And the earth is flat, and man will never be able to fly, and the moon is made of cheese, and every "new" invention has already been invented...
People have been making statements like yours forever, yet technology keeps improving.
We will DEFINITELY have better than 1080p in the average home in the not too distant future. Whether that means 5 years or 25 years is anyones guess, but it'll certainly happen.
This is an issue of human perceptual limits, not an issue of technical possibilities. Unless you're looking ahead to bio-engineering, and a time when we can buy better eyes to go along with better media.
I have a 70" HD display at home. I sit about 12 feet away from it. Before buying the TV, I calculated how big each individual pixel would be, measured in arc-minutes, as seen from my favorite viewing position. I think I remember getting something like 0.9 arc-seconds, which is just below the 1 arc-second limit of human visual acuity. This means that even with a big screen like 70", not only are static details finer than one can perceive, the difference between 1080i and 1080p is going to be barely perceptible as well.
Then again, just like the world of high-end audio has its supposed "golden ears" who make claims of perceptual acuity equivalent to being able to hear a mouse piss on a cotton ball while someone is running a jackhammer at the same time, there will no doubt be "golden eyes" who'll still complain that 2160p isn't "good enough" for their refined senses.
Future titles may use new keys, but those keys have to be built into the current hardware, or some master key to decrypt new keys stored on the disc, or else old Blu-Ray players wouldn't be able to play newer releases without getting a firmware update.
If anything, it should get harder for the disc makers to effectively hide new keys, not harder for hackers to find them.
I am not going to try and pretend to know everything about AACS, but there are some very smart people over at doom9. If you care, i'd suggest reading the thread I posted (and maybe a few of the other stickies in that forum), as you can learn a lot about how the keys work (there are many different keys, and different levels of keys), how revocation works, etc. Hell, AACS hasn't been fully used yet. They can still do things like sequence keys, multiple processing keys, etc without breaking a single player out there. AACS was developed much smarter than CSS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker
I agree with that, and would like to note that kupan787 is totally speculating. The Fact is the new keys are popping up in same place as the old keys. They get found, they are posted, and you go get them. How hard can it be to wait two hours after a movie is sold for someone to post the key for you? it's not even difficult to get it yourself.
onlooker, I am not "totally speculating". Read the threads, and see what others are saying. This was a wall that was being climbed for both HD DVD and Blu-Ray, neither were completely broken open as you have claimed here repeatedly.
And the comment about "not even difficult to get yourself" shows your complete non-understanding of the situation. I'd love to see you obtain a volume key, device key, or processing key.
Most of the digital remasters/restorations are done in 4k and when market/consumers are ready, the studios will be ready to go after your wallets once again. However, finding the need for the mass and trying to sell off the 2nd round of Higher Def upgrades may be something even more difficult. If you have not noticed, the mass still has not bought into the first round of HiDef upgrades, yet. So far, it's been all for the niche AV enthusiasts.... oh... and PS3 owners toy.
And the earth is flat, and man will never be able to fly, and the moon is made of cheese, and every "new" invention has already been invented...
People have been making statements like yours forever, yet technology keeps improving.
We will DEFINITELY have better than 1080p in the average home in the not too distant future. Whether that means 5 years or 25 years is anyones guess, but it'll certainly happen.
I like the way you totally ignored my example of high-resolution audio for evidence that once the limits of human perception are reached, most people will not buy into a technology just because it is technically superior. If you can't appreciate the extra resolution, what's the point?
Quote:
Originally Posted by shetline
Then again, just like the world of high-end audio has its supposed "golden ears" who make claims of perceptual acuity equivalent to being able to hear a mouse piss on a cotton ball while someone is running a jackhammer at the same time, there will no doubt be "golden eyes" who'll still complain that 2160p isn't "good enough" for their refined senses.
Indeed, but 2160p or whatever will never gain mainstream success, just as SACD and DVD-Audio have failed. As I said, higher than 1080p will remain in the realm of cinemas and niche high-end home cinema.
What would be nice is if the studios upped movie frame rates from 24 to 60 fps.
What would be nice is if the studios upped movie frame rates from 24 to 60 fps.
I'm not sure whether you will like the look of it. Every movie would look like a TV show with glossy showing. It will not look like a film anymore. But, I am sure some people would like it. You can actually do this on some of the HDTV's. Have you seen 120Hz Samsung LCD TV's?... If you mis-set the viewing mode, every film will look like a TV show in HiDef. I do like the clarity of HiDef, but I am not sure whether I'll like the glossy TV show type of showing for my movies....
I'm not sure whether you will like the look of it. Every movie would look like a TV show with glossy showing. It will not look like a film anymore. But, I am sure some people would like it. You can actually do this on some of the HDTV's. Have you seen 120Hz Samsung LCD TV's?... If you mis-set the viewing mode, every film will look like a TV show in HiDef. I do like the clarity of HiDef, but I am not sure whether I'll like the glossy TV show type of showing for my movies....
What TVs are doing in this case is interpolating between frames to try and smooth motion. They cannot magically create information and the technique has easily as many drawbacks as plus-points. You cannot deduce from what happens in this case what it would look like if 60 frames per second had originally been captured and stored on the disc.
I am not going to try and pretend to know everything about AACS, but there are some very smart people over at doom9. If you care, i'd suggest reading the thread I posted (and maybe a few of the other stickies in that forum), as you can learn a lot about how the keys work (there are many different keys, and different levels of keys), how revocation works, etc. Hell, AACS hasn't been fully used yet. They can still do things like sequence keys, multiple processing keys, etc without breaking a single player out there. AACS was developed much smarter than CSS.
I'm sure I have more to learn from that thread, but a quick skim -- and perhaps I got the wrong impression -- didn't leave me feeling there was gloom and doom over the breakability of the system.
The system may be very hard to crack from the outside looking in, but every single player out there has a complete copy of the complete decoding solution built into it. Eventually via a security leak in the distribution and reproduction of that solution, or via enough dedicated software and hardware hacking, and the stuff that's locked up inside the little epoxy resin packages that implement AACS will be released.
This is an issue of human perceptual limits, not an issue of technical possibilities. Unless you're looking ahead to bio-engineering, and a time when we can buy better eyes to go along with better media.
I have a 70" HD display at home. I sit about 12 feet away from it. Before buying the TV, I calculated how big each individual pixel would be, measured in arc-minutes, as seen from my favorite viewing position. I think I remember getting something like 0.9 arc-seconds, which is just below the 1 arc-second limit of human visual acuity. This means that even with a big screen like 70", not only are static details finer than one can perceive, the difference between 1080i and 1080p is going to be barely perceptible as well.
Then again, just like the world of high-end audio has its supposed "golden ears" who make claims of perceptual acuity equivalent to being able to hear a mouse piss on a cotton ball while someone is running a jackhammer at the same time, there will no doubt be "golden eyes" who'll still complain that 2160p isn't "good enough" for their refined senses.
Actually, it has been shown that humans can perceive lines smaller than 1 arc second. The classic example are power lines seen by aviators that are much finer than 1 arc second. For folks with front screen projectors, some folks can see "screen door" despite the interpixel gap being smaller than 1 arc second since they are composed of vertical and horizontal lines.
Also while 20-20 vision is the basis of many calculations but there are folks with better vision.
Finally...for a 70" HD display at 12 feet you are sitting half a foot behind the maximum allowed distance for SMPTE and a foot behind the maximum for THX theaters. Meaning that you are behind the back row of any SMPTE or THX theater. You are 2 and a half feet behind where NHK HDTV specs which would allow for a 30 degree horizontal field of view that provides immersion.
1080 is the MINIMUM resolution to approximate the movie theater experience at the home.
The REFERENCE distance for SMPTE is 3 screen heights. Which for you is 8 and a half feet. At that distance the pixels will be larger than 1 arc second with a 1080p display.
2160p would be great for home theater although even higher would STILL be nice as there's something about detail being present even if you can't resolve it that makes an image more lifelike. If you ever get a chance to see a Gigapxl display in person its very cool.
Great. BluRay wins. Disc drives manufacturers will spend less time incorporating dual support and focus on BluRay.
Actually, supporting HD DVD seems easy; in the latest combo players, it's almost exclusively Blu-Ray discs that have playback issues, and that's from a company who never made an HD DVD player prior to making a combo player. I hope nobody races out to buy a Blu-Ray player until they get around to finishing their format, and put some ethernet jacks on their players for the oft-needed compatibility updates.
Actually, it has been shown that humans can perceive lines smaller than 1 arc second. The classic example are power lines seen by aviators that are much finer than 1 arc second.
The planet Venus is smaller than one arc second too, and that doesn't make it invisible. What I'm talking about is perceiving detail. As long as one point of light is putting out the same amount of light as another point of light, you have no idea how big it they are comparatively if both are below one arc second in size. Two smaller points of light, each with half the brightness of some small single source, located right next to each other with less than arc second between, will look identical to the single source.
As for your power line example, a very skinny black power line against a light background would look identical to a fatter, not-quite-so-dark cable, so long as both remain below that arc-second threshold. When you capture an image of something like one of these power lines, or the planet Venus, as a pixel image, you don't need to capture sub-arc-second detail to reproduce the same level of detail your eye would gather from looking at the same scene.
Quote:
Also while 20-20 vision is the basis of many calculations but there are folks with better vision.
True, but that's mostly ability to focus at different distances effectively. I don't think there's a whole lot of variation in absolute detail perceived once an image is in focus, although some colorblind people do have a little bit more detail perception than average (due to having more rods and fewer cones in their retinas).
Quote:
Finally...for a 70" HD display at 12 feet you are sitting half a foot behind the maximum allowed distance for SMPTE and a foot behind the maximum for THX theaters. Meaning that you are behind the back row of any SMPTE or THX theater. You are 2 and a half feet behind where NHK HDTV specs which would allow for a 30 degree horizontal field of view that provides immersion.
Okay, I'll grant you that if you're trying to create an immersive experience 1080p isn't enough, and I suppose there will be some small market for creating immersive images at home. But I know very few people with TV screens as large as what I've got at home, and many people who sit as far away as I sit, but from much smaller screens. Are physical media, or internet movie services, ever likely to devote the enormous storage capacity/bandwidth needed to distribute something like 2160p movies, which only a very small portion of the population will have the proper set-up to be able to fully enjoy?
If the market for such movies would be similar in size to the current market for things like SACD, I doubt movie studios would be greatly motivated to release their movies in super high-def formats.
Actually, supporting HD DVD seems easy; in the latest combo players, it's almost exclusively Blu-Ray discs that have playback issues, and that's from a company who never made an HD DVD player prior to making a combo player. I hope nobody races out to buy a Blu-Ray player until they get around to finishing their format, and put some ethernet jacks on their players for the oft-needed compatibility updates.
I don't think Warner announcement confirms anything other than HDM market becoming another niche format. Most of the early adopters would most likely turn neutral if they weren't already, or will plan on becoming neutral. As for the people on the sideline would stay out or if they do buy into HDM, the HDM purchase will be very limited as they're not the enthusiasts and do not normally buy movies anyway.
This morning, I took a look at my HDM library so far and about 50% (about 40 titles) consist of Warner Bros, I was surprise they were so many and how active Warner had been in 2006 and 2007. However, I was thinking what other Warner HDM titles would I want to buy.... and there were not that much... perhaps Amadeous(hopefully releases before May 2008 on HD-DVD)...but I already have... 300, Matrix Trilogy, Batman Begins, Harry Potter Series, and etc.... I don't think Warner's list for 2008 is too prolific. We'll have to see what Warner has on their release schedule that is worth a Blu-Ray player purchase for me.
All in all... with or without Warner.... The HDM optical disc format war continues.... It would be interesting to see what Toshiba has to say. As long as Toshiba, Universal, and Paramount stays committed to HD-DVD, play ball!...
Maybe these companies can now stop flogging the shit out of each other and bleeding money. Anyone got a reasonable estimate of how much this has cost both Toshiba and Sony?
Most of this is (arguably) at Microsoft's instigation too with their bribes to Dreamworks that kept the battle raging longer than it had to.
Lets face it, the writing has been on the wall for HD DVD for a while now, they had managed to keep their heads above water, but I think the big blu shark has finally mangled them.
Maybe these companies can now stop flogging the shit out of each other and bleeding money. Anyone got a reasonable estimate of how much this has cost both Toshiba and Sony?
Most of this is (arguably) at Microsoft's instigation too with their bribes to Dreamworks that kept the battle raging longer than it had to.
Lets face it, the writing has been on the wall for HD DVD for a while now, they had managed to keep their heads above water, but I think the big blu shark has finally mangled them.
There is no mention of payments by any news agency, only rumors on websites, but it's all just speculation based on the paramount sell out. AFAI can tell there was no payments. Just sounds like smart business to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tech.yahoo.com
Today Warner Bros. became the latest (and final) studio to pick a side in the high-def DVD battle. Until now, it was the only major studio left that was producing discs using both HD DVD and Blu-ray technology.
Warner Home Entertainment president Kevin Tsujihara spoke to a handful of us tech bloggers today to further explain why WB made the decision it did.
In a nutshell, Tsujihara said that WB had been "monitoring the [high-def] situation closely" and felt it was time to pick a side. The big problem? "Consumer confusion was beginning to happen even with standard-definition DVD," he said. "Both formats were having an impact that caused consumers to say, let's wait a bit to buy anything, even a standard-definition DVD. We were starting to see the worst of all worlds: No one was buying high-def and not buying standard-def either."
The argument that confusion between HD DVD and Blu-ray was causing people not to buy either high-def format has been with us for a while, but this is the first time I've heard anyone make the connection to declining regular DVD sales. It makes sense, though. If you, as a consumer, feel a (real) move to a new standard is imminent, you're not going to buy the old one. Industry-wide, total DVD sales fell 4.5 percent last year, a huge decline that has some insiders nervous.
Tsujihara said that, not including WB's blockbuster "Planet Earth" release, the company had already been selling 60 percent of its high-def titles in Blu-ray format in the U.S. But that figure was 70-plus percent in Europe and 90-plus percent in Japan.
In addressing the oft-rumored "marketing compensation" paid to studios for switching high-def sides (aka payola), Tsujihara laughed and joked that he had heard these rumors too and was anxious to see such a check. "It's not a bidding war," he said. "It's all about what's best strategically for us." That said, he curiously didn't outright state that no payment had been received by Warner for dumping HD DVD. Not that it matters, I suppose. All's fair in love and home video.
I don't think Warner announcement confirms anything other than HDM market becoming another niche format. Most of the early adopters would most likely turn neutral if they weren't already, or will plan on becoming neutral. As for the people on the sideline would stay out or if they do buy into HDM, the HDM purchase will be very limited as they're not the enthusiasts and do not normally buy movies anyway.
This morning, I took a look at my HDM library so far and about 50% (about 40 titles) consist of Warner Bros, I was surprise they were so many and how active Warner had been in 2006 and 2007. However, I was thinking what other Warner HDM titles would I want to buy.... and there were not that much... perhaps Amadeous(hopefully releases before May 2008 on HD-DVD)...but I already have... 300, Matrix Trilogy, Batman Begins, Harry Potter Series, and etc.... I don't think Warner's list for 2008 is too prolific. We'll have to see what Warner has on their release schedule that is worth a Blu-Ray player purchase for me.
All in all... with or without Warner.... The HDM optical disc format war continues.... It would be interesting to see what Toshiba has to say. As long as Toshiba, Universal, and Paramount stays committed to HD-DVD, play ball!...
Delusional until the end I see...oh wait it is the end, you just are in denial!
You've seriously got to be kidding yourself. At least Murch can admirably admit that this marks the end of the format war (although from his last post it seems he's a bit bitter ), but here you simply confirm fanatacism. Moreover, you make no sense in that you claim that Warner's decision confirms that HDM will become a niche format, when the complete opposite would confirm that HDM would become a niche format--Warner choosing HD DVD.
Warner did the right thing, and I totally agree with what Ron Sanders from WB said...
"There is absolutely no incentive from either side that would have changed the decision we made based on what we were seeing in the consumer data. The worldwide DVD business is about $40 billion. Any incentives we might have been offered would have paled next to the lost profits from that business if we get this one wrong."
...Furthermore, as you can see from above, the made the right decision based on the consumer, too bad the same can't be said for Paramount. What this also confirms is how wrong you are still in terms of most enthusiasts being neutral. If most were this way as you claim, HD DVD would have come close you'd think for all of 2007, wouldn't you? Instead, they were shutout by the almighty Blu-ray. Look for 2008 to simply be a blood bath for HD DVD,...that is the reality, you need to come to grips with that obviously.
Outspoken director Michael Bay has once again posted his views on the format war, discussing how he feels about the recent announcement that Warner Brothers would exclusively support Blu-ray. After claiming HD DVD would "die a slow death", he gave hope to his fans that his recent blockbuster film 'Transformers' would one day be on Blu-ray.
"Well another studio down. Maybe I was right? Blu ray is just better. HD will die a slow death. It's what I predicted a year ago. Now with Warner's down for the count with Blu Ray. That makes it easier for Wal-Mart to push Blu Ray. And whatever Wal-Mart pushes - wins. Hd better start giving out those $120 million dollars checks to stay alive. Maybe they can give me some so I can give it to my Make-A-Wish charity, just to shut me up. Have faith people Transformers will come out in Blu-ray one day!"
With regards to the speculated payout by Microsoft to Dreamworks to go HD DVD.
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker
There is no mention of payments by any news agency, only rumors on websites, but it's all just speculation based on the paramount sell out. AFAI can tell there was no payments. Just sounds like smart business to me.
Mate, if thats smart business then show me not so smart business...
Comments
And the earth is flat, and man will never be able to fly, and the moon is made of cheese, and every "new" invention has already been invented...
People have been making statements like yours forever, yet technology keeps improving.
We will DEFINITELY have better than 1080p in the average home in the not too distant future. Whether that means 5 years or 25 years is anyones guess, but it'll certainly happen.
This is an issue of human perceptual limits, not an issue of technical possibilities. Unless you're looking ahead to bio-engineering, and a time when we can buy better eyes to go along with better media.
I have a 70" HD display at home. I sit about 12 feet away from it. Before buying the TV, I calculated how big each individual pixel would be, measured in arc-minutes, as seen from my favorite viewing position. I think I remember getting something like 0.9 arc-seconds, which is just below the 1 arc-second limit of human visual acuity. This means that even with a big screen like 70", not only are static details finer than one can perceive, the difference between 1080i and 1080p is going to be barely perceptible as well.
Then again, just like the world of high-end audio has its supposed "golden ears" who make claims of perceptual acuity equivalent to being able to hear a mouse piss on a cotton ball while someone is running a jackhammer at the same time, there will no doubt be "golden eyes" who'll still complain that 2160p isn't "good enough" for their refined senses.
Future titles may use new keys, but those keys have to be built into the current hardware, or some master key to decrypt new keys stored on the disc, or else old Blu-Ray players wouldn't be able to play newer releases without getting a firmware update.
If anything, it should get harder for the disc makers to effectively hide new keys, not harder for hackers to find them.
I am not going to try and pretend to know everything about AACS, but there are some very smart people over at doom9. If you care, i'd suggest reading the thread I posted (and maybe a few of the other stickies in that forum), as you can learn a lot about how the keys work (there are many different keys, and different levels of keys), how revocation works, etc. Hell, AACS hasn't been fully used yet. They can still do things like sequence keys, multiple processing keys, etc without breaking a single player out there. AACS was developed much smarter than CSS.
I agree with that, and would like to note that kupan787 is totally speculating. The Fact is the new keys are popping up in same place as the old keys. They get found, they are posted, and you go get them. How hard can it be to wait two hours after a movie is sold for someone to post the key for you? it's not even difficult to get it yourself.
onlooker, I am not "totally speculating". Read the threads, and see what others are saying. This was a wall that was being climbed for both HD DVD and Blu-Ray, neither were completely broken open as you have claimed here repeatedly.
And the comment about "not even difficult to get yourself" shows your complete non-understanding of the situation. I'd love to see you obtain a volume key, device key, or processing key.
And the earth is flat, and man will never be able to fly, and the moon is made of cheese, and every "new" invention has already been invented...
People have been making statements like yours forever, yet technology keeps improving.
We will DEFINITELY have better than 1080p in the average home in the not too distant future. Whether that means 5 years or 25 years is anyones guess, but it'll certainly happen.
I like the way you totally ignored my example of high-resolution audio for evidence that once the limits of human perception are reached, most people will not buy into a technology just because it is technically superior. If you can't appreciate the extra resolution, what's the point?
Then again, just like the world of high-end audio has its supposed "golden ears" who make claims of perceptual acuity equivalent to being able to hear a mouse piss on a cotton ball while someone is running a jackhammer at the same time, there will no doubt be "golden eyes" who'll still complain that 2160p isn't "good enough" for their refined senses.
Indeed, but 2160p or whatever will never gain mainstream success, just as SACD and DVD-Audio have failed. As I said, higher than 1080p will remain in the realm of cinemas and niche high-end home cinema.
What would be nice is if the studios upped movie frame rates from 24 to 60 fps.
What would be nice is if the studios upped movie frame rates from 24 to 60 fps.
I'm not sure whether you will like the look of it. Every movie would look like a TV show with glossy showing. It will not look like a film anymore. But, I am sure some people would like it. You can actually do this on some of the HDTV's. Have you seen 120Hz Samsung LCD TV's?... If you mis-set the viewing mode, every film will look like a TV show in HiDef. I do like the clarity of HiDef, but I am not sure whether I'll like the glossy TV show type of showing for my movies....
I'm not sure whether you will like the look of it. Every movie would look like a TV show with glossy showing. It will not look like a film anymore. But, I am sure some people would like it. You can actually do this on some of the HDTV's. Have you seen 120Hz Samsung LCD TV's?... If you mis-set the viewing mode, every film will look like a TV show in HiDef. I do like the clarity of HiDef, but I am not sure whether I'll like the glossy TV show type of showing for my movies....
What TVs are doing in this case is interpolating between frames to try and smooth motion. They cannot magically create information and the technique has easily as many drawbacks as plus-points. You cannot deduce from what happens in this case what it would look like if 60 frames per second had originally been captured and stored on the disc.
I am not going to try and pretend to know everything about AACS, but there are some very smart people over at doom9. If you care, i'd suggest reading the thread I posted (and maybe a few of the other stickies in that forum), as you can learn a lot about how the keys work (there are many different keys, and different levels of keys), how revocation works, etc. Hell, AACS hasn't been fully used yet. They can still do things like sequence keys, multiple processing keys, etc without breaking a single player out there. AACS was developed much smarter than CSS.
I'm sure I have more to learn from that thread, but a quick skim -- and perhaps I got the wrong impression -- didn't leave me feeling there was gloom and doom over the breakability of the system.
The system may be very hard to crack from the outside looking in, but every single player out there has a complete copy of the complete decoding solution built into it. Eventually via a security leak in the distribution and reproduction of that solution, or via enough dedicated software and hardware hacking, and the stuff that's locked up inside the little epoxy resin packages that implement AACS will be released.
This is an issue of human perceptual limits, not an issue of technical possibilities. Unless you're looking ahead to bio-engineering, and a time when we can buy better eyes to go along with better media.
I have a 70" HD display at home. I sit about 12 feet away from it. Before buying the TV, I calculated how big each individual pixel would be, measured in arc-minutes, as seen from my favorite viewing position. I think I remember getting something like 0.9 arc-seconds, which is just below the 1 arc-second limit of human visual acuity. This means that even with a big screen like 70", not only are static details finer than one can perceive, the difference between 1080i and 1080p is going to be barely perceptible as well.
Then again, just like the world of high-end audio has its supposed "golden ears" who make claims of perceptual acuity equivalent to being able to hear a mouse piss on a cotton ball while someone is running a jackhammer at the same time, there will no doubt be "golden eyes" who'll still complain that 2160p isn't "good enough" for their refined senses.
Actually, it has been shown that humans can perceive lines smaller than 1 arc second. The classic example are power lines seen by aviators that are much finer than 1 arc second. For folks with front screen projectors, some folks can see "screen door" despite the interpixel gap being smaller than 1 arc second since they are composed of vertical and horizontal lines.
Also while 20-20 vision is the basis of many calculations but there are folks with better vision.
Finally...for a 70" HD display at 12 feet you are sitting half a foot behind the maximum allowed distance for SMPTE and a foot behind the maximum for THX theaters. Meaning that you are behind the back row of any SMPTE or THX theater. You are 2 and a half feet behind where NHK HDTV specs which would allow for a 30 degree horizontal field of view that provides immersion.
1080 is the MINIMUM resolution to approximate the movie theater experience at the home.
The REFERENCE distance for SMPTE is 3 screen heights. Which for you is 8 and a half feet. At that distance the pixels will be larger than 1 arc second with a 1080p display.
2160p would be great for home theater although even higher would STILL be nice as there's something about detail being present even if you can't resolve it that makes an image more lifelike. If you ever get a chance to see a Gigapxl display in person its very cool.
http://www.gigapxl.org/
Yes, Virginia...there IS science behind the desire for better than 1080p resolution.
Great. BluRay wins. Disc drives manufacturers will spend less time incorporating dual support and focus on BluRay.
Actually, supporting HD DVD seems easy; in the latest combo players, it's almost exclusively Blu-Ray discs that have playback issues, and that's from a company who never made an HD DVD player prior to making a combo player. I hope nobody races out to buy a Blu-Ray player until they get around to finishing their format, and put some ethernet jacks on their players for the oft-needed compatibility updates.
Actually, it has been shown that humans can perceive lines smaller than 1 arc second. The classic example are power lines seen by aviators that are much finer than 1 arc second.
The planet Venus is smaller than one arc second too, and that doesn't make it invisible. What I'm talking about is perceiving detail. As long as one point of light is putting out the same amount of light as another point of light, you have no idea how big it they are comparatively if both are below one arc second in size. Two smaller points of light, each with half the brightness of some small single source, located right next to each other with less than arc second between, will look identical to the single source.
As for your power line example, a very skinny black power line against a light background would look identical to a fatter, not-quite-so-dark cable, so long as both remain below that arc-second threshold. When you capture an image of something like one of these power lines, or the planet Venus, as a pixel image, you don't need to capture sub-arc-second detail to reproduce the same level of detail your eye would gather from looking at the same scene.
Also while 20-20 vision is the basis of many calculations but there are folks with better vision.
True, but that's mostly ability to focus at different distances effectively. I don't think there's a whole lot of variation in absolute detail perceived once an image is in focus, although some colorblind people do have a little bit more detail perception than average (due to having more rods and fewer cones in their retinas).
Finally...for a 70" HD display at 12 feet you are sitting half a foot behind the maximum allowed distance for SMPTE and a foot behind the maximum for THX theaters. Meaning that you are behind the back row of any SMPTE or THX theater. You are 2 and a half feet behind where NHK HDTV specs which would allow for a 30 degree horizontal field of view that provides immersion.
Okay, I'll grant you that if you're trying to create an immersive experience 1080p isn't enough, and I suppose there will be some small market for creating immersive images at home. But I know very few people with TV screens as large as what I've got at home, and many people who sit as far away as I sit, but from much smaller screens. Are physical media, or internet movie services, ever likely to devote the enormous storage capacity/bandwidth needed to distribute something like 2160p movies, which only a very small portion of the population will have the proper set-up to be able to fully enjoy?
If the market for such movies would be similar in size to the current market for things like SACD, I doubt movie studios would be greatly motivated to release their movies in super high-def formats.
Actually, supporting HD DVD seems easy; in the latest combo players, it's almost exclusively Blu-Ray discs that have playback issues, and that's from a company who never made an HD DVD player prior to making a combo player. I hope nobody races out to buy a Blu-Ray player until they get around to finishing their format, and put some ethernet jacks on their players for the oft-needed compatibility updates.
I don't think Warner announcement confirms anything other than HDM market becoming another niche format. Most of the early adopters would most likely turn neutral if they weren't already, or will plan on becoming neutral. As for the people on the sideline would stay out or if they do buy into HDM, the HDM purchase will be very limited as they're not the enthusiasts and do not normally buy movies anyway.
This morning, I took a look at my HDM library so far and about 50% (about 40 titles) consist of Warner Bros, I was surprise they were so many and how active Warner had been in 2006 and 2007. However, I was thinking what other Warner HDM titles would I want to buy.... and there were not that much... perhaps Amadeous(hopefully releases before May 2008 on HD-DVD)...but I already have... 300, Matrix Trilogy, Batman Begins, Harry Potter Series, and etc.... I don't think Warner's list for 2008 is too prolific. We'll have to see what Warner has on their release schedule that is worth a Blu-Ray player purchase for me.
All in all... with or without Warner.... The HDM optical disc format war continues.... It would be interesting to see what Toshiba has to say. As long as Toshiba, Universal, and Paramount stays committed to HD-DVD, play ball!...
And I'm very happy.
Maybe these companies can now stop flogging the shit out of each other and bleeding money. Anyone got a reasonable estimate of how much this has cost both Toshiba and Sony?
Most of this is (arguably) at Microsoft's instigation too with their bribes to Dreamworks that kept the battle raging longer than it had to.
Lets face it, the writing has been on the wall for HD DVD for a while now, they had managed to keep their heads above water, but I think the big blu shark has finally mangled them.
Bit behind the times here, just read the news.
And I'm very happy.
Maybe these companies can now stop flogging the shit out of each other and bleeding money. Anyone got a reasonable estimate of how much this has cost both Toshiba and Sony?
Most of this is (arguably) at Microsoft's instigation too with their bribes to Dreamworks that kept the battle raging longer than it had to.
Lets face it, the writing has been on the wall for HD DVD for a while now, they had managed to keep their heads above water, but I think the big blu shark has finally mangled them.
There is no mention of payments by any news agency, only rumors on websites, but it's all just speculation based on the paramount sell out. AFAI can tell there was no payments. Just sounds like smart business to me.
Today Warner Bros. became the latest (and final) studio to pick a side in the high-def DVD battle. Until now, it was the only major studio left that was producing discs using both HD DVD and Blu-ray technology.
Warner Home Entertainment president Kevin Tsujihara spoke to a handful of us tech bloggers today to further explain why WB made the decision it did.
In a nutshell, Tsujihara said that WB had been "monitoring the [high-def] situation closely" and felt it was time to pick a side. The big problem? "Consumer confusion was beginning to happen even with standard-definition DVD," he said. "Both formats were having an impact that caused consumers to say, let's wait a bit to buy anything, even a standard-definition DVD. We were starting to see the worst of all worlds: No one was buying high-def and not buying standard-def either."
The argument that confusion between HD DVD and Blu-ray was causing people not to buy either high-def format has been with us for a while, but this is the first time I've heard anyone make the connection to declining regular DVD sales. It makes sense, though. If you, as a consumer, feel a (real) move to a new standard is imminent, you're not going to buy the old one. Industry-wide, total DVD sales fell 4.5 percent last year, a huge decline that has some insiders nervous.
Tsujihara said that, not including WB's blockbuster "Planet Earth" release, the company had already been selling 60 percent of its high-def titles in Blu-ray format in the U.S. But that figure was 70-plus percent in Europe and 90-plus percent in Japan.
In addressing the oft-rumored "marketing compensation" paid to studios for switching high-def sides (aka payola), Tsujihara laughed and joked that he had heard these rumors too and was anxious to see such a check. "It's not a bidding war," he said. "It's all about what's best strategically for us." That said, he curiously didn't outright state that no payment had been received by Warner for dumping HD DVD. Not that it matters, I suppose. All's fair in love and home video.
I don't think Warner announcement confirms anything other than HDM market becoming another niche format. Most of the early adopters would most likely turn neutral if they weren't already, or will plan on becoming neutral. As for the people on the sideline would stay out or if they do buy into HDM, the HDM purchase will be very limited as they're not the enthusiasts and do not normally buy movies anyway.
This morning, I took a look at my HDM library so far and about 50% (about 40 titles) consist of Warner Bros, I was surprise they were so many and how active Warner had been in 2006 and 2007. However, I was thinking what other Warner HDM titles would I want to buy.... and there were not that much... perhaps Amadeous(hopefully releases before May 2008 on HD-DVD)...but I already have... 300, Matrix Trilogy, Batman Begins, Harry Potter Series, and etc.... I don't think Warner's list for 2008 is too prolific. We'll have to see what Warner has on their release schedule that is worth a Blu-Ray player purchase for me.
All in all... with or without Warner.... The HDM optical disc format war continues.... It would be interesting to see what Toshiba has to say. As long as Toshiba, Universal, and Paramount stays committed to HD-DVD, play ball!...
Delusional until the end I see...oh wait it is the end, you just are in denial!
You've seriously got to be kidding yourself. At least Murch can admirably admit that this marks the end of the format war (although from his last post it seems he's a bit bitter
Warner did the right thing, and I totally agree with what Ron Sanders from WB said...
"There is absolutely no incentive from either side that would have changed the decision we made based on what we were seeing in the consumer data. The worldwide DVD business is about $40 billion. Any incentives we might have been offered would have paled next to the lost profits from that business if we get this one wrong."
...Furthermore, as you can see from above, the made the right decision based on the consumer, too bad the same can't be said for Paramount. What this also confirms is how wrong you are still in terms of most enthusiasts being neutral. If most were this way as you claim, HD DVD would have come close you'd think for all of 2007, wouldn't you? Instead, they were shutout by the almighty Blu-ray. Look for 2008 to simply be a blood bath for HD DVD,...that is the reality, you need to come to grips with that obviously.
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=807
Outspoken director Michael Bay has once again posted his views on the format war, discussing how he feels about the recent announcement that Warner Brothers would exclusively support Blu-ray. After claiming HD DVD would "die a slow death", he gave hope to his fans that his recent blockbuster film 'Transformers' would one day be on Blu-ray.
"Well another studio down. Maybe I was right? Blu ray is just better. HD will die a slow death. It's what I predicted a year ago. Now with Warner's down for the count with Blu Ray. That makes it easier for Wal-Mart to push Blu Ray. And whatever Wal-Mart pushes - wins. Hd better start giving out those $120 million dollars checks to stay alive. Maybe they can give me some so I can give it to my Make-A-Wish charity, just to shut me up. Have faith people Transformers will come out in Blu-ray one day!"
Michael Bay...
And whatever Wal-Mart pushes - wins.
I said this in the 2006 thread and many Blu-ray backers swiftly dismissed it... Just sayin.
Hypocrisy comes easier to the Blu-Rayers.
Not quite as easy as the word "hypocrisy" escapes your fingertips...
Proven wrong: Hypocrite
Things not going your way: Hypocrisy
Warner chooses Blu-ray because of the consumer: All "Blu-Rayers" are hypocrites.
Warner chooses Blu-ray because of the consumer...
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!! That's a good one.
Yeah, the consumer is foremost in the minds of these large media companies when they make strategic decisions.
There is no mention of payments by any news agency, only rumors on websites, but it's all just speculation based on the paramount sell out. AFAI can tell there was no payments. Just sounds like smart business to me.
Mate, if thats smart business then show me not so smart business...