We all get the personal storage server concept. It's been around for over a decade.
What people need to get is that as graphics technologies improve, bit depth per channel expands and total size of video content expands as it becomes more rich and complex.
HD 1080p today will eventually be replaced in ten years with higher resolution solutions.
Storage will always expand.
Modeling non-linear dynamic systems takes massive information just to mimic a fraction of reality.
It's daunting but definitely ensures IT companies in certain markets guaranteed future revenues and incentives to expand and improve their solutions.
HD 1080p today will eventually be replaced in ten years with higher resolution solutions.
Doubtful in the home market. At screen sizes and viewing distances found in the home, 1080p HD is already near the limit of the eye's perception. It is doubtful that people would be able to perceive, let alone appreciate, higher definition than 1080p.
Higher resolution digital distribution will come for cinemas, and possibly the high-end of home-cinema, but I doubt it'll ever go mainstream. See high-resolution audio for an example of another related market where this has already happened.
Maybe 3-D will happen, but that's been in the offing for decades and has never happened.
Do you know what the suggested retail price, for example, the Pirates of the Caribbean 3 blu-ray is in the U.K.? £29.99. That's $60! For one movie! The region-coding DRM layer allows studios to continue to rip-off all markets outside the U.S.
and rip off Britain isn't used to that? but dear smart and intellectual guru of all things, what, may I ask is the actual street price? FAR lower and only set to drop. £16 online?
I remember purchasing DVDs in 2000 in the UK for £25 a pop 3 years after they had launched. but yet I believe we are only 18 months or so into this new format. RRPS mean fuck all, AND you know it!
Needless to say I'm not going to finish an argument involving a tech war that is over. It's redundant.
That's not the same thing at all. Apple only implemented DRM in iTunes at the behest of the labels, and even then built-in support for open AAC and MP3 standards. You can always burn your music to a CD and re-rip it, if for some reason Fairplay is abandoned later on.
The sad thing is that Sony Music just capitulated to the open music market and, if given a bit more time and pressure from their fanboys, Sony might have caved on the draconian DRM on Blu-Ray as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cam'ron
Frank, I don't understand why the DRM is such a big issue to you. First off, (apparently) it is/almost broken. Secondly, if you are buying legitimately then what is the problem? Are you really going to back up all your movies? I'm sure your collection will survive on the shelf....scratches too. You would need a drive on your computer to do that anyways...
...Cons: An extra DRM, which MOST consumers won't even know about. Sorry to tell you Frank, most people are clueless about DRM, they buy movies and watch them...that's it. Hell, most people wouldn't know how to back up movies if you did it for them.
I agree that most people don't understand the issues here. But most don't understand the Mac is superior to Windows either. I prefer Capitalism as an economic system, but Big Media has basically just been allowed to push everyone to abandon VHS for DVD, then push everyone to abandon DVD for Blu-Ray, and will soon push everyone to buy digital copies of the same films they already have for home server use.
I wouldn't say they mean fuck-all. Bricks and mortar stores charge pretty close to the RRP. Why anyone still buys things like DVDs at bricks and mortar stores with prices like that is beyond me, but they do.
However, even at £16 (and I have a problem believing the legitimacy of the website selling it at £16 which is severely undercutting everyone else), that's $32. Looks like there's a number of online places selling it for $23 - $25 in the U.S.
I'll buy a Blu-ray player for the big titles but my desire to collect movies is done. I'm disguested with all of these studios. I see what Apple has to deal with when trying to negotiate deals with snakes.
It's 2008. I don't think it's to out of place to have networked players and features like Managed Copy.
Managed Copy is dead.
These formats were sold as the next big thing yet all I'm seeing are pumped up DVDs. Even the best menus and interactivity to me pale to the possibility of playing content off a Media Server.
In 5 years downloads will overtake optical HDM sales. This will be caused by faster broadband options across the Globe and better compression methods hitting the market that will drop a 720p movie down to under 4Gb.
It might take longer to do, but Blu-Ray protection will almost certainly be cracked. Blu-Ray suffers from the same vulnerability that all single-ended encryption suffers: you couldn't play the media at all if someone wasn't giving you both the encrypted message and the key to descramble it. The fact that you can see a viewable picture on your screen means that you must have been given the key that decrypts the content of your discs and puts that viewable picture up there where you can see it.
Also, since new Blu-Ray releases are supposed to remain compatible with older Blu-Ray players, and Blu-Ray players aren't required to "phone home" to get key updates, then all the decryption keys you'll ever need must be built into every Blu-Ray player. (The same argument goes for HD-DVD, of course.)
Once someone reverse-engineers the complete process going on inside any Blu-Ray player, the cat is then out of the bag and can't be put back in. The only trick the studios can play is to try to hold back on using one or more DRM variations -- variations which nevertheless have to be built into the oldest Blu-Ray players out there right now -- and hope that, with no software released for the hackers to test their hacks with -- they can switch to a variant in the wake of each successful hack, and hope that the hack wasn't complete.
It may take only months. It could be a year or several years. But I'd say it's 99% certain that the Blu-Ray DRM will be cracked within the next few years, and we'll be able to rip HD content just as we've been able to rip standard DVDs for the past few years.
Since HD-DVD is now beginning to look like it's going to get beaten, but I already own a few HD-DVD movies, I hope that some hacker remains interested enough in cracking HD-DVD too, so I'll be able to transfer content from HD-DVD to Blu-Ray. Then again, the number of discs I have is small enough that it might be easier to bite the bullet and re-buy those titles as Blu-Ray, rather than have to scrounge up an HD-DVD drive to do the conversion, and blank Blu-Ray media at cheap enough a price to be worth the effort.
I'm not sure why people keep saying Blu Ray DRM will be cracked when it is already cracked? It was cracked before the first Blu Ray disk player was ever sold in the US.
I'm not sure why people keep saying Blu Ray DRM will be cracked when it is already cracked? It was cracked before the first Blu Ray disk player was ever sold in the US.
AACS has not been completely hacked/cracked. All that has been done is for all current releases, processing keys have been found from software players. This allows all CURRENT titles to be decrypted. However, in short order, the next revocation will occur, and new keys will need to be found. Each time it will become more difficult as the software makers try and hide the keys more and more and close the previous holes. So, while all current titles will forever be unlocked, future titles need new keys, and nothing is guaranteed. This is very different from CSS, when it was busted open and all DVDs (past, present, and future) are unlockable.
AACS has not been completely hacked/cracked. All that has been done is for all current releases, processing keys have been found from software players. This allows all CURRENT titles to be decrypted. However, in short order, the next revocation will occur, and new keys will need to be found. Each time it will become more difficult as the software makers try and hide the keys more and more and close the previous holes. So, while all current titles will forever be unlocked, future titles need new keys, and nothing is guaranteed. This is very different from CSS, when it was busted open and all DVDs (past, present, and future) are unlockable.
Future titles may use new keys, but those keys have to be built into the current hardware, or some master key to decrypt new keys stored on the disc, or else old Blu-Ray players wouldn't be able to play newer releases without getting a firmware update.
If anything, it should get harder for the disc makers to effectively hide new keys, not harder for hackers to find them.
Future titles may use new keys, but those keys have to be built into the current hardware, or some master key to decrypt new keys stored on the disc, or else old Blu-Ray players wouldn't be able to play newer releases without getting a firmware update.
If anything, it should get harder for the disc makers to effectively hide new keys, not harder for hackers to find them.
I agree with that, and would like to note that kupan787 is totally speculating. The Fact is the new keys are popping up in same place as the old keys. They get found, they are posted, and you go get them. How hard can it be to wait two hours after a movie is sold for someone to post the key for you? it's not even difficult to get it yourself.
Regardless HD-DVD is now dead, and no matter how much people cry about it it's not coming back. Get over it, and live with it.
Doubtful in the home market. At screen sizes and viewing distances found in the home, 1080p HD is already near the limit of the eye's perception. It is doubtful that people would be able to perceive, let alone appreciate, higher definition than 1080p.
Higher resolution digital distribution will come for cinemas, and possibly the high-end of home-cinema, but I doubt it'll ever go mainstream. See high-resolution audio for an example of another related market where this has already happened.
Maybe 3-D will happen, but that's been in the offing for decades and has never happened.
And the earth is flat, and man will never be able to fly, and the moon is made of cheese, and every "new" invention has already been invented...
People have been making statements like yours forever, yet technology keeps improving.
We will DEFINITELY have better than 1080p in the average home in the not too distant future. Whether that means 5 years or 25 years is anyones guess, but it'll certainly happen.
I agree with that, and would like to note that kupan787 is totally speculating. The Fact is the new keys are popping up in same place as the old keys. They get found, they are posted, and you go get them. How hard can it be to wait two hours after a movie is sold for someone to post the key for you? it's not even difficult to get it yourself.
I only skimmed the material kupan787 linked to, so I can't say I follow all of it completely at this point, but this much is what I get out of it so far: if you break into the Subset-Difference Tree stored inside the silicon which is built into any AACS player, you've got the whole enchilada. Before that, you can only skim off the keys that are revealed by playing current titles.
It wouldn't surprise me if there was extra, unnecessary data stored in various copies of the Subset-Difference Tree, so that if a manufacture lets the secrets they've been entrusted with slip out, the extra data will ID the source of the leak.
If and when Blu-Ray takes off (killing off HD DVD doesn't necessarily mean Blu-Ray will become as popular as standard DVD has become), and there are many millions of players in use all over the world, it will become harder and harder to keep the complete Subset-Difference Tree under wraps. Once that's out, the whole encryption/decryption process becomes nothing more than an incredibly byzantine exercise in futility. Even before that, by skimming off individual sub-keys as new titles are released, the DRM becomes nothing more than a temporary nuisance to be solved every few weeks or months, however often the keys in current use are cycled.
Comments
What people need to get is that as graphics technologies improve, bit depth per channel expands and total size of video content expands as it becomes more rich and complex.
HD 1080p today will eventually be replaced in ten years with higher resolution solutions.
Storage will always expand.
Modeling non-linear dynamic systems takes massive information just to mimic a fraction of reality.
It's daunting but definitely ensures IT companies in certain markets guaranteed future revenues and incentives to expand and improve their solutions.
HD 1080p today will eventually be replaced in ten years with higher resolution solutions.
Doubtful in the home market. At screen sizes and viewing distances found in the home, 1080p HD is already near the limit of the eye's perception. It is doubtful that people would be able to perceive, let alone appreciate, higher definition than 1080p.
Higher resolution digital distribution will come for cinemas, and possibly the high-end of home-cinema, but I doubt it'll ever go mainstream. See high-resolution audio for an example of another related market where this has already happened.
Maybe 3-D will happen, but that's been in the offing for decades and has never happened.
Not at all.
Do you know what the suggested retail price, for example, the Pirates of the Caribbean 3 blu-ray is in the U.K.? £29.99. That's $60! For one movie! The region-coding DRM layer allows studios to continue to rip-off all markets outside the U.S.
and rip off Britain isn't used to that? but dear smart and intellectual guru of all things, what, may I ask is the actual street price? FAR lower and only set to drop. £16 online?
I remember purchasing DVDs in 2000 in the UK for £25 a pop 3 years after they had launched. but yet I believe we are only 18 months or so into this new format. RRPS mean fuck all, AND you know it!
Is what I hearing true? Newline cinema have just went Blu exclusive?
Isn't New Line a subsidiary of Time Warner?
If so, then it was inevitable when Warner went.
This suit is what I'm comparing your statement to.
Needless to say I'm not going to finish an argument involving a tech war that is over. It's redundant.
That's not the same thing at all. Apple only implemented DRM in iTunes at the behest of the labels, and even then built-in support for open AAC and MP3 standards. You can always burn your music to a CD and re-rip it, if for some reason Fairplay is abandoned later on.
The sad thing is that Sony Music just capitulated to the open music market and, if given a bit more time and pressure from their fanboys, Sony might have caved on the draconian DRM on Blu-Ray as well.
Frank, I don't understand why the DRM is such a big issue to you. First off, (apparently) it is/almost broken. Secondly, if you are buying legitimately then what is the problem? Are you really going to back up all your movies? I'm sure your collection will survive on the shelf....scratches too. You would need a drive on your computer to do that anyways...
...Cons: An extra DRM, which MOST consumers won't even know about. Sorry to tell you Frank, most people are clueless about DRM, they buy movies and watch them...that's it. Hell, most people wouldn't know how to back up movies if you did it for them.
I agree that most people don't understand the issues here. But most don't understand the Mac is superior to Windows either. I prefer Capitalism as an economic system, but Big Media has basically just been allowed to push everyone to abandon VHS for DVD, then push everyone to abandon DVD for Blu-Ray, and will soon push everyone to buy digital copies of the same films they already have for home server use.
That's insane, by almost any standard.
RRPS mean fuck all, AND you know it!
I wouldn't say they mean fuck-all. Bricks and mortar stores charge pretty close to the RRP. Why anyone still buys things like DVDs at bricks and mortar stores with prices like that is beyond me, but they do.
However, even at £16 (and I have a problem believing the legitimacy of the website selling it at £16 which is severely undercutting everyone else), that's $32. Looks like there's a number of online places selling it for $23 - $25 in the U.S.
Blah, blah, blah...
Thanks for joining?
I'll buy a Blu-ray player for the big titles but my desire to collect movies is done. I'm disguested with all of these studios. I see what Apple has to deal with when trying to negotiate deals with snakes.
It's 2008. I don't think it's to out of place to have networked players and features like Managed Copy.
Managed Copy is dead.
These formats were sold as the next big thing yet all I'm seeing are pumped up DVDs. Even the best menus and interactivity to me pale to the possibility of playing content off a Media Server.
In 5 years downloads will overtake optical HDM sales. This will be caused by faster broadband options across the Globe and better compression methods hitting the market that will drop a 720p movie down to under 4Gb.
Blue-Ray sucks!
It might take longer to do, but Blu-Ray protection will almost certainly be cracked. Blu-Ray suffers from the same vulnerability that all single-ended encryption suffers: you couldn't play the media at all if someone wasn't giving you both the encrypted message and the key to descramble it. The fact that you can see a viewable picture on your screen means that you must have been given the key that decrypts the content of your discs and puts that viewable picture up there where you can see it.
Also, since new Blu-Ray releases are supposed to remain compatible with older Blu-Ray players, and Blu-Ray players aren't required to "phone home" to get key updates, then all the decryption keys you'll ever need must be built into every Blu-Ray player. (The same argument goes for HD-DVD, of course.)
Once someone reverse-engineers the complete process going on inside any Blu-Ray player, the cat is then out of the bag and can't be put back in. The only trick the studios can play is to try to hold back on using one or more DRM variations -- variations which nevertheless have to be built into the oldest Blu-Ray players out there right now -- and hope that, with no software released for the hackers to test their hacks with -- they can switch to a variant in the wake of each successful hack, and hope that the hack wasn't complete.
It may take only months. It could be a year or several years. But I'd say it's 99% certain that the Blu-Ray DRM will be cracked within the next few years, and we'll be able to rip HD content just as we've been able to rip standard DVDs for the past few years.
Since HD-DVD is now beginning to look like it's going to get beaten, but I already own a few HD-DVD movies, I hope that some hacker remains interested enough in cracking HD-DVD too, so I'll be able to transfer content from HD-DVD to Blu-Ray. Then again, the number of discs I have is small enough that it might be easier to bite the bullet and re-buy those titles as Blu-Ray, rather than have to scrounge up an HD-DVD drive to do the conversion, and blank Blu-Ray media at cheap enough a price to be worth the effort.
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-ente...ked-236213.php
I'm not sure why people keep saying Blu Ray DRM will be cracked when it is already cracked? It was cracked before the first Blu Ray disk player was ever sold in the US.
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-ente...ked-236213.php
Head over to doom9 to get a better understanding: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=122363
AACS has not been completely hacked/cracked. All that has been done is for all current releases, processing keys have been found from software players. This allows all CURRENT titles to be decrypted. However, in short order, the next revocation will occur, and new keys will need to be found. Each time it will become more difficult as the software makers try and hide the keys more and more and close the previous holes. So, while all current titles will forever be unlocked, future titles need new keys, and nothing is guaranteed. This is very different from CSS, when it was busted open and all DVDs (past, present, and future) are unlockable.
AACS has not been completely hacked/cracked. All that has been done is for all current releases, processing keys have been found from software players. This allows all CURRENT titles to be decrypted. However, in short order, the next revocation will occur, and new keys will need to be found. Each time it will become more difficult as the software makers try and hide the keys more and more and close the previous holes. So, while all current titles will forever be unlocked, future titles need new keys, and nothing is guaranteed. This is very different from CSS, when it was busted open and all DVDs (past, present, and future) are unlockable.
Future titles may use new keys, but those keys have to be built into the current hardware, or some master key to decrypt new keys stored on the disc, or else old Blu-Ray players wouldn't be able to play newer releases without getting a firmware update.
If anything, it should get harder for the disc makers to effectively hide new keys, not harder for hackers to find them.
Future titles may use new keys, but those keys have to be built into the current hardware, or some master key to decrypt new keys stored on the disc, or else old Blu-Ray players wouldn't be able to play newer releases without getting a firmware update.
If anything, it should get harder for the disc makers to effectively hide new keys, not harder for hackers to find them.
I agree with that, and would like to note that kupan787 is totally speculating. The Fact is the new keys are popping up in same place as the old keys. They get found, they are posted, and you go get them. How hard can it be to wait two hours after a movie is sold for someone to post the key for you? it's not even difficult to get it yourself.
Regardless HD-DVD is now dead, and no matter how much people cry about it it's not coming back. Get over it, and live with it.
Doubtful in the home market. At screen sizes and viewing distances found in the home, 1080p HD is already near the limit of the eye's perception. It is doubtful that people would be able to perceive, let alone appreciate, higher definition than 1080p.
Higher resolution digital distribution will come for cinemas, and possibly the high-end of home-cinema, but I doubt it'll ever go mainstream. See high-resolution audio for an example of another related market where this has already happened.
Maybe 3-D will happen, but that's been in the offing for decades and has never happened.
And the earth is flat, and man will never be able to fly, and the moon is made of cheese, and every "new" invention has already been invented...
People have been making statements like yours forever, yet technology keeps improving.
We will DEFINITELY have better than 1080p in the average home in the not too distant future. Whether that means 5 years or 25 years is anyones guess, but it'll certainly happen.
I agree with that, and would like to note that kupan787 is totally speculating. The Fact is the new keys are popping up in same place as the old keys. They get found, they are posted, and you go get them. How hard can it be to wait two hours after a movie is sold for someone to post the key for you? it's not even difficult to get it yourself.
I only skimmed the material kupan787 linked to, so I can't say I follow all of it completely at this point, but this much is what I get out of it so far: if you break into the Subset-Difference Tree stored inside the silicon which is built into any AACS player, you've got the whole enchilada. Before that, you can only skim off the keys that are revealed by playing current titles.
It wouldn't surprise me if there was extra, unnecessary data stored in various copies of the Subset-Difference Tree, so that if a manufacture lets the secrets they've been entrusted with slip out, the extra data will ID the source of the leak.
If and when Blu-Ray takes off (killing off HD DVD doesn't necessarily mean Blu-Ray will become as popular as standard DVD has become), and there are many millions of players in use all over the world, it will become harder and harder to keep the complete Subset-Difference Tree under wraps. Once that's out, the whole encryption/decryption process becomes nothing more than an incredibly byzantine exercise in futility. Even before that, by skimming off individual sub-keys as new titles are released, the DRM becomes nothing more than a temporary nuisance to be solved every few weeks or months, however often the keys in current use are cycled.