the leader in combo players; not a bad idea at all. Lord knows they won't sell many more HD DVD-only players.
Blu-ray was the superior format in every way and that is why Warner chose Blu.
Not in every way. It has more restrictive DRM and thus is less consumer friendly.
That Sony has won a media battle in the internet era with a format with the most restrictive DRM will only embolden them and other content and technology companies who want to lock down media in the future. That Blu-Ray's fanboys aggressively pushed the format without demanding the DRM be cut loose has left us in a precarious position, rights-wise.
Enjoy your victory of the studios over the consumers. While I'm glad to soon have HDM to do backups on my Mac, I currently have no plans to adopt Blu-Ray in my TV room until all its DRM is well and truly broken. For now, upscaled DVDs are fine for me, and downloads will serve well for rental purposes.
Not in every way. It has more restrictive DRM and thus is less consumer friendly.
That Sony has won a media battle in the internet era with a format with the most restrictive DRM will only embolden them and other content and technology companies who want to lock down media in the future. That Blu-Ray's fanboys aggressively pushed the format without demanding the DRM be cut loose has left us in a precarious position, rights-wise.
Enjoy your victory of the studios over the consumers. While I'm glad to soon have HDM to do backups on my Mac, I currently have no plans to adopt Blu-Ray in my TV room until all its DRM is well and truly broken. For now, upscaled DVDs are fine for me, and downloads will serve well for rental purposes.
Freaking cry me a river. Give it a rest. Why don't you sue Apple/iTunes while your at it too.
“Based on the timing of the Warner Home Video announcement today, we have decided to postpone our CES 2008 press conference scheduled for Sunday, January 6th at 8:30 p.m. in the Wynn Hotel. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.
We are currently discussing the potential impact of this announcement with the other HD DVD partner companies and evaluating next steps. We believe the consumer continues to benefit from HD DVD’s commitment to quality and affordability – a bar that is critical for the mainstream success of any format.
We’ll continue to keep you updated on new developments around HD DVD.”
HD DVD is in trouble
If there is one thing that everyone is agreeing on, it is that the HD DVD is in trouble due to the Warner announcement. This decision to cancel the HD DVD press event further proves that the defection of Warner Brothers studios from the HD DVD camp is a major blow.
I am very disappointed that they have canceled the event. I would have liked to see them try to explain this move or attempt to put some type of positive spin on it. I guess I will only be attending the Blu-ray CES event this year! Stay tuned to this site for CES 2008 coverage!
Talk about throwing in the towel. I'm so glad to see it end. I love the fact that even in end they still try and play it off as if HD-DVD is cheaper, a blatant lye, therefore more consumer friendly. Don't these assholes read the statistics? Blu Ray was kicking their ass already. Freaking idiots. They can't even go down with any dignity.
I don't want to argue about it now, but I like to think that the original consumer outcry for Blu Ray capacity advantage over anything else had a big role to play among consumers purchasing decisions. I know it was the reason I got into Blu Ray early. I really hadn't planned on buying a high def DVD player this early, but I did because I felt I had to throw in my support for what I believed in. And I believe after looking at the technical details of both formats that Blu Ray was a superior product, and I didn't want to be that asshole that let someone else make the decisions for me. I bought in to support the cause. Pure, and simple.
Frank, I don't understand why the DRM is such a big issue to you. First off, (apparently) it is/almost broken. Secondly, if you are buying legitimately then what is the problem? Are you really going to back up all your movies? I'm sure your collection will survive on the shelf....scratches too. You would need a drive on your computer to do that anyways.
The DRM thing is a cop out, Toshiba would have implemented it, if they had come up with it. They are just using the lack of a DRM, invented by the other guys as a means to say "Hey, we are the good guys consumers" Bullshit!
Pros for Blu-Ray: Size (lots more to come too!), Very scratch resistant, cooler name, cooler colour (literally, it is calming and red is associated with fire and blood), almost all manufacturers backing it
Cons: An extra DRM, which MOST consumers won't even know about. Sorry to tell you Frank, most people are clueless about DRM, they buy movies and watch them...that's it. Hell, most people wouldn't know how to back up movies if you did it for them.
90+% = Most people don't give a crap about DRM anyways. I buy everything from iTunes music wise, and I could give a crap if my CD has DRM on it. I'm not doing anything illegitimately with it anyway so what would I care for? 90% of people feel the same way. DRM in one form or another has been in existence for years, and nobody really cares that it's there because there isn't anything they do that changes the fact that they have what they want when they buy it. A Movie, a CD, a Video tape. It does everything they want it to.
Regardless, HD DRM was broken before the first Blu Ray player was ever shipped anyway. For those who want to backup a 25+GB disk the tools are online - go find them. There are not that many people that feel the need to do that with blu ray because they are durable as all hell anyway. AFAIAC this DRM BS is just whining.
Do you know what the suggested retail price, for example, the Pirates of the Caribbean 3 blu-ray is in the U.K.? £29.99. That's $60! For one movie! The region-coding DRM layer allows studios to continue to rip-off all markets outside the U.S.
In addition, whilst building a server-based collection of HD movies would currently eat up HDD space a bit too quickly, it's not going to be that long until multi-terabyte storage is reasonably priced. The idea of having all one's movies stored on a server and accessing them over the network is highly appealing. iTunes works great for music and a similar thing for movies would be great.
There's no doubt in my mind that the failure of the AppleTV is related to the DRM on DVDs and the fact that studios don't want them ripped - if iTunes had the ability to rip DVDs, and later (when HDD space allows) HD discs it would really help the AppleTV's cause.
Do you know what the suggested retail price, for example, the Pirates of the Caribbean 3 blu-ray is in the U.K.? £29.99. That's $60! For one movie! The region-coding DRM layer allows studios to continue to rip-off all markets outside the U.S.
In addition, whilst building a server-based collection of HD movies would currently eat up HDD space a bit too quickly, it's not going to be that long until multi-terabyte storage is reasonably priced. The idea of having all one's movies stored on a server and accessing them over the network is highly appealing. iTunes works great for music and a similar thing for movies would be great.
There's no doubt in my mind that the failure of the AppleTV is related to the DRM on DVDs and the fact that studios don't want them ripped - if iTunes had the ability to rip DVDs, and later (when HDD space allows) HD discs it would really help the AppleTV's cause.
And someone finally gets it!
The future is personal VOD. I can do it now with my AppleTV, network storage, and DVDs. I like the idea of sitting at my couch with the girlfriend, or a group of people, and surfing through all the movies to pick one out. It impresses the hell out of everyone, and I don't need to go to the shelf to name off everything, load the DVD player, wade through the crap FBI warning and menus. HD DVD had this going, in so much as no region coding and only AACS. For all current titles, I could start to build a VOD library using a mac mini and Front Row 2.0.
However, AACS hasn't been broken (let alone BD+). AACS has been circumvented for current titles because a Processing Key was obtained from current computer playing software. If the AACS-LA got smart, they would stop issuing keys to PowerDVD and WinDVD, and it would be months (maybe years) before another key was found from a hardware player that could be used.
You're probably right that the future is personal VOD, but it's not in my near future. Technically possible and logistically feasible are two different things. My take on VOD is that it should work when *I* demand it, and that doesn't happen now for me in HD (or even in SD if truth be told).
Comments
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHja_cr2ZVs
One thing I haven't seen discussed is what kind of pressure will this put on Universal to go format neutral. Will they feel they'll have to tap into the larger and soon to be even larger BD market? Anyone have any thoughts on this.
If I were Univeral, I wouldn't bother until if and when Warner's decision affects Blu-Ray's marketshare. It'll be interesting to see if the Blu-Ray format begins to venture out beyond a PS3 movie format now, or if high definition movies remain a niche product regardless of there being a clearer winner today.
Look, we all know that the Blu-ray studios got incentives at the beginning. Why else did they choose a format that costs far more to produce?
Maybe it's because it's got even more DRM than HD-DVD?
I haven't really been participating in any of these annual Blu-ray Vs. HD-DVD threads, just looking on a bit confused as to why people are so happy to back a format that perpetuates the deeply irritating region-coding and gives studios even more control than HD-DVD does.
Everyone is in it for the $ and more control by studios would mean opportunity for studios to make even more money in the end. I can see the incentives even without the bribery.
(for the record I don't have an HD player of either format and probably won't for another couple of years)
I believe there will be many thinking the same way, unless Universal and Paramount go neutral at CES 2008, which is very doubtful. This news will keep the consumers away while the HDM will remain popular enthusiasts format via combo/(BD-HD player)/PC drive.
I'm afraid that Warner Bros news may keep the HDM market in the niche even longer as long as the there are remaining HD-DVD exclusive supporting studios. I believe a better decision from studios to keep HDM alive or become mass friendly would have been for every studios going neutral along with cheaper combo players in the future. Well, niche or mass, I will still have HDM's.
I just hope Warner releases some of the anticipated HD-DVD titles before May 2008. I'm not planing on getting a standalone Blu-Ray player unless combo player with profile 1.1/2.0(optional) can be had for $299 or less.... or a combo PC drive for around $99.
Now... time to wait for the CES2008 announcements.....
This one is for you...
Warner: No Payoff for Move to Blu-ray
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/1327
Warner Home Entertainment President Kevin Tsujihara says the studio took no pay-offs to exclusively back Blu-ray.
In a post-announcement conference call, Tsujihara flatly denied rumors that studio had accepted anywhere from 250M to $500M in exchange for dropping its HD DVD format support.
According to the exec, Warner's sole motivation in dropping its HD DVD format support was to ensure growth of the "category" and the long-term health of the industry.
"The packaged media business is a $42 billion dollar business worldwide at the retail level, and we [Warner] have the largest market share of anybody," said Tsujihara. "From our perspective, the most important piece of this whole puzzle is, "How do we get growth back into this category?" That far outweighed anything else."
This [decision] was one hundred percent around what makes the most sense for the consumer, the retailer and the industry. This was not a bidding war. This was all about what was best, strategically, for us."
Stay tuned for more news from the Tsujihara conference call shortly...
Great stories from you all, but most of us here know better. Blu-ray was the superior format in every way and that is why Warner chose Blu.
Now... time to wait for the CES2008 announcements.....
I bet Toshiba's scrambling to revise their 2-hour HD DVD presentation
Someone on the AVS forum suggested Toshiba become the leader in combo players; not a bad idea at all. Lord knows they won't sell many more HD DVD-only players.
I bet Toshiba's scrambling to revise their 2-hour HD DVD presentation
Someone on the AVS forum suggested Toshiba become the leader in combo players; not a bad idea at all. Lord knows they won't sell many more HD DVD-only players.
Apparently there won't be any presentation:
http://wesleytech.com/ces-hd-dvd-eve...ouncement/483/
Apparently there won't be any presentation:
http://wesleytech.com/ces-hd-dvd-eve...ouncement/483/
Wow, I guess they didn't have anything positive to announce for HD DVD
Blu-ray was the superior format in every way and that is why Warner chose Blu.
Not in every way. It has more restrictive DRM and thus is less consumer friendly.
That Sony has won a media battle in the internet era with a format with the most restrictive DRM will only embolden them and other content and technology companies who want to lock down media in the future. That Blu-Ray's fanboys aggressively pushed the format without demanding the DRM be cut loose has left us in a precarious position, rights-wise.
Enjoy your victory of the studios over the consumers. While I'm glad to soon have HDM to do backups on my Mac, I currently have no plans to adopt Blu-Ray in my TV room until all its DRM is well and truly broken. For now, upscaled DVDs are fine for me, and downloads will serve well for rental purposes.
Not in every way. It has more restrictive DRM and thus is less consumer friendly.
That Sony has won a media battle in the internet era with a format with the most restrictive DRM will only embolden them and other content and technology companies who want to lock down media in the future. That Blu-Ray's fanboys aggressively pushed the format without demanding the DRM be cut loose has left us in a precarious position, rights-wise.
Enjoy your victory of the studios over the consumers. While I'm glad to soon have HDM to do backups on my Mac, I currently have no plans to adopt Blu-Ray in my TV room until all its DRM is well and truly broken. For now, upscaled DVDs are fine for me, and downloads will serve well for rental purposes.
Freaking cry me a river. Give it a rest. Why don't you sue Apple/iTunes while your at it too.
Apparently there won't be any presentation:
http://wesleytech.com/ces-hd-dvd-eve...ouncement/483/
“Based on the timing of the Warner Home Video announcement today, we have decided to postpone our CES 2008 press conference scheduled for Sunday, January 6th at 8:30 p.m. in the Wynn Hotel. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.
We are currently discussing the potential impact of this announcement with the other HD DVD partner companies and evaluating next steps. We believe the consumer continues to benefit from HD DVD’s commitment to quality and affordability – a bar that is critical for the mainstream success of any format.
We’ll continue to keep you updated on new developments around HD DVD.”
HD DVD is in trouble
If there is one thing that everyone is agreeing on, it is that the HD DVD is in trouble due to the Warner announcement. This decision to cancel the HD DVD press event further proves that the defection of Warner Brothers studios from the HD DVD camp is a major blow.
I am very disappointed that they have canceled the event. I would have liked to see them try to explain this move or attempt to put some type of positive spin on it. I guess I will only be attending the Blu-ray CES event this year! Stay tuned to this site for CES 2008 coverage!
Talk about throwing in the towel.
I don't want to argue about it now, but I like to think that the original consumer outcry for Blu Ray capacity advantage over anything else had a big role to play among consumers purchasing decisions. I know it was the reason I got into Blu Ray early. I really hadn't planned on buying a high def DVD player this early, but I did because I felt I had to throw in my support for what I believed in. And I believe after looking at the technical details of both formats that Blu Ray was a superior product, and I didn't want to be that asshole that let someone else make the decisions for me. I bought in to support the cause. Pure, and simple.
Why don't you sue Apple/iTunes while your at it too.
For what?
Now, can we move on?
For what?
This suit is what I'm comparing your statement to.
Needless to say I'm not going to finish an argument involving a tech war that is over. It's redundant.
The DRM thing is a cop out, Toshiba would have implemented it, if they had come up with it. They are just using the lack of a DRM, invented by the other guys as a means to say "Hey, we are the good guys consumers" Bullshit!
Pros for Blu-Ray: Size (lots more to come too!), Very scratch resistant, cooler name, cooler colour (literally, it is calming and red is associated with fire and blood), almost all manufacturers backing it
Cons: An extra DRM, which MOST consumers won't even know about. Sorry to tell you Frank, most people are clueless about DRM, they buy movies and watch them...that's it. Hell, most people wouldn't know how to back up movies if you did it for them.
90+% = Most people don't give a crap about DRM anyways. I buy everything from iTunes music wise, and I could give a crap if my CD has DRM on it. I'm not doing anything illegitimately with it anyway so what would I care for? 90% of people feel the same way. DRM in one form or another has been in existence for years, and nobody really cares that it's there because there isn't anything they do that changes the fact that they have what they want when they buy it. A Movie, a CD, a Video tape. It does everything they want it to.
Regardless, HD DRM was broken before the first Blu Ray player was ever shipped anyway. For those who want to backup a 25+GB disk the tools are online - go find them. There are not that many people that feel the need to do that with blu ray because they are durable as all hell anyway. AFAIAC this DRM BS is just whining.
AFAIAC this DRM BS is just whining.
Not at all.
Do you know what the suggested retail price, for example, the Pirates of the Caribbean 3 blu-ray is in the U.K.? £29.99. That's $60! For one movie! The region-coding DRM layer allows studios to continue to rip-off all markets outside the U.S.
In addition, whilst building a server-based collection of HD movies would currently eat up HDD space a bit too quickly, it's not going to be that long until multi-terabyte storage is reasonably priced. The idea of having all one's movies stored on a server and accessing them over the network is highly appealing. iTunes works great for music and a similar thing for movies would be great.
There's no doubt in my mind that the failure of the AppleTV is related to the DRM on DVDs and the fact that studios don't want them ripped - if iTunes had the ability to rip DVDs, and later (when HDD space allows) HD discs it would really help the AppleTV's cause.
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=808
Not at all.
Do you know what the suggested retail price, for example, the Pirates of the Caribbean 3 blu-ray is in the U.K.? £29.99. That's $60! For one movie! The region-coding DRM layer allows studios to continue to rip-off all markets outside the U.S.
In addition, whilst building a server-based collection of HD movies would currently eat up HDD space a bit too quickly, it's not going to be that long until multi-terabyte storage is reasonably priced. The idea of having all one's movies stored on a server and accessing them over the network is highly appealing. iTunes works great for music and a similar thing for movies would be great.
There's no doubt in my mind that the failure of the AppleTV is related to the DRM on DVDs and the fact that studios don't want them ripped - if iTunes had the ability to rip DVDs, and later (when HDD space allows) HD discs it would really help the AppleTV's cause.
And someone finally gets it!
The future is personal VOD. I can do it now with my AppleTV, network storage, and DVDs. I like the idea of sitting at my couch with the girlfriend, or a group of people, and surfing through all the movies to pick one out. It impresses the hell out of everyone, and I don't need to go to the shelf to name off everything, load the DVD player, wade through the crap FBI warning and menus. HD DVD had this going, in so much as no region coding and only AACS. For all current titles, I could start to build a VOD library using a mac mini and Front Row 2.0.
However, AACS hasn't been broken (let alone BD+). AACS has been circumvented for current titles because a Processing Key was obtained from current computer playing software. If the AACS-LA got smart, they would stop issuing keys to PowerDVD and WinDVD, and it would be months (maybe years) before another key was found from a hardware player that could be used.