Delusional until the end I see...oh wait it is the end, you just are in denial!
You've seriously got to be kidding yourself. At least Murch can admirably admit that this marks the end of the format war (although from his last post it seems he's a bit bitter ), but here you simply confirm fanatacism. Moreover, you make no sense in that you claim that Warner's decision confirms that HDM will become a niche format, when the complete opposite would confirm that HDM would become a niche format--Warner choosing HD DVD.
Warner did the right thing, and I totally agree with what Ron Sanders from WB said...
"There is absolutely no incentive from either side that would have changed the decision we made based on what we were seeing in the consumer data. The worldwide DVD business is about $40 billion. Any incentives we might have been offered would have paled next to the lost profits from that business if we get this one wrong."
...Furthermore, as you can see from above, the made the right decision based on the consumer, too bad the same can't be said for Paramount. What this also confirms is how wrong you are still in terms of most enthusiasts being neutral. If most were this way as you claim, HD DVD would have come close you'd think for all of 2007, wouldn't you? Instead, they were shutout by the almighty Blu-ray. Look for 2008 to simply be a blood bath for HD DVD,...that is the reality, you need to come to grips with that obviously.
You obviously fail to see beyond Sony vs. Toshiba optical disc format war. It's about HDM vs. SDM. If Warner's siding with Blu-Ray is ending the hidef optical disc format war, would such event will make the mass go out and buy a blu-ray player?. Even you still have yet to purchase a Blu-Ray player of any kind. There are too many people like you out there and thinking the optical disc format war is over because Warner will go Blu-Ray exclusive in Summer of 2008. I bet it won't end the Hidef optical format war, as long as Toshiba, Universal, and Paramount keep supporting HD-DVD. This optical hidef format war will end when the mass start buying into HDM's, but we're not there yet even with the support of PS3 gamers. If PS3's were selling like the Wii, then perhaps Blu-Ray would have a better chance.
BTW, aren't you concerned about your supporting HDM optical format user base is mostly consist of PS3 owners?... This alone has a niche potential, like the PSP format that just never took off, not too long ago. The PSP user base is over 10 million in the US and it still is a dead media format, but PS3 barely sold 3.5 million in the states. I hope this goes somewhere this time.
Well, for me, it really does not matter much, since I'm going optical disc free format on a media server. My HDM's are not going anywhere, I'm sure there will be cheap combo drives available for PC for many years to come.
I'll buy a Blu-ray player for the big titles but my desire to collect movies is done.
So, you've given up on being a "TRUE" movie fan, apparently because your disc format of choice is looking pretty screwed. what happened to all the posturing you did with "it's about the movies, not the format"
If you ARE done, then streaming media is no better advantage, as you say you are "done", if you see it as the future for you, then you are NOT "done"
Either way you sound like you still need to posture some more. With the bad choice you made in regard to HD-DVD, why would anyone listen to you any more?
With regards to the speculated payout by Microsoft to Dreamworks to go HD DVD.
The Microsoft/Toshiba pay off to Paramount was not speculation. It is a fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules
Mate, if thats smart business then show me not so smart business...
It's warner that is getting speculated about, without proof, and from all quotes, and angles I've seen on the matter it looks like they did it without any payment because it was smart business.
I'm disguested with all of these studios. I see what Apple has to deal with when trying to negotiate deals with snakes.
Who are you kidding? You would have been dancing in the streets had Warner gone red. And instead of calling the studios snakes, you would have been defending Warner's business decision with the standard shill talking points, regardless of how much Toshiba/Microsoft paid for their loyalty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison
These formats were sold as the next big thing yet all I'm seeing are pumped up DVDs. Even the best menus and interactivity to me pale to the possibility of playing content off a Media Server.
I bought into HDM not for funky PIP or interactivity, but for high quality video and audio presentation. It's as simple as that. If I want interactivity, then I will log into the computer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison
In 5 years downloads will overtake optical HDM sales. This will be caused by faster broadband options across the Globe and better compression methods hitting the market that will drop a 720p movie down to under 4Gb.
God let's hope not. I know Microsoft has shifted its shill talking points to digital downloads, but the world's IT architecture is not even remotely close to being ready for prime time.
Yah seriously. For all the posturing about how childish BR supporters were many HD-DVD folks are doing a good impression of an 8 year old that doesn't get their way.
Quote:
God let's hope not. I know Microsoft has shifted its shill talking points to digital downloads, but the world's IT architecture is not even remotely close to being ready for prime time.
Actually, I think 720p should be sufficient for many folks near term...which might sound a bit odd given my comments to Shetline above. Many if not most folks DO sit far enough away that the resolution difference is fairly small. Both Apple and MS have benefitted from the HD format war since it decreases the window for hard media as a form factor.
Every month sees more FTTP and FTTC deployments in the US and we're often behind other countries in terms of bandwidth deployments. WiMAX might actually see a wide scale deployment once this decade.
Average TV sizes are still fairly small due to cost but I expect that they will continue to increase in size. As they do, folks will sit closer both as a function of room size and comfort...the smaller the TV the farther you want to sit (in comparison to screen height) for some reason.
So widespread digital downloads are not out of the picture for the mid term (3-5 years)...assuming you don't count digital PPV or IPTV services as part of "digital download". Because those are already deployed.
That said, I don't believe that BR will become niche if the format war does end soon. Warner's switch signals BR's eventual victory but HD-DVD could continue to make the war linger a little. There is a window for adoption and its still open for HDM for at least another Christmas. HD-DVD needs to be dead vs undead before then.
The 2008 Christmas will have both cheaper players and HDTVs with the end of analog TVs on the horizon.
Another key factor is that BR looks a lot better out of the box over HDMI than most current DVD players that are, if they are lucky, connected via SVideo. The number of folks correctly using a upconverting DVD player is IMHO small given most homes I've been to that have largish HDTVs. I see composite connections a lot when I peek in back and just have to shake my head.
Another key factor is that BR looks a lot better out of the box over HDMI than most current DVD players that are, if they are lucky, connected via SVideo. The number of folks correctly using a upconverting DVD player is IMHO small given most homes I've been to that have largish HDTVs. I see composite connections a lot when I peek in back and just have to shake my head.
In red I have no idea what your trying to say, but most (I think all) up-converting DVD players don't up-convert unless you use the HDMI connection port. I know mine doesn't.
In red I have no idea what your trying to say, but most (I think all) up-converting DVD players don't up-convert unless you use the HDMI connection port. I know mine doesn't.
He means that most people probably have a DVD player connected over a crappy connection (S-Video or composite), so an upgrade to Blu-ray might be a bigger leap than you might think.
Not if they own plasma or lcd tvs. Come on, dvd players that upconvert and come with HDMI will cost you less than $100! I got one free with my tv. Lots of stores are giving away upconverting dvd players with plasma tv purchases.
Not if they own plasma or lcd tvs. Come on, dvd players that upconvert and come with HDMI will cost you less than $100! I got one free with my tv. Lots of stores are giving away upconverting dvd players with plasma tv purchases.
And they make regular dvds look GREAT.
The newer HDTV's actually do a better job upconverting than the cheaper upconverting dvd players. This is worth trying for those having issues with macro-blocking.
Looks like this thread isn't that long for this world. With many people calling the format war over, there can't be a "versus" if there's only one format. Besides, once Apple releases Macs with Blu-ray drives built in, it won't be "Future Hardware" anymore.
He means that most people probably have a DVD player connected over a crappy connection (S-Video or composite), so an upgrade to Blu-ray might be a bigger leap than you might think.
Exactly. For whatever reason they did not get a new DVD player when they bought their TVs and are using the same setups as before...and very very few used the component outs...and few have their DVD players in anamorphic mode.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac
The newer HDTV's actually do a better job upconverting than the cheaper upconverting dvd players. This is worth trying for those having issues with macro-blocking.
Yah...but I dunno that they bother over any other input than component and HDMI...
A lot of folks have been waiting for the "war" to be over. You read the tech articles in mainstream press and they've all pretty much said "wait until the war is over". That certainly didn't help adoption rates and folks that might have bought a HD player of some kind when they bought their HDTV didn't. And folks aren't likely to buy a new DVD player (upconverting or otherwise) with a victor waiting in the wings.
For folks that got a free upconverting DVD player with their TV purchase, great...everyone else is watching so-so DVD movies and thinking bitstarved HD over cable or sat is as good as HD gets.
I think there's a bit of pent up demand for HDM as the format war ends. All those folks that said "WAIT!" will now say "GO!".
Universal has to be examining their business plan. Now that the experts in the media are calling the format war over it's a safe bet that HD player sales will dry up. HD disc's roughly 40% market share on a good week should shrink considerably over the course of the year to perhaps a 20% or less level. Universal has to decide whether they want to be a big fish in a drying up market or tap into the larger portion of the HDM market. Plus, with all their HD only titles, they're sitting on a potential bonanza releasing those to the expanding BD market. At least, this scenario makes sense to me but truthfully, what in this whole HDM mess has ever made sense?
One has to feel a little sorry for Paramount, well only a very, very little.
To me Warner's announce all but spells the death of combo players as who needs them.
Who are you kidding? You would have been dancing in the streets had Warner gone red. And instead of calling the studios snakes, you would have been defending Warner's business decision with the standard shill talking points, regardless of how much Toshiba/Microsoft paid for their loyalty.
I bought into HDM not for funky PIP or interactivity, but for high quality video and audio presentation. It's as simple as that. If I want interactivity, then I will log into the computer.
God let's hope not. I know Microsoft has shifted its shill talking points to digital downloads, but the world's IT architecture is not even remotely close to being ready for prime time.
Universal has to be examining their business plan. Now that the experts in the media are calling the format war over it's a safe bet that HD player sales will dry up. HD disc's roughly 40% market share on a good week should shrink considerably over the course of the year to perhaps a 20% or less level. Universal has to decide whether they want to be a big fish in a drying up market or tap into the larger portion of the HDM market. Plus, with all their HD only titles, they're sitting on a potential bonanza releasing those to the expanding BD market. At least, this scenario makes sense to me but truthfully, what in this whole HDM mess has ever made sense?
One has to feel a little sorry for Paramount, well only a very, very little.
To me Warner's announce all but spells the death of combo players as who needs them.
Well... none of the studios really need to pick a HDM market in a very niche pot. The DVD market is big enough of a pond where 5% of DVD market is still greater than 100% of the HDM market.
Business as usual, I'd say, even without the HDM market altogether.
Comments
Delusional until the end I see...oh wait it is the end, you just are in denial!
You've seriously got to be kidding yourself. At least Murch can admirably admit that this marks the end of the format war (although from his last post it seems he's a bit bitter
Warner did the right thing, and I totally agree with what Ron Sanders from WB said...
"There is absolutely no incentive from either side that would have changed the decision we made based on what we were seeing in the consumer data. The worldwide DVD business is about $40 billion. Any incentives we might have been offered would have paled next to the lost profits from that business if we get this one wrong."
...Furthermore, as you can see from above, the made the right decision based on the consumer, too bad the same can't be said for Paramount. What this also confirms is how wrong you are still in terms of most enthusiasts being neutral. If most were this way as you claim, HD DVD would have come close you'd think for all of 2007, wouldn't you? Instead, they were shutout by the almighty Blu-ray. Look for 2008 to simply be a blood bath for HD DVD,...that is the reality, you need to come to grips with that obviously.
You obviously fail to see beyond Sony vs. Toshiba optical disc format war. It's about HDM vs. SDM. If Warner's siding with Blu-Ray is ending the hidef optical disc format war, would such event will make the mass go out and buy a blu-ray player?. Even you still have yet to purchase a Blu-Ray player of any kind. There are too many people like you out there and thinking the optical disc format war is over because Warner will go Blu-Ray exclusive in Summer of 2008. I bet it won't end the Hidef optical format war, as long as Toshiba, Universal, and Paramount keep supporting HD-DVD. This optical hidef format war will end when the mass start buying into HDM's, but we're not there yet even with the support of PS3 gamers. If PS3's were selling like the Wii, then perhaps Blu-Ray would have a better chance.
BTW, aren't you concerned about your supporting HDM optical format user base is mostly consist of PS3 owners?... This alone has a niche potential, like the PSP format that just never took off, not too long ago. The PSP user base is over 10 million in the US and it still is a dead media format, but PS3 barely sold 3.5 million in the states. I hope this goes somewhere this time.
Well, for me, it really does not matter much, since I'm going optical disc free format on a media server. My HDM's are not going anywhere, I'm sure there will be cheap combo drives available for PC for many years to come.
I'm done with this round of media folks.
I'll buy a Blu-ray player for the big titles but my desire to collect movies is done.
So, you've given up on being a "TRUE" movie fan, apparently because your disc format of choice is looking pretty screwed. what happened to all the posturing you did with "it's about the movies, not the format"
If you ARE done, then streaming media is no better advantage, as you say you are "done", if you see it as the future for you, then you are NOT "done"
Either way you sound like you still need to posture some more. With the bad choice you made in regard to HD-DVD, why would anyone listen to you any more?
With regards to the speculated payout by Microsoft to Dreamworks to go HD DVD.
The Microsoft/Toshiba pay off to Paramount was not speculation. It is a fact.
Mate, if thats smart business then show me not so smart business...
It's warner that is getting speculated about, without proof, and from all quotes, and angles I've seen on the matter it looks like they did it without any payment because it was smart business.
I'm done with this round of media folks.
Sounds like sour grapes to me.
I'm disguested with all of these studios. I see what Apple has to deal with when trying to negotiate deals with snakes.
Who are you kidding? You would have been dancing in the streets had Warner gone red. And instead of calling the studios snakes, you would have been defending Warner's business decision with the standard shill talking points, regardless of how much Toshiba/Microsoft paid for their loyalty.
These formats were sold as the next big thing yet all I'm seeing are pumped up DVDs. Even the best menus and interactivity to me pale to the possibility of playing content off a Media Server.
I bought into HDM not for funky PIP or interactivity, but for high quality video and audio presentation. It's as simple as that. If I want interactivity, then I will log into the computer.
In 5 years downloads will overtake optical HDM sales. This will be caused by faster broadband options across the Globe and better compression methods hitting the market that will drop a 720p movie down to under 4Gb.
God let's hope not. I know Microsoft has shifted its shill talking points to digital downloads, but the world's IT architecture is not even remotely close to being ready for prime time.
Sounds like sour grapes to me.
Yah seriously. For all the posturing about how childish BR supporters were many HD-DVD folks are doing a good impression of an 8 year old that doesn't get their way.
God let's hope not. I know Microsoft has shifted its shill talking points to digital downloads, but the world's IT architecture is not even remotely close to being ready for prime time.
Actually, I think 720p should be sufficient for many folks near term...which might sound a bit odd given my comments to Shetline above. Many if not most folks DO sit far enough away that the resolution difference is fairly small. Both Apple and MS have benefitted from the HD format war since it decreases the window for hard media as a form factor.
Every month sees more FTTP and FTTC deployments in the US and we're often behind other countries in terms of bandwidth deployments. WiMAX might actually see a wide scale deployment once this decade.
Average TV sizes are still fairly small due to cost but I expect that they will continue to increase in size. As they do, folks will sit closer both as a function of room size and comfort...the smaller the TV the farther you want to sit (in comparison to screen height) for some reason.
So widespread digital downloads are not out of the picture for the mid term (3-5 years)...assuming you don't count digital PPV or IPTV services as part of "digital download". Because those are already deployed.
That said, I don't believe that BR will become niche if the format war does end soon. Warner's switch signals BR's eventual victory but HD-DVD could continue to make the war linger a little. There is a window for adoption and its still open for HDM for at least another Christmas. HD-DVD needs to be dead vs undead before then.
The 2008 Christmas will have both cheaper players and HDTVs with the end of analog TVs on the horizon.
Another key factor is that BR looks a lot better out of the box over HDMI than most current DVD players that are, if they are lucky, connected via SVideo. The number of folks correctly using a upconverting DVD player is IMHO small given most homes I've been to that have largish HDTVs. I see composite connections a lot when I peek in back and just have to shake my head.
I see composite connections a lot when I peek in back and just have to shake my head.
Ew!!!!
You don't have Scart in the U.S., do you?
Another key factor is that BR looks a lot better out of the box over HDMI than most current DVD players that are, if they are lucky, connected via SVideo. The number of folks correctly using a upconverting DVD player is IMHO small given most homes I've been to that have largish HDTVs. I see composite connections a lot when I peek in back and just have to shake my head.
In red I have no idea what your trying to say, but most (I think all) up-converting DVD players don't up-convert unless you use the HDMI connection port. I know mine doesn't.
In red I have no idea what your trying to say, but most (I think all) up-converting DVD players don't up-convert unless you use the HDMI connection port. I know mine doesn't.
He means that most people probably have a DVD player connected over a crappy connection (S-Video or composite), so an upgrade to Blu-ray might be a bigger leap than you might think.
And they make regular dvds look GREAT.
Ew!!!!
You don't have Scart in the U.S., do you?
It's a french originated standard. There is just no way US CE will allow it.
The digital interconnects, DVI/HDMI is still very new to US CE market.
Not if they own plasma or lcd tvs. Come on, dvd players that upconvert and come with HDMI will cost you less than $100! I got one free with my tv. Lots of stores are giving away upconverting dvd players with plasma tv purchases.
And they make regular dvds look GREAT.
The newer HDTV's actually do a better job upconverting than the cheaper upconverting dvd players. This is worth trying for those having issues with macro-blocking.
He means that most people probably have a DVD player connected over a crappy connection (S-Video or composite), so an upgrade to Blu-ray might be a bigger leap than you might think.
Exactly. For whatever reason they did not get a new DVD player when they bought their TVs and are using the same setups as before...and very very few used the component outs...and few have their DVD players in anamorphic mode.
The newer HDTV's actually do a better job upconverting than the cheaper upconverting dvd players. This is worth trying for those having issues with macro-blocking.
Yah...but I dunno that they bother over any other input than component and HDMI...
A lot of folks have been waiting for the "war" to be over. You read the tech articles in mainstream press and they've all pretty much said "wait until the war is over". That certainly didn't help adoption rates and folks that might have bought a HD player of some kind when they bought their HDTV didn't. And folks aren't likely to buy a new DVD player (upconverting or otherwise) with a victor waiting in the wings.
For folks that got a free upconverting DVD player with their TV purchase, great...everyone else is watching so-so DVD movies and thinking bitstarved HD over cable or sat is as good as HD gets.
I think there's a bit of pent up demand for HDM as the format war ends. All those folks that said "WAIT!" will now say "GO!".
One has to feel a little sorry for Paramount, well only a very, very little.
To me Warner's announce all but spells the death of combo players as who needs them.
Sounds like sour grapes to me.
Who are you kidding? You would have been dancing in the streets had Warner gone red. And instead of calling the studios snakes, you would have been defending Warner's business decision with the standard shill talking points, regardless of how much Toshiba/Microsoft paid for their loyalty.
I bought into HDM not for funky PIP or interactivity, but for high quality video and audio presentation. It's as simple as that. If I want interactivity, then I will log into the computer.
God let's hope not. I know Microsoft has shifted its shill talking points to digital downloads, but the world's IT architecture is not even remotely close to being ready for prime time.
Ranger,
Great points,...and welcome to the forum!
I think there's a bit of pent up demand for HDM as the format war ends. All those folks that said "WAIT!" will now say "GO!".
I really hope so. Does this mean we can expect 10 to 15% HDM sales to DVD's by the year end?
Universal has to be examining their business plan. Now that the experts in the media are calling the format war over it's a safe bet that HD player sales will dry up. HD disc's roughly 40% market share on a good week should shrink considerably over the course of the year to perhaps a 20% or less level. Universal has to decide whether they want to be a big fish in a drying up market or tap into the larger portion of the HDM market. Plus, with all their HD only titles, they're sitting on a potential bonanza releasing those to the expanding BD market. At least, this scenario makes sense to me but truthfully, what in this whole HDM mess has ever made sense?
One has to feel a little sorry for Paramount, well only a very, very little.
To me Warner's announce all but spells the death of combo players as who needs them.
Well... none of the studios really need to pick a HDM market in a very niche pot. The DVD market is big enough of a pond where 5% of DVD market is still greater than 100% of the HDM market.
Business as usual, I'd say, even without the HDM market altogether.
I really hope so. Does this mean we can expect 10 to 15% HDM sales to DVD's by the year end?
Considering that HDM is a 40 billion dollar industry, that's 6 billion in Blu-ray's pocket right there...I think they'll take that.