No kidding. What do you think I've been saying? People will first have to buy an HDTV before even thinking about a Blu Ray player.
Of course, but companies need to give the HDM/blu-ray players for free with the new HDTV to move the HDM players off the shelf. It seems to be the only effective way to expand HDM market.
As long as these free promotions continue, we'll have effective HDM player decent penetration data by end 2009. But what are we going to do with these consumers with free HDM players still using it for regular DVD's only?...
Having followed this thread for a few years, I REALLY want to see people coming out of the foxhole, or else watch them get blown to bits for their unyielding stubbornness.
Petty I may be, but its the winners not the whiners that get to write the history books.
Yeah, yeah you'll really win supporters for your cause that way.
You really just don't get it do you? Look I'll say it for you slow this time. HD DVD has probably lost. However there's no certainty that BR has been accepted mainstream. This isn't football. Once again trashing the other format won't put a good face on your format And if you don't think it matters just feel free to follow the other lemmings over the cliff.
Yeah, yeah you'll really win supporters for your cause that way.
You really just don't get it do you? Look I'll say it for you slow this time. HD DVD has probably lost. However there's no certainty that BR has been accepted mainstream. This isn't football. Once again trashing the other format won't put a good face on your format And if you don't think it matters just feel free to follow the other lemmings over the cliff.
Lemmings? Cliff? Only format going over a cliff is HD-DVD. don't take it so personally, try and be a good sport, it's only football after all....er...an optical format war! People WILL see the difference between DVD and Blu-Ray eventually, but like I said, J6P needs to be educated a bit by the sales guy and viral marketing will help too. Once one guy has it and shows it to his friends (possibly via the free player with the tv), they too will be enticed.
bitemymac, you really think someone who gets a free Blu-Ray player isn't going to buy a couple (or at least rent) BDs? At that point the customer has been given quite enough incentive that they will bite. It is odd that you like to take little jabs any chance you get, but if the shoe was on the other foot, you would be quite content.
Metaphors don't have to be true, just widely understood. Though i have always found it humorous that Disney is indirectly responsible for a fictional documentary that took the lives of many small furry creatures. Even Michael Moore combatants cant say that.
Lemmings? Cliff? Only format going over a cliff is HD-DVD. don't take it so personally, try and be a good sport, it's only football after all....er...an optical format war! People WILL see the difference between DVD and Blu-Ray eventually, but like I said, J6P needs to be educated a bit by the sales guy and viral marketing will help too. Once one guy has it and shows it to his friends (possibly via the free player with the tv), they too will be enticed.
bitemymac, you really think someone who gets a free Blu-Ray player isn't going to buy a couple (or at least rent) BDs? At that point the customer has been given quite enough incentive that they will bite. It is odd that you like to take little jabs any chance you get, but if the shoe was on the other foot, you would be quite content.
I'm not taking it personally. I want to see an HD format in home video. What I'm saying is that BR has hardly won it's place in mainstream video. You could just as likely at this point see BR palyers in a garage sale in 10 years wondering what happened? What you have to do to get BR in lime light is put a friendly spin on all of this and give people a reason to adopt that format. Because the numbers for both BR and HD DVD right now are really small by comparison to the standard format DVD. And alot of people ( even with HDTVs ) are saying " Why should I switch? That DVD looks just fine " . Get it?
Let's move on from the bickering and sour grapes and discuss what the BD Association, manufacturers and studios need to do to gain a wider penetration into the market. Please note, I'm not talking about the J6P market, that comes later, but instead those approximately 33% of homes who already have an HDTV. And please, let's leave out the twin red herrings of DVD and downloads.
Obviously, the price of players needs to come down. Several people have mentioned $200 as their pricepoint but $250 seems more realistic at this time. There also needs to be several discs included in the box. This serves as a powerful incentive for an impulse buy.
Media prices need to come down. A standard new release DVD seems to hit the street at $19.99. While it would be nice for new release BD to be at the same price, at this time that's clearly unrealistic, as unrealistic as the present price structure. It's arguable that BD should command a slight premium but anything more than $5.00 is counterproductive. Several months after release DVD prices drop, in some cases drastically. That also needs to happen with BD, either with actual pricing or through frequent BOGOs.
One of the laments about HDM is lack of titles, both in quantity and quality. It seems in the case of the latter, that studios have tended to release a disproportional amount of second and third rate horror and action titles that are eye candy for a very small segment of the market. Studios need to make up their minds whether they're committed to BD and if so they need to devote the resources needed so that there's an aggressive release of both new titles plus catalog titles.
Let's move on from the bickering and sour grapes and discuss what the BD Association, manufacturers and studios need to do to gain a wider penetration into the market.
...
One of the laments about HDM is lack of titles, both in quantity and quality. It seems in the case of the latter, that studios have tended to release a disproportional amount of second and third rate horror and action titles that are eye candy for a very small segment of the market. Studios need to make up their minds whether they're committed to BD and if so they need to devote the resources needed so that there's an aggressive release of both new titles plus catalog titles.
Yah...LOTR and other epic titles need to get released. Although we do have some...
Let's ... discuss what the BD Association, manufacturers and studios need to do to gain a wider penetration into the market. ... And please, let's leave out the twin red herrings of DVD and downloads.
I don't think it is possible to analyze the adoption rate without figuring in competing products. Or at least it would be a rather pointless exercise
My opinion is that it all comes down to price. Even a good percentage of self-anointed videophiles, like myself , have yet to get on board the HDM ship. If players and movies were as cheap as DVD, we'd all pick one up on the way home today.
Product improvements stand no chance of increasing sales. The available players already play back movies in a manner that is more than sufficient for 99% of the market. Lower prices are the only thing that will boost HDM sales.
Let's move on from the bickering and sour grapes and discuss what the BD Association, manufacturers and studios need to do to gain a wider penetration into the market. Please note, I'm not talking about the J6P market, that comes later, but instead those approximately 33% of homes who already have an HDTV. And please, let's leave out the twin red herrings of DVD and downloads.
Obviously, the price of players needs to come down. Several people have mentioned $200 as their pricepoint but $250 seems more realistic at this time. There also needs to be several discs included in the box. This serves as a powerful incentive for an impulse buy.
Media prices need to come down. A standard new release DVD seems to hit the street at $19.99. While it would be nice for new release BD to be at the same price, at this time that's clearly unrealistic, as unrealistic as the present price structure. It's arguable that BD should command a slight premium but anything more than $5.00 is counterproductive. Several months after release DVD prices drop, in some cases drastically. That also needs to happen with BD, either with actual pricing or through frequent BOGOs.
One of the laments about HDM is lack of titles, both in quantity and quality. It seems in the case of the latter, that studios have tended to release a disproportional amount of second and third rate horror and action titles that are eye candy for a very small segment of the market. Studios need to make up their minds whether they're committed to BD and if so they need to devote the resources needed so that there's an aggressive release of both new titles plus catalog titles.
Need to do three things....
1) lower the price.
2) lower the price.
3) lower the price.
and HD-DVD is already doing it with the hardware, and just need the software price to drop which is entirely in the freedom of the studios. It's hard to depend on either HDM backers to bleed further for partially subsidize software price.
I would think, the current show stoppers to move HDM market forward are the studios, and their games in taking sides or playing exclusive support is hurting the HDM market even more.
However, the caveat is gaining the interest of those HDTV owners to want HDM viewing at home, first. This is even more challenging than buying off studios for exclusive support. I'm sure free player give away promotions will help.
and HD-DVD is already doing it with the hardware, and just need the software price to drop which is entirely in the freedom of the studios. It's hard to depend on either HDM backers to bleed further for partially subsidize software price.
I would think, the current show stoppers to move HDM market forward are the studios, and their games in taking sides or playing exclusive support is hurting the HDM market even more.
However, the caveat is gaining the interest of those HDTV owners to want HDM viewing at home, first. This is even more challenging than buying off studios for exclusive support. I'm sure free player give away promotions will help.
1) New Technology is always a premium price.
2) New Technology is always a premium price.
3) New Technology is always a premium price.
HD DVD is a dead technology. They new it for the past year. Why do you think they kept lowering the prices. They were doing everything they could to stay in the game, but in the end they are still dead. Now they are just clearing inventory. Do you really think they are still making players?
Do you really think they are still making players?
Why would they spend $3 million on a super bowl ad if they were not making any more players?
Here is my question: If the companies involved were willing to spend millions buying each others loyalty, and all the studios cared about was disk sales, why didn't Toshiba just go out and spend $50 million buying up a bunch of Warner HD DVDs? This way Warner would have looked and said "Well gosh, our HD DVDs are selling more"; Neilson (sorry if I spelled that wrong) would have painted a different picture as well. With the kind of cash being thrown about, this seems to be as it would have been a better move, and it doesn't seem any more or less of an ethical thing.
Why would they spend $3 million on a super bowl ad if they were not making any more players?
It was probably paid for in full when HD-DVD was still a viable format. They really should have re-sold the slot, but maybe it was too late to arrange that?
Comments
we could just as easily be talking about the death of Blu-Ray right now.
Possibly, but really only in a fantasy world.
No kidding. What do you think I've been saying? People will first have to buy an HDTV before even thinking about a Blu Ray player.
Of course, but companies need to give the HDM/blu-ray players for free with the new HDTV to move the HDM players off the shelf. It seems to be the only effective way to expand HDM market.
As long as these free promotions continue, we'll have effective HDM player decent penetration data by end 2009. But what are we going to do with these consumers with free HDM players still using it for regular DVD's only?...
thanks for the foxhole analogy
Having followed this thread for a few years, I REALLY want to see people coming out of the foxhole, or else watch them get blown to bits for their unyielding stubbornness.
Petty I may be, but its the winners not the whiners that get to write the history books.
Yeah, yeah you'll really win supporters for your cause that way.
You really just don't get it do you? Look I'll say it for you slow this time. HD DVD has probably lost. However there's no certainty that BR has been accepted mainstream. This isn't football. Once again trashing the other format won't put a good face on your format And if you don't think it matters just feel free to follow the other lemmings over the cliff.
Yeah, yeah you'll really win supporters for your cause that way.
You really just don't get it do you? Look I'll say it for you slow this time. HD DVD has probably lost. However there's no certainty that BR has been accepted mainstream. This isn't football. Once again trashing the other format won't put a good face on your format And if you don't think it matters just feel free to follow the other lemmings over the cliff.
Lemmings? Cliff? Only format going over a cliff is HD-DVD. don't take it so personally, try and be a good sport, it's only football after all....er...an optical format war! People WILL see the difference between DVD and Blu-Ray eventually, but like I said, J6P needs to be educated a bit by the sales guy and viral marketing will help too. Once one guy has it and shows it to his friends (possibly via the free player with the tv), they too will be enticed.
bitemymac, you really think someone who gets a free Blu-Ray player isn't going to buy a couple (or at least rent) BDs? At that point the customer has been given quite enough incentive that they will bite. It is odd that you like to take little jabs any chance you get, but if the shoe was on the other foot, you would be quite content.
just feel free to follow the other lemmings over the cliff.
Lemmings don't do that.
Lemmings don't do that.
Metaphors don't have to be true, just widely understood. Though i have always found it humorous that Disney is indirectly responsible for a fictional documentary that took the lives of many small furry creatures. Even Michael Moore combatants cant say that.
Selling HD DVD during the SuperBowl:
Play ball!...
So... free blu-ray player with HDTV purchases vs. $149 HD-DVD player retail price at CC, BB, Walmart, and Amazon.....
Hmm... when can we expect to see the HDM software price drop?.....
Play ball!...
So... free blu-ray player with HDTV purchases vs. $149 HD-DVD player retail price at CC, BB, Walmart, and Amazon.....
Hmm... when can we expect to see the HDM software price drop?.....
Was that an ad during the SuperBowl? If so, I didn't see it.
Lemmings? Cliff? Only format going over a cliff is HD-DVD. don't take it so personally, try and be a good sport, it's only football after all....er...an optical format war! People WILL see the difference between DVD and Blu-Ray eventually, but like I said, J6P needs to be educated a bit by the sales guy and viral marketing will help too. Once one guy has it and shows it to his friends (possibly via the free player with the tv), they too will be enticed.
bitemymac, you really think someone who gets a free Blu-Ray player isn't going to buy a couple (or at least rent) BDs? At that point the customer has been given quite enough incentive that they will bite. It is odd that you like to take little jabs any chance you get, but if the shoe was on the other foot, you would be quite content.
I'm not taking it personally. I want to see an HD format in home video. What I'm saying is that BR has hardly won it's place in mainstream video. You could just as likely at this point see BR palyers in a garage sale in 10 years wondering what happened? What you have to do to get BR in lime light is put a friendly spin on all of this and give people a reason to adopt that format. Because the numbers for both BR and HD DVD right now are really small by comparison to the standard format DVD. And alot of people ( even with HDTVs ) are saying " Why should I switch? That DVD looks just fine " . Get it?
Was that an ad during the SuperBowl? If so, I didn't see it.
It was only in some regions, and not in HD. Pretty sad.
Yeah, yeah you'll really win supporters for your cause that way.
Its not my "cause" sonny.
Obviously, the price of players needs to come down. Several people have mentioned $200 as their pricepoint but $250 seems more realistic at this time. There also needs to be several discs included in the box. This serves as a powerful incentive for an impulse buy.
Media prices need to come down. A standard new release DVD seems to hit the street at $19.99. While it would be nice for new release BD to be at the same price, at this time that's clearly unrealistic, as unrealistic as the present price structure. It's arguable that BD should command a slight premium but anything more than $5.00 is counterproductive. Several months after release DVD prices drop, in some cases drastically. That also needs to happen with BD, either with actual pricing or through frequent BOGOs.
One of the laments about HDM is lack of titles, both in quantity and quality. It seems in the case of the latter, that studios have tended to release a disproportional amount of second and third rate horror and action titles that are eye candy for a very small segment of the market. Studios need to make up their minds whether they're committed to BD and if so they need to devote the resources needed so that there's an aggressive release of both new titles plus catalog titles.
Let's move on from the bickering and sour grapes and discuss what the BD Association, manufacturers and studios need to do to gain a wider penetration into the market.
...
One of the laments about HDM is lack of titles, both in quantity and quality. It seems in the case of the latter, that studios have tended to release a disproportional amount of second and third rate horror and action titles that are eye candy for a very small segment of the market. Studios need to make up their minds whether they're committed to BD and if so they need to devote the resources needed so that there's an aggressive release of both new titles plus catalog titles.
Yah...LOTR and other epic titles need to get released. Although we do have some...
Let's ... discuss what the BD Association, manufacturers and studios need to do to gain a wider penetration into the market. ... And please, let's leave out the twin red herrings of DVD and downloads.
I don't think it is possible to analyze the adoption rate without figuring in competing products. Or at least it would be a rather pointless exercise
My opinion is that it all comes down to price. Even a good percentage of self-anointed videophiles, like myself
Product improvements stand no chance of increasing sales. The available players already play back movies in a manner that is more than sufficient for 99% of the market. Lower prices are the only thing that will boost HDM sales.
Let's move on from the bickering and sour grapes and discuss what the BD Association, manufacturers and studios need to do to gain a wider penetration into the market. Please note, I'm not talking about the J6P market, that comes later, but instead those approximately 33% of homes who already have an HDTV. And please, let's leave out the twin red herrings of DVD and downloads.
Obviously, the price of players needs to come down. Several people have mentioned $200 as their pricepoint but $250 seems more realistic at this time. There also needs to be several discs included in the box. This serves as a powerful incentive for an impulse buy.
Media prices need to come down. A standard new release DVD seems to hit the street at $19.99. While it would be nice for new release BD to be at the same price, at this time that's clearly unrealistic, as unrealistic as the present price structure. It's arguable that BD should command a slight premium but anything more than $5.00 is counterproductive. Several months after release DVD prices drop, in some cases drastically. That also needs to happen with BD, either with actual pricing or through frequent BOGOs.
One of the laments about HDM is lack of titles, both in quantity and quality. It seems in the case of the latter, that studios have tended to release a disproportional amount of second and third rate horror and action titles that are eye candy for a very small segment of the market. Studios need to make up their minds whether they're committed to BD and if so they need to devote the resources needed so that there's an aggressive release of both new titles plus catalog titles.
Need to do three things....
1) lower the price.
2) lower the price.
3) lower the price.
and HD-DVD is already doing it with the hardware, and just need the software price to drop which is entirely in the freedom of the studios. It's hard to depend on either HDM backers to bleed further for partially subsidize software price.
I would think, the current show stoppers to move HDM market forward are the studios, and their games in taking sides or playing exclusive support is hurting the HDM market even more.
However, the caveat is gaining the interest of those HDTV owners to want HDM viewing at home, first. This is even more challenging than buying off studios for exclusive support. I'm sure free player give away promotions will help.
Need to do three things....
1) lower the price.
2) lower the price.
3) lower the price.
and HD-DVD is already doing it with the hardware, and just need the software price to drop which is entirely in the freedom of the studios. It's hard to depend on either HDM backers to bleed further for partially subsidize software price.
I would think, the current show stoppers to move HDM market forward are the studios, and their games in taking sides or playing exclusive support is hurting the HDM market even more.
However, the caveat is gaining the interest of those HDTV owners to want HDM viewing at home, first. This is even more challenging than buying off studios for exclusive support. I'm sure free player give away promotions will help.
1) New Technology is always a premium price.
2) New Technology is always a premium price.
3) New Technology is always a premium price.
HD DVD is a dead technology. They new it for the past year. Why do you think they kept lowering the prices. They were doing everything they could to stay in the game, but in the end they are still dead. Now they are just clearing inventory. Do you really think they are still making players?
Do you really think they are still making players?
Why would they spend $3 million on a super bowl ad if they were not making any more players?
Here is my question: If the companies involved were willing to spend millions buying each others loyalty, and all the studios cared about was disk sales, why didn't Toshiba just go out and spend $50 million buying up a bunch of Warner HD DVDs? This way Warner would have looked and said "Well gosh, our HD DVDs are selling more"; Neilson (sorry if I spelled that wrong) would have painted a different picture as well. With the kind of cash being thrown about, this seems to be as it would have been a better move, and it doesn't seem any more or less of an ethical thing.
Need to do three things....
1) lower the price.
2) lower the price.
3) lower the price.
That strategy didn't really help Toshiba.
Why would they spend $3 million on a super bowl ad if they were not making any more players?
It was probably paid for in full when HD-DVD was still a viable format. They really should have re-sold the slot, but maybe it was too late to arrange that?